I was told by two separate users that some coursers were using gen 1 synth voices. I was unable to find a fix, so I took the mod down. Since then, I have been unable to reproduce this bug. Likewise, both tenhats and Palurien1985 have attempted to reproduce the issue without success. As such, we have concluded the problem is likely a mod conflict/load order issue, so if you encounter coursers with gen 1 voices, please check your load order for conflicts. Otherwise, please update to the most recent version (v4 as of this writing), as I will not be supporting earlier versions (especially v3, which is just plain broken).
I installed this in my current game and it instantly gave the bug that version 2 is supposed to fix. PAM keeps sending me to Wattz Consumer to take out another courser and the last two have had Gen 1 voices and for some reason been invisible. Not stealthboy invisible, but completely un-seeable even when killed, though their weapons are still visible.
I had a look in xEdit and it showed no conflicts, just the expected modifications to the base game behavior. Any idea what might be going on?
I think it has something to do with LvlSynthCourser [NPC_:001628EE]. It uses the SynthCourserTeleportScript which, for some reason, calls on Gen 1 and 2 synths, as well. What's happening, I think, is that the game is trying to spawn a courser, but because of that script, it can spawn a Gen 1 or 2 synth instead. At the same time, it is trying to apply one of the courser faces, so you end up with a courser that has a Gen 1 or 2 voice. I'm guessing the invisibility aspect you're experiencing is related since, as far as I know, Gen 1 synths can't wear clothing, so when it spawns with a courser uniform, it turns invisible.
That said, LvlSynthCourser [NPC_:001628EE] was part of Version 1, but I removed it thinking it would solve the problem since it would no longer have a direct path to the Courser face pool. Since it still happens, though, this tells me it could happen even without "Diverse Coursers" installed, because that script is a vanilla script. Removing the Gen 1/2 property from LvlSynthCourser [NPC_:001628EE] might work, but it could break the "Synth Ambush" and "Synths vs. Scavengers" random encounters, as the Gen 1 and 2 synths in those encounters use LvlSynthCourser [NPC_:001628EE] for some reason.
Regardless, I'll keep digging. Maybe I can find a workaround.
Version 3 is up. The real culprit appears to be LvlSynthTeleport [NPC_:00050DC9]. It is used by both coursers and random encounter gen 1 synths, so I made a duplicate of the record, renamed it RESynths, and redirected the random encounter gen 1 references to this duplicate. In the original, I swapped the gen 1 data with courser data. If this doesn't work, the problem is either related to a mod conflict or load order issue, as I went through every courser NPC (Actor) record (and connected references) and LvlSynthTeleport [NPC_:00050DC9] was the only intersection with gen 1 synths. Let me know if it works.
Upgraded to version 3 and still have the problems, with a fun new side effect to boot. I used a synth grenade while clearing out Kingsport Lighthouse and it beamed in a courser. I chucked another into the CoA crater to the north and yup, courser again.
I do have two other mods that effect synths, Alias (gives them names) and Durable Relay Synths (tries to level summoned synths so they don't get toasted in 3 seconds like they usually do). Could either/both be causing problems that don't show up as conflicts in xEdit?
[EDIT] I should add Eli's Armour Compendium as well since that can change the courser uniform, I think.
I saw that relay grenades were connected to LvlSynthTeleport, but I thought it was just the flash effect rather than the spawn effect. I'll take another look at it to see if I can redirect it to the new RESynths record.
Were the grenade coursers using gen 1 voices? Or courser voices? If they were using courser voices, then redirecting the grenade to the RESynths record might be the final piece of the puzzle.
I don't think Alias would affect them, but the other one might. I'll have to take a look at it and get back to you.
Edit: Durable Relay Synths does conflict. It modifies the LvlSynthTeleport record.
Eli's should be fine since it changes the outfit/armor leveled lists rather than the NPCs directly, but I'll take a look at that, too, just to be sure.
Did a quick test and the summoned coursers do use courser voices. I tried it with Durable Relay disabled for good measure and didn't see any difference. Visited Railroad HQ and got got sent to Wattz (why do they keep going there?) and the courser there was still invisible with a gen 1 voice.
The invisible synth might be related to Eli's Armor Compendium. It modifies the outfit for RR301InstituteCourser "Institute Courser" [NPC_:0010C4FA] which, in turn, calls on RR301LvlSynthTeleport [NPC_:0023CACA], which has a bunch of gen 1 data.
Just checked and the invisible/synth voiced coursers and the normal voiced grenade summoned ones both had the stock uniform. Eli's version has a different name a a generic preview in pip-boy inventory so it doesn't seem to be that.
I upgraded to version 4 and the problem with coursers at Wattz persists, but on the positive side grenade synths are no longer coursers. I tried with it loaded below everything else and found no change. Checking the full load order in xEdit still shows nothing other than intended mods to Fallout.esm records. Is there a way of checking for conflicts that xEdit misses?
At this point I can understand if you'd rather just say "your problem now" and be done with it. I appreciate your responses and the work you've put into fixing this. For what it's worth I have most of your other diverse/face fix series installed and they all work seamlessly.
If you open up Diverse Coursers in fo4edit, you'll see there's nothing in it that can produce gen 1 synth voices. The only vanilla record it alters is EncSynthCourser01Template "Institute Courser" [NPC_:000BE184], to which I added a "Traits" entry pointing it to the face pool. All of the face pool entries are duplicates of the vanilla EncSynthCourser01Template "Institute Courser" [NPC_:000BE184] with only their face data changed. Every generic courser record in the game connects to that 01Template in some form or other, which is what allows them to receive variable faces from the pool.
That said, unless there's a vanilla bug buried so deep in the game files that no one has found it, the likely culprit is another mod that has altered a different record somewhere in the chain of courser data that eventually points to EncSynthCourser01Template "Institute Courser" [NPC_:000BE184]. I'd start by looking for any mods you're using that may have altered LCharSynthCourser [LVLN:001628EF] and/or LvlSynthCourser [NPC_:001628EE]. My mod doesn't touch them, but it still relies on them to send courser data to/from my modified EncSynthCourser01Template "Institute Courser" [NPC_:000BE184] record. Most (if not all) generic coursers filter through those two records, too, but since my mod doesn't touch either, fo4edit wouldn't show a conflict.
In any case, let me know if you find anything. I'll keep an eye out for any other entry points for gen 1 voices.
Just noticed the update and re-installed to test. Initial results are promising, no incorporeal coursers so far. The problem was really obvious before after the main quest when I was getting sent to knock off the same courser at Wattz over and over again. Not there yet in my my current game but I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks for keeping an eye out. I think the invisible courser issue was the result of some coursers being unable to access the face pool, so they'd end up without any face/body data. The update switches the face pool access point, so there shouldn't be any more invisible coursers unless there's a conflict with another mod. However, as I mentioned in another post, generic coursers with predetermined, fixed locations (e.g., those patrolling the Institute) may require direct edits to point them to the face pool. That's something I'll look into in the near future.
Sorry for the delayed reply but I can confirm that version five did fix all the problems I was having. After several iterations of Variable Removal no invisibility or voice mismatch and noticeably different faces showing up.
The lack of face diversity amongst the coursers has bothered me since my first playthrough. Thank you for providing this much-needed solution. I look forward to downloading it and testing it out.
Thanks, and I hope it works well for you. It won't completely eliminate repetition, but it is a start, and future additions to the pool should further reduce how often you see the same faces. Also, figuring out how to create a custom face pool for the Coursers opens the door to making custom face pools for other groups that normally don't have them.
I've finally made it into the Institute in my current playthrough, and I noticed that one of the first coursers you come across, who is having a conversation with Newton Oberly outside the SRB, is both invisible and silent. The crosshair still shows there is a courser, and the subtitles show the dialogue is being run through normally. I did spot a courser after I left the SRB the first time, though it was using the generic face model (this may have been a coincidence).
I'm on V4 of this mod, it is quite low in my load order, and I can't see anything that would conflict. I hope this info is helpful.
I transferred the vanilla face models into the face pool (no need to waste them), so that part is surely a coincidence.
I didn't encounter any invisible coursers when trying to replicate the Gen 1 voice issue, but since this is the second time an invisible courser has been reported, I'll start testing for it specifically. Of course, I'll post my findings here.
Thank you for your quick response. I won't be able to confirm the particular invisible courser until my next playthrough, but I did spot another one having a conversation with a Gen 3 about accessing the SRB terminal, and that went normally. However, all of my coursers are using the standard face model; I spotted three in the same interior cell in different locations, in the upper walkways of the Institute's atrium.
I am using https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/74993 in the same save, though that plugin is much higher in my load order than your Diverse Coursers plugin. It seems unlikely, but could that be having an impact?
Either way, it's no big deal for me. I appreciate the work you put in to make Fallout 4 a better experience for all.
When I swing back around to finalize the standalone Diverse mods in preparation for the AiO, I think I'm going to rebuild this one from the ground up. Currently, it only changes one entry in one vanilla record, which is to point the "Traits" template actor to the face pool. That should be enough for any generic coursers that call on that record (which is all of them, as far as I know). However, it could be that the change only affects coursers that spawn at random, while coursers with predetermined, fixed locations--such as those patrolling the Institute--have to be pointed to the face pool directly. I guess I'll find out when I get there.
Regarding the relay grenade mod, it shouldn't be a problem since it uses RobCo Patcher to do its thing (which I assume is some sort of script injection).
Not particularly, but none of them are in their final form, so every time I update one of them, you'd have to rebuild/update your merge file. That said, I'll be releasing an all-in-one at some point in the spring (hopefully in the first half of the season), which will consist of the finalized versions of the individual mods. If you don't want to wait for the AiO, though, then by all means, merge as you see fit for your own game. I know a lot of users are already doing it.
If this Diverse series ever gets all the wrinkles ironed out, will the series ever end up collated into one mod page? (Not even saying AIO although that would be a wonderment, just streamlining the various mods into one place before the Collections crew comes along)
Although I haven't ruled out a dedicated page for everything, given the fact that most of them will have multiple patches to make them compatible with other mods, keeping the individual Diverse entries separate will make it easier to find their respective patches. If I just want the BoS patches, for instance, it will be easier to find them on the dedicated Diverse BoS page than sifting through the combined list of the entire Diverse series.
I suppose the AiO might interest some collection curators, but I don't expect it for the standalone entries, unless we're talking about a themed collection. "Diverse Minutemen," for example, might interest someone who is putting together a Minutemen-focused collection.
I don't know much about the Storywealth collection since I don't use it, but I know it contains some stuff that will definitely conflict with the Diverse AiO. I'll be making an optional "Immersion and Quality of Life" pack for the AiO as well, and it will conflict with even more stuff from the collection. All of these conflicts can be resolved with patches, I think, but it'll take a lot of work.
nice! no more clones lol. now all we need is a spawner mod that sends coursers in various locations through out the commonwealth blowing s#*! up all over the place, looking like they are on missions and s#*!, it would be cool to run into them at random locations watching them wreak havoc on the location and become enemies to the player if they choose to fight them.
The new faces should apply to any random encounter or event that spawns a generic Courser whose face is determined by one of the three records noted in the mod description. This includes Coursers from mods, assuming they use the vanilla records and my mod loads second.
yeah i tested some of this last night, some look really good, some of the darker skin ones look a little red, but that also might be because i left my night mode dimmer on while i played my game.
but yeah i saw lots of coursers that were both men and women with changed faces, it was great, i have yet to check with my FCOM mod because that one also adds the ability to use the coursers.
but yeah, there are no courser spawn mods that i know of that spawn coursers across the commonwealth that i know of, if someone does know of any mod, i would appreciate a link, because i have tried to look for them and i have never seen them, and i have a bunch of mods i use for the coursers, anything from the weapons to their clothing to their abilities and stats, glad to see one that makes it so they aren't all clones of the same synth model.
I make these faces with vanilla assets only, so if you're seeing odd skin tints, it is probably due to custom textures or, as you mentioned, your dimmer.
If you were seeing female coursers, they're from another mod since I didn't make any.
I don't know of any specific mods that spawn generic coursers either. The big endgame fights between factions should really show off the new courser faces, though. There's a lot of coursers during the Institute attack on the Castle, for instance.
oh your right, i forgot it was the mod "Coursers roam the Halls" that add in the women coursers, but i think they just add on the courser coat onto generic NPC's of the game, they look like coursers but they are just normal generic synths.
I don't think it makes sense to add her face since shes a named character, it would be like adding x6-88's face to the random pool. However a small percentage of the coursers being female would fit the current balance.
The issue with female Coursers is that there aren't any female voice files for them, so if I made female Coursers, they'd have silent dialog. As I noted in the comment sections for both my "Diverse DC Security" and "Diverse Trappers" mods, though, I'm not a fan of silent NPC dialog, so I won't make silent NPCs for my mods.
That said, in one of those comment sections, I also mentioned that eventually, I'd like create some mods that add more voice types to various groups, including those that, at present, are gender specific.
You could do like that mod that adds power armored coursers to the institute halls and have them use the institute female scientist voice. It works well for that mod and i really hope you consider it for this one.
i suppose you could create your own women courser lines, make her a prototype version that uses a simulated voice, you could use this website to create the lines for that voiced NPC for free if you want. https://readloud.net/english/american/2-girl-s-voice-sally.html
You could do like that mod that adds power armored coursers to the institute halls and have them use the institute female scientist voice. It works well for that mod and i really hope you consider it for this one.
Unfortunately, it isn't that simple. In order for courser dialog to be spoken with a female voice, there needs to be courser dialog recorded with a female voice which, as we know, doesn't exist. In order to get them to use the female scientist voice, they'd have to use the female scientist dialog as well, which means their generic "banter" would be scientist banter rather than courser banter. That would be immersion breaking for me.
43 comments
I was told by two separate users that some coursers were using gen 1 synth voices. I was unable to find a fix, so I took the mod down. Since then, I have been unable to reproduce this bug. Likewise, both tenhats and Palurien1985 have attempted to reproduce the issue without success. As such, we have concluded the problem is likely a mod conflict/load order issue, so if you encounter coursers with gen 1 voices, please check your load order for conflicts. Otherwise, please update to the most recent version (v4 as of this writing), as I will not be supporting earlier versions (especially v3, which is just plain broken).
I had a look in xEdit and it showed no conflicts, just the expected modifications to the base game behavior. Any idea what might be going on?
That said, LvlSynthCourser [NPC_:001628EE] was part of Version 1, but I removed it thinking it would solve the problem since it would no longer have a direct path to the Courser face pool. Since it still happens, though, this tells me it could happen even without "Diverse Coursers" installed, because that script is a vanilla script. Removing the Gen 1/2 property from LvlSynthCourser [NPC_:001628EE] might work, but it could break the "Synth Ambush" and "Synths vs. Scavengers" random encounters, as the Gen 1 and 2 synths in those encounters use LvlSynthCourser [NPC_:001628EE] for some reason.
Regardless, I'll keep digging. Maybe I can find a workaround.
I do have two other mods that effect synths, Alias (gives them names) and Durable Relay Synths (tries to level summoned synths so they don't get toasted in 3 seconds like they usually do). Could either/both be causing problems that don't show up as conflicts in xEdit?
[EDIT] I should add Eli's Armour Compendium as well since that can change the courser uniform, I think.
Were the grenade coursers using gen 1 voices? Or courser voices? If they were using courser voices, then redirecting the grenade to the RESynths record might be the final piece of the puzzle.
I don't think Alias would affect them, but the other one might. I'll have to take a look at it and get back to you.
Edit: Durable Relay Synths does conflict. It modifies the LvlSynthTeleport record.
Eli's should be fine since it changes the outfit/armor leveled lists rather than the NPCs directly, but I'll take a look at that, too, just to be sure.
Edit #2: No conflict with Eli's AC.
At this point I can understand if you'd rather just say "your problem now" and be done with it. I appreciate your responses and the work you've put into fixing this. For what it's worth I have most of your other diverse/face fix series installed and they all work seamlessly.
Thanks.
That said, unless there's a vanilla bug buried so deep in the game files that no one has found it, the likely culprit is another mod that has altered a different record somewhere in the chain of courser data that eventually points to EncSynthCourser01Template "Institute Courser" [NPC_:000BE184]. I'd start by looking for any mods you're using that may have altered LCharSynthCourser [LVLN:001628EF] and/or LvlSynthCourser [NPC_:001628EE]. My mod doesn't touch them, but it still relies on them to send courser data to/from my modified EncSynthCourser01Template "Institute Courser" [NPC_:000BE184] record. Most (if not all) generic coursers filter through those two records, too, but since my mod doesn't touch either, fo4edit wouldn't show a conflict.
In any case, let me know if you find anything. I'll keep an eye out for any other entry points for gen 1 voices.
I'm on V4 of this mod, it is quite low in my load order, and I can't see anything that would conflict. I hope this info is helpful.
I didn't encounter any invisible coursers when trying to replicate the Gen 1 voice issue, but since this is the second time an invisible courser has been reported, I'll start testing for it specifically. Of course, I'll post my findings here.
In any case, thanks for the heads up.
I am using https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/74993 in the same save, though that plugin is much higher in my load order than your Diverse Coursers plugin. It seems unlikely, but could that be having an impact?
Either way, it's no big deal for me. I appreciate the work you put in to make Fallout 4 a better experience for all.
Regarding the relay grenade mod, it shouldn't be a problem since it uses RobCo Patcher to do its thing (which I assume is some sort of script injection).
I suppose the AiO might interest some collection curators, but I don't expect it for the standalone entries, unless we're talking about a themed collection. "Diverse Minutemen," for example, might interest someone who is putting together a Minutemen-focused collection.
Thanks for your hard work! No more same faces over and over again!
now all we need is a spawner mod that sends coursers in various locations through out the commonwealth blowing s#*! up all over the place, looking like they are on missions and s#*!, it would be cool to run into them at random locations watching them wreak havoc on the location and become enemies to the player if they choose to fight them.
but yeah i saw lots of coursers that were both men and women with changed faces, it was great, i have yet to check with my FCOM mod because that one also adds the ability to use the coursers.
but yeah, there are no courser spawn mods that i know of that spawn coursers across the commonwealth that i know of, if someone does know of any mod, i would appreciate a link, because i have tried to look for them and i have never seen them, and i have a bunch of mods i use for the coursers, anything from the weapons to their clothing to their abilities and stats, glad to see one that makes it so they aren't all clones of the same synth model.
If you were seeing female coursers, they're from another mod since I didn't make any.
I don't know of any specific mods that spawn generic coursers either. The big endgame fights between factions should really show off the new courser faces, though. There's a lot of coursers during the Institute attack on the Castle, for instance.
but hey, the more the better.
That said, in one of those comment sections, I also mentioned that eventually, I'd like create some mods that add more voice types to various groups, including those that, at present, are gender specific.
https://readloud.net/english/american/2-girl-s-voice-sally.html
Unfortunately, it isn't that simple. In order for courser dialog to be spoken with a female voice, there needs to be courser dialog recorded with a female voice which, as we know, doesn't exist. In order to get them to use the female scientist voice, they'd have to use the female scientist dialog as well, which means their generic "banter" would be scientist banter rather than courser banter. That would be immersion breaking for me.