With the exception of bug fixes, Diverse Raiders in its current form (v4) is the mod's final form, so if there are any compatibility patches users think I should consider, post your suggestions here. Please limit requests to mods that are specific to raiders, as mods that cover multiple groups and/or factions are better served if patched with the upcoming Diverse AiO.
That said, my free time for making mods will be limited for the next several months, likely remaining so until late in the year. Therefore, if anyone else wants to fulfill any patch requests that arise, feel free to do so. Just be sure to post a link here so I can maintain a list of completed patches.
Good evening! Just thought I would suggest a compatibility patch for the "Capitol Wasteland Raider Pack" by the duo GrilledTurkey, if/when you'd be able to get around to it.
Yes. In fact, the sticky post above even mentions the upcoming AiO. I just don't yet have a firm release date for it because I'm still updating and finalizing the standalone entries. Once I've done all that, I'll combine the finalized versions into the AiO. It will be glorious.
ok, cool, must've missed it, I'm old, have had 2 strokes, and my eyesight isn't the greatest anymore, sorry. This may be covered elsewhere too, but do you have plans on any compatibility patches, like for example, Orphans of the Commonwealth, Raider Children, or Better Settlers? Just asking because they seem to have been very popular and maybe still are? I personally use all three and now that I have found your series I am confident that my game will no longer have twins and triplets everywhere, LOL.
Yes, there will be patches various other mods. The aforementioned sticky post covers how that will be handled, too. In fact, I'll add "Raider Children" to the patch request list here since it is raider specific. Once "Diverse Settlers" is finalized, I'll compile a patch request list for it, too, which will include "Orphans" and "Bettler Settlers."
New to fallout modding, and apparently packing mods into ba2 format ( sometimes in some cases ) can significantly improve performance and stuttering, and when i use the whole suite of Diverse X mod, i seem to be stuttering ( no performance dip, only stuttering ) in areas with large amount of npcs covered by this pool ( only in exteriors, noticeably in raider camps ) would it be safe to pack these loose files into ba2 format or would this break the mod
Edit : After reviewing i think that this wouldn't be the case with these mods possibly, but im mainly wondering why with this mod im having slight stutters ( and gone when disabled ) in bandit camps and areas where these npcs are in large quantity Edit 2 : Found this online https://www.reddit.com/r/FalloutMods/comments/89bg0c/fo4_heavy_stutter_caused_by_mods_that_edit_npcs/
"The biggest culprit is leveled lists with too many entries. Some NPC mods have up to 200 NPCs in a single leveled list. When the game engine picks something from a leveled list, it has to examine every record in the list. This seriously slows the game down when NPCs of this type have to load. The proper way to make large lists like this is to subdivide them: have one master list with 10 entries, each of which is also a leveled list with 10 entries. Mods that just naively dump 100 records into a list will invariably cause performance problems."
Maybe this could help? Not entirely sure if this is the cause but after checking fo4edit maybe might be why im stuttering possibly
There's nothing in the "Diverse" series that requires a ba2 file, texture file, and so forth beyond the main esp. The new faces are derived entirely from vanilla assets. All I do is take a random face, change the hair color or style, add/remove dirt/grime, add/remove scars/blemishes, add/remove facial hair, and the like, until I have a new face. I'm not creating custom face morphs, textures, or anything of that nature.
Still, the stuttering is likely due to the lack of facegen data which, apparently, I'll need to create at some point even though I'm not adding anything that isn't already in the game. I was under the impression facegen data was only necessary with faces that are outside vanilla parameters, but I guess not. Toggling the "IsFacegen" flag might work, but I don't know. I suspect it only works if I create facegen data for the face in question.
That said, I've begun researching the facegen creation process, but it requires the CK and I have no appreciable experience with that program (all of my mods are Fo4edit creations). It doesn't help that, when I have tried to use the CK, it only succeeded in annoying me to the point of wanting to throw my computer out a window. So, I guess we'll see how it goes.
Just saw your second edit. If you read that entire reddit thread, the likely culprit is non-vanilla textures, which I don't use. "Better Settlers" adds nearly 300 new faces, all in one master list and two sub lists (male/female), and I've never had any stuttering issues with it. Most of the face pools with which I've been working divide a master list along male/female lines, while couple divide the male list even further. On the other hand, some don't divide the master list at all, so I think it comes down to design choice by whichever developer created the list in question.
As mentioned, though, for my mods in particular, it is likely that the lack of facegen data is the problem, as the game still has to load these "new" faces individually every time the cell loads. With luck, I'll figure out how to do it, but if not, I'll have to see if I can enlist someone with the proper skillset to lend a hand.
So, I did a test. I went to Starlight and spawned in all of the new raiders, fast traveled away, and then returned on foot. I did not experience any stuttering, so I'm back to thinking that, since my additions are using vanilla assets, facegen data isn't necessary. Here's a pic, for anyone interested:
There are roughly 80 new faces here, although a few are out of frame to the left.
In that reddit thread you listed, one of the participants mentioned that the suspect mods worked fine on their own, but when used together, the stuttering would occur. In that particular case, if memory serves, it was the combination of new NPC faces with other texture mods. If you're using any mods that greatly improve face textures, the combination with so many new faces from the Diverse series might be the culprit.
Side Note: Give Disk Cache Enabler a try and see if it helps with the stuttering. There are spots in the game that have always stuttered for me, regardless of load order, including my mod testing save, which is nearly vanilla. Since installing that mod, I haven't experienced any stuttering (although admittedly, I haven't yet done a full playthrough with a full load order while it is running, so things could change).
Im going to give this a try! I was also skeptical because downtown boston was the biggest placed i was stuttering with this mod enabled, so im going to just start disabling mods on my test LO and see what is truly clashing together with this mod, and then check out disk cache enabler too, thanks for all your help again!!
Thank you for the suggestion! This helped immensely with some testing, im starting to think that its just boston being boston with this mod enabled, but significantly improved with disk cache enabler ( but as you said i dont think this is the mods fault but something locally on my end causing this issue since you proved me wrong ) thanks again for the support and the great mod!
I know its been a bit since the topic, and still not sure if FaceGen is needed. But you could try talking to PallidaCulus, who made Facials for Everyone - Less than Fresh Faces. He has FaceGen file there, so he might know.
A couple of days ago, I made a post in the comment section of my "Cut Content NPCs - AiO" mod wherein I give a quick explanation of how I go about making these faces and why I don't believe they require face gen data. Take a gander, if you're interested.
Side note, I was testing a potential outfit expansion for Triggermen earlier today. I spawned in over 200 Triggermen (with "Diverse Triggermen" active) and didn't have any stuttering, so that's more evidence for the claims I make in aforementioned "Cut Content" comment section.
In my experience, any mod that touches leveled lists can cause stutter. I've had numerous clothing, armor, and weapons mods cause stutter regardless of game builds or computers. Just recently, I put together a new FO4 build, and after installing a new weapon mod that distributed weapons to various NPCs in the game, I started getting stutters every time NPCs spawned with those weapons. This is why I usually avoid mods that touch leveled lists. So, there might be a possibility that your stutters are caused by some other mod(s)?
Face pools are leveled lists, too. In most cases, it is a primary list that contains all faces in the pool and two sub-lists with male/female designators. I've read that when leveled lists of any sort have too many entries (each list can have up to 255 entries), the game struggles because it has to read every entry in the list. The solution, apparently, is to remove everything from the primary list and then distribute all of the faces into additional sub-lists, each of which contain fewer entries. The update I just posted for Diverse Raiders does exactly that. The primary list no longer contains any face entries and, instead, contains seven nested face pools with the 332 faces distributed evenly among them on race/gender grounds--i.e., two female lists containing 39 and 38 faces respectively, four male faces containing 54/54/54/53 faces respectively, and 1 ghoul list containing 40 ghoul faces. This should make it easier for the game to spawn raiders since it only has to select from seven initial lists, and then only a small number of entries within the selected list.
Edit: Whoops. The primary list doesn't contain the ghoul list. That's a separate list. So, six nested lists in the primary list.
Does anyone know how you would spawn npcs to check if this is working correctly? Using the regular console commands does not seem to spawn diverse npcs
The "xx" represents the number of raiders you want to spawn, so if you replace it with 15, it'll spawn 15.
Also, if you're using any other mods that alter the face pools, which ever one loads last will take precedence, preventing other raider faces from appearing.
Thank you! That worked. may I ask how you knew the apporpriate ID of 0002898b? Before I was just trying ids from the wiki, with no luck, https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Raider_(Fallout_4)
That's the Ref Id for LvlRaider, which is the primary "gateway" to the raider face pool, so when used to spawn stuff, it'll spawn from the entire face pool rather than specific faces in it. Most other groups/factions/creatures have something similar, such as LvlGunner or LvlSuperMutant. If you know your way around fo4edit, you can find them in the NPC (Actor) tab.
Hi good mod was wondering if you could make a patch for lots more settlers and enemies for some off your mods it would be much appreciated if not it's okay keep up the good work
HI! I love your work, thank you for taking the time to make these wonderful mods. Is it possible for this mod to have compatibility with Varied Raiders and A Bit Prettier Raider Faces at the same time? Also, you can do the same for your other mod "Diverse Gunners", that is, make it compatible with Varied gunners and A Bit Prettier Gunners at the same time, please (thank you for taking the trouble to read this message and forgive me bad English)
Varied Raiders and Varied Gunners are on my list of patch candidates, but both make some changes to vanilla records that I didn't touch, so I haven't yet decided how I want to handle it. I'm sure I'll come up with something when the time comes.
As for combining multiple mods with a single patch, although I haven't ruled it out, I won't be doing any of that until the "Diverse" series is complete.
Another great mod. But I use A Bit Prettier Raider Faces https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/64850, could you patch this? Also I use Railroad Synthetic Facelift 2.0 https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/75872. I wanna try your other mod too.
Just so you know, the "upgrades" those mods make to raider and Railroad faces will not affect the new faces I've added to the face pool. The faces I've added use vanilla assets, so they will retain the vanilla aesthetic.
Thanks a lot for making a patch so quickly. I have now downloaded both mods and am happy to finally be able to use them.Thank you also for this helpful information. If I could give you another KUDO, I would do it in a heartbeat.
Thankfully, the NW raider faces are easy to find. In fact, they're kept separate from each other, too, so that'll make it even easier to deal with. They're pretty solid as is, having around 15 faces each, but they still repeat a lot, so I'd like to double their faces as a starting point.
Really enjoying the diverse series, currently run your We have names series as well. I'm what you could call a collector. So having a big selection of NPCs is great. 20/20 female/male ratio (totaling 40) for each faction would be perfect. Appreciate what you're doing, looking forward to seeing these expanded upon.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. My long-term goal is to increase these face lists to a point where you're unlikely to see duplicates at any point during a typical play through. There are exceptions, such as Minutemen and regular settlers since the former draws on the latter for membership, but I'm sure you get the idea. All of this is a tall order, but I'm going to give it a shot.
Edit: Interesting tidbit regarding the NW raider faces. Disciples are mostly female, the Pack is mostly male, and the Operators have an even split. I'll likely attempt to maintain the same ratio when I increase their respective face pools.
Looking forward to it, noticed you've started to increase the face pools of your other mods. Keep it up!
Do you happen to have any plans on adding in Unique NPCs into the game? Say, Gunners? I currently use Raider Gangs Extended. Would love to see an addition to the gunner faction as well. I know you currently have a lot of your plate, but if you ever wanted to try something different I'd think the community would like it.
I had plans to create a "Recruitable Gunners" mod akin to my Recruitable Children of Atom and Recruitable Minutemen mods, but I want a mechanic where you have to pay them to recruit them (they're mercenaries, after all). Unfortunately, I have no idea how to implement that idea. Recruitable CoA's poor performance hasn't helped motivate me to make more "recruitable" mods of that sort, either.
Side note, I was incorrect about the Operators. They're mostly male, too, although I'm going to try to even the split with them, if possible.
Any particular place that Diverse Faces should go? I have all my We Have Names mods about 2/3 of the way down, except the Settler Edition which is below settlement mods (I discovered that settlement mods would give your named persons back their original "settler" names and whatnot, so had to put it after.
Just wondering about any similar circumstances for the Diverse series. For instance, it will play fine with mods that alter the armor of Raiders, such as Grease Rat Garbs (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/45813) or Forged Standalone Raider Overhaul Armor (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/63566)?
The "Diverse" mods only add faces to the pool and to the related leveled lists that draw on the pool, so they should work anywhere, and with anything, in your load order. The exception is other mods that do the same thing. For instance, WATM adds more Minutemen faces, so I made a patch allowing the faces from both mods to appear in game. Militarized Minutemen, on the other hand, doesn't alter or add to MM faces, so it doesn't require a patch. Grease Rat Garbs (which I'll be using in a couple of upcoming mods) and the Forged Standalone Armor can be used without issue.
As for the Settlement Edition not playing nice with your settlement mods, that's likely a case of the settlement mods carrying over the settlers' vanilla records which, when loaded second, override my changes. Placing my mod second allows my settler changes to function, but this can bork the settlement's previsebine data, which is even worse. Let me know which settlement mods you're using, and I'll see if I can come up with a patch.
Thanks for your work! You know that, when you have more settlements, there will be too few settler faces. Can you please make the diverse settler mod first?
I do have plans to make "Diverse Settlers," but it is neither high priority nor low priority for me since there area already several mods that increase the settler pool, including Simple Settlers 2, which was released just a few days ago. That mod adds nearly 300 settlers (including children) to the settler pool, which is comparable to the venerable "Better Settlers" mod.
That said, "Diverse Settlers" will make a larger contribution to the settler pool than that, but as a result, it is going to take time to make, especially since I've only just started sorting through faces for it. Besides, some of the other groups I'm looking at have a much greater need for an increased face pool. Railroad agents, for instance, have a whopping four dedicated faces, plus a handful of others from other lists. The Children of Atom are similarly barren, with only seven or eight faces to call on. Settlers, on the other hand, have a pool of 52, which I think is the largest list in the game.
In any event, "Diverse Settlers" will happen eventually. I'm just not entirely sure when.
Somehow, I knew the first request would be for a "Diverse BoS." They were the bane of my existence while making "We Have Names - Faction Edition." So much so that I started calling them the PoS or the SoB.
The problem with the BoS is that, unlike most other groups, they don't have a centralized pool of faces to draw from--at least, from what I could see. Instead, it seems they have multiple smaller pools for different NPC subsets within the organization. Worse is that these pools aren't clearly labeled with BoSFaceM01, BoSFaceF01, or the like. So, for the near future, I'll be sticking with the groups that have clearly labeled face pools. But that'll give me time to unravel the PoS...I mean, BoS...face descriptors.
46 comments
That said, my free time for making mods will be limited for the next several months, likely remaining so until late in the year. Therefore, if anyone else wants to fulfill any patch requests that arise, feel free to do so. Just be sure to post a link here so I can maintain a list of completed patches.
Completed Patches
None at present.
Patch Requests
A Bit Prettier Raider Faces
Varied Raiders
Capital Wasteland Raider Pack
Raider Children and Other Horrors of the Commonwealth
Edit 2 : Found this online https://www.reddit.com/r/FalloutMods/comments/89bg0c/fo4_heavy_stutter_caused_by_mods_that_edit_npcs/
"The biggest culprit is leveled lists with too many entries. Some NPC mods have up to 200 NPCs in a single leveled list. When the game engine
picks something from a leveled list, it has to examine every record in
the list. This seriously slows the game down when NPCs of this type
have to load. The proper way to make large lists like this is to
subdivide them: have one master list with 10 entries, each of which is
also a leveled list with 10 entries. Mods that just naively dump 100
records into a list will invariably cause performance problems."
Maybe this could help? Not entirely sure if this is the cause but after checking fo4edit maybe might be why im stuttering possibly
Still, the stuttering is likely due to the lack of facegen data which, apparently, I'll need to create at some point even though I'm not adding anything that isn't already in the game. I was under the impression facegen data was only necessary with faces that are outside vanilla parameters, but I guess not. Toggling the "IsFacegen" flag might work, but I don't know. I suspect it only works if I create facegen data for the face in question.
That said, I've begun researching the facegen creation process, but it requires the CK and I have no appreciable experience with that program (all of my mods are Fo4edit creations). It doesn't help that, when I have tried to use the CK, it only succeeded in annoying me to the point of wanting to throw my computer out a window. So, I guess we'll see how it goes.
As mentioned, though, for my mods in particular, it is likely that the lack of facegen data is the problem, as the game still has to load these "new" faces individually every time the cell loads. With luck, I'll figure out how to do it, but if not, I'll have to see if I can enlist someone with the proper skillset to lend a hand.
Anyway, I hope all that made sense.
There are roughly 80 new faces here, although a few are out of frame to the left.
Side Note: Give Disk Cache Enabler a try and see if it helps with the stuttering. There are spots in the game that have always stuttered for me, regardless of load order, including my mod testing save, which is nearly vanilla. Since installing that mod, I haven't experienced any stuttering (although admittedly, I haven't yet done a full playthrough with a full load order while it is running, so things could change).
Side note, I was testing a potential outfit expansion for Triggermen earlier today. I spawned in over 200 Triggermen (with "Diverse Triggermen" active) and didn't have any stuttering, so that's more evidence for the claims I make in aforementioned "Cut Content" comment section.
Edit: Whoops. The primary list doesn't contain the ghoul list. That's a separate list. So, six nested lists in the primary list.
Does anyone know how you would spawn npcs to check if this is working correctly? Using the regular console commands does not seem to spawn diverse npcs
The "xx" represents the number of raiders you want to spawn, so if you replace it with 15, it'll spawn 15.
Also, if you're using any other mods that alter the face pools, which ever one loads last will take precedence, preventing other raider faces from appearing.
As for combining multiple mods with a single patch, although I haven't ruled it out, I won't be doing any of that until the "Diverse" series is complete.
I wanna try your other mod too.
"Railroad Synthetic Facelift" doesn't need one.
Just so you know, the "upgrades" those mods make to raider and Railroad faces will not affect the new faces I've added to the face pool. The faces I've added use vanilla assets, so they will retain the vanilla aesthetic.
I have now downloaded both mods and am happy to finally be able to use them.Thank you also for this helpful information. If I could give you another KUDO, I would do it in a heartbeat.
Edit: Interesting tidbit regarding the NW raider faces. Disciples are mostly female, the Pack is mostly male, and the Operators have an even split. I'll likely attempt to maintain the same ratio when I increase their respective face pools.
Do you happen to have any plans on adding in Unique NPCs into the game? Say, Gunners? I currently use Raider Gangs Extended. Would love to see an addition to the gunner faction as well. I know you currently have a lot of your plate, but if you ever wanted to try something different I'd think the community would like it.
Side note, I was incorrect about the Operators. They're mostly male, too, although I'm going to try to even the split with them, if possible.
Just wondering about any similar circumstances for the Diverse series. For instance, it will play fine with mods that alter the armor of Raiders, such as Grease Rat Garbs (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/45813) or Forged Standalone Raider Overhaul Armor (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/63566)?
As for the Settlement Edition not playing nice with your settlement mods, that's likely a case of the settlement mods carrying over the settlers' vanilla records which, when loaded second, override my changes. Placing my mod second allows my settler changes to function, but this can bork the settlement's previsebine data, which is even worse. Let me know which settlement mods you're using, and I'll see if I can come up with a patch.
That said, "Diverse Settlers" will make a larger contribution to the settler pool than that, but as a result, it is going to take time to make, especially since I've only just started sorting through faces for it. Besides, some of the other groups I'm looking at have a much greater need for an increased face pool. Railroad agents, for instance, have a whopping four dedicated faces, plus a handful of others from other lists. The Children of Atom are similarly barren, with only seven or eight faces to call on. Settlers, on the other hand, have a pool of 52, which I think is the largest list in the game.
In any event, "Diverse Settlers" will happen eventually. I'm just not entirely sure when.
The problem with the BoS is that, unlike most other groups, they don't have a centralized pool of faces to draw from--at least, from what I could see. Instead, it seems they have multiple smaller pools for different NPC subsets within the organization. Worse is that these pools aren't clearly labeled with BoSFaceM01, BoSFaceF01, or the like. So, for the near future, I'll be sticking with the groups that have clearly labeled face pools. But that'll give me time to unravel the PoS...I mean, BoS...face descriptors.