Did a quick look in the files and it looks like you included 3 base-game .tbl files. You shouldn't ever have to add those to a mod. Only time you would need a .tbl is if you didn't create a PTF and replaced the entire vanilla xml file, in which case it would have to be an empty .tbl file matching the vanilla one, which would replace it and tell the game to load your xml instead.
I spent a significant amount of time on this and could never get it working. From what i understand you're talking about creating the mod-specific table files that only replace the edited lines instead of overwriting the whole file (I know this mod overwrites the entire files which is the cause of several of its compatibility issues).
Any tips or a guide you can recommend to creating the files in a way that only edits the items affected by the mod? Appreciate your help.
Sorry to ask this as you have done really good explanations with your detailed info. This is what every modder should always do. But could you also release list of like every items numerical changes so I could compare it to vanilla stats?
Also when you state that maximum achivable armor ratings are lower. Do you mean more like using exploit style ways or actual normal usage? As honestly plate armour should protect more than it does with vanilla stats.
Honestly I think that its appropriate for Cuman gear to have lower charisma than other similiar items of their level. As that stats potrays how much your armour impresses local people. With how story of game goes majority of folk react negatively or with fear to Cumans. So gear should have lower charisma.
Would you consider version without stat requirements. I understand what you are going for here but because of game engine limitations. As if I understood correctly its just cometic thing and actually does not do anything. Would prefer less clutter in menus. Also because we cant be 100% sure if it does something for under the hood for lets say example NPCs wearing armor as their stats arent balanced for these gear requirements.
Hey Aleksey, thanks for your thoughtful questions. Let me go through them one by one:
- could you also release list of like every items numerical changes so I could compare it to vanilla stats? Unfortunately it's not possible to do this as the way I changed it was by changing every single item individually and overwriting its stats. If it was a database I could send you some kind of before and after changelog (e.g. in Gitlab) but I just used a text editor. The articles/patch notes and the description covers all items that had "meaningful" changes though so you should be able to identify most of them.
- Also when you state that maximum achivable armor ratings are lower Basically this is because the outer cloth layer (Jupons) got nerfed. Jupons had the same defensive benefit at half the weight of gambesons which didn't seem correct to me. So now Jupons offer lower defence at same weight. Chain and plate have generally had their maximum defence levels unchanged (with 1 or 2 exceptions - Heavy Hauberk and Chain Leggings). So maximum defence for "everything" except Jupon is the same. Jupon has roughly halved, so your total defence will be about 3-4 points lower. HOWEVER, if you use some of the items I buffed like heavy hauberk and chain legs, total defence might end up roughly the same (at higher weight requirement). I haven't got into a lot of detail of this in the description because the change is so small and won't noticeably affect anyone unless they rely heavily on Jupons.
- Honestly I think that its appropriate for Cuman gear to have lower charisma than other similiar items of their level I agree, and it also makes sense because Cumans are foreign and their outfits would not be respected in Bohemia at this time. However, I think their items look much too nice to have 1 or 2 charisma (worse than the ugliest peasant shirt). So I struck a middle ground where you can get 6 or 7 charisma which is still not "noble" level, but useful enough that someone could wear a cuman item without completing giving up on their charisma.
- Would you consider version without stat requirements. I would consider it. This is a really interesting idea and I think you raise a good point. I personally prefer the stat requirements because I think you find gear far too soon in the game (especially if you do any of the treasure maps, or if you're on your second playthrough and know where things are). So I like the red number to cause gear acquisition to be delayed. But I agree it is kinda pointless and could just be removed. It's unlikely to change at this point as my focus is elsewhere, but I do think it's a solid point - thanks a lot.
Thanks a lot for your thoughtful questions and feedback, and I hope you're enjoying the mod.
I am doing my own modding similiar type balance stuff. But I cant understand how conspicuousness="x" and visibility="x" work in code to establish actual values of items in equippable_item.xml?there clearly is some kind of formula but I haven been able to find it or crack it. Do you know it as you have changed those values?
I think I’ve managed to figure out how item Conspicuousness works in the UI. The formula seems to be: UI ≈ 49.80 + (50.63 × conspicuousness) − (0.78 × visibility)
This formula consistently produces results with less than 1 point of error, typically within a few decimal places. Once rounded, the predicted values always match the in-game UI numbers exactly.
OK so it's like this. Conspic is out of 100. The decimal in the code is simply the fraction of this, i.e. 46 conspic = 0.46 in code. There is no addition or multiplication between that number and what you see on the item screen in game. That number IS the conspic number in game.
Each item provides a percentage of coverage. I don't remember what this is - but it's something like torso (cuirass) accounts for 50% of coverage, trousers are 10%, gloves are 5%, etc added up to 100.
50 is the baseline - someone with 50 conspic (0.50 in the code) is neither more nor less visible than normal. So an item with 0.46 conspic, will be slightly less visible than average.
This conspic is then multiplied by the coverage amount that the item provides. So if gloves provide 0.46 conspic and they account for 5% of the wearer's total, then the effect will be minimal. So for example, if you are just wearing gloves and nothing else, your characters total conspic (different from item conspic) will still probably be 50 because the gloves don't really make any difference on their own.
Try that and let me know how you go :) I hope that helps with your question. Feel free to DM as well.
Interesting notions thank you. You are 100% right about how total value of characters conspicuousness works. But I noticed for invidual items in code conspicuousness="0.37"="X" does not translate into value of conspicuousness directly. I got this formula from taking code of 20 items of different conspic ranges and using their code to find how to calculate code into actual UI number show ingame. I tested it and this formula always gives same conspic value as ingame item has when you put parameters from code into it.
Example this code for Blue Hood from equippable_item.xml: <row charisma="5" conspicuousness="0.37" item_id="4a5b1f83-07dc-3530-3831-e110aed5ffb7" rpg_buff_weight="0" social_class_id="1" visibility="0.44" wealth_level="0" />
Formula calculates its right ingame Conspic 69 and Visibility 72 it works for every item I have tested +40 items. With this you can get exact conspic and visibility numbers done in equippable_item.xml.
In reverse it is: Conspicuousness UI: 68 = 49.80 + 50.63 × c − 0.78 × v
Visibility UI: 72 = 49.80 + 50.63 × v − 0.78 × c
It is little complicated but you can basicly automate calculation with program, spreadsheet or AI to do it fast and easy. But yeah this always gives right values for items.
Thank you for having this conversation. I you could spare me one more question. What is your opinnion of Blunt damage. Is it included also for stabbing attacks? For swings it ofc is taken into account slash+blunt. But I am wondering if its counted for stabs also? Because if it is counted for stabs. Then basicly you should always just stab with blunt weapons that have good stab damage like warhammers with spike. Havent been able to find out fact about it yet.
OHHHHHH yeah you're right I forgot. It's not a complicated mathematical formula, it's a MULTIPLIER.
Every item has "base" 50 conspic/vis (not shown) which is the normal level of visibility. The number then multiplies this. So if an item shows 0.38 conspic in the file, it has 50 x (1 + 0.38) = 69 conspic. This is why all conspic/vis values can be either positive or negative (look up some stealth items like tarred jacket or dark gambeson - they'll have a minus because they reduce conspic).
So all vis/conspic numbers exist on a scale between -1.00 and 1.00. These are multipliers. So an item with 0.90 conspic will have 95 conspic in-game (50 * 1.9).
I don't know the answer to your question about stab damage unfortunately, I asked a few variants of that question myself 9-12 months ago. Let me know if you find it out though. (because i tweaked the tusk sword to also do blunt damage).
Will post what I sent you in DMs for everyone's benefit:
The mods will definitely conflict, but if you prefer the Better Combat and Immersion, it's best to load that last, after MoreSensible. Depending on how they have set up the file structure, it will either overwrite MoreSensible completely, or just overwrite the changes that conflict (so you'll get parts of MoreSensible as well as the full BCI experience).
TLDR: Whichever mod you prefer, load that last, as its changes will overwrite earlier mods. So if you have some mod that changes e.g. animations and items, but you want the MoreSensible item changes, load MoreSensible last (as it doesnt change animations, but its item changes will overwrite), or vice versa.
That's a really good question. Polearms Unleashed doesn't touch the same files and they've implemented their damage changes in a custom pak so it should (should - I haven't installed it to check) hopefully only affect polearms without overwriting other weapons.
Try loading it after MoreSensible. This should keep all of the MS item changes, but incorporate the Polearms Unleashed polearm damage rebalance. (basically PU polearm damage will overwrite the MS polearm damage tweaks).
If that doesn't work, you can try loading it before MS, but that will cause MS polearm damage to overwrite PU which I don't think would be what you want. However if PU overwrites all changes (i.e. you get no effect from MS at all) then you might have to load PU first. Either way, you should be able to enjoy the animations of PU as MoreSensible doesn't touch these. Report back and let us know how it goes?
Raven's beak not only has the wrong icon, but also the wrong model with this mod. Same issue with spiked war-hammer. I think in your attempt to change the icon you changed the model. Can easily be verified by booting the game and looking at Raven's Beak and spiked war-hammer with and without mod active. Yes only this mod solo was used to verify. Both version of your mod have this error.
Edit: just confirmed it in the files - in "pickable_item__MoreSensible.xml" if you switch the model for Raven's Beak to "weapons/war_hammers/warhammer_04.cgf" and for the spiked war-hammer to "weapons/war_hammers/warhammer_02.cgf" this fixes the issue and reverts it back to the correct state. Unfortunately I don't know how to swap the icons, but hopefully this will help you fix it.
Also this mod fixes the icons if you just want to take a look at how they fixed it for reference: https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/1693?tab=description
thanks mate, appreciate the help. it is a known issue but i didn't know there was a mod that fixes the icons, which indeed should help me troubleshoot. I get a lot of comments on this one (I guess people really like raven's beak!) and I will do my best to fix it in the near future.
I've been using No Stolen Items Tag. I'm starting a new run and wanted to clarify that if I use your 'MoreSensible alternate - No Stolen Tags' version then I don't need 'No stolen Item tags' at all. I've briefly looked at both pickable_Items.xmls and other than a few notes you made they are the same, correct? Thx
Yep that's right. You can use MoreSensible alternate which combines More Sensible and No Stolen Items. It's exactly the same as the base MoreSensible mod, just with no stolen item tags.
Longer explanation: If you install the no stolen item tags mod it will clash with moresensible because they edit the same items. Hence the creation of "MoreSensible alternate" for players that want both. Let me know if you need any more help with it - I hope you enjoy it!
Yeah, seems to work as intended. Did not install No Stolen Items Tag but used your 'MoreSensible alternate' and am getting no stolen tags from my thievery. Thx.
(Unfortunately, due to how the game handles stat requirements, armor strength requirements are a cosmetic change only).
Oh so dosen't stop you wearing armor? I was so excited when i sae this in armor.xml. I was planning to do mod, which just add str requirement. How i can also see what is light armor?
yeah it doesnt stop you wearing armor. It shows a red strength requirement in the armor info screen in the game, but you can still equip it.
You can also equip weapons you don't meet the requirements for, but those weapons will show a warning, swing slower and do a lot less damage. Afaict there's no equivalent effect for wearing armor you're not strong enough for.
All light armor is determined by its armor type which also controls the sound it makes. I forget the exact line of code, but open up the file with the armor values in it and ctrl + f "plate". Anything with type set to plate is automatically heavy armor, which also governs the sound it plays. A bit more info here: v1.1 comprehensive light armor rework at Kingdom Come: Deliverance Nexus - Mods and community
All gloves/gauntlets lost -1 defence point. With 11 defence, these were too strong relative to armguards (10-20) given how little of the arm they cover. This has been offset by granting +1 defence to all full-arm armpieces. (For arm armour, the overall result is that the lows are lower, and the highs are higher, with a wider range of choices in between).
Not sure about this one. Gauntlets cover less of the arm, but they cover the part of the arm that is by far the most likely to be hit by an attack in combat. I mean, in the game that isn't really represented well, you can't aim for hands, but in real life hands are the most vulnerable. They're the part closest to the opponent, sticking out from the rest of your body, and they're the part closest to your weapon, which is what your opponent's weapon spends a lot of time in contact with.
In HEMA, the gloves/gauntlets are typically heavier than the rest of the armor. There isn't generally a need for a lot of heavy armor, since the weapons are dull. But you get hit on the hands so often that even with a dull blade, the chances of eventually suffering a debilitating injury are high. So a lot of people train with plastic gauntlets but the rest of the body is mainly covered in padded fabric, just because your hands get hit a lot in the course of fighting.
Otherwise, this change list is amazing, and it's a minor nitpick anyway. Great work!
Edit: What's the reason for changing these to light armor? Seems like this adds some tension if you're using the perk that gives charisma for plate armor in sunny weather, and the rest of the matching set counts as plate.
Hey man, thanks for your thoughts. I thought pretty carefully about the gauntlet change and I agree with your comments. My rationale was thus:
arm defence in KCD relies on a flat number
hand and wrist are correctly very important which is why small gloves give large defence values; also the design of gauntlets would likely cover part of the arm (in the same way a kettle brim covers part of the face by deflecting strikes; fat gauntlets would also deflect blows from the wrist/forearm)
therefore gauntlets deserve a high defence value (which they have)
however, the gauntlet provides 33% of arm defence (11/33) for 27% of the weight plus there is also the weirdness of "I'm wearing gauntlets but my arm is completely naked therefore I'm pretty safe from arm strikes" which is weird from a gameplay perspective
overall this leads to "not sensible" behaviour in these circumstances.
as a result the gauntlets were adjusted downwards; now they provide ~30% of total arm defence for 27% of weight. While people are free to have different views, ironically I think this is one of the better changes I've made in the whole list.
Why change polish and meissen pauldrons to light armor?
there's a shortage of light armor pauldrons in vanilla
in vanilla there was ~no advantage to taking "half plate" gear other than saving maybe 1 unit of weight
polish and meissen pauldrons have fewer plates than other pauldrons
it seems unlikely to me that a shoulder plate and a bicep plate alone would be enough to meaningfully slow someone's dodge (remembering that light armor perk is specifically about the ability to dodge, not about whether the armor itself is "light")
the sunshine perk is an unfortunate casualty (I haven't actually checked the specific requirements but I believe you), however, there are still like 10 other plate pauldrons to choose from.
I hope that helps, and thanks a lot for your thoughtful comments. I hope you enjoy the mod.
Thanks for the response. I guess the unfortunate source of many problems is that an item can't be both light and plate. I really hope they fixed that in KCD2. As for arm defense, I see your point. The weight did not occur to me.
it seems unlikely to me that a shoulder plate and a bicep plate alone would be enough to meaningfully slow someone's dodge (remembering that light armor perk is specifically about the ability to dodge, not about whether the armor itself is "light")
The ability to dodge (as presented in the game) is affected only by the strength and freedom of movement of the legs. As well as the total weight of the upper body. I don't think that a kettle hat with a larger brims will affect the balance so much.. unlike, for example, a shield or Chainmail greaves (which for some reason are light armor in this mod).
Generally, dodging in this game is not a particularly unbalanced way of self-defense. Therefore, it may not be necessary to limit the "light armor" perk so much. ( Come on, these kettle hats with a larger brims are depicted even on the perk itself,)
Yeah I agree it is not perfect. Like you say, the really frustrating thing is that they've assigned it to a type of metal ("plate") rather than a specific item or weight. The dark souls 30%/60% weight break points would have been perfect.
I've made some notes to have a look at this if i make another pass.
Why is Italian Bascinet a lot heavier than other bascinet even though half of it are mail while other bascinet are plate armor? With the mail, it should've less thrust resistance and lighter Moreover, the pointy bascinet should have higher thrust resistance because of its shape, which can deflect thrust and incoming arrows
The arm armor seems to be a bit strange, Lamellar pauldrons is 50 noise, but when equipped, the noise is higher than some of the other arm armor, and Lamellar pauldrons itself seems to be too heavy
Thanks for the suggestions kelvin, I've put these on my list and will give them a sanity check. Looks like it needs another update but it may be a way off yet.
About the only thing there pongkelvin said correctly in regards to RL counterparts of the armor is that the Hounskul helmets should have high thrust defense. Yes, those helmets were designed to deflect popular weapons away from the face. (Fun side note: half-swording as a technique was developed specifically to be able to guide a sword point between the gaps in armor with greater accuracy, which was the direct offensive counter to armor like the hounskul.) However, mail armor actually has EXCELLENT thrust and cut resistance, with historical accounts of mail clad soldiers and knights looking like walking porcupines with all of the arrows stuck in their mail, that failed to cause penetration wounds to the flesh underneath. Plate's advantage is to deflect blows outright, but mail is still excellent at absorbing blows; and there's a reason mail would be worn underneath plate, at least as mail voiders. You still need to be able to help defend against blows that make it past the plate.
Chainmail is heavy and noisy. Whether it's heavier than plate is going to depend on how much there is and how thick it is. For example, a full hauberk is going to be far heavier than a breastplate because there's a lot more metal there. What's important with the aforementioned helmets is that the mail you're referencing is a full mail collar and partial coif attached to the helmet, vs helmets that end at the base of the plate, with no neck-protecting extensions. Even in a 1:1 coverage comparison, most mail was about 14-16ga steel riveted and solid link layers while most plate was 16-18ga steel . . . which would -in the end- make it about a wash in overall weight when you consider air gaps in rings vs. thinner/lighter plate.
Metal lamellar is also heavy and noisy; and acts as a parallel to scale armors (of which a few small examples of scale are seen in some of the neck guards on helmets; and even the scaled skullcap) with similar timeline introduction across different regions of the world. Warhorse does some things great in the game, and some things not-so-well. The fact that some of the armor noises in game aren't done well is one of the faults, but it's a minor fault and a nit-pick. If you want accurate stats, then they're not necessarily lining up with the in game audio.
Metal mail armors are going to be louder than plate armors because there's more moving around, clattering and clanking. Well fitted plate isn't going to have as much noise as you think because it's solid plate that's personally tailored to have appropriate articulations and movements without a lot of loose clanking or clattering. "Munitions grade" armors (more generic armor for rank and file or men at arms, which isn't personally tailored) would make more noise, but not that much. Higher quality armors even used leather fittings between moving plates to lessen noise and increase comfort, especially armor made for nobles that may be wearing their armor in parade or even court/ball settings or other public events. I can tell you my personal steel gorget, for example, has a nice leather lining for the neck harness to make it more comfortable.
Just a little extra info from an old HEMA practitioner.
@Caratar You are correct partially, I didn't notice the Italian Bascinet has large coverage over the neck area. And mail armors are of course louder than most other armor especially plates, the only armor comparable in noise are scale armors which is not present in the game, because of the overlapping and clinging of metals
However, there are various wire diameter and ring diameter if you describe a mail armor, if you compare the SAME plate thickness with same wire diameter using the same kind of metal, given the armors cover the same amount of area on body, the plate should be heavier using simple logic
For thrust resistance, it is well known that mail armor is weaker against plate undoubtedly, a mail armor can be pierce through quite easily with strong bow and arrows except using thick mail wire or multiple layers of mail (neck area where there are aventail and neck mail), you can watch it on Tod's Workshop on Youtube, while you can almost never penetrate plates except the plate area is real thin or at those weak moving parts. There's reason why late-medieval soldiers adopted plates armor in the first place, they work better than mail armor alone, in early medieval period, people use mail armor only, it's not until later they started putting plates on top of mail for additional protection and more importantly against thrust and arrow attacks
@pongkelvin, clearly you didn't actually read thoroughly what I wrote, because I already addressed everything you said, even citing common strengths and thicknesses in metal. You failed at having any sort of "gotcha". Good day.
In my personal experience with a custom harness of plates, it can be pretty noisy. Brigandine is surprisingly quiet, the tight fitting muffles the sound. Mail is quieter than people think too. Yeah there's lots of tiny pieces hitting each other, but that's just it. They're tiny. The bigger the object, the louder it vibrates when struck. It's the same reason necklace chains don't make noise, I mean they do make noise but it's generally too quiet to hear.
I think the difference is, plates aren't constantly making noise, but when they do make noise, it's louder than tiny rings hitting each other. Whereas it's impossible to move in mail without making some noise, but it's really a quiet noise you can't hear outside from more than 10 feet away. There are a lot of factors so it varies, but I feel like I can hear plates banging around from a further distance. Well-fitting mail is also muffled to an extent by the padding under it, and clothing worn over it.
That's true for plates as well. The noise just seems more robust to me. The noise is mainly coming from the articulations, not from ill-fitting pieces banging together. The plates are designed to come in contact with each other. Look at a gauntlet, any time you move your finger the lames are creaking and scraping against each other at the rivets where they're bound together, one on top of the other. There's no gasket in between them, since noise wasn't a concern. And then at the maximum extension, the lames all hit each other, resulting in a "clang" sound. I think it's like that for all pieces of armor with lames.
This is why I think it's odd you said that metal lamellar armor is heavy and noisy, but you said plate armor is not. Both are made of metal plates. In both cases, the thing making the noise is the lames hitting each other. That's why it's called lamellar armor, from Latin lamina, meaning metal plate. Late medieval plate armor is much like lamellar armor, it just has bigger plates where articulation is not necessary, like the breastplate. But articulation is needed in a lot of places, so it naturally has small lames in a bunch of other places, like gauntlets, sabatons, even the inner elbows and inner knees for some field armor worn for tourney foot combat.
Look at King Henry VIII's field armor for the Field of Cloth of Gold for example. Here's the backside, so you can see the inner knee articulations. NASA famously studied it when they were working on the first EVA space suits, to understand how a suit could be rigid but articulable. It's also noteworthy for its epic codpiece (though not as epic as some of Henry's other suits). As the wearer moved around, you'd hear the lames chafing against each other at the rivets, and you'd hear them clanging against each other when they reach the limit of their extension/contraction.
174 comments
Any tips or a guide you can recommend to creating the files in a way that only edits the items affected by the mod? Appreciate your help.
Also when you state that maximum achivable armor ratings are lower. Do you mean more like using exploit style ways or actual normal usage? As honestly plate armour should protect more than it does with vanilla stats.
Honestly I think that its appropriate for Cuman gear to have lower charisma than other similiar items of their level. As that stats potrays how much your armour impresses local people. With how story of game goes majority of folk react negatively or with fear to Cumans. So gear should have lower charisma.
Would you consider version without stat requirements. I understand what you are going for here but because of game engine limitations. As if I understood correctly its just cometic thing and actually does not do anything. Would prefer less clutter in menus. Also because we cant be 100% sure if it does something for under the hood for lets say example NPCs wearing armor as their stats arent balanced for these gear requirements.
Anyway great job with this mod!
- could you also release list of like every items numerical changes so I could compare it to vanilla stats?
Unfortunately it's not possible to do this as the way I changed it was by changing every single item individually and overwriting its stats. If it was a database I could send you some kind of before and after changelog (e.g. in Gitlab) but I just used a text editor. The articles/patch notes and the description covers all items that had "meaningful" changes though so you should be able to identify most of them.
- Also when you state that maximum achivable armor ratings are lower
Basically this is because the outer cloth layer (Jupons) got nerfed. Jupons had the same defensive benefit at half the weight of gambesons which didn't seem correct to me. So now Jupons offer lower defence at same weight. Chain and plate have generally had their maximum defence levels unchanged (with 1 or 2 exceptions - Heavy Hauberk and Chain Leggings). So maximum defence for "everything" except Jupon is the same. Jupon has roughly halved, so your total defence will be about 3-4 points lower. HOWEVER, if you use some of the items I buffed like heavy hauberk and chain legs, total defence might end up roughly the same (at higher weight requirement). I haven't got into a lot of detail of this in the description because the change is so small and won't noticeably affect anyone unless they rely heavily on Jupons.
- Honestly I think that its appropriate for Cuman gear to have lower charisma than other similiar items of their level
I agree, and it also makes sense because Cumans are foreign and their outfits would not be respected in Bohemia at this time. However, I think their items look much too nice to have 1 or 2 charisma (worse than the ugliest peasant shirt). So I struck a middle ground where you can get 6 or 7 charisma which is still not "noble" level, but useful enough that someone could wear a cuman item without completing giving up on their charisma.
- Would you consider version without stat requirements.
I would consider it. This is a really interesting idea and I think you raise a good point. I personally prefer the stat requirements because I think you find gear far too soon in the game (especially if you do any of the treasure maps, or if you're on your second playthrough and know where things are). So I like the red number to cause gear acquisition to be delayed. But I agree it is kinda pointless and could just be removed. It's unlikely to change at this point as my focus is elsewhere, but I do think it's a solid point - thanks a lot.
Thanks a lot for your thoughtful questions and feedback, and I hope you're enjoying the mod.
UI ≈ 49.80 + (50.63 × conspicuousness) − (0.78 × visibility)
This formula consistently produces results with less than 1 point of error, typically within a few decimal places. Once rounded, the predicted values always match the in-game UI numbers exactly.
Each item provides a percentage of coverage. I don't remember what this is - but it's something like torso (cuirass) accounts for 50% of coverage, trousers are 10%, gloves are 5%, etc added up to 100.
50 is the baseline - someone with 50 conspic (0.50 in the code) is neither more nor less visible than normal. So an item with 0.46 conspic, will be slightly less visible than average.
This conspic is then multiplied by the coverage amount that the item provides. So if gloves provide 0.46 conspic and they account for 5% of the wearer's total, then the effect will be minimal. So for example, if you are just wearing gloves and nothing else, your characters total conspic (different from item conspic) will still probably be 50 because the gloves don't really make any difference on their own.
Try that and let me know how you go :) I hope that helps with your question. Feel free to DM as well.
Example this code for Blue Hood from equippable_item.xml:
<row charisma="5" conspicuousness="0.37"
item_id="4a5b1f83-07dc-3530-3831-e110aed5ffb7" rpg_buff_weight="0"
social_class_id="1" visibility="0.44" wealth_level="0" />
Formula calculates its right ingame Conspic 69 and Visibility 72 it works for every item I have tested +40 items.
With this you can get exact conspic and visibility numbers done in equippable_item.xml.
Conspicuousness UI:49.80+(50.63×0.37)−(0.78×0.44)=49.80+18.7331−0.3432=68.1899 rounded 68
Visibility UI:49.80+(50.63×0.44)−(0.78×0.37)=49.80+22.2772−0.2886=71.7886 rounded 72
In reverse it is:
Conspicuousness UI: 68 = 49.80 + 50.63 × c − 0.78 × v
Visibility UI: 72 = 49.80 + 50.63 × v − 0.78 × c
It is little complicated but you can basicly automate calculation with
program, spreadsheet or AI to do it fast and easy. But yeah this always gives right
values for items.
Every item has "base" 50 conspic/vis (not shown) which is the normal level of visibility. The number then multiplies this. So if an item shows 0.38 conspic in the file, it has 50 x (1 + 0.38) = 69 conspic. This is why all conspic/vis values can be either positive or negative (look up some stealth items like tarred jacket or dark gambeson - they'll have a minus because they reduce conspic).
So all vis/conspic numbers exist on a scale between -1.00 and 1.00. These are multipliers. So an item with 0.90 conspic will have 95 conspic in-game (50 * 1.9).
I don't know the answer to your question about stab damage unfortunately, I asked a few variants of that question myself 9-12 months ago. Let me know if you find it out though. (because i tweaked the tusk sword to also do blunt damage).
is it compatible with https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/651?tab=description
Better Combat and Immersion Compilation and EqualBaseArmour part?
should I load them in specific order>?
zzz_BCAIC_EqualBaseArmour.pak
Libs\Tables\rpg\soul_archetype__BCAIC.xml
- NPC and Player base armour equalled. NPCs have more and the Player has a lot less compared to default values (more than a deer, less than a boar).
The mods will definitely conflict, but if you prefer the Better Combat and Immersion, it's best to load that last, after MoreSensible.
Depending on how they have set up the file structure, it will either overwrite MoreSensible completely, or just overwrite the changes that conflict (so you'll get parts of MoreSensible as well as the full BCI experience).
TLDR: Whichever mod you prefer, load that last, as its changes will overwrite earlier mods. So if you have some mod that changes e.g. animations and items, but you want the MoreSensible item changes, load MoreSensible last (as it doesnt change animations, but its item changes will overwrite), or vice versa.
If that doesn't work, you can try loading it before MS, but that will cause MS polearm damage to overwrite PU which I don't think would be what you want. However if PU overwrites all changes (i.e. you get no effect from MS at all) then you might have to load PU first.
Either way, you should be able to enjoy the animations of PU as MoreSensible doesn't touch these. Report back and let us know how it goes?
I think in your attempt to change the icon you changed the model.
Can easily be verified by booting the game and looking at Raven's Beak and spiked war-hammer with and without mod active.
Yes only this mod solo was used to verify.
Both version of your mod have this error.
Edit: just confirmed it in the files - in "pickable_item__MoreSensible.xml" if you switch the model for Raven's Beak to "weapons/war_hammers/warhammer_04.cgf" and for the spiked war-hammer to "weapons/war_hammers/warhammer_02.cgf" this fixes the issue and reverts it back to the correct state. Unfortunately I don't know how to swap the icons, but hopefully this will help you fix it.
Also this mod fixes the icons if you just want to take a look at how they fixed it for reference: https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/1693?tab=description
I'm starting a new run and wanted to clarify that if I use your 'MoreSensible alternate - No Stolen Tags' version then I don't need 'No stolen Item tags' at all.
I've briefly looked at both pickable_Items.xmls and other than a few notes you made they are the same, correct?
Thx
Longer explanation: If you install the no stolen item tags mod it will clash with moresensible because they edit the same items. Hence the creation of "MoreSensible alternate" for players that want both. Let me know if you need any more help with it - I hope you enjoy it!
You can also equip weapons you don't meet the requirements for, but those weapons will show a warning, swing slower and do a lot less damage. Afaict there's no equivalent effect for wearing armor you're not strong enough for.
All light armor is determined by its armor type which also controls the sound it makes. I forget the exact line of code, but open up the file with the armor values in it and ctrl + f "plate". Anything with type set to plate is automatically heavy armor, which also governs the sound it plays. A bit more info here: v1.1 comprehensive light armor rework at Kingdom Come: Deliverance Nexus - Mods and community
In HEMA, the gloves/gauntlets are typically heavier than the rest of the armor. There isn't generally a need for a lot of heavy armor, since the weapons are dull. But you get hit on the hands so often that even with a dull blade, the chances of eventually suffering a debilitating injury are high. So a lot of people train with plastic gauntlets but the rest of the body is mainly covered in padded fabric, just because your hands get hit a lot in the course of fighting.
Otherwise, this change list is amazing, and it's a minor nitpick anyway. Great work!
Edit: What's the reason for changing these to light armor? Seems like this adds some tension if you're using the perk that gives charisma for plate armor in sunny weather, and the rest of the matching set counts as plate.
Why change polish and meissen pauldrons to light armor?
I hope that helps, and thanks a lot for your thoughtful comments. I hope you enjoy the mod.
The ability to dodge (as presented in the game) is affected only by the strength and freedom of movement of the legs. As well as the total weight of the upper body.
I don't think that a kettle hat with a larger brims will affect the balance so much..
unlike, for example, a shield or Chainmail greaves (which for some reason are light armor in this mod).
Generally, dodging in this game is not a particularly unbalanced way of self-defense.
Therefore, it may not be necessary to limit the "light armor" perk so much. ( Come on, these kettle hats with a larger brims are depicted even on the perk itself,)
And yes. Great mod! Thank you for your work. <3
I've made some notes to have a look at this if i make another pass.
Moreover, the pointy bascinet should have higher thrust resistance because of its shape, which can deflect thrust and incoming arrows
The arm armor seems to be a bit strange, Lamellar pauldrons is 50 noise, but when equipped, the noise is higher than some of the other arm armor, and Lamellar pauldrons itself seems to be too heavy
Chainmail is heavy and noisy. Whether it's heavier than plate is going to depend on how much there is and how thick it is. For example, a full hauberk is going to be far heavier than a breastplate because there's a lot more metal there. What's important with the aforementioned helmets is that the mail you're referencing is a full mail collar and partial coif attached to the helmet, vs helmets that end at the base of the plate, with no neck-protecting extensions. Even in a 1:1 coverage comparison, most mail was about 14-16ga steel riveted and solid link layers while most plate was 16-18ga steel . . . which would -in the end- make it about a wash in overall weight when you consider air gaps in rings vs. thinner/lighter plate.
Metal lamellar is also heavy and noisy; and acts as a parallel to scale armors (of which a few small examples of scale are seen in some of the neck guards on helmets; and even the scaled skullcap) with similar timeline introduction across different regions of the world. Warhorse does some things great in the game, and some things not-so-well. The fact that some of the armor noises in game aren't done well is one of the faults, but it's a minor fault and a nit-pick. If you want accurate stats, then they're not necessarily lining up with the in game audio.
Metal mail armors are going to be louder than plate armors because there's more moving around, clattering and clanking. Well fitted plate isn't going to have as much noise as you think because it's solid plate that's personally tailored to have appropriate articulations and movements without a lot of loose clanking or clattering. "Munitions grade" armors (more generic armor for rank and file or men at arms, which isn't personally tailored) would make more noise, but not that much. Higher quality armors even used leather fittings between moving plates to lessen noise and increase comfort, especially armor made for nobles that may be wearing their armor in parade or even court/ball settings or other public events. I can tell you my personal steel gorget, for example, has a nice leather lining for the neck harness to make it more comfortable.
Just a little extra info from an old HEMA practitioner.
However, there are various wire diameter and ring diameter if you describe a mail armor, if you compare the SAME plate thickness with same wire diameter using the same kind of metal, given the armors cover the same amount of area on body, the plate should be heavier using simple logic
For thrust resistance, it is well known that mail armor is weaker against plate undoubtedly, a mail armor can be pierce through quite easily with strong bow and arrows except using thick mail wire or multiple layers of mail (neck area where there are aventail and neck mail), you can watch it on Tod's Workshop on Youtube, while you can almost never penetrate plates except the plate area is real thin or at those weak moving parts. There's reason why late-medieval soldiers adopted plates armor in the first place, they work better than mail armor alone, in early medieval period, people use mail armor only, it's not until later they started putting plates on top of mail for additional protection and more importantly against thrust and arrow attacks
I think the difference is, plates aren't constantly making noise, but when they do make noise, it's louder than tiny rings hitting each other. Whereas it's impossible to move in mail without making some noise, but it's really a quiet noise you can't hear outside from more than 10 feet away. There are a lot of factors so it varies, but I feel like I can hear plates banging around from a further distance. Well-fitting mail is also muffled to an extent by the padding under it, and clothing worn over it.
That's true for plates as well. The noise just seems more robust to me. The noise is mainly coming from the articulations, not from ill-fitting pieces banging together. The plates are designed to come in contact with each other. Look at a gauntlet, any time you move your finger the lames are creaking and scraping against each other at the rivets where they're bound together, one on top of the other. There's no gasket in between them, since noise wasn't a concern. And then at the maximum extension, the lames all hit each other, resulting in a "clang" sound. I think it's like that for all pieces of armor with lames.
This is why I think it's odd you said that metal lamellar armor is heavy and noisy, but you said plate armor is not. Both are made of metal plates. In both cases, the thing making the noise is the lames hitting each other. That's why it's called lamellar armor, from Latin lamina, meaning metal plate. Late medieval plate armor is much like lamellar armor, it just has bigger plates where articulation is not necessary, like the breastplate. But articulation is needed in a lot of places, so it naturally has small lames in a bunch of other places, like gauntlets, sabatons, even the inner elbows and inner knees for some field armor worn for tourney foot combat.
Look at King Henry VIII's field armor for the Field of Cloth of Gold for example. Here's the backside, so you can see the inner knee articulations. NASA famously studied it when they were working on the first EVA space suits, to understand how a suit could be rigid but articulable. It's also noteworthy for its epic codpiece (though not as epic as some of Henry's other suits). As the wearer moved around, you'd hear the lames chafing against each other at the rivets, and you'd hear them clanging against each other when they reach the limit of their extension/contraction.