I've played this mod 3 times with different adventurer squads (2 archer squad, melee squad, and necromancer squad) and I liked it. It makes the original MM8 nicely more difficult without making it too hard. I'd like to add that the game could be made a bit more difficult by changing the spell scroll prices the same way you changed the spell book prices (you could make dark and light magic scrolls cost x4, elemental and cleric magic scrolls cost x2).
After playing the mod, I thought I'd leave a review. I replay MM6-7-8 every 2 years or so, therefore I'm not extremely knowledgeable about the game. Which means I just have the "general feel" of MM8 to compare it to.
First of all, thanks for making the mod. I think it's necessary to really enjoy MM8, whose balance was busted even when I was playing it as a kid (rush the first dragon companion, roll all over the game). I generally felt like the progression was hard, but generally balanced throughout the playthrough. I've played a lot of difficulty mods for other games where I found myself stuck, frustrated or resorting to game mechanics abuse. Therefore : good job on that part. For instance, despite restricting myself to stay with my initial party (dark elf main character, Lamentia, Arcanus, Talimere, Templar), I sometimes hesitated to get a new recruit whose level was just a little higher than one of my characters, without getting overpowered companions extremely easily. Secondly, I thought you made a lot of good choices. Removing dark magic on Arcanus was a great move, for instance. Adding some new monsters making some dungeons very difficult was very nice, too. Mad Necromancer lab was very hard with those bone dragons, and vampires were suprisingly tough to beat.
Thirdly, a little constructive (I hope) criticism. I'll leave out what your mod doesn't encompass (spell balance, for instance). - Because I had a vampire and GM ID monster, I looked at ennemy resistances a lot in the late game. It felt like a lot of mobs had extremely high resistance or immunity (dragons in the dragon lair in Garrote, for instance) to everything but physical damage. Therefore, I often found myself wondering if the mod wasn't too easy for players going for a full physical party with a cleric. - In the temple of the Sun (in Dagger Wound), you put some Will-O-Wisp to guard the Prophecies of the Sun. However, those mobs are easy to abuse, and I actually didn't understand I wasn't supposed to go there in the very early game (I completed the dungeon like in Vanilla, meaning I had the Cleric promotion right away). Maybe consider putting stronger/less abusable (door angle) enemies to deter players in the very early game ? Also, there are Will-O-Wisp spawning outside the Prophecies of the Sun maze, meaning you have to skip them (I skiped the last room of the dungeon for instance, even after getting the Prophecies and fighting every Will-O-Wisp in the maze). - I feel like the dragons are too powerful in the dragon lair, from a game progression difficulty standpoint. I did EVERY quest in the game, and I did the "kill all dragons" quest for Avalon just before getting to Regna. I understand that they're supposed to be strong lore-wise or whatever, but on the one hand you can absolutely destroy crusaders/paladins/dragonslayers with little to no issue, but you need to spend two hours frankly abusing the Berserk spell in the dragon lair to be able to kill all the dragons in dragon lair before Regna. The dragons outside the lair are fine, though. - I don't remember if I did this quest too early, but I was forced into getting the Brazier with Invisibility because I wasn't able to fight the Clerics of the Sun. - I understand the spell price balance. However, with trading, once you get town portal or Llyod Beacon, it's just a matter of time before you can afford any spell. - Some mobs aren't coherent balance-wise. For instance, the fire elementals are incredibly weak compared to earth elementals. Some mobs seem a bit too strong (etheral lords/ruby dragons), I would have prefered more mobs in rooms but less incredibly powerful ones you have to isolate. Maybe that's just a subjective issue. - Sometimes, when entering a dungeon in the late game, I was instantly surrounded by enemies. That was already the case in vanilla (Korbu's tomb for instance), but it's sometimes annoying. - I'm not sure it's something your mod encompasses, but I'll just put it in there : in vanilla, MM8 late game (once you get in the Ravenshore Crystal) was already a bit of a chore IMO. You fight enormous amounts of very spongy but boring enemies in very similar scenery. I was a bit dissapointed feeling the same way when finishing this mod.
Anyway, thanks for your work. It made an already great game much more of a challenge.
Thank you for your input, I'm glad I could contribute something to your MM8 experience!
I can certainly understand all of your points of criticism, and it's much appreciated you took the time to post them here. Let me try to clarify a few things:
If I exchanged the light elementals for something less "abusable", the last room of the dungeon would sadly become a major problem. I intended it to be easy to just dodge those and get out, or try take a few of them on. I suppose if someone has the patience to grind their way through all the light elementals that early in the game they kinda deserved the reward.
Some decisions are based on inspirations I took from the Heroes of Might and Magic games (for example dragons being highly resistant or immune to magic or gorgons giving you the "death stare"). Earth elementals being toughest certainly springs from that as well. So there's without doubt a good dose of subjectivity in my decisions, where I did what I thought was cool. I tried to balance the elementals out by giving the rest others strengths - I'll see if fire elementals can't have a bit more of that.
The difference in difficulty between killing the dragonslayers on the one hand and killing the dragons on the other is a fair point. An argument in favour of it might be that the dragons give you incredibly good loot, while the dragonslayers don't. Choose the tough route, be rewarded accordingly! I might have a new idea for this, though, let's see.
I find the "Plane between the Planes" a bit too vast with too little things to find, with it's prison dungeons being slightly uninspired. I always loved the crystal and the palace though, and I think those should be the toughest places in the game. I am afraid, some degree of "grind" is intended here. You can always skip the monsters on the plane itself, though.
5 comments
First of all, thanks for making the mod. I think it's necessary to really enjoy MM8, whose balance was busted even when I was playing it as a kid (rush the first dragon companion, roll all over the game). I generally felt like the progression was hard, but generally balanced throughout the playthrough. I've played a lot of difficulty mods for other games where I found myself stuck, frustrated or resorting to game mechanics abuse. Therefore : good job on that part. For instance, despite restricting myself to stay with my initial party (dark elf main character, Lamentia, Arcanus, Talimere, Templar), I sometimes hesitated to get a new recruit whose level was just a little higher than one of my characters, without getting overpowered companions extremely easily.
Secondly, I thought you made a lot of good choices. Removing dark magic on Arcanus was a great move, for instance. Adding some new monsters making some dungeons very difficult was very nice, too. Mad Necromancer lab was very hard with those bone dragons, and vampires were suprisingly tough to beat.
Thirdly, a little constructive (I hope) criticism. I'll leave out what your mod doesn't encompass (spell balance, for instance).
- Because I had a vampire and GM ID monster, I looked at ennemy resistances a lot in the late game. It felt like a lot of mobs had extremely high resistance or immunity (dragons in the dragon lair in Garrote, for instance) to everything but physical damage. Therefore, I often found myself wondering if the mod wasn't too easy for players going for a full physical party with a cleric.
- In the temple of the Sun (in Dagger Wound), you put some Will-O-Wisp to guard the Prophecies of the Sun. However, those mobs are easy to abuse, and I actually didn't understand I wasn't supposed to go there in the very early game (I completed the dungeon like in Vanilla, meaning I had the Cleric promotion right away). Maybe consider putting stronger/less abusable (door angle) enemies to deter players in the very early game ? Also, there are Will-O-Wisp spawning outside the Prophecies of the Sun maze, meaning you have to skip them (I skiped the last room of the dungeon for instance, even after getting the Prophecies and fighting every Will-O-Wisp in the maze).
- I feel like the dragons are too powerful in the dragon lair, from a game progression difficulty standpoint. I did EVERY quest in the game, and I did the "kill all dragons" quest for Avalon just before getting to Regna. I understand that they're supposed to be strong lore-wise or whatever, but on the one hand you can absolutely destroy crusaders/paladins/dragonslayers with little to no issue, but you need to spend two hours frankly abusing the Berserk spell in the dragon lair to be able to kill all the dragons in dragon lair before Regna. The dragons outside the lair are fine, though.
- I don't remember if I did this quest too early, but I was forced into getting the Brazier with Invisibility because I wasn't able to fight the Clerics of the Sun.
- I understand the spell price balance. However, with trading, once you get town portal or Llyod Beacon, it's just a matter of time before you can afford any spell.
- Some mobs aren't coherent balance-wise. For instance, the fire elementals are incredibly weak compared to earth elementals. Some mobs seem a bit too strong (etheral lords/ruby dragons), I would have prefered more mobs in rooms but less incredibly powerful ones you have to isolate. Maybe that's just a subjective issue.
- Sometimes, when entering a dungeon in the late game, I was instantly surrounded by enemies. That was already the case in vanilla (Korbu's tomb for instance), but it's sometimes annoying.
- I'm not sure it's something your mod encompasses, but I'll just put it in there : in vanilla, MM8 late game (once you get in the Ravenshore Crystal) was already a bit of a chore IMO. You fight enormous amounts of very spongy but boring enemies in very similar scenery. I was a bit dissapointed feeling the same way when finishing this mod.
Anyway, thanks for your work. It made an already great game much more of a challenge.
I can certainly understand all of your points of criticism, and it's much appreciated you took the time to post them here. Let me try to clarify a few things:
If I exchanged the light elementals for something less "abusable", the last room of the dungeon would sadly become a major problem. I intended it to be easy to just dodge those and get out, or try take a few of them on. I suppose if someone has the patience to grind their way through all the light elementals that early in the game they kinda deserved the reward.
Some decisions are based on inspirations I took from the Heroes of Might and Magic games (for example dragons being highly resistant or immune to magic or gorgons giving you the "death stare"). Earth elementals being toughest certainly springs from that as well. So there's without doubt a good dose of subjectivity in my decisions, where I did what I thought was cool. I tried to balance the elementals out by giving the rest others strengths - I'll see if fire elementals can't have a bit more of that.
The difference in difficulty between killing the dragonslayers on the one hand and killing the dragons on the other is a fair point. An argument in favour of it might be that the dragons give you incredibly good loot, while the dragonslayers don't. Choose the tough route, be rewarded accordingly! I might have a new idea for this, though, let's see.
I find the "Plane between the Planes" a bit too vast with too little things to find, with it's prison dungeons being slightly uninspired. I always loved the crystal and the palace though, and I think those should be the toughest places in the game. I am afraid, some degree of "grind" is intended here. You can always skip the monsters on the plane itself, though.
However, I was considering making a version for the Merge in the future..