Kinda pointless without altering LLs coz there is a high chance you'll find 10mm inside any container right after exiting Vault. It also breaks Vault elevator for me.
I watched the video in the pinned comment... and I gotta say I agree with the overall idea of locking the 10mm pistol in that locker.
I made a few modifications for myself based on how I have my game modded to suit my playstyle. I play with a mod that allows me to drastically reduce the amount of XP I get in general (XP-GEM, shameless promotion), so leveling up takes way longer, around 4 times longer, so every perk point I get I spend very consciously because it's going to take quite a while until I get another one. It also means getting to level 7 to access Locksmith rank 2 (to unlock Expert locks) will take even longer, and chances are by then I will have found a better weapon than the 10mm pistol so it's not going to be much of an incentive to go back to Vault 111 to unlock it. For those reasons I edited the following:
- I changed the lock from Expert to Advanced: while yes, I *could* just spend the 1st perk I get in Locksmith rank 1, I will probably prioritize something else and pipe weapons will have to do for now (after all that's the whole point of installing the mod), but this allows me to not lock myself out of that room until I reach level 7 which will take longer in my game than normal.
- I removed the 2nd copy of the 10mm pistol: I never really understood why Bethesda added a 2nd copy if they were already giving you one on top of the Overseer's desk, so I removed it and instead I replaced it with 2 stimpaks (a more generic yet still useful reward, as I also play with Loot Balance which makes consumables scarcer so getting a few stimpaks is actually a welcome reward in my modded game).
- I also removed the 10mm pistol that is located on the floor in a shower in Sanctuary (really no point in skipping the Vault 111 pistol if I am going to get one right when I get to Sanctuary).
Anyway, thanks for the mod, endorsed! :)
PS: If anyone is using Loot Balance, there's a minor conflict that can be resolved in like 2 seconds in FO4Edit, Loot Balance happened to reduce the ammo count in one of those 10mm ammo boxes from 50 to 24, just forward the change and that's it. :thumbsup:
Good for what it does. I likely won't use this mod as I have a severe problem with even confirmed pre-war safes and such having pipe weapons. I'm talking the chest in the office at the bottom of the Weston water treatment plant, a room that went hermetic when the War killed the staff and the workspace flooded again. It then stayed that way for two centuries.
Needless to say, I run a mod to stop that silliness. Pipe weapons are, in a word, silly as originally presented by Bethesda. I refrain from calling 'em the Bathysphere (for once) as they got over that for things like Nuka-World and Far harbor. Pipes are the Iron Daggers of Fallout Earth and all you Skyrim players are rolling your eyes now in recognition of the issue. There's a reason why Raiders leveling with you lose the pipes pretty much before you leave level 5 behind!!
I wouldn't call Pipe Weapons silly, they just didn't create a period of time in the game where they were the only thing you could get your hands on. That is the catalyst to diminishing (or completely eliminating) any value they have.
I'll be honest here, the best feeling I can ever remember in Fallout 4 was when I first played the game and came across that Pipe Sniper Rifle on the 2nd floor of that house in Concord. Woohoo. Scope? Check. .308 Winchester? Double Check. All right, now we are cooking with gas. 20-30 minutes later I came across Trudy who I helped get out of a jam, who just happened to have a suppressed Pipe Gun for sale - and I literally had to sell the shirt on my back to be able to buy it. I took that suppressor off it and put it on my nice Pipe Sniper Rifle - because it was the ONLY precision ranged weapon I had.
Then 5 minutes later I get a hold of a scoped .308 Bolt-Action Hunting Rifle - stock and all and I'm like - really? C'mon man, give me some hours of gameplay with that sweet Suppressed Pipe Sniper Rifle at least.
@Blaze Thats BS, at lvl 20 I still get my 50%+ raiders carrying pipe weapons. I dont have any mod that actively changes that, but could be.... In my experience raiders do not lose their pipes at lvl 5 or anywhere near that. Maybe if you go south of Diamond City?
@fraquar; I agree some weapons are too easy to find, but can you run the economics? getting a .308 early game is nice but its still a piper weapon, so less bang for your buck versus a sniper rifle. Do you really wanne waste the rare (early game) .308 ammo on a subpar weapon? or Save it up for later?
There is literally a period of time due to how the upgrades at given levels work where a Pipe .308 would outperform the Hunting Rifle in .308. That time is the level difference between tier upgrades for the respective weapons. The problem is you get levels so fast in the game that the amount of time you have to leverage that "advantage" you get from the Pipe weapons is minuscule at best.
By design - it's horrible. With mods and some creative thinking - it's manageable or even preferrable.
Personally, I like the thought of having a period of time in the game where I'm forced to use the most crude weapons known to man - in an apocalyptic environment that would suggest most of what I knew is long gone. At the end of the day, sure, I'll move on to weapons that survived the apocalypse unscathed, were looted from caches and saw the light of day.
Now imagine you start off with a CROSS Ruger MkV - in it's most basic form. A .22LR pistol that is a joke which you will quickly revert to your "last resort" weapon even when compared to a Pipe Pistol in .38, but as the game progresses you can come back to that weapon with some upgrades that give it functionality you can't get from mid-tier weapons (and certainly can't get from that Pipe Pistol)? That is good game design, not giving people the end game ballistic pistol and a bunch of ammo from minute 1. You are left with a dilemma, do I toss the Ruger in .22LR or the Pipe in .38?
I think the Jabo video (and thus, by extension, this mod), got it wrong. Bethesda didn't mess this up. In my first playthru I found the 10mm and thought great, at least I got a decent sidearm - after all, I'm not an uber-talented trooper. So off I went, trigger happy, only to find by the time I was 1/3rd the way to Diamond City I was out of ammo for both it and a shotgun I'd found, and was relying on pipegun & tyre iron (and running away). The first lesson FO4 wanted me to learn was: don't waste the good stuff.
Remember, not everyone new to FO4 is a talented gamer or have any real clue what they're doing. The 10mm pistol is there for them to fall back on, until they figure out how to mod weapons. And then, like me, end up modding and using pipe-weapons through the early game, simply because they find so many pipes and ammo, and conversely relatively little other ammo-types. The pipe became my defacto learn-how-to-mod trainer weapon. At least that was my experience and, I suspect, many others' too.
I'd suggest leaving the 10mm pistol on the desk, but move some (maybe half?) of the ammo into the lockup.
You got it backwards, you said so yourself in your description of your 1st play through. The pipe guns are there for you to "fall back on", because if you have 10mm ammo you will use it. The fallback weapon is the one you toss when you no longer need it.....
It's why in my other post I said I replace the 10mm with a .22LR. Any survival kit is going to have a .22LR weapon, for hunting small game once you leave the vault. Guards in their haste to leave would take their sidearms and their ammo for it (10mm), in a rush leaving behind the weaker weapon - which is more than enough to introduce the player to the games weapon mechanics.
Then you have cake and can eat it too. A starter pistol which isn't OP right out the gate, something you can fall back on if you find something better - and something that should have an overabundance of ammo for it in the game since it's the weakest ammo type.
19 comments
I made a few modifications for myself based on how I have my game modded to suit my playstyle. I play with a mod that allows me to drastically reduce the amount of XP I get in general (XP-GEM, shameless promotion), so leveling up takes way longer, around 4 times longer, so every perk point I get I spend very consciously because it's going to take quite a while until I get another one. It also means getting to level 7 to access Locksmith rank 2 (to unlock Expert locks) will take even longer, and chances are by then I will have found a better weapon than the 10mm pistol so it's not going to be much of an incentive to go back to Vault 111 to unlock it. For those reasons I edited the following:
- I changed the lock from Expert to Advanced: while yes, I *could* just spend the 1st perk I get in Locksmith rank 1, I will probably prioritize something else and pipe weapons will have to do for now (after all that's the whole point of installing the mod), but this allows me to not lock myself out of that room until I reach level 7 which will take longer in my game than normal.
- I removed the 2nd copy of the 10mm pistol: I never really understood why Bethesda added a 2nd copy if they were already giving you one on top of the Overseer's desk, so I removed it and instead I replaced it with 2 stimpaks (a more generic yet still useful reward, as I also play with Loot Balance which makes consumables scarcer so getting a few stimpaks is actually a welcome reward in my modded game).
- I also removed the 10mm pistol that is located on the floor in a shower in Sanctuary (really no point in skipping the Vault 111 pistol if I am going to get one right when I get to Sanctuary).
Anyway, thanks for the mod, endorsed! :)
PS: If anyone is using Loot Balance, there's a minor conflict that can be resolved in like 2 seconds in FO4Edit, Loot Balance happened to reduce the ammo count in one of those 10mm ammo boxes from 50 to 24, just forward the change and that's it. :thumbsup:
Needless to say, I run a mod to stop that silliness. Pipe weapons are, in a word, silly as originally presented by Bethesda. I refrain from calling 'em the Bathysphere (for once) as they got over that for things like Nuka-World and Far harbor. Pipes are the Iron Daggers of Fallout Earth and all you Skyrim players are rolling your eyes now in recognition of the issue. There's a reason why Raiders leveling with you lose the pipes pretty much before you leave level 5 behind!!
I'll be honest here, the best feeling I can ever remember in Fallout 4 was when I first played the game and came across that Pipe Sniper Rifle on the 2nd floor of that house in Concord. Woohoo. Scope? Check. .308 Winchester? Double Check. All right, now we are cooking with gas. 20-30 minutes later I came across Trudy who I helped get out of a jam, who just happened to have a suppressed Pipe Gun for sale - and I literally had to sell the shirt on my back to be able to buy it. I took that suppressor off it and put it on my nice Pipe Sniper Rifle - because it was the ONLY precision ranged weapon I had.
Then 5 minutes later I get a hold of a scoped .308 Bolt-Action Hunting Rifle - stock and all and I'm like - really? C'mon man, give me some hours of gameplay with that sweet Suppressed Pipe Sniper Rifle at least.
In my experience raiders do not lose their pipes at lvl 5 or anywhere near that. Maybe if you go south of Diamond City?
@fraquar; I agree some weapons are too easy to find, but can you run the economics? getting a .308 early game is nice but its still a piper weapon, so less bang for your buck versus a sniper rifle. Do you really wanne waste the rare (early game) .308 ammo on a subpar weapon? or Save it up for later?
That time is the level difference between tier upgrades for the respective weapons.
The problem is you get levels so fast in the game that the amount of time you have to leverage that "advantage" you get from the Pipe weapons is minuscule at best.
By design - it's horrible.
With mods and some creative thinking - it's manageable or even preferrable.
Personally, I like the thought of having a period of time in the game where I'm forced to use the most crude weapons known to man - in an apocalyptic environment that would suggest most of what I knew is long gone. At the end of the day, sure, I'll move on to weapons that survived the apocalypse unscathed, were looted from caches and saw the light of day.
Now imagine you start off with a CROSS Ruger MkV - in it's most basic form. A .22LR pistol that is a joke which you will quickly revert to your "last resort" weapon even when compared to a Pipe Pistol in .38, but as the game progresses you can come back to that weapon with some upgrades that give it functionality you can't get from mid-tier weapons (and certainly can't get from that Pipe Pistol)? That is good game design, not giving people the end game ballistic pistol and a bunch of ammo from minute 1. You are left with a dilemma, do I toss the Ruger in .22LR or the Pipe in .38?
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/57785
Remember, not everyone new to FO4 is a talented gamer or have any real clue what they're doing. The 10mm pistol is there for them to fall back on, until they figure out how to mod weapons. And then, like me, end up modding and using pipe-weapons through the early game, simply because they find so many pipes and ammo, and conversely relatively little other ammo-types. The pipe became my defacto learn-how-to-mod trainer weapon. At least that was my experience and, I suspect, many others' too.
I'd suggest leaving the 10mm pistol on the desk, but move some (maybe half?) of the ammo into the lockup.
It's why in my other post I said I replace the 10mm with a .22LR. Any survival kit is going to have a .22LR weapon, for hunting small game once you leave the vault. Guards in their haste to leave would take their sidearms and their ammo for it (10mm), in a rush leaving behind the weaker weapon - which is more than enough to introduce the player to the games weapon mechanics.
Then you have cake and can eat it too. A starter pistol which isn't OP right out the gate, something you can fall back on if you find something better - and something that should have an overabundance of ammo for it in the game since it's the weakest ammo type.