Been messing around if FOedit. Without getting to into it, that percent to bleed is wonky as heck. I have it turned down to like 3% and I still bleed with every like 3rd or 4th hit. I'm assuming this is a engine thing. Doesn't make sense tho. I'll keep playing with it
It's under Magic Effects > conditions. You'll see it at the bottom. I made three different effects based on Damage Resist. 0 -30, 31-99, and 100 plus. At 0-30 I have 5% chance for bleed but man that ends up being a lot. 31-99 is 2% 100 plus is 1% It was still a lot at 2% so I made small caliber bullets have their own chance for bleed which was a lot better. This way I'm not bleeding all over the place with .22 and .38's. I also made a separate "bleed kit" which takes an adrenaline injector so that makes it harder.
any chance you could upload your edit? sounds like you nailed the issue with the bleed percentages being wack. tried doing this myself but I don't know what functions/keywords I'm looking for when it comes to setting DR thresholds for bleeds
Great mod, but it introduced an issue where the bleeding that is applied causes bright red patchy blood that covers the entirety the bleeding person. Do you know if there is anyway to deactivate this that you know of? or change the amount?
Wasting so much adhesive on bandages was already a pain in the ass in horizon, this just makes it worse :/ A good balance might be to edit the horizon bandage recipe to make 3-5 at a time or something. lol
using this on a new playthrough though, first human I killed was one of the gunners by Sunshine. Full heavy combat armour from the start of the game lol
Agree, and it’s not really novel/interesting gameplay if you just have to use a bandage after every fight.
I plan to keep tinkering with the specifics (% chance to bleed vs damage of the bleeding) to ensure this is an enhancement to the tension of combat rather than a chore.
I could make damage resistance impact how much bleeding damage is taken. Might help with keeping those gunners tough.
Last time I played Horizon I just edited the bandages to cost an extra antiseptic and piece of steel, and removed the adhesive cost. (safety pins and clasps are just as effective as glue for this!)
I don't even mess with that much adhesive anymore. Sometimes I just use the Craftable Adhesive mod but I've also been Xediting the adhesive out of recipes where it really makes no sense, like any straight metalworking, and then adding liquid fuel and / or higher quality metal requirements. You can also use Adrenaline Injectors to stop bleeding, which is close to real life anyway, as per Epinephrine use for bleeding control
If you use the original Wasteland Ballistics mod with Horizon you will have the following negative side effects: 1. Bleeding effects cannot be cured. 2. Limb damage will be out of whack with Horizon's intent (Wasteland Ballistics will override Horizon's settings - you might be happy with this) 3. 5.56mm, .308, .45-70 and .50cal will either be missing a Horizon keyword or not have Wasteland Ballistics impacts. (I'm not exactly sure what will break without the keyword, "ObjectTypeAmmoAddTX" however the DefUI sorting will definitely be broken for these ammos) 4. Player thrown explosives will not use the Horizon Explosives skill OR they won't have the Wasteland Ballistics shrapnel and bleed effects. 5. I would expect there to be quite a lot of weirdness with Molotovs as the effects are duplicate but applied in non-conflicting ways - so for example, you can cure the Horizon burning with water but there is no way to cure the Wasteland Ballistics burning. 6. Horizon's lockpicking and Hacking perks won't work OR some of the Wasteland Ballistics on hit effects won't apply to the player. 7. Enemy weapon range will just be totally wild as Horizon already modifies this and then Wasteland Ballistics MULTIPLIES it (this is also true for limb damages)
I'm actually surprised this is playable for you. I would expect you to be able to take about 3 bullets if Wasteland Ballistics is installed correctly and unless you are in Power Armor you will just bleed out before you have any chance to do anything about it.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. As-is right now, with the original Wasteland Ballistics you would take 1 hit from any projectile (pipe pistol damage and beyond) to instantly die. I didn't quite have a reference point, so I associated this with Horizon just having "you die if you get shot at lower levels" which seems (at least superficially) realistic. I will install this patch :)
Hiya, no worries, I’ve had a lot of fun building this and it’s nice to talk about :)
Following on from what you said, Horizon is actually quite forgiving by default. The idea being that it’s more about wearing down your resources (bandages, radway, etc) to create difficulty rather than punishing you harshly for a momentary mistake in combat. This is nice because it the difficulty can be matched by playing strategically, rather than just being the best shot in the Commonwealth.
With this in mind, I’m actually thinking of making a version where I massively nerf the bleeding speed but multiply the duration to match so it is more of a slow burn. However, I do like how at the moment when you get shot you basically have to immediately flee to patch up your wounds.
Right now the different calibres all produce a different magnitude of bleeding that is aligned with the original balancing of wasteland ballistics (e.g. 50 cal is 10x more bleeding than .22LR.)
Unfortunately: bladed weapons are all treated as equal. creatures do not cause bleeding.
The best system would be if it could somehow be directly related to the damage you received but only if it was caused by a ballistic bullet, bladed weapon or creature indicated as biting/scratching (as opposed to bludgeoning).
I’m currently testing a variant with 1/10th the bleeding for 10x as long on a 10% chance for the player. (25% chance for the NPC). This feels a lot more playable as before I was using 1 bandage every time I got shot and it was making the game extremely difficult - forcing me to steal from everyone for bandage ingredients and evacuate combat as soon as I got shot.
How does this effect creatures like deathclaws or other mighty enemies? It is just a little weird to kill the swan with just a few shots with an assault rifle :D
I haven’t faced any of these in my playthrough with this yet, however, I have removed the instant kills from crippling so that will make it slower.
The armour damage and bleed may still turn out to be OP however and I have a few plans: - exclude these creatures entirely (incl ghouls and synths as well) with the idea being that the mutations give them a Wolverine style self healing effect to prevent bleeding/compromised skin. - as discussed in another comment, nerf the bleeding effect to make it more of a slow burn in-line with Horizon’s poison effect. This would make it much less effective against creatures with high health. - remove the armour damage for enemies (this would be a last resort as I do find this feature quite immersive)
For version 0.3 I want to address the following: - allow NPCs to cure their bleeding with Adrenaline Injectors (when combined with Pack Attack they will do this) - exclude ghouls from bleeding - more testing of higher calibres both against the player and against various enemies
Other ideas I’d like feedback on: - slow burn variant (I’m thinking 10x duration, 1/10th damage) - exclude mutated creatures (maybe just for low calibres? I feel like a .50 cal should basically explode anything to giblets)
There’s a lot of customisation possible. For anyone struggling, power armour blocks bleeding (holds you together haha) which might help you out.
31 comments
I made three different effects based on Damage Resist. 0 -30, 31-99, and 100 plus.
At 0-30 I have 5% chance for bleed but man that ends up being a lot.
31-99 is 2%
100 plus is 1%
It was still a lot at 2% so I made small caliber bullets have their own chance for bleed which was a lot better. This way I'm not bleeding all over the place with .22 and .38's. I also made a separate "bleed kit" which takes an adrenaline injector so that makes it harder.
This is still a fantastic mod for me
Thanks!
A good balance might be to edit the horizon bandage recipe to make 3-5 at a time or something. lol
I plan to keep tinkering with the specifics (% chance to bleed vs damage of the bleeding) to ensure this is an enhancement to the tension of combat rather than a chore.
I could make damage resistance impact how much bleeding damage is taken. Might help with keeping those gunners tough.
You can also use Adrenaline Injectors to stop bleeding, which is close to real life anyway, as per Epinephrine use for bleeding control
What exactly does this mean? Will there be bullet sponges? Wasn't that a big part of wasteland ballistics, that headshots actually meant something?
1. Bleeding effects cannot be cured.
2. Limb damage will be out of whack with Horizon's intent (Wasteland Ballistics will override Horizon's settings - you might be happy with this)
3. 5.56mm, .308, .45-70 and .50cal will either be missing a Horizon keyword or not have Wasteland Ballistics impacts. (I'm not exactly sure what will break without the keyword, "ObjectTypeAmmoAddTX" however the DefUI sorting will definitely be broken for these ammos)
4. Player thrown explosives will not use the Horizon Explosives skill OR they won't have the Wasteland Ballistics shrapnel and bleed effects.
5. I would expect there to be quite a lot of weirdness with Molotovs as the effects are duplicate but applied in non-conflicting ways - so for example, you can cure the Horizon burning with water but there is no way to cure the Wasteland Ballistics burning.
6. Horizon's lockpicking and Hacking perks won't work OR some of the Wasteland Ballistics on hit effects won't apply to the player.
7. Enemy weapon range will just be totally wild as Horizon already modifies this and then Wasteland Ballistics MULTIPLIES it (this is also true for limb damages)
I'm actually surprised this is playable for you. I would expect you to be able to take about 3 bullets if Wasteland Ballistics is installed correctly and unless you are in Power Armor you will just bleed out before you have any chance to do anything about it.
Following on from what you said, Horizon is actually quite forgiving by default. The idea being that it’s more about wearing down your resources (bandages, radway, etc) to create difficulty rather than punishing you harshly for a momentary mistake in combat. This is nice because it the difficulty can be matched by playing strategically, rather than just being the best shot in the Commonwealth.
With this in mind, I’m actually thinking of making a version where I massively nerf the bleeding speed but multiply the duration to match so it is more of a slow burn. However, I do like how at the moment when you get shot you basically have to immediately flee to patch up your wounds.
Right now the different calibres all produce a different magnitude of bleeding that is aligned with the original balancing of wasteland ballistics (e.g. 50 cal is 10x more bleeding than .22LR.)
Unfortunately:
bladed weapons are all treated as equal.
creatures do not cause bleeding.
The best system would be if it could somehow be directly related to the damage you received but only if it was caused by a ballistic bullet, bladed weapon or creature indicated as biting/scratching (as opposed to bludgeoning).
I’m currently testing a variant with 1/10th the bleeding for 10x as long on a 10% chance for the player. (25% chance for the NPC). This feels a lot more playable as before I was using 1 bandage every time I got shot and it was making the game extremely difficult - forcing me to steal from everyone for bandage ingredients and evacuate combat as soon as I got shot.
The armour damage and bleed may still turn out to be OP however and I have a few plans:
- exclude these creatures entirely (incl ghouls and synths as well) with the idea being that the mutations give them a Wolverine style self healing effect to prevent bleeding/compromised skin.
- as discussed in another comment, nerf the bleeding effect to make it more of a slow burn in-line with Horizon’s poison effect. This would make it much less effective against creatures with high health.
- remove the armour damage for enemies (this would be a last resort as I do find this feature quite immersive)
- allow NPCs to cure their bleeding with Adrenaline Injectors (when combined with Pack Attack they will do this)
- exclude ghouls from bleeding
- more testing of higher calibres both against the player and against various enemies
Other ideas I’d like feedback on:
- slow burn variant (I’m thinking 10x duration, 1/10th damage)
- exclude mutated creatures (maybe just for low calibres? I feel like a .50 cal should basically explode anything to giblets)
There’s a lot of customisation possible. For anyone struggling, power armour blocks bleeding (holds you together haha) which might help you out.