Would there be a way to balance these merchants by having actual human NPCs hidden below the map who force-greet you every time you interact with Creeper and the Mudcrab? That way you get the full benefit of their mercantile services, but without the exploits of absent NPC skills. And to balance them further, keep all their items on the hidden NPCs, so you can't loot them should you kill either creature.
A similar sort of method was used for Vivec's character in the Symphony mod, as a way to have different versions of him inside the palace cell: one for him wearing Wraithguard, another without Wraithguard, and the vanilla Vivec creature hidden outside the map who force-greets you when talking to his replacements (thereby preserving compatibility for mods that add voices and dialogue to him).
True, but luckily the Detect system works only on a 2D plane unlike the sequels. Just gotta put the dummy NPC directly under the merchant creature so they occupy the same space on the map. Since there's no Detect Humanoid in the vanilla game and the Code Patch includes humanoids in the Detect Creature spell, it'll appear that the spell is simply detecting the creature merchants only.
Apparently the new MWSE can directly edit creature merchants without having to resort to clunky proxy NPCs. According to NullCascade:
"There's a calcBarterPrice event (https://mwse.readthedocs.io/en/latest/lua/event/calcBarterPrice.html) that you can use to provide custom logic for creature merchants."
This isn't something that anyone would really want, though. Why would you want to fix something that's not broken? If you don't want to abuse them, then just ignore them. (Or kill them.)
I wanted a happy medium between " Delete references " and "Overpowered Merchants existing for anyone to be tempted to trade with". That's the idea. I like the Easter Eggs, I just don't like the temptation. Why trade with Ra'virr when I can trade with the best merchants in the game with a simple teleport or boat ride?
SpaceDevo, no-one has used ad hominem. Try looking up what ad hominem actually is before trying to use it's use to discredit someone. At the same time, no-one who's commented in this thread other than the OP has made any mods.
ad ho·mi·nem 1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining. 2. relating to or associated with a particular person.
modder a person who modifies a piece of hardware or software
So labeling someone as "defensive" (synonyms: oversensitive, paranoid, neurotic, uptight) in an attempt to shut down legitimate discussion is NOT an insult? And installing mods to a game DOESN'T count as modding it unless you made them yourself? Okay, he's a mod USER. We done with the semantics debate?
I like the idea, but I think some of your competition in the Modding Madness had a better one for the mudcrab, namely locking his barter ability behind a tough quest. It's too bad it uses MWSE, so no OpenMW compatibility, and also too bad there's nothing similar for Creeper.
I remember that quest being riddled with bugs, the first quest of which involved about twenty Fargoths invading Seyda Neen. "Better" is most likely not the word you are looking for.
As well, having it locked behind a quest wall still means that it is an economy-breaking easter egg. You just have to solve quests to get to that point, as opposed to just finding him (Which is an endeavor in of itself, considering there are no quests to find him and he resides alone on an island in the middle of nowhere). The point is, Creature Merchants are overpowered. The point is not to make them more interesting, it is to balance them for the base game.
Take, for example, a quest to recieve the Sword of Ultimate Truth, a sword that kills anything in one hit. Even with a quest dedicated to taking that sword, it is still too overpowered to even *exist* in the game, much less be behind only a questwall. Same with Creature Merchants, as they completely ignore the Barter skill and have far more gold than any other merchant in the game.
Eh, fair enough, but honestly, I don't think my character is nearly high enough levelled to beat that quest at the moment, and yet I've already made a Fortify Mercantile spell strong enough to allow me to sell items to regular merchants for more than I can get from Creeper, so I'd say it's not really that unbalanced when all's said and done.
Buggy is kinda a given for mods released in one week requiring the script extender, but they seem to be fixing it, so that's good. Really, though, I just meant I wanted it to require a character that's probably well beyond the point of actually needing the merchant to access it.
Nice Ankalime drawing, I hadn't seen this one before and am very happy to add it to my personal screen splash screen collection. As for the mod, it might be nice to give these two unique merchants some unique but not over powerful items for sale. That could be nice to package as part of a bigger economy game play overhaul. Anyways, thanks posting it.
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A similar sort of method was used for Vivec's character in the Symphony mod, as a way to have different versions of him inside the palace cell: one for him wearing Wraithguard, another without Wraithguard, and the vanilla Vivec creature hidden outside the map who force-greets you when talking to his replacements (thereby preserving compatibility for mods that add voices and dialogue to him).
Only problem: Detect Creature/Detect Humanoid could find them, which is awkward.
"There's a calcBarterPrice event (https://mwse.readthedocs.io/en/latest/lua/event/calcBarterPrice.html) that you can use to provide custom logic for creature merchants."
Speak for yourself.
"Why would you want to fix something that's not broken?"
Because they render every other NPC merchant (and therefor the entire Mercantile skill) completely obsolete?
"If you don't want to abuse them, then just ignore them. (Or kill them.)"
If you don't like the mod, then don't use it. Also, this is much more tame than most balancing mods which simply strip their Barter ability entirely.
I wanted a happy medium between " Delete references " and "Overpowered Merchants existing for anyone to be tempted to trade with". That's the idea. I like the Easter Eggs, I just don't like the temptation. Why trade with Ra'virr when I can trade with the best merchants in the game with a simple teleport or boat ride?
1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
2. relating to or associated with a particular person.
modder
a person who modifies a piece of hardware or software
Nah, seems I used them correctly.
WWIII in the comments section, nice.
As well, having it locked behind a quest wall still means that it is an economy-breaking easter egg. You just have to solve quests to get to that point, as opposed to just finding him (Which is an endeavor in of itself, considering there are no quests to find him and he resides alone on an island in the middle of nowhere). The point is, Creature Merchants are overpowered. The point is not to make them more interesting, it is to balance them for the base game.
Take, for example, a quest to recieve the Sword of Ultimate Truth, a sword that kills anything in one hit. Even with a quest dedicated to taking that sword, it is still too overpowered to even *exist* in the game, much less be behind only a questwall. Same with Creature Merchants, as they completely ignore the Barter skill and have far more gold than any other merchant in the game.
Buggy is kinda a given for mods released in one week requiring the script extender, but they seem to be fixing it, so that's good. Really, though, I just meant I wanted it to require a character that's probably well beyond the point of actually needing the merchant to access it.