Hi, ive just noticed that an upgraded pipe sniper rifle using 308 rounds (i think this mod changes it to 308 if it wasnt already?) has double the damage of a hunting rifle using the same rounds and the equivalent receiver installed. would this be some other mod affecting this or is this intended, if its intended to be this way is it safe to remove from a save?
I was forcing myself to stick to pipe weapons until level 15, at which point i would allow myself to use the "better" guns, but they weigh twice as much and are apprently much much worse than a pipe gun now.
According to the Wiki, Pipe gun deal 13 damage/shot, 10mm Pistol deals 18 damage/shot. If you buff the Pipe gun in .38 to 45, that would be a bit too much, 16 or 17 is good enough.
I think, cause Bethesda don't understand how Cartridge's are designate: 10mm=10mm real life <=> 9mm+1 .38 = 380 ACP. .45 = 45 ACP. This make sense cause 10mm is suppose to be stronger than 45 ACP, it was design to be the middle ground between Thicc 45 ACP and standard 9mm Luger round.
Historically, some revolver during ww1 still use a mild cartridge's, with power no more than 380 ACP today. 45 ACP have been use in some old revolver, conversion into pin-fire bullet for example. Never have anyone tries to make a Semi-auto pistol/carbine chamber in a revolver cartridge's, feeding from a magazine and it work reliably, NEVER. This is my defend.
For me, the Pipe gun should be: 1. Cheap as hell to make. 2. Low recoil, using 380 ACP or In the Revolver cause 45 ACP. 3. Reliable enough, will jams, but not hard to get un-jam. 4. Probably will survive a 1000 rounds firing test. 5. Turn the gun full auto and it's melted after 300 round/second. 6. Require less parts than a real gun, if parts breaks, very difficult to repair, just grab another one. 7. Inferior metal result in weaker frame, heavier gun, bigger proportion.
My ideas for rework these gun are as follows:
Pipe Pistol/Rifle: 1. Smaller and shorter magazine, visually. 2. Reduce total capacity for basic mags. 3. Reduce Recoils. 4. Buff damage to 16. 5. Heavier, we're talking about worse quality metal, which make the gun bigger but not tanky-er. 6. Longer Reload time, try to emulate a crappy detachable magazine.
Pipe Revolver: 1. Heavy, make it 4.5 instead of 4.2. Same reason as above. 2. Buff damage to 35 or 40. 3. Longer reload time, try to emulate the heavy cylinder release button.
Pipe Bolt action: 1. Longer reload time, emulate the worn out feed system. 2. Increase weight by a slight bit.
Could you make a second version your mod with my suggestion please? That would mean alot.
b) unreliable -at best low reliability - and prone to frequent misfire and/or failure and/or catastrophic failure.
c) disposable after a several dozens shots or -at most- a hundred shots fired.
d) Total lack of accuracy and require frequent repair or adjustments.
That's why I don't think this mod would it makes any sense in any F04 game I would play. Like a lot of players out there, I despise the pipe weapons, but they have their entry niche in the game world ecology. Boosting their fire power should AT LEAST augment the chance of them blowing up in the users hand. (That would be a mod I would like very much!).
BTW This is not in any form a criticism of the mod author or the mod author work. This opinion is mine, based on real world facts. Since this is a game world everyone is entitled to his or her vision of it.
To each his/her own. Maybe the mod does not fit for FO4 as an RPG. For which I don't care in any way. I find the mod makes perfect sense if you think of FO4 a bit as a survival shooter. A .38 bullet through the body is not a mere inconvenience.
I have put damage of pipe guns to 50 (.45 revolver 60, .308 bolt action 100), a torso hit on a human (140 to 200 health) would be 71 damage before armor. So you needed 2 to 3 shots for an unarmored human. Which is more or less "realistic" (what ever this may mean).
I agree with everything Radsweeper said. Pipe guns should absolutely hit harder, but I'd say slightly less hard than a properly machined gun due to likely inadequate sealing in the chamber from cobbled together parts, resulting in an overall lower pressure, which means lower bullet velocity, which ultimately means lower force upon impact.
However, the main drawbacks with pipe weapons SHOULD be their inaccuracy (too wide barrels/no rifling, plus pipes just generally being machined to looser tolerances/specifications than an actual gun barrel) and their unreliability. Really, they should be misfiring and jamming constantly, with a decent chance of simply exploding in their user's hands (made exponenentially more likely by automatic or even semi-automatic actions). Even when they are working as intended, I'd expect them to have a pretty abysmal rate of fire.
Ironically, the one type of pipe weapon that would suffer the least from the aforementioned issues and would be the simplest, easiest, and therefore most likely to actually be crafted doesn't exist in Fallout 4 at all: the pipe shotgun.
Good comments here about why pipe weapons are bad. Perhaps a middle ground would be to make pipe weapon improved receivers give a bigger benefit to them than other firearms get. Base level show shoddy work including poor seals so short range and poor damage. But upgraded pipe weapons are "real guns". I'd lower the rate of fire to reflect imprecise parts too. If modded pipe weapons were more common within a few levels they would remain dangerous to players for a while. I would really like to see something done to make pipe weapons viable, at least when fully upgraded with mods.
If we still had weapon repairs like in 3 and new vegas. I would love a gun that breaks randomly. The pipe gun could be more reliable depending on how many points in your gun skills
I use "Manual Reload Simple" with the jamming option and the chance for pipe weapons to jam set relatively high. I also use a mod which makes weapons and armor break but meanwhile it seems to be gone from the Internet.
I did not edit the leveled lists (I want to maximize compatibility with other weapon mods). Enemies should spawn with the leveled equipment they have in Vanilla or the custom changes from your other mods.
15 comments
would this be some other mod affecting this or is this intended, if its intended to be this way is it safe to remove from a save?
I was forcing myself to stick to pipe weapons until level 15, at which point i would allow myself to use the "better" guns, but they weigh twice as much and are apprently much much worse than a pipe gun now.
This is an awesome mod! It has added greatly to my game along with Nina’s pipe gun retextures.
Keep it up!
If you buff the Pipe gun in .38 to 45, that would be a bit too much, 16 or 17 is good enough.
I think, cause Bethesda don't understand how Cartridge's are designate:
10mm=10mm real life <=> 9mm+1
.38 = 380 ACP.
.45 = 45 ACP.
This make sense cause 10mm is suppose to be stronger than 45 ACP, it was design to be the middle ground between Thicc 45 ACP and standard 9mm Luger round.
Historically, some revolver during ww1 still use a mild cartridge's, with power no more than 380 ACP today.
45 ACP have been use in some old revolver, conversion into pin-fire bullet for example.
Never have anyone tries to make a Semi-auto pistol/carbine chamber in a revolver cartridge's, feeding from a magazine and it work reliably, NEVER.
This is my defend.
For me, the Pipe gun should be:
1. Cheap as hell to make.
2. Low recoil, using 380 ACP or In the Revolver cause 45 ACP.
3. Reliable enough, will jams, but not hard to get un-jam.
4. Probably will survive a 1000 rounds firing test.
5. Turn the gun full auto and it's melted after 300 round/second.
6. Require less parts than a real gun, if parts breaks, very difficult to repair, just grab another one.
7. Inferior metal result in weaker frame, heavier gun, bigger proportion.
My ideas for rework these gun are as follows:
Pipe Pistol/Rifle:
1. Smaller and shorter magazine, visually.
2. Reduce total capacity for basic mags.
3. Reduce Recoils.
4. Buff damage to 16.
5. Heavier, we're talking about worse quality metal, which make the gun bigger but not tanky-er.
6. Longer Reload time, try to emulate a crappy detachable magazine.
Pipe Revolver:
1. Heavy, make it 4.5 instead of 4.2. Same reason as above.
2. Buff damage to 35 or 40.
3. Longer reload time, try to emulate the heavy cylinder release button.
Pipe Bolt action:
1. Longer reload time, emulate the worn out feed system.
2. Increase weight by a slight bit.
Could you make a second version your mod with my suggestion please?
That would mean alot.
IMHO, by definition, pipe weapons should be:
a) dirt cheap
b) unreliable -at best low reliability - and prone to frequent misfire and/or failure and/or catastrophic failure.
c) disposable after a several dozens shots or -at most- a hundred shots fired.
d) Total lack of accuracy and require frequent repair or adjustments.
That's why I don't think this mod would it makes any sense in any F04 game I would play. Like a lot of players out there, I despise the pipe weapons, but they have their entry niche in the game world ecology. Boosting their fire power should AT LEAST augment the chance of them blowing up in the users hand. (That would be a mod I would like very much!).
BTW This is not in any form a criticism of the mod author or the mod author work. This opinion is mine, based on real world facts. Since this is a game world everyone is entitled to his or her vision of it.
I have put damage of pipe guns to 50 (.45 revolver 60, .308 bolt action 100), a torso hit on a human (140 to 200 health) would be 71 damage before armor. So you needed 2 to 3 shots for an unarmored human. Which is more or less "realistic" (what ever this may mean).
However, the main drawbacks with pipe weapons SHOULD be their inaccuracy (too wide barrels/no rifling, plus pipes just generally being machined to looser tolerances/specifications than an actual gun barrel) and their unreliability. Really, they should be misfiring and jamming constantly, with a decent chance of simply exploding in their user's hands (made exponenentially more likely by automatic or even semi-automatic actions). Even when they are working as intended, I'd expect them to have a pretty abysmal rate of fire.
Ironically, the one type of pipe weapon that would suffer the least from the aforementioned issues and would be the simplest, easiest, and therefore most likely to actually be crafted doesn't exist in Fallout 4 at all: the pipe shotgun.