There have been several attempts to fix this issue before, which took various approaches to get the job done. I'll list fixes that my mod has rendered obsolete here in this post. I will also include how those mods accomplished their goal, as a point of reference.
so this was a vanilla bug? i thought this nonsense was caused by some obscure mod in my load order because for a long time this issue didn't exist, but i lost track of the mods i added and thought it had to do with one of my texture mods that used AI to downgrade the textures to run on my old ass PC, damn, i'm glad i found a fix because it was super annoying as hell fighting Colter because all these dumbass giant objects obstructing my view.
i noticed you wrote this in the comment above mine, "
FATE includes this mod in its entirety" so if this is the case, then this mod is not the best option, the FATE mod is right?oh, but never mind, that mod for some reason is under moderation, which means i can't use or download that mod anyway, which means i have to use this, hey it is what it is, i just like that this solves that problem in Nuka world.
It's a vanilla bug that only gets revealed by turning off or disabling precombines. That could happen via config file (if you have bUseCombinedObjects=0 set) or via a mod making changes that disable precombines for all or part of Nuka World. You will never see this issue with an unmodified game while using the Bethesda-provided configuration and options.
The most reasonable guess for why the meshes have this issue is that Bethesda may have been using them as a quick litmus test to verify that their dynamic changes to nuka world haven't broken precombines, and they simply forgot to remove them before release.
oh, yeah i have some ini tweaks and some mods that make changes to Nuka world, not a whole lot, but it's probably enough changes that something is breaking them.
thanks for letting me know, you have information that most people wouldn't understand where to look at the culprit of this issue, this name of these things is thrown around so often for this game that it's overwhelming to see just how much they effect the game when not everything is in sync.
This is gonna be a long explanation of what precombines and previs are, so the tl;dr in advance for you: precombines turn a ton of little parts that the game doesn't like handling individually into bigger merged parts that the game is happy with. Previs tells the game which things you see based on those merged parts.
Anyway, on to the explanation:
Precombines and Previs (which some people collectively refer to as previsibines) are a very important optimization system for Fallout 4. While much of the game (mostly interiors and rural areas) could be handled without them by using the same optimizations Skyrim uses, the downtown Boston area makes that impractical.
For context, a lot of the game's buildings, including many of the ones in the downtown areas, are built out of smaller pieces that have been put together sort of like how you build with legos. In Skyrim, you might find that an entire building's exterior is one object. In Fallout 4, that very same building might be a few dozen individual objects.
That creates a lot of work for the game to load and show to the player, and that is where precombines come in. Precombines are a system where Bethesda (or a modder) takes all of those little pieces and merges them into much bigger parts in a way that makes it easier for the game to handle them. So now instead of needing to load a few dozen objects per building and track what those objects are, where they are, and other relevant data per object, it just loads a few models and their physics data. That on its own makes it easier for the game to do things by reducing memory usage and the amount of time the game needs to spend thinking about objects and what may or may not need to be done for them.
But, it doesn't actually make it much easier for the game to show those objects to you, if you're in downtown Boston where there's still so much stuff in one place. And that's where previs comes in. Previs basically makes low resolution 3D map of all of those bits and pieces that got put into the precombines, and the game uses that map to decide whether or not you can see an object. If you can't, it doesn't bother trying to show it to you at all and thus doesn't need to work as hard to show you what you can see.
The fun part is where conflicts come in. Most of the time when you see someone say a mod "breaks" precombines (I prefer disables in this context), they are saying the mod makes changes that lead to the game turning off precombines and previs in the areas it edits. This happens because the mod moves or changes an object that was added to the precombine and previs optimization systems, and the only way for the game to show you that change is to fully load the object rather than rely on optimization. You won't really visually see this ingame, but you might notice it as an impact on your framerate depending on where it is.
On the other hand, previs conflicts tend to be much more obvious. If a mod has the wrong previs and precombine data (such as if I make a mod that places a book on a bench in the boston common, and that mod is loaded after PRP in your load order), you have the game using the wrong index for that 3D map. This leads to objects flickering in and out of existence as you look around, because the list of what parts of what objects are where is scrambled in its memory.
Now, as for why I prefer to say disabled precombines rather than broken precombines. That's because there are cases where objects can be included in precombines without being compatible with the precombine system. The end result is typically that they "explode," for lack of a better description. The objects seem to randomly stretch into infinity, making random walls of color and dragging your framerate into the mud. In this case both precombines and previs are still enabled, but they are fundamentally broken.
i tried the PRP Boston fix mod, and even though people praise it, i didn't notice any difference, but it's also possible i installed it incorrectly, it's been a while since i tried that install, i do remember it being confusing to understand, but this explanation makes sense to me in why bethesda put them in like this, i often wonder why they didn't attempt to turn some assets into single assets instead of adding thousands of objects in any given location, but i don't know or understand that process or even if it was possible, because from my view it feels like bethesda just didn't fully understand what they were doing and just chose which worked the best but either ran out of time or were too lazy to fix it.
i hear from many modders that bethesda leaves in junk items in their games to the extent that it often leads to issues down the road that make the game in some places nearly impossible to play it, now my PC parts are old, but they do meet the requirements of this game, actually i'm slightly higher than the recommendation, but even though this is what i have, the game in so many places is so damn messy and fps heavy, and so this is why i feel bethesda didn't exactly know what they were doing.
i still love playing this game, but it's probably the worst bethesda game i have played when it comes down to the issues, i mean skyrim had issues, but it's issues pale in comparison to this is what i'm figuring out.
most of the time i get about 70 to 90fps, but the Boston area is hell on my fps, i drop down to 30 and sometimes under 30fps along most of the city scape, so i end up missing out on the vast majority of the city area and only go down there for goodneibor because it preforms so badly, i feel like goodneibor should have been in some other location where it wasn't fucking hell do deal with.
pndragon65 that's probably true, the elder scrolls is far more popular of a series, don't get me wrong i love fallout, but the elder scrolls is often where it's at, hell i have over 10,000 hours in that game lol, it might be the setting of where almost anything is possible, lore friendly or not, the game just makes it all possible.
but while in fallout we can't even hold a shield in your left hand while holding a gun lol, it's simply impossible, and some mod authors have attempted this feat, but it's still not there, it's close but not good enough, the melee in this game also sucks and is often not worth using at all, like it's beyond jank in comparison to vanilla skyrim.
i mean for the guns that have scopes i understand that wouldn't be possible, but for a pistol without a scope attachment and having a shield in the left hand should be possible in this game, but it just can't be done for some reason.
but there are some good things about this game that were done far better than in skyrim, so not everything is all bad.
Works on bottles already in the world but not part of precombines, Do you know of any like that? I'm wondering if I should leave it as is so I can tell when something breaks precombines near those, but if some exist like that I would like them fixed, Thankss
As far as I'm aware, all accessible bottles affected by this problem are precombined by default. There is a set that was intended to be workshop objects, but they were never finished and I suspect no mods have added them to the workshop specifically because of this issue.
Thank you so much! I've played through this dlc four or five times before and yet this playthrough was the first I had this bug. I'm so glad this mod fixed it, I was not looking forward to disabling every bottle in the console. Really appreciate this!
It would have appear that I don't have these bottles glitching like everyone does. Could it be some other mod conflict? You guys might want to dig deeper if it is.
These bottles work normally if you have functional precombines. However, if the bottle is placed in the world by a mod or manages to load due to broken or disabled precombines, you get the results shown in my screenshots up above. So while you're technically right that a mod conflict triggers the bug, the source of the problem is the corrupted model fixed in this mod.
Thank you for explaining this but I did understood how this worked from the begining. I was just stating that I don't have this problem with my game and that this problem may be caused from some other mod.
Edit: I had doubled checked and yip my game is fine in this aspect.
My original response was not saying it's a fix you needed. It was specifically a response to you suggesting I should dig deeper into the cause of the issue. I was explaining that doing so is what resulted in this mod being made in the first place.
You are correct that with no mods installed, or with a properly clean load order, a player will likely never see this bug. I personally have never run into this bug without intentionally triggering it. That does not stop it from being a very common bug that was in need of a clean, broadly compatible fix. A bug caused by a Bethesda asset, and hidden by a Bethesda optimization.
Edit: It's also worth noting that this fix also makes the bottle in question usable by modders. If I wanted to use one of the original objects to decorate a new location I built, this bug would affect every large bottle I placed while building and testing the mod, and would only be resolved by building precombines for the location. That's a less than ideal solution when fixing the mesh itself could make the bottle stay at the location and scale it was placed at in the editor.
Hey Mmoplayer75 I've never seen this either. Keeping the same well-researched mods in a good load order no matter how many times you play will keep this from happening. If you have to add, read every comment, read the author's notes, and create a save just to test. With 255 installed the odds are high I should have encountered this, but I'm no longer adding or subtracting. Like Glitchfinder said though, this would be a good fix for those who have been less judicious in their mod installations, and thus exposed the glitched meshes Bethesda gave us.
That is wierd. I have had this game for many years now, since released. I have never seen this happen but I do understand that some are just less fortunate. I'm just glad that there is someone who is willing to fix this and make the FO4 gaming community a better place. I had down loaded this, not to use but just to endorse.
I had the nuka world giant bottles 'wall' weirdo thing happen. I had to walk 'through' the wall to enter. I got so used to it, I just lived with it. I will use your mod. Hope it works, will endorse if it does. Thankyou.
And I'd gotten used to disabling them in the console, both for the arena and the junkyard. Now I'm looking forward to getting over to Nuka World in my current playthrough.
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Obsolete Mods:
- Nuka Cars Bottle Fix: Removes bottles by breaking precombines.
- Nuka-World Bottle Scenery Fix: Replaces bottles by breaking precombines.
- Real Nuka World Giant Bottle Fix: Removes bottles by replacing them with empty meshes. Affects bottles that had no issues as well as ones that did have issues.
Redundant Mods:
- FO4 Fixes And Technical Enhancements (FATE Patch): FATE includes this mod in its entirety, so there is no need to install it separately.
i noticed you wrote this in the comment above mine, "
FATE includes this mod in its entirety" so if this is the case, then this mod is not the best option, the FATE mod is right?oh, but never mind, that mod for some reason is under moderation, which means i can't use or download that mod anyway, which means i have to use this, hey it is what it is, i just like that this solves that problem in Nuka world.
The most reasonable guess for why the meshes have this issue is that Bethesda may have been using them as a quick litmus test to verify that their dynamic changes to nuka world haven't broken precombines, and they simply forgot to remove them before release.
thanks for letting me know, you have information that most people wouldn't understand where to look at the culprit of this issue, this name of these things is thrown around so often for this game that it's overwhelming to see just how much they effect the game when not everything is in sync.
Anyway, on to the explanation:
Precombines and Previs (which some people collectively refer to as previsibines) are a very important optimization system for Fallout 4. While much of the game (mostly interiors and rural areas) could be handled without them by using the same optimizations Skyrim uses, the downtown Boston area makes that impractical.
For context, a lot of the game's buildings, including many of the ones in the downtown areas, are built out of smaller pieces that have been put together sort of like how you build with legos. In Skyrim, you might find that an entire building's exterior is one object. In Fallout 4, that very same building might be a few dozen individual objects.
That creates a lot of work for the game to load and show to the player, and that is where precombines come in. Precombines are a system where Bethesda (or a modder) takes all of those little pieces and merges them into much bigger parts in a way that makes it easier for the game to handle them. So now instead of needing to load a few dozen objects per building and track what those objects are, where they are, and other relevant data per object, it just loads a few models and their physics data. That on its own makes it easier for the game to do things by reducing memory usage and the amount of time the game needs to spend thinking about objects and what may or may not need to be done for them.
But, it doesn't actually make it much easier for the game to show those objects to you, if you're in downtown Boston where there's still so much stuff in one place. And that's where previs comes in. Previs basically makes low resolution 3D map of all of those bits and pieces that got put into the precombines, and the game uses that map to decide whether or not you can see an object. If you can't, it doesn't bother trying to show it to you at all and thus doesn't need to work as hard to show you what you can see.
The fun part is where conflicts come in. Most of the time when you see someone say a mod "breaks" precombines (I prefer disables in this context), they are saying the mod makes changes that lead to the game turning off precombines and previs in the areas it edits. This happens because the mod moves or changes an object that was added to the precombine and previs optimization systems, and the only way for the game to show you that change is to fully load the object rather than rely on optimization. You won't really visually see this ingame, but you might notice it as an impact on your framerate depending on where it is.
On the other hand, previs conflicts tend to be much more obvious. If a mod has the wrong previs and precombine data (such as if I make a mod that places a book on a bench in the boston common, and that mod is loaded after PRP in your load order), you have the game using the wrong index for that 3D map. This leads to objects flickering in and out of existence as you look around, because the list of what parts of what objects are where is scrambled in its memory.
Now, as for why I prefer to say disabled precombines rather than broken precombines. That's because there are cases where objects can be included in precombines without being compatible with the precombine system. The end result is typically that they "explode," for lack of a better description. The objects seem to randomly stretch into infinity, making random walls of color and dragging your framerate into the mud. In this case both precombines and previs are still enabled, but they are fundamentally broken.
i hear from many modders that bethesda leaves in junk items in their games to the extent that it often leads to issues down the road that make the game in some places nearly impossible to play it, now my PC parts are old, but they do meet the requirements of this game, actually i'm slightly higher than the recommendation, but even though this is what i have, the game in so many places is so damn messy and fps heavy, and so this is why i feel bethesda didn't exactly know what they were doing.
i still love playing this game, but it's probably the worst bethesda game i have played when it comes down to the issues, i mean skyrim had issues, but it's issues pale in comparison to this is what i'm figuring out.
most of the time i get about 70 to 90fps, but the Boston area is hell on my fps, i drop down to 30 and sometimes under 30fps along most of the city scape, so i end up missing out on the vast majority of the city area and only go down there for goodneibor because it preforms so badly, i feel like goodneibor should have been in some other location where it wasn't fucking hell do deal with.
RE Skyrim versus FO4, Bethesda has never given the care to their other IPs that they give The Elder Scrolls
that's probably true, the elder scrolls is far more popular of a series, don't get me wrong i love fallout, but the elder scrolls is often where it's at, hell i have over 10,000 hours in that game lol, it might be the setting of where almost anything is possible, lore friendly or not, the game just makes it all possible.
but while in fallout we can't even hold a shield in your left hand while holding a gun lol, it's simply impossible, and some mod authors have attempted this feat, but it's still not there, it's close but not good enough, the melee in this game also sucks and is often not worth using at all, like it's beyond jank in comparison to vanilla skyrim.
i mean for the guns that have scopes i understand that wouldn't be possible, but for a pistol without a scope attachment and having a shield in the left hand should be possible in this game, but it just can't be done for some reason.
but there are some good things about this game that were done far better than in skyrim, so not everything is all bad.
Great job
I did a proper explanation of the problem here.
Edit: I had doubled checked and yip my game is fine in this aspect.
You are correct that with no mods installed, or with a properly clean load order, a player will likely never see this bug. I personally have never run into this bug without intentionally triggering it. That does not stop it from being a very common bug that was in need of a clean, broadly compatible fix. A bug caused by a Bethesda asset, and hidden by a Bethesda optimization.
Edit: It's also worth noting that this fix also makes the bottle in question usable by modders. If I wanted to use one of the original objects to decorate a new location I built, this bug would affect every large bottle I placed while building and testing the mod, and would only be resolved by building precombines for the location. That's a less than ideal solution when fixing the mesh itself could make the bottle stay at the location and scale it was placed at in the editor.
+ 4 loose mesh files
Until the 1st mesh fix "Nuka-World Bottle Scenery Fix" (from August 19th, 2019 downloaded)
I only had 2 mods for NukaWorld:
1. Nuka-World Satellite Map 2K-32456-1-0 and
2. SOS – CBBE Nuka spacesuit-40237-1-0-1564059947
However, these 2 mods have no effect on the meshes of the Nuka bottles. So what caused the bottles to inflate?
Thanks for the most obvious solution!