With the optional file released to turn some BoS soldiers into officers with Maxsons outfit I now consider this mod completed (unless someone runs into issues of course) and I won't take requests to alter any other BoS NPCs. If you'd like to equip certain stuff on a certain NPC you're free to do so via console.
EDIT: I actually ran into an issue myself with the optional file. I forgot to check "Use all" in the leveled list which resulted in officers equiping either their coat or their hat without any other clothes. It's fixed now. Be sure to get version 1.3.
everyone is complaining lmao. if you don't like it, dont install the mod. it's not that hard. Personally I think this appearance suits Maxson better than the male feminist phenotype he has in vanilla, and I think it's hilarious
Comparison of the brotherhood with the Nazis is: absurb!
The brotherhood did not commit any genocide, the brotherhood only kills mutants, wild ghouls and synths represent a real threat, dance bans murder in slog and teagan sends you to that settlement too, Discrimination against ghouls who have a conscience is not only from the brotherhood, the entire commonwealth has that except good-neighbor, travel with Hancock and you will see how the settlers that we defend with the minutmen, call Hancock a monster or disgusting ghoul, not them they want in diamond city for the reason that they go wild and attack people they are segregated by the same commonwealth. the macabre experiment of the institute "the synth" have done a lot of damage to the commonwealth 200 years in conjunction with another macabre experiment of the institute "the super mutants" using the FEV, clearly they are not like those of the west coast they are aggressive and only want to kill and eat People, the fact that there is a small minority that is not hostile does not mean that they are not a threat in the future.
Comparison of brotherhood with fascism is: ridiculous!.
They are not a government, nor do they pretend to be, the brotherhood has its clear objectives: the collection of technology and the elimination of these creatures made with the objective of harming people,
The brotherhood has done nothing like what their enemies have done. Has the brotherhood created mutants? no!, but they are Nazi because I say so. Has the brotherhood created machines that replace people? no!, but they are Nazi because I say so. Did the brotherhood want to use the drinking water to kill everyone just because they have a little radiation in their blood? no!, but they are Nazi because I say so. That's what I call "Nazi everywhere"
So no! the brotherhood are not nazi.
You posted a mod and it turned into a fierce debate in the comment section XD
It is hinted that the brotherhood starts a genocide after the institute is blown up
The brotherhoods ideology of human superiority was based off the of nazi ideal of Aryan superiority, the storywriter of fallout 4 said this in an interview
Well what a great mod, now i can save people from the horrors of the post war Commonwealth (like ghouls, raiders, Super Mutant, Institute ... etc) by joining the Nazis, sure they where such a good guys, always save humans.... This mod and the one inspired this spit on the grave of the victims of the NSDAP and trivialise their rampage.
p.s. Brotherhood of Steel =/= Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei
I never said I made this mod to turn the BoS into literal Nazis... Like I said in my description it's supposed to bring out what was already hinted in the base game. More like for example the galactic empire in Star Wars. Do you really think the Brotherhood is depicted as the good guys in FO4? Many followers, settlers and factions (including some members of the BoS themselves) in the game voice their concern about them. However, everything I have to say about the matter has been said by me and others in this comment section. Read it if you want and if after you're done you still think this mod is spitting on anyones grave you can come back and tell me why...
I don't understand the obsession with connecting the BOS/Maxen to Nazi's. I know we live in a world where most people live in shades of grey and nothing is black and white but why must we villainize someone or people that do not falter in their mission no matter the cost? In the wasteland you won't make it far if you aren't ready to make tough decisions.
Dawg, Arthur's BoS made extermination of a sentient species (who are, by all intents and purposes, literally human) and anyone who helps them their secondary goal
Feral ghouls, super mutants, raiders. Infiltration-bots designed to replace real, living people, and spy or destabilize the surface. The Brotherhood destroys them all, leading to a much safer land for everyone. Somehow that makes them..... Nazi's?? The Brotherhood are not political. They do not want to rule anyone. They do not want to oppress anyone (unless you're a mutant, raider, or infiltration-bot). They don't care how you live your life. They don't care about race, gender, sex, anything. They literally just make the wasteland as a whole, better. You can question and argue their moralities (such as their destruction of synthetic humanoids some consider to be human) that's fine. Understandable. But to equate them to Hitler's National Socialist Party is objectively asinine.
No, anyone who can't see the Maxsonite BoS are fascists are just so "asinine" and blinded by their love of power armour porn it's ridiculous. The game doesn't just hint, it slaps you in the face, repeatedly! For example, when Kells tasks you with taking a Hitler Youth - er sorry, squires (i.e. child soldiers, dressed like Hitler Youth), to the Super Duper Mart (or wherever), the kid even directly questions the mindless killing of ghouls. Take Hancock on the Prydwen and it's clear he'd be thrown overboard without you there. Then there's not just a total disinterest of helping settlers, but the racketeering of local farms for food "by any means necessary". In a rough world one can explain killings of muties & ferals, even excuse never trying anything to cure them, but the BoS put not one iota of effort into helping citizens' health, let alone civil government. FO4 even gives you a good contrast in the Minutemen. Oxhorn does a good video explainer. I could go on, with many more examples, lore and history - but let's face it, at this stage you're beyond help.
@Justinlonewolf thats because nowadays lots of people have absolutely no idea what real nazis are or what thair ideology was/is. they see one aspect that is similar to what nazis did and immediately label people/factions accordingly without a deeper understanding of the matter.
I do think that I have a well rounded understanding of what the national socialist ideology was. And I get your point about some comparisons not really working. It's true the label "Nazi" is often thrown around rather inflationary. However, while the point of this mod wasn't even to insinuate that the BoS are actual Nazis, I do think there are uncanny parallels. Granted, under Lyons they were a lot less radical but with Maxson in charge their hatred has turned them blind. The nazis tried to wipe out anything that was, in their view, detrimental to their vision of a pure and superior Germany but in doing so they hurt the country more than anyone could imagine. There were a lot of jewish scientists, teachers, soldiers, doctors and so on that were either killed or driven out of Germany. So even when not factoring in morals they just objectively caused unspeakable harm. And that is precisely what can be observed with the BoS as well. They bully peaceful settlers, oppress or outright murder non feral ghouls and destroy all technology they consider potentially dangerous. Those aren't just "tough" decisions, those are decisions actively preventing the wasteland from becoming a better place. Again, I'm not talking about the BoS we got to meet in the capital wasteland. They were radical as well but still reasonable and, above all, they wanted to rebuild and to use technology to help people. But Maxsons Brotherhood lacks any sense of direction other than destruction.
I firmly want to urge everyone to stick to the matter at hand which is whether the BoS can be compared to nazis and not to resort to ad hominem reasoning. I'm saying this now because if this discussion turns into insults I will lock the comments.
Well for one BoS in fallout 4 are fanatics I'm sure you've heard those BoS soldiers shouting "For Elder Maxson" same like Nazi's did with Putler and the North Koreans with the Kim's... BoS soldiers are brainwashed dicks except for some notably good ones...
@streetyson Addressing your points: * The Brotherhood of Steel is a militaristic society. In this society, you are expected to pull your own weight. It makes perfect sense to begin training early with children. It's easy to sit in your chair and fedora, doing your best impression of Oxhorn, but this is the post apocalypse. * Hancock would not be thrown overboard, because without us there he wouldn't be allowed inside the base at all. Ghouls have a habit of going feral. Nobody knows when or even if someone will go, just that most do. That makes them extremely unpredictable. It's not their fault, but that's reality. * You can use racketeering tactics to force settlers to give you food, but it's not officially sanctioned by Elder Maxson. Proctor Teagan gives you this mission in secret, and there is nothing stopping you from justly paying settlers for their goods. * You're incorrect about the Brotherhood not putting "one iota" of effort into civilian health. The elimination of mutated abominations, synths, raiders, and ferals, greatly enhances settler survivability.
This shows the lack of game knowledge in all possible ways.
1- When in the game is shown or imply BoS soldiers kill non feral ghouls in the game? The game shows their disgust of course. But everyone is also hating ghouls. Its been a trend for Fallout series since Fallout 1. Ghouls smell awfull, looks like zombies, and its said they turn feral eventually. Do you see? Ghoul discrimination is not a unique characteristic of the BoS, so, by that logic, everyone is nazi and evil. But you know whats funny. The quest were you found the Ghoul child in the fridge, if you take the kid to their parents, but didnt kill the slaver, you will find a BoS soldier checking if the family is alright. If the slaver attack them, the BoS soldier will retaliate and kill him. He will also attack you if you sell the kid to the slaver. But yeah, let keep comparing BoS to nazis.
2- When in the game BoS soldiers has attack, steal or oppress general populance? The only souce of this is, of course, Teagan quest, a non sanctioned operation by Maxon or other Higher up, and it falls all on the player choice. Pay 1000 caps option? Oh hell no, its too much, i wont waste the caps here. Lets see the rest options. Persuade using violence? Oh look what BoS make me do it. Evil Nazis they are. In truth, BoS use vertibirds to protect merchant caravans ( log in one of their terminal in the Pridwen), and they go shopping to Diamond City ( 3 soldiers can be seen in the Market place, and clearly state they are buying resources after BoS victory). They also are not a Goverment, they dont have any interest in ruling people or tell people what to do with their lives. There arent a single instance of BoS killing or oppresing anyone. They wont bother anyone as far you dont attack them or harass their operations.
3- This is East Coast BoS. This is the peak BoS ideology they can achieve. They mix the original goals of hoard, develop and destroy dangerous tech (like the West branch, with Lyons idea of helping common folk. They indeed make the Wasteland more safe. They kill feral ghouls, other mutated wildlife, super mutants ( killing maniacs that only care to devour and destroy. Only a very few exceptions can be made. This is not the West coast. East Supermutants are nothing more than mutated buffed raiders), raider scum, and sythetic robots. They send squads to deal with those treaths by their own volition. They work for the greater good. None is paying them to do this dangerous task. Just pure conviction and will to help everyone to have a safe life. Even more: they recruit normal people into their ranks, offering them a salary, food, selter and health care. They even repatriate their fallen soldiers and send them back home at Capital Wasteland. 4- Then you have the sythn issue. Funny thing is, BoS dont have any way to know who is a sythn and who is not. In fact none can know that until death. What Nazis or other fanatical group would have done? Fall to paranohia, and start killing random people at the minimun reason trying to find the sythn, rounding up people and mass killing. What BoS does? They know they cant find who is a synth so they just keep on their work. If they get info about who can ba a sythn, they act. Saying that, Maxon, with some persuation, can be convinced to spare Dance, so he at least is enough open minded to accept that there are exceptions. Their fear of sythn hasnt anything in common with nazi puristm or other bullcrap. They litteraly fear programmable people, ruled by a moral hollowed faction, the Institute. Is not that far fetched to understand why they fear sythns.
5- Last but not least. BoS is not facist, since they are not a Goverment and doesnt pretent to be one. They are, for the other part, an authoritarian organizactions. But they are also a militaristic and scientific organization. By nature, all military groups are authoritarian. If you dont believe it, just take a look to Wester countries military branches. And they are like that beacuse its the only way to have a standing army, well organized. You cant have a military based on democracy lika a civilian goverment. Its fundamentaly impossible to do it. So BoS will have an obviously strict chain of command and a defined set of ranks. That said, its shown how even the High Officers can be persuade to change their views to the point of contradicting their general ideas, by lower rank soldiers, like the player character.
So calling, comparing or just insinuating BoS are nazi, fascit or evil is pure preposterous. They are a lawfull grey faction, with good and bad apects, but they move more towards the light than darkness.
Always bugs me how people see BOS as the Nazis and not the Institute...
BOS only kill Super Mutants and Feral Ghouls and other things that are actually a threat to Humans. The Institute is the one who considers Wastelanders, the people above, inferior, kidnaps them, do inhuman experiments on them and turn them into Super Mutants.
So yeah, BOS = Nazis? I don't see it, Institute are closer to being them than BOS IMO.
Cause the Institute are closer to "mad scientists" than militaristic. No one sees Nazis as scientists over being militaristic.
And BoS fits the bill for being a Fascist faction exactly which Nazis definitely are, so it's very understandable why many people associate the BoS with Nazis.
Spoiler:
Show
wiki definition:
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
On top of the NPCs who don't like what the BoS has become like the Scribe, Scribe Haylen, & even Deacon. It's pretty obvious how many in-game NPCs see the BoS as bad news and how many people in real-life see the BoS as Nazis. It's worrying that some of you guys don't see it.
Take Hancock or Nick to the BoS Airport, hear the totally-nice-not-hateful-at-all comments the BoS has to say about them. Go through Danse's companion questline, the number 1 example of Maxson's hate & fear as he tries to justify taking Danse's life regardless of his accomplishments & loyalty purely on how he was born/made.
Also the Institute definitely does not see their Synths as a "master race" or even people. LOL! They are just servants/robots to them. Always some BoS fans really trying to shift blame as if they're not the 2 sides of the same coin as the Enclave. smh
I get your point and I somewhat agree that the institute shares some similarities with Nazis. However, I think the Institute is similar mainly when it comes to their methods and less when it comes to their structure and ideology. Nonetheless your points are interesting and I can even add one, although that one is true for both the Institute and the BoS. Both groups are unconditionally loyal to one single leader who can overrule any decision made by his subordinates. All that being said I don't see why both factions couldn't be compared to nazis to some degree.
spielmirdasliedvomkoks: I can even add one, although that one is true for both the Institute and the BoS. Both groups are unconditionally loyal to one single leader who can overrule any decision made by his subordinates
Psssh! You can say that about any faction then! Where's the fun in that kind of comparison? The board of directors for the Institute actually refuses the Player's choice if you chose the "wait and see" option on how to deal with the BoS. Just so you know.
"The BoS are a cookie cutter authoritarian fascist military regime" Minus the fascist, they really are. They don't meet the prerequisites for being fascist. They're just jerks.
Whatever. "Mankind Redefined" sounds like a Nazi Eugenics program to me. Run by a megalomaniac with a mustache, hiding in a bunker. Concerned about "purity" of DNA, seeking to replace the surface population with Synths that are "superior in mind and body".
I say, we take off and nuke The Institute from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
@niston First of all it's a pleasure to see one of my favourite active modders here! As to the institute: On my very first playthrough I tried to roleplay as myself and I instinctively sided with the Institute. Not at all because I agreed with their methods but because I tried imagining what this situation would actually be like. When one moment you live a peaceful life in pre war Boston and the next moment you're thrown into an absolutely destroyed world full of dangers and mad people but then you end up in this clean, technologically advanced paradise and you're even reunited with your last living relative you probably wouldn't worry about what others might think of that place. I probably wouldn't even consider ever going outside again. And that's before I even knew I'd eventually become Fathers successor and could therefore steer the Institute in a more moderate direction.
69 comments
EDIT: I actually ran into an issue myself with the optional file. I forgot to check "Use all" in the leveled list which resulted in officers equiping either their coat or their hat without any other clothes. It's fixed now. Be sure to get version 1.3.
The brotherhood did not commit any genocide, the brotherhood only kills mutants, wild ghouls and synths represent a real threat, dance bans murder in slog and teagan sends you to that settlement too,
Discrimination against ghouls who have a conscience is not only from the brotherhood, the entire commonwealth has that except good-neighbor, travel with Hancock and you will see how the settlers that we defend with the minutmen, call Hancock a monster or disgusting ghoul, not them they want in diamond city for the reason that they go wild and attack people
they are segregated by the same commonwealth.
the macabre experiment of the institute "the synth" have done a lot of damage to the commonwealth 200 years in conjunction with another macabre experiment of the institute "the super mutants" using the FEV, clearly they are not like those of the west coast they are aggressive and only want to kill and eat People, the fact that there is a small minority that is not hostile does not mean that they are not a threat in the future.
Comparison of brotherhood with fascism is: ridiculous!.
They are not a government, nor do they pretend to be, the brotherhood has its clear objectives: the collection of technology and the elimination of these creatures made with the objective of harming people,
The brotherhood has done nothing like what their enemies have done.
Has the brotherhood created mutants? no!, but they are Nazi because I say so.
Has the brotherhood created machines that replace people? no!, but they are Nazi because I say so.
Did the brotherhood want to use the drinking water to kill everyone just because they have a little radiation in their blood? no!, but they are Nazi because I say so.
That's what I call "Nazi everywhere"
So no! the brotherhood are not nazi.
You posted a mod and it turned into a fierce debate in the comment section XD
The brotherhoods ideology of human superiority was based off the of nazi ideal of Aryan superiority, the storywriter of fallout 4 said this in an interview
Too bad so sad :(
You're confusing the BOS with the Enclave.
I installed the mod because the Brotherhood is based.
We are not the same.
now turn the Enclave into the Basedclave
This mod and the one inspired this spit on the grave of the victims of the NSDAP and trivialise their rampage.
p.s. Brotherhood of Steel =/= Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei
That doesn't make them Nazi's.
P.s. the rest of the comments are based, Ad Victoriam my brothers and sisters!
They don't care how you live your life. They don't care about race, gender, sex, anything. They literally just make the wasteland as a whole, better.
You can question and argue their moralities (such as their destruction of synthetic humanoids some consider to be human) that's fine. Understandable.
But to equate them to Hitler's National Socialist Party is objectively asinine.
thats because nowadays lots of people have absolutely no idea what real nazis are or what thair ideology was/is. they see one aspect that is similar to what nazis did and immediately label people/factions accordingly without a deeper understanding of the matter.
lol
Addressing your points:
* The Brotherhood of Steel is a militaristic society. In this society, you are expected to pull your own weight. It makes perfect sense to begin training early with children. It's easy to sit in your chair and fedora, doing your best impression of Oxhorn, but this is the post apocalypse.
* Hancock would not be thrown overboard, because without us there he wouldn't be allowed inside the base at all. Ghouls have a habit of going feral. Nobody knows when or even if someone will go, just that most do. That makes them extremely unpredictable. It's not their fault, but that's reality.
* You can use racketeering tactics to force settlers to give you food, but it's not officially sanctioned by Elder Maxson. Proctor Teagan gives you this mission in secret, and there is nothing stopping you from justly paying settlers for their goods.
* You're incorrect about the Brotherhood not putting "one iota" of effort into civilian health. The elimination of mutated abominations, synths, raiders, and ferals, greatly enhances settler survivability.
1- When in the game is shown or imply BoS soldiers kill non feral ghouls in the game? The game shows their disgust of course. But everyone is also hating ghouls. Its been a trend for Fallout series since Fallout 1. Ghouls smell awfull, looks like zombies, and its said they turn feral eventually. Do you see? Ghoul discrimination is not a unique characteristic of the BoS, so, by that logic, everyone is nazi and evil. But you know whats funny. The quest were you found the Ghoul child in the fridge, if you take the kid to their parents, but didnt kill the slaver, you will find a BoS soldier checking if the family is alright. If the slaver attack them, the BoS soldier will retaliate and kill him. He will also attack you if you sell the kid to the slaver. But yeah, let keep comparing BoS to nazis.
2- When in the game BoS soldiers has attack, steal or oppress general populance? The only souce of this is, of course, Teagan quest, a non sanctioned operation by Maxon or other Higher up, and it falls all on the player choice. Pay 1000 caps option? Oh hell no, its too much, i wont waste the caps here. Lets see the rest options. Persuade using violence? Oh look what BoS make me do it. Evil Nazis they are. In truth, BoS use vertibirds to protect merchant caravans ( log in one of their terminal in the Pridwen), and they go shopping to Diamond City ( 3 soldiers can be seen in the Market place, and clearly state they are buying resources after BoS victory). They also are not a Goverment, they dont have any interest in ruling people or tell people what to do with their lives. There arent a single instance of BoS killing or oppresing anyone. They wont bother anyone as far you dont attack them or harass their operations.
3- This is East Coast BoS. This is the peak BoS ideology they can achieve. They mix the original goals of hoard, develop and destroy dangerous tech (like the West branch, with Lyons idea of helping common folk. They indeed make the Wasteland more safe. They kill feral ghouls, other mutated wildlife, super mutants ( killing maniacs that only care to devour and destroy. Only a very few exceptions can be made. This is not the West coast. East Supermutants are nothing more than mutated buffed raiders), raider scum, and sythetic robots. They send squads to deal with those treaths by their own volition. They work for the greater good. None is paying them to do this dangerous task. Just pure conviction and will to help everyone to have a safe life. Even more: they recruit normal people into their ranks, offering them a salary, food, selter and health care. They even repatriate their fallen soldiers and send them back home at Capital Wasteland.
4- Then you have the sythn issue. Funny thing is, BoS dont have any way to know who is a sythn and who is not. In fact none can know that until death. What Nazis or other fanatical group would have done? Fall to paranohia, and start killing random people at the minimun reason trying to find the sythn, rounding up people and mass killing. What BoS does? They know they cant find who is a synth so they just keep on their work. If they get info about who can ba a sythn, they act. Saying that, Maxon, with some persuation, can be convinced to spare Dance, so he at least is enough open minded to accept that there are exceptions. Their fear of sythn hasnt anything in common with nazi puristm or other bullcrap. They litteraly fear programmable people, ruled by a moral hollowed faction, the Institute. Is not that far fetched to understand why they fear sythns.
5- Last but not least. BoS is not facist, since they are not a Goverment and doesnt pretent to be one. They are, for the other part, an authoritarian organizactions. But they are also a militaristic and scientific organization. By nature, all military groups are authoritarian. If you dont believe it, just take a look to Wester countries military branches. And they are like that beacuse its the only way to have a standing army, well organized. You cant have a military based on democracy lika a civilian goverment. Its fundamentaly impossible to do it. So BoS will have an obviously strict chain of command and a defined set of ranks. That said, its shown how even the High Officers can be persuade to change their views to the point of contradicting their general ideas, by lower rank soldiers, like the player character.
So calling, comparing or just insinuating BoS are nazi, fascit or evil is pure preposterous. They are a lawfull grey faction, with good and bad apects, but they move more towards the light than darkness.
BOS only kill Super Mutants and Feral Ghouls and other things that are actually a threat to Humans.
The Institute is the one who considers Wastelanders, the people above, inferior, kidnaps them, do inhuman experiments on them and turn them into Super Mutants.
So yeah, BOS = Nazis? I don't see it, Institute are closer to being them than BOS IMO.
And BoS fits the bill for being a Fascist faction exactly which Nazis definitely are, so it's very understandable why many people associate the BoS with Nazis.
On top of the NPCs who don't like what the BoS has become like the Scribe, Scribe Haylen, & even Deacon. It's pretty obvious how many in-game NPCs see the BoS as bad news and how many people in real-life see the BoS as Nazis. It's worrying that some of you guys don't see it.
Take Hancock or Nick to the BoS Airport, hear the totally-nice-not-hateful-at-all comments the BoS has to say about them. Go through Danse's companion questline, the number 1 example of Maxson's hate & fear as he tries to justify taking Danse's life regardless of his accomplishments & loyalty purely on how he was born/made.
Also the Institute definitely does not see their Synths as a "master race" or even people. LOL! They are just servants/robots to them. Always some BoS fans really trying to shift blame as if they're not the 2 sides of the same coin as the Enclave. smh
The board of directors for the Institute actually refuses the Player's choice if you chose the "wait and see" option on how to deal with the BoS. Just so you know.
Concerned about "purity" of DNA, seeking to replace the surface population with Synths that are "superior in mind and body".
I say, we take off and nuke The Institute from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.