Just so you are aware - a .45 is a noticeably less powerful round than a 10mm. Changing a 10mm to a .45 should do less damage, have less recoil, and allow for faster follow up shots.
If you wanted to make the 10mm more powerful, you should be adding magnum style rounds or something.
(EDIT: For example, a 45 Super typically has around 674 ft.lbf compared to the average 10mm clocking in at 728. The normal .45 ACP is significantly weaker than a 45 super, so this is even more drastic of a downgrade)
Well, this is a fictionalized game, so not everything necessarily makes sense. I myself don't know a lot about firearms and ammunition, so I suppose you are probably technically right, as you sound like you know what you are talking about.
But.....
Why does upgrading a "receiver" of a gun that still shoots the same ammunition make the gun do more damage? Shouldn't the gun then use different ammunition that has a higher "ft.lbf" (as you say) spec to justify the damage increase? How exactly should the game designers have handled this? Should they have created a different type of ammunition for every "receiver" level for every gun in the game? Why does a combat rifle using the same .45 ammo that a pipe revolver shoots do more damage? It also does more damage than the (10mm rounds) the 10mm pistol uses. The base "per shot" damage the pipe revolver does is also higher than the 10mm pistol base damage. Why is the (in the real world) more powerful 10mm ammunition more common and easily found very early in the game, while the less powerful .45 ammo is rare until a character reaches level 10 or so? Obviously, the .45 ammo the pipe gun uses must be different in some way to the .45 ammo the combat rifle uses, but you can still interchange them freely in the vanilla game. Why does the "hunting rifle" in this game do more damage than the bolt action pipe gun that takes the same .308 ammunition? There is no in game spec that differentiates between the two ammunition types that most certainly must be different from each other.
I think the game designers did not want to get into the specifics of creating ammunition according to "real world" specs, and truth be told, I agree with them. It is simply too complicated, and would result in an unmanageable amount of different items to add to leveled lists. If you can suspend your sense of disbelief to accept that "fusion cores" are a thing that powers a nuclear reactor that would fit inside most people's basements then what I do in my small mod should not be too much of a stretch.
Anyway, I just wanted to enhance the playing experience of others by giving them a few extra options for a vanilla weapon in the game. I want to try to contribute something to a community that has greatly increased my own enjoyment of the game over the years. I guess that people who care that a ".45 Super" or whatever is less powerful in real life than a 10mm they can choose to not use my mod. As far as I am concerned there are enough inconsistencies vs "real life" in this game that nit picking over whether or not my choice of .45 for higher powered gun receivers is technically correct is silly. FO4 is a silly, fictionalized game - just enjoy it for what it is!
10 mm. has more energy and velocity, but the .45 is historically considered to have a more forceful impact. I remember my father telling me that if a man got shot in the pinky toe with a Colt .45, it would take him down. It was a popular weapon from WW1 through the Vietnam conflict. It wasn't replaced until circa '87 in the US Army. Replaced by the 9mm Beretta. I believe the 10 mm didn't come into action until 1983. By the numbers the 10 mm does beat the .45 though. It's a much faster round. "shrugs
My question is... does this mod work? I mean, has it been tested in game and with the workbench? Why is that guy wearing a Chef's hat? :)
The mod works for me - I made this mod a year ago, and have been running it in my moderately modded (140mods) game all this time. I just recently made the esl version. When I did, I unchecked the esp and activated the esl. I played for a short time this way, and did not notice any difference.
The guy wearing the chef's hat is one of the characters I play the game with named Chef Perry. I got the idea for this character from an old radio comedy skit that used to play regularly on one of the local "Classic Rock" FM stations in the city I live in. The skit was called "Quick Food Tips With Chef Perry", and included classic recipes like the "PBJ Sandwich and a Beer". Chef Perry was a rude, crude, sarcastic, drunken moron who had a cooking show even though he did not actually know how to cook. I play the character that way as much as possible, and sometimes use him to demo mods. Someday if I learn enough about modding I sort of have an idea for a fetch type quest where the player gets to travel the commonwealth looking for Chef Perry's recipes, that could then be made at a cooking station.
Anyway, this mod was not intended to recreate a "real world" technically accurate receiver upgrade. The FO4 developers themselves were not really overly concerned about this either. I just wanted something that would fit in well with the existing game balance. All of the weapon mods I (and recv5x) have made try to add features to existing vanilla game weapons to make them more interesting and fun for players to use. FO4 is set in a fictional game world where you can somehow use a shoulder fired weapon that produces tiny nuclear explosions. Keeping this in mind, It does not really matter if a "real life" .45 is less powerful than a 10mm round.
I love using the 10mm. Especially the automatic version. Making it last longer as a valid weapon of choice is a good thing. I'll try it out. Thanks for sharing. Who cares about reality, as long as it kills stuff.
I was just looking at the stats on the new .45 receivers and I'm confused about something. The full automatic .45 receiver only does 27 damage. Where the regular 10mm powerful automatic does 40 damage. There's no point in upgrading to the .45 automatic. It does less damage. Unless I'm missing something. I don't think I am though. I'm using the esl version.
I am looking at a 10mm in my workbench right now, as I write this. The "Powerful Automatic" 10mm receiver shows me 22 damage per shot, and the .45 automatic is 27 damage per shot. The character I am looking with has no gunslinger or commando perks, so what I am looking at is the base damage for each receiver type. Maybe the perk applied got crossed up somehow. I will check it out.
Edit - I just added a rank of commando to my character, and everything still looks as it should. Now the powerful Auto 10mm receiver does 26 damage and the .45 auto does 32 damage. What perks do you have?
Edit 2 - I just tried this out with a character with rank 5 commando. The 10mm powerful auto receiver does 76 damage and the .45 auto receiver does 94 damage. Can you have another look on your end? Everything looks OK for me.
My apologies. I'm using a mod called Automatic Rebalance. This must be responsible for the stats I'm seeing in my workbench. It didn't register with me, because there was no conflict between the two mods in xEdit. They do different things to the receivers. My bad. Ignor my PM reply. Your mod is fine. I can't believe I forgot all about that mod. BTW if you, or anyone want to find fresh love for the commando perk, I do recommend this mod:
LOL - I was just personal messaging you to suggest something like that, probably at the same time you were writing this! It is without a doubt a mod conflict with Automatic Rebalance, since they both affect the same things.
11 comments
If you wanted to make the 10mm more powerful, you should be adding magnum style rounds or something.
(EDIT: For example, a 45 Super typically has around 674 ft.lbf compared to the average 10mm clocking in at 728. The normal .45 ACP is significantly weaker than a 45 super, so this is even more drastic of a downgrade)
But.....
Why does upgrading a "receiver" of a gun that still shoots the same ammunition make the gun do more damage? Shouldn't the gun then use different ammunition that has a higher "ft.lbf" (as you say) spec to justify the damage increase? How exactly should the game designers have handled this? Should they have created a different type of ammunition for every "receiver" level for every gun in the game? Why does a combat rifle using the same .45 ammo that a pipe revolver shoots do more damage? It also does more damage than the (10mm rounds) the 10mm pistol uses. The base "per shot" damage the pipe revolver does is also higher than the 10mm pistol base damage. Why is the (in the real world) more powerful 10mm ammunition more common and easily found very early in the game, while the less powerful .45 ammo is rare until a character reaches level 10 or so? Obviously, the .45 ammo the pipe gun uses must be different in some way to the .45 ammo the combat rifle uses, but you can still interchange them freely in the vanilla game. Why does the "hunting rifle" in this game do more damage than the bolt action pipe gun that takes the same .308 ammunition? There is no in game spec that differentiates between the two ammunition types that most certainly must be different from each other.
I think the game designers did not want to get into the specifics of creating ammunition according to "real world" specs, and truth be told, I agree with them. It is simply too complicated, and would result in an unmanageable amount of different items to add to leveled lists. If you can suspend your sense of disbelief to accept that "fusion cores" are a thing that powers a nuclear reactor that would fit inside most people's basements then what I do in my small mod should not be too much of a stretch.
Anyway, I just wanted to enhance the playing experience of others by giving them a few extra options for a vanilla weapon in the game. I want to try to contribute something to a community that has greatly increased my own enjoyment of the game over the years. I guess that people who care that a ".45 Super" or whatever is less powerful in real life than a 10mm they can choose to not use my mod. As far as I am concerned there are enough inconsistencies vs "real life" in this game that nit picking over whether or not my choice of .45 for higher powered gun receivers is technically correct is silly. FO4 is a silly, fictionalized game - just enjoy it for what it is!
My question is... does this mod work? I mean, has it been tested in game and with the workbench? Why is that guy wearing a Chef's hat? :)
The guy wearing the chef's hat is one of the characters I play the game with named Chef Perry. I got the idea for this character from an old radio comedy skit that used to play regularly on one of the local "Classic Rock" FM stations in the city I live in. The skit was called "Quick Food Tips With Chef Perry", and included classic recipes like the "PBJ Sandwich and a Beer". Chef Perry was a rude, crude, sarcastic, drunken moron who had a cooking show even though he did not actually know how to cook. I play the character that way as much as possible, and sometimes use him to demo mods. Someday if I learn enough about modding I sort of have an idea for a fetch type quest where the player gets to travel the commonwealth looking for Chef Perry's recipes, that could then be made at a cooking station.
Anyway, this mod was not intended to recreate a "real world" technically accurate receiver upgrade. The FO4 developers themselves were not really overly concerned about this either. I just wanted something that would fit in well with the existing game balance. All of the weapon mods I (and recv5x) have made try to add features to existing vanilla game weapons to make them more interesting and fun for players to use. FO4 is set in a fictional game world where you can somehow use a shoulder fired weapon that produces tiny nuclear explosions. Keeping this in mind, It does not really matter if a "real life" .45 is less powerful than a 10mm round.
PBJ and beer sounds gross. :)
Thanks for your encouraging words. I hope you enjoy the mod.
I am looking at a 10mm in my workbench right now, as I write this. The "Powerful Automatic" 10mm receiver shows me 22 damage per shot, and the .45 automatic is 27 damage per shot. The character I am looking with has no gunslinger or commando perks, so what I am looking at is the base damage for each receiver type. Maybe the perk applied got crossed up somehow. I will check it out.
Edit - I just added a rank of commando to my character, and everything still looks as it should. Now the powerful Auto 10mm receiver does 26 damage and the .45 auto does 32 damage. What perks do you have?
Edit 2 - I just tried this out with a character with rank 5 commando. The 10mm powerful auto receiver does 76 damage and the .45 auto receiver does 94 damage. Can you have another look on your end? Everything looks OK for me.
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/60510