For now it's just the one quest, but if you find something else, please share and I'll look into it!
As of version 1.1.0: You should be able to now recruit both Institute and the Railroad as potential allies against the Gunners assuming you did things right in the Valkyrie Quest.
For some reason doesn't work with me, I don't know if I need the full depravity, oar and valkyrie mods with the patches for it to work with sim settlements. No other mods when I tested, help is appreciated and welcome.
the combination of SS2 SS2 Chapter 2 and chapter 3 with outcasts and remnants and project valkyrie with its immersion patches. I even tested it with no other mods than the dependencies aka workshop framework for SS2. Just gives me a black screen of death
I used the most recent version, idk what I did wrong since I use vortex and the mod manager download. idk if its possibly the SS2 chapter 3 that could be causing troubles or what
well, after some testing, I can see that its probably not your patches, its most likely project valkyrie and outcasts and remnants for some reason. Sorry to bother you lol
Thanks for these. It's nice being able to complete SS2 - Chapter 3 without being effectively forced into the vanilla game's dumb non-choice of "Blow up the Institute and leave a giant, freshly radioactive crater in the middle of Cambridge, also nuking all of that tech that could help the Commonwealth (you know, that thing your whole faction in SS2 is all about?)" or "Join the most cartoonishly evil faction in the game without blinking." I haven't gotten to this point in Chapter 3 yet, I just read the wiki. While I'd love to be able to get all four factions to help, I can easily head-canon that two of them have other problems on their hands. Sidenote, you can also use Subversion to reform the Institute and pacify the other factions against one another (I actually prefer this method in some playthroughs, as I don't always want to turn the Institute into a giant club, or I just don't want the cell to be hijacked). This might work as a way to get the Institute and Brotherhood to play nice (I don't know if the Maxson from that mod is a clone or an edit of the original. Would have to check that. Just checked. That Maxson is also a "clone." But I also don't know if that mod still uses the necessary quest to promote you to Sentinel, or if it's just dialogue It doesn't. So there's effectively no way to get the Brotherhood and Institute at the same time).
Seems to me that the only way to mod it so you can get all four factions would be to introduce a condition to the Minutemen quest "Defend the Castle" so the radiant versions can trigger earlier, and you save the place from raiders, super mutants, whatever. Far as I know, the quest ID is the same, regardless of who attacks. It's a quest stage. So it'd require making it so Stage 10 of the quest can happen before Stages 15 or 16, which are the starts specific to the Brotherhood and Institute. As for the Brotherhood, one could maybe patch it so replacing Maxson,with Sarah (or synth Maxson if you use Subversion), A New Dawn automatically starts and completes, like a bunch of other quests do when you get to certain points in the Thuggy mods? Maybe introduce a new stage to it that triggers when you finish that portion of PV, then completes the quest immediately.
That said, I don't know how that might affect SS2 on the back end. I don't know if there's any dialogue in SS2 that refers to your actions in getting the factions you secure to help you. But those are the ideas I could think of.
Apparently SS2 chapter 3 hijacks Station Olivia. I haven't progressed that far to test it but noticed the hijacked cell mentioned in the latest patch notes for SS2. I know that PV also uses Olivia too. Thought it was worth mentioning.
but PV only uses Olivia for the robot and the LP codes if u are in the right time frame there should not be a problem as th erobot does not apear ones that stage is completed and then olivia is basicly vanila and the SS2 quest that sends u there only places the box there in Ch1 i have not progressed that far in Ch3 to find out wat it does in Ch3!
I have a question about how this mod works in relation to SS2 Chapter 3 content. This post will contain some spoilers, so I'll try to hide it if possible.
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So during PV, as part of reforming the Institute, completing "The Revolution Will not be Televised" doesn't trigger the normal "kicked out of the Institute" flag. That means "Defend the Castle" mission never starts, since you never become an enemy of the Institute. Certain other quest flags are set as if the Institute was nuked, such as the Railroad and BoS dialogues.
The issue I'm concerned with is that during SS2 Ch3, a requirement to getting the Minutemen as an ally is having completed the "Defend the Castle" mission. I'm not sure what effect it has on the Railroad and BoS if you normally nuke the Institute using the Minutemen, because on my playthrough of Ch3 I didn't nuke the Institute until I was already finished with Ch3. But Ch3's listed requirements for getting the Railroad or BoS allies for the final fight require you to complete their own version of destroying the Institute. So right now, it sounds like it's impossible to get all 3 (MM, RR, and BOS) as allies for the Ch3 final Gunner battle.
Has anyone tested PV mod out to see if it blocks you from getting any of the main factions as allies? Because from the wiki description, every ally faction requires you to have fully completed their quests (excluding the MM, which only requires "Defend the Castle" being complete).
If SS2 Ch3 won't allow you to recruit any of those factions as allies due to reforming the Institute, would it be possible to add that feature as part of this mod?
So had a look at that quest and something that does confuse me a little. Will do it as spoiler just in case.
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Was told that it's possible to get all 4 factions to help you, yet by finishing "Defend the Castle" it looks like you have to make enemy with all the other factions. So sounds like it should be possible to do in some way if it's true that you can make everyone friendlies.
Should be fixable regardless, just need to be 100% on what conditions needs to be met.
Getting the "Defend the Castle" doesn't require becoming enemies with all other factions. There are two "triggers" to start the quest: 1) Simply be kicked out of the Institute while working with the Minutemen, such as killing one of the department heads (Ayo, etc). or 2) If you have become an enemy of the BoS.
Getting kicked out of the Institute while working with the Minutemen will start "Form Ranks", which requires you to get 8 settlements to be strong enough to take on the Institute. If you already have 8 or more settlements, talking to Preston, Ronnie, or listening to the radio will actually skip this quest and jump straight to "Defend the Castle".
In regards to SS2 Ch3 and the gaining of faction allies, I don't see how it's possible currently to get all 4 factions. As of the current build, each faction requires a specific condition to be met. The MM only require "Defend the Castle" to be finished. But the RR, BoS, and Institute will require you to fully complete their version of the main story to unlock them. Since you can't "complete" every version of the ending, it pretty much comes down to only one being available. It's possible to get both the MM and BoS I guess, if you complete "Defend the Castle" but then use the BoS for the actual Institute assault. But once you are using PV, none of that is possible because the Institute is never nuked.
It might be possible to "force skip" through "Defend the Castle" using a mod such as yours. Find the correct quest stages, and script the quest to start and then immediately complete. The problem there is that completion of "Defend the Castle" will also automatically fail several other quests.
That might not be such a bad thing, because many of those quests that are failed are quests you'll never see anyway if you're using PV. Just need to figure out how to make it all blend smoothly while not being flagged as enemy of the Institute.
Personally, I don't care about getting multiple factions as allies in SS2 Ch3. As long as you complete the other SS2 faction quests, you only "need" one of the main factions for the final battle. But due to PV, and the SS2 requirements for each faction, right now it would be impossible to gain any of the main factions because their quest requirements are blocked by reforming the Institute.
But since you're supposed to be able to get all 4 factions to join you, it should be doable without meeting either condition for "Defend the Castle". In theory that is. SS2 team has confirmed that there is a "secret ending" or similar that lets you get all 4 to join you. I honestly dunno what it is though.
But outside that. Do you know if there is any quest after this one that you start with the Minutemen? One could add that as an alternative condition to bypass this issue.
As soon as "Defend the Castle" is completed, the next quest depends on a condition. If you already have 8 settlements, you should be directed to speak with Preston about getting into the Institute, starting "Nuclear Option (Minutemen)" quest. If you don't have 8 settlements already, it starts "Form Ranks" which is simply having you acquire 8 settlements.
The more I look into it, the trickier this is starting to look. Completion of "Defend the Castle" is doing a LOT of stuff in the background, like auto-failing a ton of quests if they haven't already been finished. Because PV never flags you as "kicked out of the Institute" if you do that quest correctly, I don't know what effect it would have on PV and the Reformed Institute questline if "Defend the Castle" was triggered as completed.
In regards to the SS2 Ch3 content:
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I don't see how it's currently possible to get all 4 factions as allies for the final battle. According the their wiki, there are very specific conditions that must be met in order to get a faction as an ally.
Brotherhood of Steel - completed A New Dawn
Railroad - completed The Nuclear Options (Railroad)
Institute - completed Nuclear Family
Minutemen - completed Defend The Castle
As you can see, besides the Minutemen, all other factions have a hard requirement of fully completing their questlines. That means RR and BoS must destroy the Institute and the opposing faction. If siding with the Institute, that means destroying the RR and BoS. So technically, based on those requirements, it should be 100% impossible to recruit more than one of those factions as an ally.
Because the Minutemen only require completing "Defend the Castle", in theory you should be able to still nuke the Institute by siding with the RR or BoS, and that would allow you to gain 2 allies (MM/RR or MM/BoS). In my playthrough, I sided with the Minutemen, but I didn't destroy the Institute until after Chapter 3 was finished. Using the MM means the RR and BoS remain alive, only the Institute is nuked. But that's why I liked playing PV, it meant I could keep the Institute "alive", just a change in staffing.
Playing the Depravity/OaR/PV series worked fine with SS2 Ch1, but Ch2 killed the ability to complete the DC quests because of Gunner's Plaza conflicts. It looks like you now have a fix for that, which is why I'm going to give it a try running through the game again with Thuggy's mods active and SS2 active. But Ch3's final quests and the ally options are going to conflict with PV, as of now I assume PV will fully block the ability to gain any of the 4 main factions as an ally.
I know it's kind of a mess, mostly because Ch3 was released fairly recently and most people took some time to finish it before seeing the possible conflicts it could have with the Thuggy mods. SS2 Ch2 introduced conflicts with Depravity that made you have to choose between finishing one mod's quests or the other, couldn't be both without a mod. Now Ch3 is introducing similar conflicts, only this time with PV. As of now, even with your mod, you're forced to choose between completing one mod or another. Hopefully you can figure out a way to make them work together.
Will have to dig into this and hopefully be able to figure something out. I suppose the easiest approach is to potentially hijack parts of the Defend The Castle quest and force it to finish so SS2 will detect things.
Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the Fo4 tools to be able to look at and understand the details of quest conditions/flags yet. I had looked into all of the changes Depravity makes to Gunner's Plaza, and kind of worked out what was going on there, but I lacked the knowledge to create a mod that reverts/stops those changes and allows Depravity and SS2 to work together. It's good that someone (you) finally took the time to look into it and release a working mod to let us play those two mods together without major conflicts.
But the vanilla quests that do a lot in the background, like auto-failing certain other quests or force changing a faction standing, those are probably a lot harder to work with when it comes to creating mods that adjust them.
I'm wondering if it would be easier to tweak the SS2 quests, instead of the vanilla quests?
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Trying to get "Defend the Castle" to flag as completed might be more trouble than it's worth, and that only helps you gain one ally for Ch3. What if you instead could do something to adjust the SS2 files? Make it so that if you complete the Reformed Institute questline in PV first and have friendly standing with the other factions, Ch3 could see that and allow you to gain those factions as allies? Sort of like bypassing Ch3's faction alliance requirements, so instead of having to complete their own individual questlines, you just need to complete the reformed institute stuff?
Then you shouldn't need to touch any of the vanilla quests, just the SS2 stuff. After having finished SS2 Ch3, it looks like they still plan to release another chapter eventually. I'm not sure what impact it will having on the next chapter if you go messing with the final quest, but that can be figured out later. I'm guessing it'll be at least a few months before another chapter is worked on, maybe several months before it's released. I think this could be a great solution for now.
So I had an idea that could work, but would essentially need an update in SS2 itself. Reached out to see if they would consider adding "switches" that we could switch to mark said requirements as meet.
Then all that has to be done here is find the appropriate condition, meet it and flip the switch.
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I suppose the condition that could be made is essentially whenever you're in a position that "Defend the Castle" can no longer be done. Which I suppose is essentially what you suggested there.
Finally having time to work on updating these patches for the Factions.
That said, so far I noticed that Project Valkyrie already sets the needed stage for the Minutemen part and was able to play that part without issues, without needing to patch anything. Still will need to patch for the other factions though.
So completing "The Revolution Will not be Televised" in PV actually flags the quest "Defend the Castle" as having been completed as well? I know some of that dialogue comes up during the quest while speaking with Preston, but since you don't actually defend the castle, I assumed that quest doesn't get flagged as done.
I finished up all of the OaR/Dep/PV content before starting Ch 2, as you suggest in the mod description. I'm currently in the early stages of Ch 3 again, having set up the first outpost. I did notice a "conflict" during Ch 2 that could be an issue for some people.
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During the early stages of Ch 2, just before you take over the plaza, the SS2 quest points you to ask some of the factions for help. Because I had finished PV, all of the main factions were showing up as options. But I wasn't getting objective markers for either the Institute or BoS, most likely because the vanilla leaders of those factions were modified by PV.
I tracked down Maxon in Club Snuggle but he didn't have the objective marker on him, and talking to him didn't work. I'm assuming that's because the Maxon that's roaming around after PV isn't the "original" Maxon, it's a clone? So the original Maxon might have been disabled, or moved to a hidden cell?
I'm also assuming that Father is sitting in a cell out in the glowing sea, and I'd have to travel out there to speak with him. I didn't take the time to go out there and look, so I'm not sure if there is a similar issue as with Maxon.
Due to that conflict, I was unable to get assistance from the Institute or BoS. It didn't change the outcome of the quest, but maybe some people would still like to recruit all factions. And I'm not sure how the above-mentioned conflict will affect the end of Ch 3, since Ch 3 often uses "envoys" instead of the main faction NPCs.
Yeah, the Chapter 2 stuff is not working and I'm looking into making that compatible as well.
BoS will be a bit more complicated as they refer to a different leader, but Institute assumes you're leader regardless of how you reach that point, so plan to patch for that approach as well, which seems simple enough for Ch3, but dunno about Ch2 yet.
Haven't considered Minutemen for Chapter 2 yet, but at least it seems to be fine for Chapter 3 so far.
Things are still "WIP" and currently checking out "what makes what tick" essentially.
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As for Father. This mod is compatible with Valkyrie, btw. https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/35198
Honestly, I don't think it's possible to really make it all compatible. The vanilla game isn't set up to work with those factions being friendly, and neither is SS2 since most of it is based on the vanilla system. If you try to make Ch 2 "compatible" with Dep/PV, it would probably require modifying the entire SS2 setup. At least in regards to having factions that are normally hostile towards each other showing up and not fighting each other.
You'd have to make a series of checks to see how far along the player has progressed into Dep/PV, and make certain factions "friendly" to one another to avoid them fighting. And you'd also have to probably toggle extra dialogue that acknowledges those factions helping, since the original SS2 Ch2 system isn't designed for it (at least not currently). Sounds like more trouble than it's worth, at least for the Ch2 bit.
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I just started "Under One Banner" in Ch3 again, and sure enough the Minutemen seem to be added already as a faction I've assisted even though I didn't actually complete "Defend the Castle". But the other 3 factions are showing up as optional, but it's impossible to add any of them because of the Ch3 ally requirements. The only way to "fix" the incompatibility is to adjust the Ch3 ally requirements like you suggested before. And even then, I don't know how Ch3's system would react. Do they actually have code and dialogue in place that would allow all of the main factions to be allied? Considering it's not actually possible under the vanilla system, I'd assume the SS2 team didn't make their system work like that. Adding multiple factions might even break the Ch3 quest or final battle, would require a bit of testing.
Although it might still work, considering the final bits of Ch3 involve "envoys" coming to the HQ and not the actual faction leaders. As long as the correct requirements are flagged as completed, it might still work. Just need to confirm that certain factions won't go hostile to the other factions during the final battle.
If you change the MQComplete global value to 1 I think all 3 actually turns out recruitable. Problem is that they will be, regardless of your "status" with them. As it seems to check for "Main Quest Complete" and then exclude the destroyed factions. This means...
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you're now able to recruit "Team Maxson" even with Sarah in charge. So obviously not a perfect solution
My plan is to create some/a management quest(s) that unlocks things at the appropriate time, bypassing the original check.
As for Chapter 2 for Allies you can get support from when doing the GNN quest. - Institute: Player is Institute Director (Nuclear Family) (from wiki)
So in theory you should be able to get help from the Institute even for that quest. Just need to do the same check fix here so that it unlocks for Reformed rather than Nuclear Family. Just dunno yet where that check is located, so will be after the Ch3 is done.
I guess my question is: Will the SS2 Ch3 quest dialogue and stages work correctly if adding in the additional factions? Since it's not technically possible to obtain all factions through the vanilla content, I'm not sure if their quest is setup to work properly in a circumstance like this.
Regarding the Ch2 "War is Good for Business" quest:
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Note that for each faction, there are different levels of support they will provide based on how far you have progressed down their path. As long as you've completed all of the Thuggy main content and reformed the Institute, you should have met and befriended all of the main factions. So technically, you should be able to get at least minimal assistance from all factions. I think that's what the SS2 team was talking about when they say it's possible to "get all allies at once". But if only using the vanilla and SS2 content, it should be impossible to get max support from all factions due to the requirements.
The current conflict is that regardless of which level of support you qualify for, once you've finished PV it blocks normal access to two of the faction leaders: BoS and Institute. I zapped Father with the pistol, so he should be in prison with the others. But Maxon I think is "replaced" with a different NPC that roams around to the different areas. The "original" Maxon is probably still on the ship's bridge, and simply disabled. So the NPC's that the SS2 Ch2 quest is pointing you to is unreachable. I'm not sure how to correct the Ch2 conflict for the HQ fight, without having to mess around with the vanilla NPC that the Thuggy quests altered. Might be as simple as "enable/disable" during their portion of the quest, but like you said it probably won't make much sense immersion-wise to speak to people that should no longer be faction leaders.
Regarding the Ch3 conflict, so far it might work to simply change the ally requirements. Again, as long as you've finished reforming the Institute, that should in theory be an immersive alternative to the original requirements.
I did notice an issue with Ch3 though, but I'll make sure it's brought up in the Depravity patch comments since that's the associated mod.
SS2 supposedly made it possible to ally all 4 factions for Chapter 3. No idea how though.
That said, doing the reform you also have to do the BoS part first, which will lock you out of the vanilla BoS faction as potential faction as afaik you don't get the required rank.
And doing the alternative BoS will require a "new faction," rather than unlocking BoS as the leader is different, and if you saw the trailer, their battlecry would be too.
For now I plan to patch to unlock the Institute and the Railroad. I've figured out how, just have to do the scripting. The alternative BoS will be for another day.
As far as infighting goes, I'm fairly confident Valkyrie fixed that when they set all 4 factions as allies, or there would be a bunch more mods that'd need patching.
Chapter 2, highest help seem to follow same conditions as Chapter 3. But different quests for it, so will have to do more research before I can look into patching that.
Regarding the updated patch while "Under One Banner" is already running:
After installing the patch, the optional objectives to gain help from the Railroad and Institute were completed, and the optional for the BoS was failed. I didn't get any message that the new envoys were waiting at HQ. I went to HQ and checked the conference room, nobody there. I went to Home Plate and slept for 3 days, still no message to meet with the new envoys.
If the quest was already running but not yet finished, does it just skip the meeting dialogue with the Institute and Railroad? Or do I just need to wait a while longer?
I tried that approach. They ended up showing up for me, but the check for them to spawn seems finicky at times and would take some time. Did you try "save and reload" as they have "on save load" event in the script that should rerun things.
I never got a message on the HQ radio that anyone was waiting for me. And the quest log shows the "meet with envoy" objective as already completed, as well as the optionals to assist the Railroad and Institute as being completed.
But while working on the "Gunner's Daughter" quest, I decided to stop by the meeting room out of curiosity before heading out. Sure enough, X6 and the Institute envoy were standing there waiting for me. I chatted with them, got them as an ally, and it asked me to see the next person. Then the RR was up, I added them as an ally as well, and that was it.
Honestly, I can't remember if Ron or Wise show up during the envoy meetings, or if that's later on. I do know that this time around I had a slightly different dialogue with Wise in 75, and didn't specifically get the dialogue tree asking him to join me (because he didn't suspect me of lying, and just let me in). So I'm not sure if Wise will still come up as an ally option later.
But honestly, without Wise and The Ron (DC) joining as allies this time around, by adding in the Railroad and Institute, in addition to all of the other possible allies, I should still have more than enough for the final battle to go smoothly.
Still, I'm hoping Wise and Ron are still going to show up as allies later. Not only because the story works better that way and there's some good dialogue, but it might benefit me later if SS2 eventually adds in a Chapter 4.
Other than a few minor issues so far, your quest patches are working great. I've already seen the cell instance toggle in action, which worked smoothly (and a little easier than having to remember to toggle the door with the SS2 intercom first). I'm hoping the SS2 team is willing to work with you on setting up those ally requirement toggles to make your mod and others more easily capable of creating compatibility patches. But either way, I think you'll figure out a working fix. Your effort is greatly appreciated, it's nice to finally be able to use these mods together.
Yeah, it seems to have some kind of check to see if things have been updated, as in a new envoy unlocked.
So the way I had to do it is that I had to unlock the factions after the quest started to make sure they run at the right times, but the problem I had was that I couldn't find out how to trigger the "check" for factions. Saving and loading often seemed to trigger it amongst other, but in the end they would show up, so figured it was "good enough" there.
The Objectives you got for the factions trigger if you have 1) not finished the game (MQComplete global != 0) 2) If you've meet the factions. 3) destroyed them. So in your case it seemed you had all the 3 objectives, which happened as well on one of the saves I tested on.
Completed it for Railroad and Institute if you trigger the unlocks. I set the BoS to failed as BoS and Valkyrie BoS faction is two different factions in my eyes. So doing this path you can no longer unlock the "vanilla BoS". Realized now that I forgot to add a fail for Railroad depending on how you play out the Valkyrie Quest.
I had no issues getting Wise to show up though. But then again, that might be related to Depravity? Will comment regarding those two more over there.
And for the Cell Toggle, which would be for Outcasts right? As I think I made the quest I found here work form both cells as it was just a terminal. But yeah like how that came out, and the main reason I made it, is so you don't have to keep track of things yourself. The mod does it for you :D
As for the toggles, they are not able to provide more than what have already been done, which lead me to being able to unlock the scenes, as it would require them to rebuild the whole check system from scratch, which is too much work, especially since it can still be done with the current system.
Yeah, getting the other 2 factions added was as simple as heading back to the meeting room and talking to them. Since the game never gave me any kind of a notice, is there a way to have your mod include some sort of pop-up message when they do show up? As a "just in case" check to make sure people don't miss it. I have a feeling the issue will only come up for people that install your mod/patch half-way through that quest like I did.
And yeah, I fully understand why you'd want to avoid adding the BoS due to the Thuggy changes. It would look real odd if Maxson or Kells showed up with an envoy, since Maxon is out looking for condoms and Kells is dead. There's only so much you can patch out when mods make serious changes to the vanilla characters or story.
Regarding Wise as an ally, there's no quest conflict there. I simply chose the wrong dialogue path during the SS2 quest, and never got the option to invite him to work for me. I wasn't thinking about it at the time, and when I finally did notice the mistake it was way too late to go back and change it. Lesson learned, need to make sure I choose the correct options next time. But the reality is, it had no negative impact on the quest. Just a different person, and a little less unique dialogue.
The "cell toggle" came up as I was entering Vault 75 for OaR's "Excess Baggage" quest.I had already cleared out the vault pre-Ch2, and been through it again during the beginning of Ch2. I saw the intercom on the wall next to the door, and already knew the cell was hijacked, but I forgot to activate the intercom to swap the doors out. As soon as I went in the door, your message popped up and asked if I wanted to be taken to the correct non-SS2 cell. Saved me from having to exit the vault, toggle the intercom hijack feature, and go back in.
Pretty sure that was the only time the cell warning came up. Your patch fixed the conflict with PV and the hospital, so that didn't even require a hijack toggle.
The problem with the popup message idea is that I couldn't find the proper way to trigger the "update" to make sure they showed up. It'll refresh, but not right away, as you noticed when trying to go there initially.
I'll circle back to take another look down the line, but can't promise I'll be able to improve it much further.
Since by the looks of it, it already runs on a timer, checking if an Ally quest is running (which we start two) and then it should trigger the radio stuff. It should all be there and in theory "just work".
Totally understandable. As long as people installing this mod understand that if it's installed AFTER that quest has already started and they already met some of the envoys, they are probably not going to get another message informing them there are others waiting. They'll have to head there on their own and take a look. But I'm assuming most people using this mod are going to be doing so on a fresh game, in which case the issue won't exist.
Definitely appreciate the time you've put into these mods. Once the Depravity conflict with The Ron can be resolved, that pretty much clears up any conflicts between the Thuggy mods and SS2. At that point, the SS2 team should be able to remove the Thuggy mods from the incompatible list, and provide links to your mods as suitable compatibility options.
in a earlyer run thru i had PV at the point that i had already entered the institute and done some quests at pridwyn but not yet taken over the BOS or initiated the reform institute effect was i had both the BOS and institute as support troops ! i think that depends strongly at wich point u are with PV on those factions!
I read that in project valkyrie there's a option to take Quincy, but at the same time, SS2 questline leads to the final attack on gunners on Quincy, i guess this is a possible future conflict
From what I recall you don't take Quincy you just take Liberty Prime there to clear the gunners out for the quest where you test the controller for Prime. After that you leave Quincy alone. None of your group try to occupy it or anything as far as I know
there is a dlc tha tmight screw things up in Quincy more when u collect the cavalery paint power armor u station a bunch of troops there and those buggers a stay long and b have a fairly decent armory stash!
SS2's chapter 3 Quest "Led by Example" has a space that is taken up by The Outcasts mod, I don't remember what the original location was, but in Outcasts its the Raider Emporium and in SS2 Chapter its called "Robco HQ". Honestly if there was a way to use SS2's ability to switch between to instances through the mods, maybe 3 if including vanilla, it could work, but otherwise SS2's story totally conflicts with Outcasts.
edit, i didn't enable the plugin, i did it, now mas bay has doors, i have smiles, you have endorsement. everyone is happy. except lorenzo.
hi, thanks for this. it didnt work for me, can you explain a little how it's supposed to work so i can try to sort it? i installed via vortex, loaded a save where i'm in parsons, finished the lorenzo story and then started with valkerie... went to the hospitals, pipboy says i need to go check out mass bay but it doesnt have a front door, and valkerie doesnt have anything useful to say in the way of alternatives... i dont know if your fix is supposed to mean skipping mass bay, or if it fixes it so i can go in, or what? and so i can't reason my way around the issue happy to talk privately if you dont want to add potential spoilers or something?
48 comments
As of version 1.1.0:
You should be able to now recruit both Institute and the Railroad as potential allies against the Gunners assuming you did things right in the Valkyrie Quest.
Could try reinstalling it I suppose.
Do make sure that you have the "load loose files" enabled and stuff like that.
Could be as simple as some busted ini setting.
I don't know if the Maxson from that mod is a clone or an edit of the original. Would have to check that.Just checked. That Maxson is also a "clone."But I also don't know if that mod still uses the necessary quest to promote you to Sentinel, or if it's just dialogueIt doesn't. So there's effectively no way to get the Brotherhood and Institute at the same time).Seems to me that the only way to mod it so you can get all four factions would be to introduce a condition to the Minutemen quest "Defend the Castle" so the radiant versions can trigger earlier, and you save the place from raiders, super mutants, whatever. Far as I know, the quest ID is the same, regardless of who attacks. It's a quest stage. So it'd require making it so Stage 10 of the quest can happen before Stages 15 or 16, which are the starts specific to the Brotherhood and Institute. As for the Brotherhood, one could maybe patch it so replacing Maxson,with Sarah (or synth Maxson if you use Subversion), A New Dawn automatically starts and completes, like a bunch of other quests do when you get to certain points in the Thuggy mods? Maybe introduce a new stage to it that triggers when you finish that portion of PV, then completes the quest immediately.
That said, I don't know how that might affect SS2 on the back end. I don't know if there's any dialogue in SS2 that refers to your actions in getting the factions you secure to help you. But those are the ideas I could think of.
The issue I'm concerned with is that during SS2 Ch3, a requirement to getting the Minutemen as an ally is having completed the "Defend the Castle" mission. I'm not sure what effect it has on the Railroad and BoS if you normally nuke the Institute using the Minutemen, because on my playthrough of Ch3 I didn't nuke the Institute until I was already finished with Ch3. But Ch3's listed requirements for getting the Railroad or BoS allies for the final fight require you to complete their own version of destroying the Institute. So right now, it sounds like it's impossible to get all 3 (MM, RR, and BOS) as allies for the Ch3 final Gunner battle.
Has anyone tested PV mod out to see if it blocks you from getting any of the main factions as allies? Because from the wiki description, every ally faction requires you to have fully completed their quests (excluding the MM, which only requires "Defend the Castle" being complete).
If SS2 Ch3 won't allow you to recruit any of those factions as allies due to reforming the Institute, would it be possible to add that feature as part of this mod?
Should be fixable regardless, just need to be 100% on what conditions needs to be met.
Getting kicked out of the Institute while working with the Minutemen will start "Form Ranks", which requires you to get 8 settlements to be strong enough to take on the Institute. If you already have 8 or more settlements, talking to Preston, Ronnie, or listening to the radio will actually skip this quest and jump straight to "Defend the Castle".
In regards to SS2 Ch3 and the gaining of faction allies, I don't see how it's possible currently to get all 4 factions. As of the current build, each faction requires a specific condition to be met. The MM only require "Defend the Castle" to be finished. But the RR, BoS, and Institute will require you to fully complete their version of the main story to unlock them. Since you can't "complete" every version of the ending, it pretty much comes down to only one being available. It's possible to get both the MM and BoS I guess, if you complete "Defend the Castle" but then use the BoS for the actual Institute assault. But once you are using PV, none of that is possible because the Institute is never nuked.
It might be possible to "force skip" through "Defend the Castle" using a mod such as yours. Find the correct quest stages, and script the quest to start and then immediately complete. The problem there is that completion of "Defend the Castle" will also automatically fail several other quests.
That might not be such a bad thing, because many of those quests that are failed are quests you'll never see anyway if you're using PV. Just need to figure out how to make it all blend smoothly while not being flagged as enemy of the Institute.
Personally, I don't care about getting multiple factions as allies in SS2 Ch3. As long as you complete the other SS2 faction quests, you only "need" one of the main factions for the final battle. But due to PV, and the SS2 requirements for each faction, right now it would be impossible to gain any of the main factions because their quest requirements are blocked by reforming the Institute.
But outside that. Do you know if there is any quest after this one that you start with the Minutemen? One could add that as an alternative condition to bypass this issue.
The more I look into it, the trickier this is starting to look. Completion of "Defend the Castle" is doing a LOT of stuff in the background, like auto-failing a ton of quests if they haven't already been finished. Because PV never flags you as "kicked out of the Institute" if you do that quest correctly, I don't know what effect it would have on PV and the Reformed Institute questline if "Defend the Castle" was triggered as completed.
In regards to the SS2 Ch3 content:
As you can see, besides the Minutemen, all other factions have a hard requirement of fully completing their questlines. That means RR and BoS must destroy the Institute and the opposing faction. If siding with the Institute, that means destroying the RR and BoS. So technically, based on those requirements, it should be 100% impossible to recruit more than one of those factions as an ally.
Because the Minutemen only require completing "Defend the Castle", in theory you should be able to still nuke the Institute by siding with the RR or BoS, and that would allow you to gain 2 allies (MM/RR or MM/BoS). In my playthrough, I sided with the Minutemen, but I didn't destroy the Institute until after Chapter 3 was finished. Using the MM means the RR and BoS remain alive, only the Institute is nuked. But that's why I liked playing PV, it meant I could keep the Institute "alive", just a change in staffing.
Playing the Depravity/OaR/PV series worked fine with SS2 Ch1, but Ch2 killed the ability to complete the DC quests because of Gunner's Plaza conflicts. It looks like you now have a fix for that, which is why I'm going to give it a try running through the game again with Thuggy's mods active and SS2 active. But Ch3's final quests and the ally options are going to conflict with PV, as of now I assume PV will fully block the ability to gain any of the 4 main factions as an ally.
I know it's kind of a mess, mostly because Ch3 was released fairly recently and most people took some time to finish it before seeing the possible conflicts it could have with the Thuggy mods. SS2 Ch2 introduced conflicts with Depravity that made you have to choose between finishing one mod's quests or the other, couldn't be both without a mod. Now Ch3 is introducing similar conflicts, only this time with PV. As of now, even with your mod, you're forced to choose between completing one mod or another. Hopefully you can figure out a way to make them work together.
But gotta be a better way though :D
But the vanilla quests that do a lot in the background, like auto-failing certain other quests or force changing a faction standing, those are probably a lot harder to work with when it comes to creating mods that adjust them.
I'm wondering if it would be easier to tweak the SS2 quests, instead of the vanilla quests?
Then you shouldn't need to touch any of the vanilla quests, just the SS2 stuff. After having finished SS2 Ch3, it looks like they still plan to release another chapter eventually. I'm not sure what impact it will having on the next chapter if you go messing with the final quest, but that can be figured out later. I'm guessing it'll be at least a few months before another chapter is worked on, maybe several months before it's released. I think this could be a great solution for now.
Then all that has to be done here is find the appropriate condition, meet it and flip the switch.
That said, so far I noticed that Project Valkyrie already sets the needed stage for the Minutemen part and was able to play that part without issues, without needing to patch anything. Still will need to patch for the other factions though.
I finished up all of the OaR/Dep/PV content before starting Ch 2, as you suggest in the mod description. I'm currently in the early stages of Ch 3 again, having set up the first outpost. I did notice a "conflict" during Ch 2 that could be an issue for some people.
I tracked down Maxon in Club Snuggle but he didn't have the objective marker on him, and talking to him didn't work. I'm assuming that's because the Maxon that's roaming around after PV isn't the "original" Maxon, it's a clone? So the original Maxon might have been disabled, or moved to a hidden cell?
I'm also assuming that Father is sitting in a cell out in the glowing sea, and I'd have to travel out there to speak with him. I didn't take the time to go out there and look, so I'm not sure if there is a similar issue as with Maxon.
Due to that conflict, I was unable to get assistance from the Institute or BoS. It didn't change the outcome of the quest, but maybe some people would still like to recruit all factions. And I'm not sure how the above-mentioned conflict will affect the end of Ch 3, since Ch 3 often uses "envoys" instead of the main faction NPCs.
BoS will be a bit more complicated as they refer to a different leader, but Institute assumes you're leader regardless of how you reach that point, so plan to patch for that approach as well, which seems simple enough for Ch3, but dunno about Ch2 yet.
Haven't considered Minutemen for Chapter 2 yet, but at least it seems to be fine for Chapter 3 so far.
Things are still "WIP" and currently checking out "what makes what tick" essentially.
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/35198
You'd have to make a series of checks to see how far along the player has progressed into Dep/PV, and make certain factions "friendly" to one another to avoid them fighting. And you'd also have to probably toggle extra dialogue that acknowledges those factions helping, since the original SS2 Ch2 system isn't designed for it (at least not currently). Sounds like more trouble than it's worth, at least for the Ch2 bit.
Although it might still work, considering the final bits of Ch3 involve "envoys" coming to the HQ and not the actual faction leaders. As long as the correct requirements are flagged as completed, it might still work. Just need to confirm that certain factions won't go hostile to the other factions during the final battle.
My plan is to create some/a management quest(s) that unlocks things at the appropriate time, bypassing the original check.
As for Chapter 2 for Allies you can get support from when doing the GNN quest.
- Institute: Player is Institute Director (Nuclear Family) (from wiki)
So in theory you should be able to get help from the Institute even for that quest. Just need to do the same check fix here so that it unlocks for Reformed rather than Nuclear Family. Just dunno yet where that check is located, so will be after the Ch3 is done.
Regarding the Ch2 "War is Good for Business" quest:
The current conflict is that regardless of which level of support you qualify for, once you've finished PV it blocks normal access to two of the faction leaders: BoS and Institute. I zapped Father with the pistol, so he should be in prison with the others. But Maxon I think is "replaced" with a different NPC that roams around to the different areas. The "original" Maxon is probably still on the ship's bridge, and simply disabled. So the NPC's that the SS2 Ch2 quest is pointing you to is unreachable. I'm not sure how to correct the Ch2 conflict for the HQ fight, without having to mess around with the vanilla NPC that the Thuggy quests altered. Might be as simple as "enable/disable" during their portion of the quest, but like you said it probably won't make much sense immersion-wise to speak to people that should no longer be faction leaders.
Regarding the Ch3 conflict, so far it might work to simply change the ally requirements. Again, as long as you've finished reforming the Institute, that should in theory be an immersive alternative to the original requirements.
I did notice an issue with Ch3 though, but I'll make sure it's brought up in the Depravity patch comments since that's the associated mod.
That said, doing the reform you also have to do the BoS part first, which will lock you out of the vanilla BoS faction as potential faction as afaik you don't get the required rank.
And doing the alternative BoS will require a "new faction," rather than unlocking BoS as the leader is different, and if you saw the trailer, their battlecry would be too.
For now I plan to patch to unlock the Institute and the Railroad. I've figured out how, just have to do the scripting. The alternative BoS will be for another day.
As far as infighting goes, I'm fairly confident Valkyrie fixed that when they set all 4 factions as allies, or there would be a bunch more mods that'd need patching.
Chapter 2, highest help seem to follow same conditions as Chapter 3. But different quests for it, so will have to do more research before I can look into patching that.
After installing the patch, the optional objectives to gain help from the Railroad and Institute were completed, and the optional for the BoS was failed. I didn't get any message that the new envoys were waiting at HQ. I went to HQ and checked the conference room, nobody there. I went to Home Plate and slept for 3 days, still no message to meet with the new envoys.
If the quest was already running but not yet finished, does it just skip the meeting dialogue with the Institute and Railroad? Or do I just need to wait a while longer?
Did you try "save and reload" as they have "on save load" event in the script that should rerun things.
But while working on the "Gunner's Daughter" quest, I decided to stop by the meeting room out of curiosity before heading out. Sure enough, X6 and the Institute envoy were standing there waiting for me. I chatted with them, got them as an ally, and it asked me to see the next person. Then the RR was up, I added them as an ally as well, and that was it.
Honestly, I can't remember if Ron or Wise show up during the envoy meetings, or if that's later on. I do know that this time around I had a slightly different dialogue with Wise in 75, and didn't specifically get the dialogue tree asking him to join me (because he didn't suspect me of lying, and just let me in). So I'm not sure if Wise will still come up as an ally option later.
But honestly, without Wise and The Ron (DC) joining as allies this time around, by adding in the Railroad and Institute, in addition to all of the other possible allies, I should still have more than enough for the final battle to go smoothly.
Still, I'm hoping Wise and Ron are still going to show up as allies later. Not only because the story works better that way and there's some good dialogue, but it might benefit me later if SS2 eventually adds in a Chapter 4.
Other than a few minor issues so far, your quest patches are working great. I've already seen the cell instance toggle in action, which worked smoothly (and a little easier than having to remember to toggle the door with the SS2 intercom first). I'm hoping the SS2 team is willing to work with you on setting up those ally requirement toggles to make your mod and others more easily capable of creating compatibility patches. But either way, I think you'll figure out a working fix. Your effort is greatly appreciated, it's nice to finally be able to use these mods together.
So the way I had to do it is that I had to unlock the factions after the quest started to make sure they run at the right times, but the problem I had was that I couldn't find out how to trigger the "check" for factions. Saving and loading often seemed to trigger it amongst other, but in the end they would show up, so figured it was "good enough" there.
The Objectives you got for the factions trigger if you have 1) not finished the game (MQComplete global != 0) 2) If you've meet the factions. 3) destroyed them. So in your case it seemed you had all the 3 objectives, which happened as well on one of the saves I tested on.
Completed it for Railroad and Institute if you trigger the unlocks. I set the BoS to failed as BoS and Valkyrie BoS faction is two different factions in my eyes. So doing this path you can no longer unlock the "vanilla BoS". Realized now that I forgot to add a fail for Railroad depending on how you play out the Valkyrie Quest.
I had no issues getting Wise to show up though. But then again, that might be related to Depravity? Will comment regarding those two more over there.
And for the Cell Toggle, which would be for Outcasts right? As I think I made the quest I found here work form both cells as it was just a terminal. But yeah like how that came out, and the main reason I made it, is so you don't have to keep track of things yourself. The mod does it for you :D
As for the toggles, they are not able to provide more than what have already been done, which lead me to being able to unlock the scenes, as it would require them to rebuild the whole check system from scratch, which is too much work, especially since it can still be done with the current system.
And yeah, I fully understand why you'd want to avoid adding the BoS due to the Thuggy changes. It would look real odd if Maxson or Kells showed up with an envoy, since Maxon is out looking for condoms and Kells is dead. There's only so much you can patch out when mods make serious changes to the vanilla characters or story.
Regarding Wise as an ally, there's no quest conflict there. I simply chose the wrong dialogue path during the SS2 quest, and never got the option to invite him to work for me. I wasn't thinking about it at the time, and when I finally did notice the mistake it was way too late to go back and change it. Lesson learned, need to make sure I choose the correct options next time. But the reality is, it had no negative impact on the quest. Just a different person, and a little less unique dialogue.
The "cell toggle" came up as I was entering Vault 75 for OaR's "Excess Baggage" quest.I had already cleared out the vault pre-Ch2, and been through it again during the beginning of Ch2. I saw the intercom on the wall next to the door, and already knew the cell was hijacked, but I forgot to activate the intercom to swap the doors out. As soon as I went in the door, your message popped up and asked if I wanted to be taken to the correct non-SS2 cell. Saved me from having to exit the vault, toggle the intercom hijack feature, and go back in.
Pretty sure that was the only time the cell warning came up. Your patch fixed the conflict with PV and the hospital, so that didn't even require a hijack toggle.
I'll circle back to take another look down the line, but can't promise I'll be able to improve it much further.
Since by the looks of it, it already runs on a timer, checking if an Ally quest is running (which we start two) and then it should trigger the radio stuff. It should all be there and in theory "just work".
Definitely appreciate the time you've put into these mods. Once the Depravity conflict with The Ron can be resolved, that pretty much clears up any conflicts between the Thuggy mods and SS2. At that point, the SS2 team should be able to remove the Thuggy mods from the incompatible list, and provide links to your mods as suitable compatibility options.
i think that depends strongly at wich point u are with PV on those factions!
Check the description for link.
hi, thanks for this.
it didnt work for me, can you explain a little how it's supposed to work so i can try to sort it?i installed via vortex, loaded a save where i'm in parsons, finished the lorenzo story and then started with valkerie... went to the hospitals, pipboy says i need to go check out mass bay but it doesnt have a front door, and valkerie doesnt have anything useful to say in the way of alternatives...
i dont know if your fix is supposed to mean skipping mass bay, or if it fixes it so i can go in, or what? and so i can't reason my way around the issue
happy to talk privately if you dont want to add potential spoilers or something?
thanks!