First of all, thank you for making all the great mods that you did, especially Altered Assassin and Early recruitment.
I'm wondering about this mod though, I know you said that there are no plans to expand it but what about Kirrahe? He sacrifices himself instead of Thane if Thane is dead. The lines about Kirrahe and Thane would be inherently mutually exclusive as to not drag the scene out and while Kirrahe did not serve on the Normandy, Liara would know him from Virmire. Have you considered adding a Kirrahe mention if he died and if so, why did you decide not to add it?
i didn't consider adding kirrahe no. i don't think liara ever says kirrahe so it would be tricky to do. making a whole extra branch of the conversation to make a unique set of references to kirrahe would be very difficult. i am not sure i could do it with the dialogue available. i also don't think that i could make a branch of the conversation that wouldn't feel tonally mismatched.
certainly if i reused most of what i had already, i think it would be a little silly. i'm not trying to dismiss kirrahe, or judge anyone's personal opinions on the subject. but for me, having shepard speak about kirrahe with the vulnerable sadness of this scene would feel overwrought and emotionally mismatched. kirrahe is a respected colleague for sure. but not someone with whom shepard has a connection on the level of a crewmate.
just wanted to thank you for this mod, it works seamlessly and fits perfectly into the game, if i didn't know any better i would have just assumed it was part of the vanilla game and not a mod. i romance thane and its very frustrating each playthrough to have nobody mention his death at all, so this mod made me very happy
you're welcome and i'm so glad it added something to your game! i also really like thane's romance arc and yeah, getting to add a little more in for that was something i was very happy to be able to do.
Alright here's the separate new post. I'm not using either mod of Thane living (I call both mods that, apologies. Thane Can Live and Thane Lives, may have had an incompatible in the prior messed game save) this time, and checking save editor he's definitely marked dead... So, not even sure why he was showing up alive in the Hospital. Not talking to him or going to visit him in hospital after the Coup, because he isn't supposed to be alive for this run anyways.
Here's my current game's setup https://me3tweaks.com/modmanager/logservice/logviewer?logid=9409259c3342c3547cf1296e735fd4e0 mind, do have AHEM but marked it disabled at the moment.
i'm eager to help with issues as and when i can, but i'm gonna be honest, i'm confused by your explanation of what's going on.
you say that you've restarted a new game with a new save but it's not clear whether it's importing the same LE2 save or not. you have said that thane is showing up in the hospital when he should be dead? was this also true on your first playthrough? that seems like a pretty big thing to leave out. like, that's pretty directly relevant and suggests there's an issue with your game or save that has nothing to do with this mod (which flat out cannot impact whether thane shows up in the hospital).
you say you have checked your save file and it's showing thane as dead. you didn't include this save with the log/diag so i can't check it myself, unfortunately, but there is more than one flag for thane to be marked as dead so unless you provide a save or give me exact bool numbers, i can't take that as a guarantee as to whether your save file is correct or not.
as of 1.3 (which it looks like you have installed), thane should only be mentioned if he (1) was spoken to at least once in the hospital and (2) died during the coup. if you didn't speak to him then the line about his death shouldn't trigger, so should fix the problem even if you do have some bugged behaviour re: thane being in the hospital.
but to be honest i'm not sure you are still experiencing this issue. sometimes people show up late with a log just cus i asked for one and you don't actually say you still have an issue, or whether you've reached the coup yet.
if you do still have this problem, using 1.3, then provide a save after the coup but before the conversation with liara, i will check the plot flags and see if i can replicate your issue.
Last save I used an incompatible mod with this, my bad - however, new save game - straight from Importing ME2 again to avoid potential issues, and made sure I wasn't using any Thane mods this time. Visiting Ash in hospital, Thane was just right there. Though memorial wall also lists him dead. Need to get to the Coup and see if Liara still mentions Thane dying when it was Kirrahe, thunderstorm with hail however has been knocking out power a lot today so haven't been able to really play LE3 further to get to coup moment. I'll take the chance I have at the moment however to check if flags are misflagged on my savegame.
okay so these are two unrelated issues to do with thane.
the issue with my mod was that i had not accounted for the scenario where thane is alive, but never spoken to, and then dies off screen. not a bug, per se, just poor design on my part when planning the conversation. this is now fixed in 1.3. if you get to this conversation and end up with lines from thane, even though you never spoke to him, please provide a save so i can look into it. but it should be fine now.
the other issue is...whatever reason your game thinks thane is both alive and dead. i have no idea on that one. it could be an issue with your imported save. it could be an issue with a mod you have installed that edits the hospital area. it could be something else entirely. but it's definitely not this mod. this mod edits a single conversation and doesn't make any adjustments to any plot flags related to thane or his death or his presence. it just reads your existing save file and directs the conversation accordingly.
Will report once I hit the post-coup in this game, I try to keep the mods I use as up to date as possible. In the meantime maybe, know which flags are supposed to be set in either or both games to mark Thane dead for ME3? (LE3) so he's not magically alive also?
According to save editor on LE3 savefile I haven't done a lot of LE2 stuff I have actually done?
i would not be confident of giving you that information without actually looking at your save file and cross-referencing with the asset database in LEX and i don't want to turn the comment thread for this mod into an extended conversation about an unrelated tech support issue.
however, if it looks like other things are missing (and again - i am not confident this is the case unless i look at your save and have examples), it would suggest that perhaps your issue is with the save file you are importing into LE3.
if you want further help with that i'd suggest maybe asking on the discord with some specific examples of things you did that aren't in your save.
No worries, mainly just running mod test run/s with the main set at the moment so not too concerned about my wonky games. Will report once past Coup regarding Liara mentioning the dead here on whether she mentions Thane or not, but happy to have helped indicated an other issue with this mod and Thane not spoken to both times before and after the coup. Gotta get through Sur'kesh first (would've been done sooner but bad tornado-based-almost thunderstorm the other day), and Tuchanka. Should be soon enough though!
With Scottina's new Thane Lives mod, would this mod take into account that Thane didn't die on the Citadel since that's a possible vanilla situation if you don't speak to him in Huerta? Or would it act as if Thane died anyway since nobody dies in that mod's version of the Citadel Coup?
yes, it's the same situation as the compatibility information for the Thane Can Live mod that's already listed (and which I'll update). the conversation references Thane if you witnessed his death in the hospital. If not (and if the VS didn't die either), Shepard won't comment on the situation repeating and Liara won't comment on Thane. The scene will be much shorter, but it will still work and Liara will still talk about the Virmire Casualty and researching Kai Leng.
I see your reply here @beccatoria says Liara shouldn't mention Thane, yet she did in my game even though it was Kirrahe that got killed by Leng, and I never talked to Thane before or after in the hospital. Disabled the Thane living mod, but it didn't fix Thane being alive when actually dead.
you need to provide a log and diag with a save if you want me to investigate this. you aren't clear on which thane lives mod you're using and the newer one was released since this came out and i'm unsure what bools it sets. removing the mod doesn't revert your save. but again without actual information and a save i can't provide a solid answer.
all right, bhaalbal, i've looked through this and i'm fairly sure this is vanilla behaviour and thane is, in fact, dead in your game as intended because you didn't bother speaking to him. i don't know what mod you're using because there are two mods to make thane survive and neither of them is called "thane living". i've seen you around the modding discord server, i know you have been asked several times to provide logs/diags, please, please do this in future it makes this whole process significantly easier and less stressful.
anyway, my guess, is that you're using "thane can live" because that leaves the original vanilla logic that - if you don't ever bother speaking to thane - he's marked as dead after the coup anyway. you don't get the hospital goodbye scene, but essentially he just dies during the attack.
since you say you didn't bother speaking to thane at all, my guess is that you're using the mod that requires you to at least try to speak to him in order to save him. you didn't so he is, in fact, dead. and that this was intended by the thane mod you are using.
that said, shepard being cut up about a character s/he didn't bother to speak to doesn't make brilliant sense. i'll see if i can implement an additional check to make sure that the character in question actually spoke to thane at least once.
Apologies Becca for lack of log, my save file then got messed so I just ignored it. In game, and Nexus isn't always alerting me of replies when it usually does.
Making a new comment post on here for a separate game savefile run.
i assume so as they don't share files. but i haven't specifically tested it.
if i don't note a mod in the compatibility section then as far as i know there's no issue. i can't note every mod that's fine, there are thousands of them. so the compatibility section is usually just where there's some specific reason to mention it - like a patch is needed, they aren't compatible, or they share files but it's all okay. that kind of thing.
Sorry, I confused Reworked Kai Leng with Shut Up Leng. I had originally said that Reworked Kai Leng removed as much of him as possible from the game but no, that's the latter.
shut up leng doesn't remove his existence from the game it just stops him talking.
he still exists, he's still called kai leng. shut up leng doesn't appear to edit the dialogue file where shepard and anderson have the post-coup debrief and anderson names him as kai leng. so i assume that anderson indeed still tells shepard the assassin is called kai leng. so i'm still not sure what conflict you think there is, but i think you may be mistaken.
but if i'm wrong and shut up leng does somehow erase his name from existence then no, i'm not going to edit the conversation to remove liara talking about him. i'd have to construct some other way to end the conversation for which no lines exist. particularly given the way the tools work and the difficulty of working with audio and splicing lines that would be a disproportionate amount of effort for an edge case scenario.
No, no, that wasn't what I was wanting, I'm sorry if that's how it came off! I didn't know if the mod would work if Reworked Kai Leng/Shut Up Leng were installed as well. I'm terrible at explaining myself...
you don't need to apologise - i'll be clear when i'm not gonna do stuff, but i don't mind the question.
i was just confused as to why you were concerned they wouldn't work together when they don't really have anything to do with each other is all.
basically i don't use either of those mods but unless something unusual is going on, they shouldn't conflict with each other at all and i don't think would create a nonsensical story either. my assumption is you're fine to use them.
it's been a problem with a bunch of files on nexus lately. i've gotten it on a couple of other mass effect mods. it's a false positive but there's nothing i can do from this end. the only suggestion i have is to temporarily disable your antivirus so you can download it, or go in and flag it as an allowed threat.
Thanks for the mod! For a Liara fan such as me, every little bit of convo with her is much appreciated, and without this mod that particular scene is definitely too rare (in my playthroughs, at least).
If you'd be interested in updating polish .tlk file, I made some corrections and fixes. Link to the file here.
Thanks for including my updated translation. TBH I myself play MELE with english audio and subs, but I thought mod deserves a proper polish text (especially that there's not much of it, so it wasn't too tiresome to translate :D ).
If you play with English audio and subtitles in another language, this is supported, but please note that translation is currently automated and likely contains errors. If you can submit a more accurate translation, I would be grateful to receive and integrate this into the mod.
But what if i'm not playing in english at all ? (FR/FR) Does the game crashes ? Will it be silent whit subtitles ? Or maybe the english audio still plays ? Anyway, thanks a lot for the work you and other modders do, it's a real pleasure to get back to Mass Effect every year and see what's new from the community :)
it just won't work at all. the conversation is entirely in the english conversation file. i think the entire mod would just get ignored, but it might cause other bugs. it's not a good idea to do it. i am sorry the mod doesn't support other languages, but it's just not possible when splicing lines like this. i often can't get spliced lines to work properly for male and female shepard because the actors' deliveries are so different. doing that for 10 different actors (5 languages, 2 shepards in each) when i don't speak 4 of those languages is just not possible for me.
I think if you change the file name from LOC_INT to LOC_FRA it will probably play for you, with english audio for the conversation. but please understand that i have not tested this, i don't know fully what problems it could cause and won't support bugs it creates, and it will make all the other conversations in the file also play in english for you (a bunch of the ambient conversations on the normandy at around that point in the game). it would be a messy, messy solution.
69 comments
First of all, thank you for making all the great mods that you did, especially Altered Assassin and Early recruitment.
I'm wondering about this mod though, I know you said that there are no plans to expand it but what about Kirrahe? He sacrifices himself instead of Thane if Thane is dead. The lines about Kirrahe and Thane would be inherently mutually exclusive as to not drag the scene out and while Kirrahe did not serve on the Normandy, Liara would know him from Virmire. Have you considered adding a Kirrahe mention if he died and if so, why did you decide not to add it?
Once again, thanks for great mods.
i didn't consider adding kirrahe no. i don't think liara ever says kirrahe so it would be tricky to do. making a whole extra branch of the conversation to make a unique set of references to kirrahe would be very difficult. i am not sure i could do it with the dialogue available. i also don't think that i could make a branch of the conversation that wouldn't feel tonally mismatched.
certainly if i reused most of what i had already, i think it would be a little silly. i'm not trying to dismiss kirrahe, or judge anyone's personal opinions on the subject. but for me, having shepard speak about kirrahe with the vulnerable sadness of this scene would feel overwrought and emotionally mismatched. kirrahe is a respected colleague for sure. but not someone with whom shepard has a connection on the level of a crewmate.
Thanks for reply.
Here's my current game's setup https://me3tweaks.com/modmanager/logservice/logviewer?logid=9409259c3342c3547cf1296e735fd4e0
mind, do have AHEM but marked it disabled at the moment.
you say that you've restarted a new game with a new save but it's not clear whether it's importing the same LE2 save or not. you have said that thane is showing up in the hospital when he should be dead? was this also true on your first playthrough? that seems like a pretty big thing to leave out. like, that's pretty directly relevant and suggests there's an issue with your game or save that has nothing to do with this mod (which flat out cannot impact whether thane shows up in the hospital).
you say you have checked your save file and it's showing thane as dead. you didn't include this save with the log/diag so i can't check it myself, unfortunately, but there is more than one flag for thane to be marked as dead so unless you provide a save or give me exact bool numbers, i can't take that as a guarantee as to whether your save file is correct or not.
as of 1.3 (which it looks like you have installed), thane should only be mentioned if he (1) was spoken to at least once in the hospital and (2) died during the coup. if you didn't speak to him then the line about his death shouldn't trigger, so should fix the problem even if you do have some bugged behaviour re: thane being in the hospital.
but to be honest i'm not sure you are still experiencing this issue. sometimes people show up late with a log just cus i asked for one and you don't actually say you still have an issue, or whether you've reached the coup yet.
if you do still have this problem, using 1.3, then provide a save after the coup but before the conversation with liara, i will check the plot flags and see if i can replicate your issue.
the issue with my mod was that i had not accounted for the scenario where thane is alive, but never spoken to, and then dies off screen. not a bug, per se, just poor design on my part when planning the conversation. this is now fixed in 1.3. if you get to this conversation and end up with lines from thane, even though you never spoke to him, please provide a save so i can look into it. but it should be fine now.
the other issue is...whatever reason your game thinks thane is both alive and dead. i have no idea on that one. it could be an issue with your imported save. it could be an issue with a mod you have installed that edits the hospital area. it could be something else entirely. but it's definitely not this mod. this mod edits a single conversation and doesn't make any adjustments to any plot flags related to thane or his death or his presence. it just reads your existing save file and directs the conversation accordingly.
According to save editor on LE3 savefile I haven't done a lot of LE2 stuff I have actually done?
however, if it looks like other things are missing (and again - i am not confident this is the case unless i look at your save and have examples), it would suggest that perhaps your issue is with the save file you are importing into LE3.
if you want further help with that i'd suggest maybe asking on the discord with some specific examples of things you did that aren't in your save.
Gotta get through Sur'kesh first (would've been done sooner but bad tornado-based-almost thunderstorm the other day), and Tuchanka. Should be soon enough though!
anyway, my guess, is that you're using "thane can live" because that leaves the original vanilla logic that - if you don't ever bother speaking to thane - he's marked as dead after the coup anyway. you don't get the hospital goodbye scene, but essentially he just dies during the attack.
since you say you didn't bother speaking to thane at all, my guess is that you're using the mod that requires you to at least try to speak to him in order to save him. you didn't so he is, in fact, dead. and that this was intended by the thane mod you are using.
that said, shepard being cut up about a character s/he didn't bother to speak to doesn't make brilliant sense. i'll see if i can implement an additional check to make sure that the character in question actually spoke to thane at least once.
Making a new comment post on here for a separate game savefile run.
if i don't note a mod in the compatibility section then as far as i know there's no issue. i can't note every mod that's fine, there are thousands of them. so the compatibility section is usually just where there's some specific reason to mention it - like a patch is needed, they aren't compatible, or they share files but it's all okay. that kind of thing.
he still exists, he's still called kai leng. shut up leng doesn't appear to edit the dialogue file where shepard and anderson have the post-coup debrief and anderson names him as kai leng. so i assume that anderson indeed still tells shepard the assassin is called kai leng. so i'm still not sure what conflict you think there is, but i think you may be mistaken.
but if i'm wrong and shut up leng does somehow erase his name from existence then no, i'm not going to edit the conversation to remove liara talking about him. i'd have to construct some other way to end the conversation for which no lines exist. particularly given the way the tools work and the difficulty of working with audio and splicing lines that would be a disproportionate amount of effort for an edge case scenario.
i was just confused as to why you were concerned they wouldn't work together when they don't really have anything to do with each other is all.
basically i don't use either of those mods but unless something unusual is going on, they shouldn't conflict with each other at all and i don't think would create a nonsensical story either. my assumption is you're fine to use them.
If you'd be interested in updating polish .tlk file, I made some corrections and fixes. Link to the file here.
But what if i'm not playing in english at all ? (FR/FR) Does the game crashes ? Will it be silent whit subtitles ? Or maybe the english audio still plays ?
Anyway, thanks a lot for the work you and other modders do, it's a real pleasure to get back to Mass Effect every year and see what's new from the community :)
I think if you change the file name from LOC_INT to LOC_FRA it will probably play for you, with english audio for the conversation. but please understand that i have not tested this, i don't know fully what problems it could cause and won't support bugs it creates, and it will make all the other conversations in the file also play in english for you (a bunch of the ambient conversations on the normandy at around that point in the game). it would be a messy, messy solution.