I've been doing the rounds and updating my mods with PRP 74.x patches. While doing that I am also releasing some bug fixes and updates that have been waiting for an excuse to go live.
For Listening Post Bravo, over the three years since I've published this, I rebuilt the whole thing. It's settlement quest safe for SS2, new precombines/previs, and a little interior decorating to inspire ideas. Version 2.0 requires a new game.
-Hap
----------------
Thanks again for Calarand's original idea. They have been the inspiration for many projects in many places over the years and thanks needs to be restated!
PJM who continues to discover new ways the Vertibird won't do what we want, and yet still soldiers on to find amazing solutions or workarounds. Did you know you can fly in a vertibird all the way from Fort Strong to Nuka-World without stopping?
SKK with whom I can commiserate, when people don't read this mod's details.
And finally Glitchfinder, as their names states, continues to do so, even after you finalized the mod and are about to publish it.
Thank you. You guys are what make this hobby worth it.
Hi, I love this settlement mods but I'm having some issues with scrapping. I have the PRP version, but I can't scrapping the vines, trees or any if the rubble. The esp is on the bottom of my load order but that hasn't made a difference
For the last several weeks, I've been testing various custom settlement mods in preparation for a more thorough "reclaim the Commonwealth" playthrough I'm planning for the Minutemen. I just found this mod last week, so I decided to test it over the weekend. Here are my discoveries...
1. For scrapping, I use "Raze My Settlement," as it only targets items on the vanilla scrap lists, thereby eliminating the chance of accidentally scrapping something important. Unfortunately, it appears that the elevator terminal is on that list, so it was inadvertently scrapped. Not a big deal, as this was just a test run. But for anyone else reading this, don't use an automated scrapping mod for this settlement as it might scrap that terminal. It is a small settlement, though, so manual scrapping won't take much time.
2. I followed up with "Clean My Settlement" which "removes" most of the scrub, brambles, and so forth, including floating vines that linger after scrapping the fence.
3. The helipad has some collision issues (I think "collision" is the right term). Specifically, while the circular pad is fine, I couldn't place anything at the corners of the square platform. Items would just sink into the ground. Place Anywhere solved that problem, but for anyone not using that mod, those corners aren't viable.
4. There are similar collision "holes" in the bunker floor. I discovered these while trying to place sleeping bags. The bags placed fine in some sections but would sink into the floor in others. I "fixed" this by covering the whole floor with large area rugs and then placed the bags on top.
5. I placed a recruitment beacon, and it did draw settlers. That's a big one for me. If a custom settlement can't draw settlers with a beacon, I can't use it with the aforementioned playthrough I'm planning. Good job on this one.
6. I was able to send settlers to the settlement without issue. Not as key as a functioning beacon, but still important to my upcoming playthrough.
7. I placed down crops, water pumps, and turrets, and all properly registered with the workshop. Settlers assigned to the crops farmed them per usual.
8. The settlement registered on the pip-boy's workshop list properly. No generic "Commonwealth" entry. That's another big one. As I understand it, when a custom settlement registers as "Commonwealth" on the list, despite load order changes, this indicates that the settlement is broken. Once again, good work.
9. The happiness meter worked, which is another indicator showing whether or not a custom settlement is properly built.
10. Supply lines. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to test this. I was testing another custom settlement as well, but that one was having so many issues, I ran out of testing time for both settlements. Needless to say, I won't be using that other settlement. I do plan to test Bravo again this upcoming weekend (if not sooner) to see if supply lines work. Likewise, I want to test shops and other assignable jobs, as well as try to send settlers from the listening post to other settlements. I'll post a follow-up once testing is complete.
Final thoughts: Based on my limited testing so far, Bravo looks like a fine addition to the settlement network, and if my future tests pan out as I hope, I'll be using it in my upcoming playthrough. However, for anyone else using this mod, keep in mind that, due to its proximity to Greentop and the Slog, there is the potential for a "triangle of death" scenario similar to what happens with Sanctuary, Abernathy, and Red Rocket when all three are built up too much.
That's it for now. I hope you find these observations useful. Until next time...
I've completed my tests for this mod and, as promised, here is the follow-up to my previous post. For the record, these tests were conducted with a fresh save, separate from the test detailed in the first post. In fact, I ran these tests twice, both times with fresh saves, as I was experiencing some bugginess and wanted to be sure it wasn't just an anomaly. As such, everything below occurred during both test runs. Here goes...
1. I created a supply line from Bravo to Greentop and it worked fine. The provisioner traveled between settlements as expected, the supply line registered on the pip-boy map, and the workshops linked--at least, I think they were linked. I was switching back and forth between normal and god mode in order to build various things, so I wasn't tracking building materials very closely. But I didn't have any instances while building in normal mode where I couldn't build common items, so I'm reasonably confident that the workshops linked.
2. I was able to send settlers from Bravo to other settlements, and they arrived as expected.
3. I was able to assign settlers to scavenging stations, shops, and other jobs without issue. However...
4. Something about this settlement interferes with the workshop build menus. I didn't go through every buildable item, mind you, just those items I want to use there during my own playthrough. To be precise, I was unable to build a bar here. In fact, the bar/restaurant option wouldn't even show up in the build menu. I don't mean it was grayed out due to lack of perks/caps. I mean it was quite literally missing from the menu. After messing around with it, I found that the missing menu was dependent on where my character was standing when I opened the build menu. If I was down by the bunker, it appeared normally. But if I was up on the helipad, it did not. Also, I was able to watch the bar option vanish in real time by opening the menu by the bunker and then moving up to the helipad. Moving the opposite direction didn't have the opposite effect, however. And as stated above, I did two test runs on separate clean saves and this happened both times. For the record, I was able to build a bar at Greentop without issue, so this isn't a global bug or mod conflict (see below).
5. Although the turrets did not respawn, the protectron did. On one hand, this isn't an issue because, hey, free loot. Furthermore, I use a mod that enables dead robot scrapping, so even more free loot. Ultimately, though, it shouldn't respawn, but it does, so there's definitely something unintended going on there.
6. I figured out where the collision "holes" are coming from. You placed shack floors below the surface to mitigate this (I could "see" them in build mode), but since they're vanilla items, Raze My Settlement scrapped them. This solution works very well for the flat surfaces like the helipad and the bunker floor, but if you did this throughout the rest of the settlement, the uneven terrain made the results, shall we say, imperfect. Farmers would still sink into the ground while tending crops, and I had to use Place Anywhere in some areas to keep buildable items at surface level. I imagine building "collision mesh" (or whatever it is called) into the terrain is more involved than you wanted to deal with at the time of this mod's construction. Can't say I blame you. From what I've read, building custom settlements is tough work and one misstep can easily break the game, so using "shortcuts" that speed the process without being a danger to the overall settlement system is fairly common.
Having said all that, I know someone is bound to come along and suggest a mod conflict/load order issue is the reason for the build menu problem, but I assure you, this isn't the case. As has been recommended by every custom settlement builder/user since the dawn of time, I keep all custom settlements at the bottom of my load order, and Bravo is the last of those. In fact, there are only four mods below Bravo. The first is its radiant quest/settlement attack patch. The next two are generic patches for two other custom settlement mods (i.e., Yagichan's Lakeside Cabin and Red Rocket Settlements mods, respectively). The last is the Workshop Framework Script Override mod, which automatically sorts last. These four mods don't appear to cause build menu issues with other settlements (vanilla or custom), nor is fo4edit throwing conflicts with them. In fact, according to fo4edit, Bravo only conflicts with the ufo4p, but even then, Bravo is the conflict winner. Maybe there's a conflict the fo4edit doesn't see, but there's not much (if anything) I can do about that, and I doubt load order is the issue for the reasons stated.
So, final thoughts. The collision issues aren't a deal breaker. Yeah, it is unsightly watching a farmer sink into the ground up to their waist when tending crops, but this happens at some vanilla settlements as well, and there are some in-game workarounds for this sort of thing. Likewise, having to use Place Anywhere in locations where it shouldn't be necessary can be irksome. But for me, I want to use Bravo as a minimalistic, low population outpost, so I wasn't planning to do much building there anyway. I need only rethink the build layout a little bit. The build menu bug, well, that gives me pause. If I'm not mistaken, that's a scripting issue, and if other custom settlement builders are correct, one wonky settlement script can wreck the global settlement system.
That said, I really like this spot, and I want to use it in my upcoming "Reclaim the Commonwealth" playthrough. There aren't nearly enough "mini" settlements in this game. Almost all of the custom settlements offered on the Nexus have giant build areas, and that's just asking for conflicts with other mods (and vanilla locations) that might be set in nearby cells. That, in addition to having full settlement functionality (e.g., supply lines, happiness, recruitment beacon, etc.), makes including Bravo a no-brainer. That is until we get to the menu thing. You mentioned elsewhere that you haven't abandoned this mod, but that it isn't a priority right now. I'm cool with that. I won't be starting my next playthrough for a while either. Let's just hope your next Bravo update coincides with my playthrough. That would be swell.
That's all for now. I'm going to continue messing around with this mod (I really like it), so if I figure out the menu bug (or make any new discoveries), I'll post them here. Until then...
@hapless, Thank you for sharing your work with us! I see the mod has been updated since rsm's feedback. I am curious if the couple issues mentioned were addressed in the update, namely if there was indeed any interference with the build menu and a scripting issue?
I think any of the other quirks rsm mentioned are completely fine and among our expectations in a Beth game lol.
Hi, No, there are no changes to the build menu. The workbenches are not restricted. There might have been some other requirement to build the bar that was not satisfied?
RSM's feedback about the Protectron respawning is a warning sign. I didn't see that in my first read of the post. Some mod is overriding the cell and more specifically the zone assignment. The zone has the norespawn flag. Anything respawning in a settlement is incorrect behavior, for some reason.
The floor floating comment also lends me to believe there is another mod doing something there in RSM's loadorder.
Also, the settlement borders we're slightly increased (with the new custom border), but still within the same two original cells this mod has always occupied "claimed".
Thorough? Sure. But not high quality. When I wrote it, I was testing custom settlements in bunches and hadn't yet learned that a single busted settlement can create issue for all of the others. A good six months passed before I made the discovery, and by then, I'd tested so many custom settlements, I didn't have the energy or motivation to retest each one individually. I should retest this one, though, as it is one of the few that really stood out during my original tests.
You could...but you would need a new map marker separate from the exterior. And a few more items that I didn't build out in version 1 or 2. I did not add the various settlement markers or keywords needed for the interior.
In version 1.0, I was trying to be small and get away without breaking things. I now realize this area has very few edge conflicts with other mods, and it’s also in the middle of nowhere.
Breaking the precombines was necessary to get at some of the items baked into the background and I should have given in earlier and rebuilt them. Version 2.0, problem solved.
Since my last post, I've continued playing around with Bravo in an effort to figure out the build menu issue. I tinkered with load order a bit, but nothing changed. I found a few mods in my load order that were interfering with other parts of the game, so I removed them in the hopes that doing so would resolve the Bravo issues, but no luck. Then I remembered that SKK50's Workshop Ownership Utilities mod contains some workshop diagnostic tools that detect problems within the workshop system. So, I fired it up and ran it at Bravo, and here's what I found:
1. When I ran it down by the bunker, everything checked out fine, although it did drop a keyword warning. I'm not a programmer, so I don't know what that means, but if you're familiar with the mod, you may want to run it yourself to see the warning.
2. When I ran it on the helipad, however, the diagnostic tool did not recognize the helipad as part of the settlement; in fact, it said there was no local workshop. Again, I'm not a programmer, so I'm just guessing here, but it would appear that the helipad area isn't connected to the workshop (despite being within the build zone), and perhaps the aforementioned keyword warning has something to do with it.
Ah yes a very nice small place to settle! I have some questions before I give it a shot, though. Are the vanilla bubble turrets and stuff like that broken or will I have trouble with them attacking me and my settlers? What if I already went through quests in that area? What about scrapping capability? (I don't want to use Scrap Everything, but I use Place Everywhere, will it do the trick?) What about the vertibird pad also, does it work like intended like the one on your Cambridge Police Station Settlement? Thanks in advance!
The vanilla bubble turrets and protectron still exist. Once they are destroyed they will not respawn. Location is safe to use with existing quests, regardless of those quest statuses. Yes, use place everywhere and you will see most items can be scrapped in the area. Yes, the Helipad works like the Cambridge Police Station helipad.
So I tested out this place, it's very nice! But something is puzzling me; there are some un-scrappable fences around the vertibird landing pad, but some of the ones that can be scrapped will leave some un-scrappable leaves behind them... Same goes for a fallen tree on the side of it if I remember well (said fallen tree looks to stand above some air like magic btw, I guess it was already like that without this mod though).
Yeah, some items were never modified into proper scrapable items. If they aren't included in the precombines, then you will be able to scrap any object in the settlement buildable area. Since this area is not a vanilla settlement area, items like those were never prepared for scraping.
Couldn't you make an updated version to scrap some of those vines with the fences they're placed on top of, stuff like that? I understand if that's too much work for a result you don't want. (The mod works well anyway (except for one time where I saw the protectron and turrets respawn) and I can build around those limits, it's really good enough.)
Unfortunately, this is a less popular mod and doesn't get as much attention as my more popular ones. I cannot speak to any timeframe when I'll be open to open this mod up and make changes.
I have no intention of annoying in any way, just one more question... Do I need to complete BOS quest Blind Betrayal to unlock the settlement? Whether I have to or not, I'll still use the mod, I just wanted to know...
You want to load this before the PRP. This mod breaks the area, but the PRP (loaded after) will override the break from this mod and fix the area. The issue with this method is you sometimes lose changes in the overridden mod, but in this case, there aren’t any noticeable visual changes in the area from this mod.
37 comments
I've been doing the rounds and updating my mods with PRP 74.x patches. While doing that I am also releasing some bug fixes and updates that have been waiting for an excuse to go live.
For Listening Post Bravo, over the three years since I've published this, I rebuilt the whole thing. It's settlement quest safe for SS2, new precombines/previs, and a little interior decorating to inspire ideas. Version 2.0 requires a new game.
-Hap
----------------
Thanks again for Calarand's original idea. They have been the inspiration for many projects in many places over the years and thanks needs to be restated!
PJM who continues to discover new ways the Vertibird won't do what we want, and yet still soldiers on to find amazing solutions or workarounds. Did you know you can fly in a vertibird all the way from Fort Strong to Nuka-World without stopping?
SKK with whom I can commiserate, when people don't read this mod's details.
And finally Glitchfinder, as their names states, continues to do so, even after you finalized the mod and are about to publish it.
Thank you. You guys are what make this hobby worth it.
For the last several weeks, I've been testing various custom settlement mods in preparation for a more thorough "reclaim the Commonwealth" playthrough I'm planning for the Minutemen. I just found this mod last week, so I decided to test it over the weekend. Here are my discoveries...
1. For scrapping, I use "Raze My Settlement," as it only targets items on the vanilla scrap lists, thereby eliminating the chance of accidentally scrapping something important. Unfortunately, it appears that the elevator terminal is on that list, so it was inadvertently scrapped. Not a big deal, as this was just a test run. But for anyone else reading this, don't use an automated scrapping mod for this settlement as it might scrap that terminal. It is a small settlement, though, so manual scrapping won't take much time.
2. I followed up with "Clean My Settlement" which "removes" most of the scrub, brambles, and so forth, including floating vines that linger after scrapping the fence.
3. The helipad has some collision issues (I think "collision" is the right term). Specifically, while the circular pad is fine, I couldn't place anything at the corners of the square platform. Items would just sink into the ground. Place Anywhere solved that problem, but for anyone not using that mod, those corners aren't viable.
4. There are similar collision "holes" in the bunker floor. I discovered these while trying to place sleeping bags. The bags placed fine in some sections but would sink into the floor in others. I "fixed" this by covering the whole floor with large area rugs and then placed the bags on top.
5. I placed a recruitment beacon, and it did draw settlers. That's a big one for me. If a custom settlement can't draw settlers with a beacon, I can't use it with the aforementioned playthrough I'm planning. Good job on this one.
6. I was able to send settlers to the settlement without issue. Not as key as a functioning beacon, but still important to my upcoming playthrough.
7. I placed down crops, water pumps, and turrets, and all properly registered with the workshop. Settlers assigned to the crops farmed them per usual.
8. The settlement registered on the pip-boy's workshop list properly. No generic "Commonwealth" entry. That's another big one. As I understand it, when a custom settlement registers as "Commonwealth" on the list, despite load order changes, this indicates that the settlement is broken. Once again, good work.
9. The happiness meter worked, which is another indicator showing whether or not a custom settlement is properly built.
10. Supply lines. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to test this. I was testing another custom settlement as well, but that one was having so many issues, I ran out of testing time for both settlements. Needless to say, I won't be using that other settlement. I do plan to test Bravo again this upcoming weekend (if not sooner) to see if supply lines work. Likewise, I want to test shops and other assignable jobs, as well as try to send settlers from the listening post to other settlements. I'll post a follow-up once testing is complete.
Final thoughts: Based on my limited testing so far, Bravo looks like a fine addition to the settlement network, and if my future tests pan out as I hope, I'll be using it in my upcoming playthrough. However, for anyone else using this mod, keep in mind that, due to its proximity to Greentop and the Slog, there is the potential for a "triangle of death" scenario similar to what happens with Sanctuary, Abernathy, and Red Rocket when all three are built up too much.
That's it for now. I hope you find these observations useful. Until next time...
-RSM
I've completed my tests for this mod and, as promised, here is the follow-up to my previous post. For the record, these tests were conducted with a fresh save, separate from the test detailed in the first post. In fact, I ran these tests twice, both times with fresh saves, as I was experiencing some bugginess and wanted to be sure it wasn't just an anomaly. As such, everything below occurred during both test runs. Here goes...
1. I created a supply line from Bravo to Greentop and it worked fine. The provisioner traveled between settlements as expected, the supply line registered on the pip-boy map, and the workshops linked--at least, I think they were linked. I was switching back and forth between normal and god mode in order to build various things, so I wasn't tracking building materials very closely. But I didn't have any instances while building in normal mode where I couldn't build common items, so I'm reasonably confident that the workshops linked.
2. I was able to send settlers from Bravo to other settlements, and they arrived as expected.
3. I was able to assign settlers to scavenging stations, shops, and other jobs without issue. However...
4. Something about this settlement interferes with the workshop build menus. I didn't go through every buildable item, mind you, just those items I want to use there during my own playthrough. To be precise, I was unable to build a bar here. In fact, the bar/restaurant option wouldn't even show up in the build menu. I don't mean it was grayed out due to lack of perks/caps. I mean it was quite literally missing from the menu. After messing around with it, I found that the missing menu was dependent on where my character was standing when I opened the build menu. If I was down by the bunker, it appeared normally. But if I was up on the helipad, it did not. Also, I was able to watch the bar option vanish in real time by opening the menu by the bunker and then moving up to the helipad. Moving the opposite direction didn't have the opposite effect, however. And as stated above, I did two test runs on separate clean saves and this happened both times. For the record, I was able to build a bar at Greentop without issue, so this isn't a global bug or mod conflict (see below).
5. Although the turrets did not respawn, the protectron did. On one hand, this isn't an issue because, hey, free loot. Furthermore, I use a mod that enables dead robot scrapping, so even more free loot. Ultimately, though, it shouldn't respawn, but it does, so there's definitely something unintended going on there.
6. I figured out where the collision "holes" are coming from. You placed shack floors below the surface to mitigate this (I could "see" them in build mode), but since they're vanilla items, Raze My Settlement scrapped them. This solution works very well for the flat surfaces like the helipad and the bunker floor, but if you did this throughout the rest of the settlement, the uneven terrain made the results, shall we say, imperfect. Farmers would still sink into the ground while tending crops, and I had to use Place Anywhere in some areas to keep buildable items at surface level. I imagine building "collision mesh" (or whatever it is called) into the terrain is more involved than you wanted to deal with at the time of this mod's construction. Can't say I blame you. From what I've read, building custom settlements is tough work and one misstep can easily break the game, so using "shortcuts" that speed the process without being a danger to the overall settlement system is fairly common.
Having said all that, I know someone is bound to come along and suggest a mod conflict/load order issue is the reason for the build menu problem, but I assure you, this isn't the case. As has been recommended by every custom settlement builder/user since the dawn of time, I keep all custom settlements at the bottom of my load order, and Bravo is the last of those. In fact, there are only four mods below Bravo. The first is its radiant quest/settlement attack patch. The next two are generic patches for two other custom settlement mods (i.e., Yagichan's Lakeside Cabin and Red Rocket Settlements mods, respectively). The last is the Workshop Framework Script Override mod, which automatically sorts last. These four mods don't appear to cause build menu issues with other settlements (vanilla or custom), nor is fo4edit throwing conflicts with them. In fact, according to fo4edit, Bravo only conflicts with the ufo4p, but even then, Bravo is the conflict winner. Maybe there's a conflict the fo4edit doesn't see, but there's not much (if anything) I can do about that, and I doubt load order is the issue for the reasons stated.
So, final thoughts. The collision issues aren't a deal breaker. Yeah, it is unsightly watching a farmer sink into the ground up to their waist when tending crops, but this happens at some vanilla settlements as well, and there are some in-game workarounds for this sort of thing. Likewise, having to use Place Anywhere in locations where it shouldn't be necessary can be irksome. But for me, I want to use Bravo as a minimalistic, low population outpost, so I wasn't planning to do much building there anyway. I need only rethink the build layout a little bit. The build menu bug, well, that gives me pause. If I'm not mistaken, that's a scripting issue, and if other custom settlement builders are correct, one wonky settlement script can wreck the global settlement system.
That said, I really like this spot, and I want to use it in my upcoming "Reclaim the Commonwealth" playthrough. There aren't nearly enough "mini" settlements in this game. Almost all of the custom settlements offered on the Nexus have giant build areas, and that's just asking for conflicts with other mods (and vanilla locations) that might be set in nearby cells. That, in addition to having full settlement functionality (e.g., supply lines, happiness, recruitment beacon, etc.), makes including Bravo a no-brainer. That is until we get to the menu thing. You mentioned elsewhere that you haven't abandoned this mod, but that it isn't a priority right now. I'm cool with that. I won't be starting my next playthrough for a while either. Let's just hope your next Bravo update coincides with my playthrough. That would be swell.
That's all for now. I'm going to continue messing around with this mod (I really like it), so if I figure out the menu bug (or make any new discoveries), I'll post them here. Until then...
-RSM
I see the mod has been updated since rsm's feedback. I am curious if the couple issues mentioned were addressed in the update, namely if there was indeed any interference with the build menu and a scripting issue?
I think any of the other quirks rsm mentioned are completely fine and among our expectations in a Beth game lol.
No, there are no changes to the build menu. The workbenches are not restricted. There might have been some other requirement to build the bar that was not satisfied?
RSM's feedback about the Protectron respawning is a warning sign. I didn't see that in my first read of the post. Some mod is overriding the cell and more specifically the zone assignment. The zone has the norespawn flag. Anything respawning in a settlement is incorrect behavior, for some reason.
The floor floating comment also lends me to believe there is another mod doing something there in RSM's loadorder.
Also, the settlement borders we're slightly increased (with the new custom border), but still within the same two original cells this mod has always occupied "claimed".
I respect and take off my hat!
Breaking the precombines was necessary to get at some of the items baked into the background and I should have given in earlier and rebuilt them. Version 2.0, problem solved.
i dont see any scripts being used, (i forgot if its safe to eslify the quest record)
Since my last post, I've continued playing around with Bravo in an effort to figure out the build menu issue. I tinkered with load order a bit, but nothing changed. I found a few mods in my load order that were interfering with other parts of the game, so I removed them in the hopes that doing so would resolve the Bravo issues, but no luck. Then I remembered that SKK50's Workshop Ownership Utilities mod contains some workshop diagnostic tools that detect problems within the workshop system. So, I fired it up and ran it at Bravo, and here's what I found:
1. When I ran it down by the bunker, everything checked out fine, although it did drop a keyword warning. I'm not a programmer, so I don't know what that means, but if you're familiar with the mod, you may want to run it yourself to see the warning.
2. When I ran it on the helipad, however, the diagnostic tool did not recognize the helipad as part of the settlement; in fact, it said there was no local workshop. Again, I'm not a programmer, so I'm just guessing here, but it would appear that the helipad area isn't connected to the workshop (despite being within the build zone), and perhaps the aforementioned keyword warning has something to do with it.
That's all I have. I hope it is useful.
-RSM
Location is safe to use with existing quests, regardless of those quest statuses.
Yes, use place everywhere and you will see most items can be scrapped in the area.
Yes, the Helipad works like the Cambridge Police Station helipad.
Unfortunately, this is a less popular mod and doesn't get as much attention as my more popular ones. I cannot speak to any timeframe when I'll be open to open this mod up and make changes.
Whether I have to or not, I'll still use the mod, I just wanted to know...
(I actually never complete that quest because I use Thuggysmurf's mod, which changes/avoids that part of the story.)