Range damage is set to be just a little more than the best plate (when fired from the best bows). It shouldn't be a 'good' idea to shoot at full harness if they can reach you, but lightly equipped enemies can be killed. I want to increase the proc'ing of bleed damage from arrow hits that penetrate, but the 'weakness' of arrows vs armour is intentional. (Subject to testing and tuning).
I have an issue here. My strength is 20 right now and the npc can't even block my basic attacks which makes the sword combo very difficult to use. How can I increase the npc's ability to block my attacks or just decrease my strength a little bit? Is there any solution to this? Thank you
The bow on testing is weaker than I intended. I will revise upwards when I tinker later today. I want armour penetration to be poor, but to retain post-penetration effect - so that might require some script change as well as the item stats. (you can remove the arrows.xml and arrows.tbl files from the mod pak (just a renamed zip file) to return to vanilla values, but this will be overpowered compared to melee, as it is in the base game, but moreso).
just tested this mod with guards (like I test every combat mod) vanilla Sword 1-3 hit guards normal armored. 5-6 hit heavy armored guards
Vanilla Bow 1 shot normal guards 2-3 shot heavy armored guards.
Mod sword; 2-6 shot guards with normal armor. Guards with heavy armor actually put up a fight (1-2 min) and usually can only be killed quickly when you pull off some combos. (as it should be)
Mod Bow Shot a guard with light armor 8 times in the chest before he dropped. Heavy armor just deflects except I shoot in the foot. I let myself shot in the chest with only light armor (30 armor protection) the arrow was deflected as well.
suggestions: - Buff Bow damage - implement penalties for wearing heavy armor (need more stamina for every hit, block, dodge)
Armor is way too strong in my opinion. Realistically if someone shoots you with a bow from a close distance it will penetrate the armor. Might not kill you but definitely injure you. IRL it would probably break your rips and you would die from internal bleeding. Just saying :p
I would def. donate to whoever actually pulls it off creating a truly balanced mod where playing a assasin/archer is just as rewarding as playing a knight with heavy armor and a huge coc* I mean sword.
There's no way in hell that a bow can penetrate plate armor. Even a 400kg crossbow barely penetrates plate (just watch some youtube vids). That said, i do agree that the bow damage should be doing a little bit more damage on the plate enemies, it just isn't fun to run around with a bow that's practically useless.
Could you make a simple mod for me? A mod which allows one's weapon damage to rise only to a certain point. Say 100. So if an effect would put it at 150, it instead is reduced to 100. Or maybe 80? Or maybe allows damage to be the maximum of 80, and if it'd be above 80 then str and sword skill are added on top of the 80. (That way there's scaling, but it's not hyper powerful.)
Or could you make a mod which simply gives all enemies 10 times the HP. (Though, with 5x and 3x variants. So one could find what fits them best.)
Can't help with what value it should take (or what the best pairing of coefficients or limit for DamR and it's conversion to health impact should be), but feel free to experiment
Just enable both agl and str requirement in weapon.xml (only one is listed into the inventory (except for bows)). 'Primary' stat increases faster than secondary.
This mod really makes combat more challenging, especially with heavy armor foes, but, I have some problem when hunting, just after so many shots, the boar still standing...like nothing happened. Should I use a hunting arrow?
bro @Lieste if you dont mind could you please tell me how to tweak st george sword damage on your xml files , i dont know which item id to edit thanks a lot
I honestly can't be bothered doing it myself, but in the rpgparam.xml, there is a line called<row rpg_param_key="SkillToDmgConstA" rpg_param_value="70" /> This line, when 70 is increased, it will incrementally reduce the damage that skills apply to the weapon damage stat. I have found 400 to sufficiently reduce virtually all weapon damage buffs and reduce the damage to the weapon's base damage. Perks will still increase the damage aka chain strike etc, but the base weapon damage should only be your weapons listed damage. This is a little easier than nerfing every weapon's base damage.
Hi, Lieste, I had the feeling you would be among the first to start increasing combat challenge :D I just reached the point of total overpoweredness aswell, so I am looking for mods to rectify that - don´t think that WH has enough time now to address this :)
So far this tip from Jakeo seems really good, because I like that my stats increase my time windows for attacks/blocks, what I am not fine with is that my sword suddenly deals 2.5x more damage than it did when I first got it... and can slice through any armor at ease, making maces absolutely obsolete :D
Coming from the fact that early on the diffictuly felt completely fine and fair, I found that reducing base weapon damage gimps early game characters, while still allowing you to become OP lategame, while just reducing damagescaling from stats does exactly the opposite - keeps early game manageable, and makes you much weaker in late. You should definitely try this approach aswell.Especially with mod for higher armor values it works wonders.
@jakeo hey is it okay if i repost your comment about your findings in the harder enemies mod, as well? since me and a few other users have been messing around with a lot of different variables to try and fix lategame combat inclunding MaxDamage and Maxdmgr, and kain has been using a different approach by increasing armor defense values.
I am about 40 hours in, and my weapons do about 55 dmg currently. How does the mod work? did you tweak every single weapon to do less damage? Will this mod make my weapons do less?
Will the tweak that Jakeo mentioned (which you said will be in the next version) change the early game balance or will it just tone down the late game spike? because it seems that what the game needs is to make progression less steep as you go so. tone down the curve. does this mod does that or does it somply lower everything?
So today gaining skills basically increase (any) weapons damage? This would be pretty bad, weapon damage should only be increased by, well, better weapons.
Yes, all weapons tweaked to be within a range of damage - difference between weapons mostly about weight, durability and the marginal differences in damage (but against 'some armour' a few points more damage is "a lot", the difference between doing damage and not). This is a first pass, and I plan to revisit the numbers after more time in game. (Currently enjoying the change at Str17/Agl14/Vit15, Def15/War14/Swd16).
Arrows were tuned to 'just' penetrate the best plate armour from a moderately heavy bow... but it might be desirable to increase them a little from there (and/or to eliminate 'stamina as armour' rather than a resource consumed during a parry).
Still figuring out where everything is stored, and how things interact, so this is a simple 'single point' change (though one which adjusts each item, rather than applying a global scalar). I want to push 'cheap' plate armour (such as Common Bascinets) and padded arming garments (such as Pourpoints) up in damage resistance as well, even if they can have low durability and/or charisma compared to better/heavier examples)...
Amazing find! Reducing damage scaling with skills is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, things we can do to fix damage scaling and keep the game challenging throughout a playthrough.
Changing <row rpg_param_key="SkillToDmgConstA" rpg_param_value="70" /> to 400 does nothing for me, is the change supposed to appear in the melee damage table in the inventory? Because my damage is still much higher than my weapon damage.
Its in tables.pak in Data folder. You have to unpack it, then search a bit for that (i think that path is tables.pak->rpg->lib... or something like that.
is there anyway i could convince you to have a separate version with the ranged damage untouched? i have a very strong bow with good arrows and henry is at level 20 in everything yet it takes 5 shots to kill a deer.... the ranged damage nerf is far too severe and bows should be extremely powerful, realistically speaking.
i would change the values myself if i knew how but i dont.
Here is a boar that ive killed....
https://i.imgur.com/cgtSHb2.png
with a mace.
27 arrows from a yew longbow didnt kill it. please oh please take this into consideration.
Found a very simple solution to this problem, if you open the file in 7-Zip or WinRAR go to Libs > Tables > item and delete the 2 files called ammo. This should return the arrows to their normal damage.
Could you make a separate version of the mod with swords still being strength based? I mean really, imo I think they should be both, but I personally prefer strength in this so far.
My experience of fencing is that longsword has a lower strength requirement than single handed swords, they accomplish more with less effort, but correctly manipulating the hilt takes more coordination than a single handed sword.
I temporarily set all longswords to one set of AGL & Str, single handed swords to another, sabres another etc. Swords biased towards Agility, percussion weapons to strength. While a little variation is probably valid, I don't see much difference between a 'high class' and 'cheap and nasty' sword of functional proportions (differences to subtle aspects of balance, to durability, and most significantly to 'prestige' and bling). A cheap 'cutting' sword and a more expensive one are likely to be nearly identical in function, while a pair of thrusting swords would have more difference to the cutting weapons than to each other. If anything a 'well made' weapon might be more refined in feel, rather than less, with lower stat requirements (But I didn't opt to bias them in this way).
I'm a 115lb weakling, but with some practice I am able to fence against much larger opponents with some success.
Bro, please don't go in this direction, this is what I was afraid of with the original game's promises of authenticity, too. Let's face it, complete realism = no fun. If we were truly aiming for it, you'd pretty much be a life-long cripple after the first few scraps you get into in this game, instead of shrugging it off with a bandage or two and some rest. Therefore, yes, ofc there isn't REALLY that much of a difference in terms of killing power between a sword I could make with a year's worth of blacksmith training and one that a master smith could do BUT this is a game, and a RPG at that, and we NEED that feeling of progression to make the game actually fun. It's bad enough that in the original you could go on a stealing spree in the first few hours of the game and buy yourself a full set of milanese plate armor and then steal Hans' sword and never get a better weapon till the end of the game...
Thankyou, but I think this thinking is what caused the issue in the first place.
If the maximum armour is "around 50", then a weapon capable of doing 48 damage and one doing 52 damage are a world apart. Both are useful against peasants in Gambeson, but only one of them is capable of reliably doing anything to the 'best' harness fighter (though his arms and head are likely a little weaker). Bonuses and Maluses don't need to be 20%/50% to be useful either... in the marginal cases (where interesting things happen) a 2-3% difference is meaningful without overwhelming the balance.
Strictly realistically harness should be totally reliable against slashes and arrows which hit it. It is a concession to gameplay (and simplification) to permit a sword to 'tickle' a fighter who is wearing harness. The absence of formal harnessfechten requires that this be possible. You don't need it to head towards "130 damage" to be epic... and this type of excessive scaling harms the combat by making it entirely trivial/risky (if he also has a magic longsword).
Well ok, when you put it like that it's a whole different story, ofc. I don't care at all what number it says, hell if 11 and 10 dmg is a world of difference with your other settings, then great! All I'm saying is that if possible it's great to be able to keep (for the most part) the sense of progression between weapons, even if it DOES have only a little bit of difference on paper.. if that's what you're going for then GREAT! :)
Not directly... but if they don't die as quickly then they can be more aggressive over the course of the fight... even if not especially so in an intensive way. Also if they mess up and hit each other they don't do as much harm as before (where you could cheese 4-5 enemies so they killed each other fairly easily).
The dread type perks are on the cards for a toning down, because I want to fight, mostly.. but it is quite nice to have *some* nod towards how scary a killer in full harness should be.
@Lieste Alright; was just wondering because the mod by BenUK (Harder enemies - Enemy Health and Stamina Overhaul (Customizable)) makes some minor AI tweaks I like quite a bit.
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It shouldn't be a 'good' idea to shoot at full harness if they can reach you, but lightly equipped enemies can be killed. I want to increase the proc'ing of bleed damage from arrow hits that penetrate, but the 'weakness' of arrows vs armour is intentional. (Subject to testing and tuning).
I want armour penetration to be poor, but to retain post-penetration effect - so that might require some script change as well as the item stats. (you can remove the arrows.xml and arrows.tbl files from the mod pak (just a renamed zip file) to return to vanilla values, but this will be overpowered compared to melee, as it is in the base game, but moreso).
vanilla Sword
1-3 hit guards normal armored.
5-6 hit heavy armored guards
Vanilla Bow
1 shot normal guards
2-3 shot heavy armored guards.
Mod sword;
2-6 shot guards with normal armor.
Guards with heavy armor actually put up a fight (1-2 min) and usually can only be killed quickly when you pull off some combos. (as it should be)
Mod Bow
Shot a guard with light armor 8 times in the chest before he dropped. Heavy armor just deflects except I shoot in the foot.
I let myself shot in the chest with only light armor (30 armor protection) the arrow was deflected as well.
suggestions:
- Buff Bow damage
- implement penalties for wearing heavy armor (need more stamina for every hit, block, dodge)
Armor is way too strong in my opinion. Realistically if someone shoots you with a bow from a close distance it will penetrate the armor.
Might not kill you but definitely injure you. IRL it would probably break your rips and you would die from internal bleeding. Just saying :p
I would def. donate to whoever actually pulls it off creating a truly balanced mod where playing a assasin/archer is just as rewarding as playing a knight with heavy armor and a huge coc* I mean sword.
Could you make a simple mod for me? A mod which allows one's weapon damage to rise only to a certain point. Say 100. So if an effect would put it at 150, it instead is reduced to 100.
Or maybe 80? Or maybe allows damage to be the maximum of 80, and if it'd be above 80 then str and sword skill are added on top of the 80. (That way there's scaling, but it's not hyper powerful.)
Or could you make a mod which simply gives all enemies 10 times the HP. (Though, with 5x and 3x variants. So one could find what fits them best.)
Can't help with what value it should take (or what the best pairing of coefficients or limit for DamR and it's conversion to health impact should be), but feel free to experiment
Should I use a hunting arrow?
thanks a lot
This line, when 70 is increased, it will incrementally reduce the damage that skills apply to the weapon damage stat. I have found 400 to sufficiently reduce virtually all weapon damage buffs and reduce the damage to the weapon's base damage. Perks will still increase the damage aka chain strike etc, but the base weapon damage should only be your weapons listed damage. This is a little easier than nerfing every weapon's base damage.
So far this tip from Jakeo seems really good, because I like that my stats increase my time windows for attacks/blocks, what I am not fine with is that my sword suddenly deals 2.5x more damage than it did when I first got it... and can slice through any armor at ease, making maces absolutely obsolete :D
Coming from the fact that early on the diffictuly felt completely fine and fair, I found that reducing base weapon damage gimps early game characters, while still allowing you to become OP lategame, while just reducing damagescaling from stats does exactly the opposite - keeps early game manageable, and makes you much weaker in late. You should definitely try this approach aswell.Especially with mod for higher armor values it works wonders.
Thanks for your effort anyway fellow tester :)
How does the mod work? did you tweak every single weapon to do less damage?
Will this mod make my weapons do less?
Will the tweak that Jakeo mentioned (which you said will be in the next version) change the early game balance or will it just tone down the late game spike? because it seems that what the game needs is to make progression less steep as you go so. tone down the curve. does this mod does that or does it somply lower everything?
So today gaining skills basically increase (any) weapons damage? This would be pretty bad, weapon damage should only be increased by, well, better weapons.
Arrows were tuned to 'just' penetrate the best plate armour from a moderately heavy bow... but it might be desirable to increase them a little from there (and/or to eliminate 'stamina as armour' rather than a resource consumed during a parry).
Still figuring out where everything is stored, and how things interact, so this is a simple 'single point' change (though one which adjusts each item, rather than applying a global scalar). I want to push 'cheap' plate armour (such as Common Bascinets) and padded arming garments (such as Pourpoints) up in damage resistance as well, even if they can have low durability and/or charisma compared to better/heavier examples)...
i would change the values myself if i knew how but i dont.
Here is a boar that ive killed....
https://i.imgur.com/cgtSHb2.png
with a mace.
27 arrows from a yew longbow didnt kill it. please oh please take this into consideration.
I temporarily set all longswords to one set of AGL & Str, single handed swords to another, sabres another etc. Swords biased towards Agility, percussion weapons to strength.
While a little variation is probably valid, I don't see much difference between a 'high class' and 'cheap and nasty' sword of functional proportions (differences to subtle aspects of balance, to durability, and most significantly to 'prestige' and bling). A cheap 'cutting' sword and a more expensive one are likely to be nearly identical in function, while a pair of thrusting swords would have more difference to the cutting weapons than to each other. If anything a 'well made' weapon might be more refined in feel, rather than less, with lower stat requirements (But I didn't opt to bias them in this way).
I'm a 115lb weakling, but with some practice I am able to fence against much larger opponents with some success.
If the maximum armour is "around 50", then a weapon capable of doing 48 damage and one doing 52 damage are a world apart. Both are useful against peasants in Gambeson, but only one of them is capable of reliably doing anything to the 'best' harness fighter (though his arms and head are likely a little weaker). Bonuses and Maluses don't need to be 20%/50% to be useful either... in the marginal cases (where interesting things happen) a 2-3% difference is meaningful without overwhelming the balance.
Strictly realistically harness should be totally reliable against slashes and arrows which hit it. It is a concession to gameplay (and simplification) to permit a sword to 'tickle' a fighter who is wearing harness. The absence of formal harnessfechten requires that this be possible.
You don't need it to head towards "130 damage" to be epic... and this type of excessive scaling harms the combat by making it entirely trivial/risky (if he also has a magic longsword).
When I'm fighting 3+ guys, they shouldn't take turns attacking me; nor should they surrender/flee before I've even drawn my sword.
The dread type perks are on the cards for a toning down, because I want to fight, mostly.. but it is quite nice to have *some* nod towards how scary a killer in full harness should be.