I didn't get a chance yet to balance the crafting recipes for each item in regards to how many legendary component scraps each new recipes requires. Right now I have them all set at 4. You get 1 for each legendary item you scrap. If any one has input on how many certain effects should cost for the sake of balance, post your opinions in replies to this comment and I'll consider your input when I get to work on those tommorow.
I suggest no scraps. Just allow the removal of the legendary effect to it's miscmod form so you can save it for use on a different item later. This way it makes the more uncommon legendary effects more gratifying to find. I've noticed you set the value for the miscmods pretty high, so the "common" legendary miscmods could also be a good stash of caps.
I think scraping and removing the legendary mod from items can both work since some players like to have only 1 weapon of each type, and it also saves a lot of time when you want to just take the legendary effect from may items
Yes, what ChaoticLogic suggested. Like the bog-standard legendary mod mods let you do. You can remove the legendary effect from one item, and apply it to another.
I wasn't looking for opinion on the functionality. Both taking off and being able to place it something else, and scrapping to craft new ones are here to stay. I'm looking for opinions on which effects belong on what tiers in terms of quality of the legendary effect for balancing the difficulty to craft it.
4 crafting mats is reasonable starting point for crafting legendaries at the bench. Some of the effects, like two shot, explosive, wounding, and chameleon I might weigh a little higher, or even add additional component requirements (nuclear material, lead, fiber optics, circuitry, etc).
Not related to component costs - I have to say I'm not a huge fan of the high and seemingly arbitrary perk requirements. It seems superfluous to ask me to train 3 ranks in blacksmith just so I can craft Wounding on a gun, for instance - or gun nut for a melee char. I'd suggest locking them behind science/scrapper if you're trying to level/perk gate, but I still think it's a bit unnecessary due to the relative rarity of legendary mobs.
So ... for a long time I've used the crafting only version of Love to Craft - Legendary, since I mostly play on a nerfed version of Survival and see lots of legendary mobs. Even had a merged version of it that I thought about releasing a VIS-G compatible version of (removing the Featured Item goodies, but that doesn't actually crash me turns out). One of the things I really like about that mod is that it doesn't just gate things behind max rank armorsmith or blacksmith (though it does often require at least SOMEthing in those perks). But it also factors other roleplay appropriate perks.
IE. While a lot of times a low-to-mid version of Armorsmith or Blacksmith is necessary, the Acid Soaker? Just requires Chemist 3. Troubleshooter's (damage vs. robots)? Bloody Mess and Robotics. Etc. It just really feels like it rewards roleplay rather than simply investing in crafting abilities. Since your're asking for feedback (and since that author allows using his mod freely) I'd suggest looking there for inspiration. /2 coppers :)
I know this might be impossible, but i would like to see that if you don't have all the perks, it takes more legendary parts.
Barring that - I would think that reduce the perks a bit, and make the base cost in parts 4.
PERKS -------------------------------- Most are too high, for example falling damage? 4 armorer? Now, the problem here is that some legendary effects suck - and instead of making a tier with perks for BOTH parts and PERKS, I would just stick with parts. Reduce all the perks, maybe to one or two ranks, max. Use the parts tier as the gate keeper.
PARTS COSTS----------------------- Then make the best stuff, 6. EXAMPLES: Crap stuff: 2 parts * reduced damage against X (too subjective) * Blazing (too hard to happen) * Safecraker * chance for disarm enemy when you get hit in melee (at 10%, this sucks - what hits the most in melee? critters with no weapons. lame effect). * + 1 stat * etc. Good Stuff: 4 parts * + 2 to a single stat * Furious effect * +50% damage to a type of enemy * Do something when you are below X health. The stuff you really want: 6 Parts * wounding * freeze * plasma * instigating * chameleon * two shot * etc. Really Freakin good: 8 parts * explosive * +3 to a stat * Grognak armor (this is amazing....IF you are melee person)
On the parts cost there is never going to be consensus. For me davethepak's proposal could be a good starting point. No doubt you have your own ideas, and for sure you'll get feedback once folks actually are using it. On the perks side, I think there needs to be a distinction between taking off/putting on, and crafting legendary effects. Moving an effect from one item to another could require just one rank in the perk, or perks, appropriate to the legendary effect. Crafting, however, should require higher levels of one or more appropriate perks, as Rusey outlined above, because crafting is a more complex, demanding process that simply moving a legendary effect.
Thank you for sharing and asking the community for input. Many mod authors don't, and it is appreciated.
I guess I would just summarize my comments like this; If the perks are high, the parts should be lower. If the perks are low (Rank 1 or less) the parts should be higher. Better effects should take an extra part (or two).
I'm kinda torn on this mod. I like the functionality it adds, but I feel like it needs some restrictions. Maybe high level perk requirements (maybe even going beyond just crafting perks). Maybe a legendary mod crafting bench. Maybe removing a legendary mod utterly destroys the original weapon/armor. Maybe all of the above. I hope you're still planning on balancing this somehow.
yeah I've got some neat ideas for how to balance the magical ones like explosive/flaming/irradiated bullets and the like, don't want to spoiler them though because they're funny.
Balance-wise, the best weapon effects combo with either one-shot or rapid-fire/spread weapons. So e.g. Wounding, Plasma-Infused, Kneecapper, Freezing (auto); Instigator (1-shot).
Meh effects are those that don't play well with either e.g. Two-Shot; or apply a flat bonus e.g. Incinerating.
i agree with some of the other post above me, but i also like the idea needing the right workbench in order to make this work, while i think being able to take off a mod and use it later, or scrap that also for parts while saying that i think it be cool get just get normal wounding/ bleeding effect when ever u get shot with a solid round, or burn or the later when hit with said energy weapon.
making it require less perks would be great for builds that are not set up to use such perks, to make point of that i think having the right perks to make the workbench in order to to make some mods for weapon might of work better. (or somehow count what perk each follower or NPC u have in order to make this work. (like each follower or NPC would do there part in making such weapon) or in towns have a NPC that would do this for youn all u have to do is ether pay caps, and or resources... or having higher resource you might need in-order to make said mod while some i think may not need as much jut far less or none..
I don't think it is possible to balance the crafting in a sensible way, because Bethesda completely messed up the entire legendary system.
For example the Kneecapper effect is absurd, with any automatic weapon you can permanently incapacitate any melee actors with a single burst. Also ranged actors will drop and can only retaliate in the direction they were facing when the kneecapper hit them. Likewise the stacking of certain other effects, example VATS cost reduction can be stacked to 100%, so you can always chain the maximum number of attacks (16) and repeat that infinitely without spending a single action point. Or that the Wounding effect stacks with itself (and works on Robots!) is hilarious.
So no matter what requirements you put in, if people feel that they *need* to use an effect just because it trivializes the (otherwise pretty tough Survival Mode) gameplay, they will do whatever it takes to unlock it ASAP. Instead the focus should be on nerfing/buffing/replacing effects, then the crafting requirements could be relatively moderate. You already have Scrapper II which is a perk that most people use anyways, and maybe Science could be the key for everything else. Then you don't have to resort to exotic/useless perks like Bloody Mess or Lead Belly, and stick to actual crafting perks instead.
Perhaps it could also work that you would have to "disenchant" an effect to "learn" it?
Examples how i would change the effects, to get closer to how decent Action RPGs work:
Spoiler:
Show
1) Kneecapper: > This effect now only works with melee/unarmed attacks > (ranged playstyles already got the Staggering effect, several perks to stagger/knockdown/disarm, explosives, AI pathing abuse, etc) > Greatly increased proc chance to 30-35%, and perhaps 100% for sneak- and unblocked power attacks > This effect is now temporary (~10s?) > Once affected, targets are immune to further procs for 3*[effect duration]
2) VATS Enhancing (Armor): > Lowered the AP cost reduction so a full set including weapon only gives ~50% or less > Ranged attacks gain extra VATS hit chance (1-5%?), alternatively a very minor weapon accuracy/range bonus > Melee attacks gain something like extra crit build-up or a few% extra damage (melee certainly needs a damage buff)
3) VATS Enhancing (Weapon): > Nerfed the melee version to 15% AP cost, add the same bonus like for armor above.
4) Wounding > Robots and other non-organic NPCs are immune > This effect no longer stacks > This effect now deals significantly more DPS and lasts longer
5) Poisoner (Weapon) > Robots and other non-organic NPCs are immune > This effect no longer stacks > Affected targets deal (20-30%) less damage and/or take (10-25%) more damage for the duration
So the legendary effects would expand upon the perk system, and present actually viable choices to the player to enhance their playstyle. Instead of having a whole bunch of useless- and a few must-have effects. Then the crafting also makes sense.
And then you can also remove the swappable legendary mods, which are the very essence of gameplay and loot progress unbalance. Example you find a useful effect on a Walking Cane or Light Raider Armor at level 1, then keep swapping this mod around for the rest of the entire game. You also can't use the Silencer from your Pipe Pistol on a Gauss Rifle, so why should that work with legendaries? Simultaneously i would also remove all legendaries from vendors (and freebies like Big Jim), which i always thought to be an extremely poor design idea.
aI think the most balanced way is without legendary scraps, - only with taking off leg. mods and putting those back on on another weapon\armor, that way you still have to find cool\OP effects before you use them, makes you hunt for them making game more interesting, yet still rather rewarding ad OP (cuz ANY weapon\armor piece would do now), yet still not as OP as with scraps (you find 4 useless leg-s and make 1 uber-OP one)
Finally found a way to clone multiple Legendary Component Scap! Note: The "Help" console command won't work in getting the ID btw.
1) First you will need 2 things - At least a level 2 for the [Scrapper] PERK - A legendary weapon/armor that you're willing to scrap and lost forever (any lousy ones)
2) Drop that legendary item on the ground, go into workshop mode, and scrap it. You should see that one of the junk you get out of it is a "Legendary Component Scrap"
3) Go to console [~], type "player.inv" This will show the ID of everything in your personal inventory at that time From there you can already identify the "ID" of the "Legendary Component Scrap" (It should be right there at the last entry)
4) Remain at console, next you type "player.additem xxxxxxxx 999"(xxxxxxxx is the ID) And there you go, now you have 999 of it.
My last playthrough was 2 years ago and I used this mod but in my current I'm experiencing a weird issue. the legendary slot on items appears sometimes in the workbench when selecting the item, but only for a split second before disappearing. Scrapping does not yield anything other than the components I would get from the non-legendary variant of the item.
Works great for weapons. Armor scrapping provides no crafting resource material. and if you make any change at all to your armor mods ALL of the armor you applied legendary applications to is lost and you have to do it all over again. with a zero balance resource material inventory. yet for some reason none of the weapon changes are wiped. it's cool - frustrating to say the least- but somewhat useful.
Sounds like you may have a conflict with another mod in your game, or perhaps this mod is not installed correctly. I've used this mod for several playthroughs without any of the problems you're experiencing. No problems scrapping or modifying weapons or armor.
This is an ancient post but I am having the same issue as well. Weapons give me legendary when i scrap. Armor does not. What other mods are you using that do anything to armor? I have AWKCR, Armorsmith Extended, and UCO. Those are the three main things that mess with armor. Supposedly UCO has some kind of legendary thing but it was always an empty slot for me in the crafting menu.
I would suggest you put this tidbit of info in the description. I fiddled with NMM for half an hour, assuming there was something wrong with the mod, before I came here and found this answer.
Edit- My apologies, I wasn't paying attention and thought you were the mod author. Leaving this up so they might see it, even though I come off like an ignoramus lol
Ohhhhhhh. That's why it was doing this. I've had previous playthroughs where by the time I have legendaries I've had 2 ranks, due to using the Skills Returned mod.
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If any one has input on how many certain effects should cost for the sake of balance, post your opinions in replies to this comment and I'll consider your input when I get to work on those tommorow.
Like the bog-standard legendary mod mods let you do.
You can remove the legendary effect from one item, and apply it to another.
I'm looking for opinions on which effects belong on what tiers in terms of quality of the legendary effect for balancing the difficulty to craft it.
Not related to component costs - I have to say I'm not a huge fan of the high and seemingly arbitrary perk requirements. It seems superfluous to ask me to train 3 ranks in blacksmith just so I can craft Wounding on a gun, for instance - or gun nut for a melee char. I'd suggest locking them behind science/scrapper if you're trying to level/perk gate, but I still think it's a bit unnecessary due to the relative rarity of legendary mobs.
IE. While a lot of times a low-to-mid version of Armorsmith or Blacksmith is necessary, the Acid Soaker? Just requires Chemist 3. Troubleshooter's (damage vs. robots)? Bloody Mess and Robotics. Etc. It just really feels like it rewards roleplay rather than simply investing in crafting abilities. Since your're asking for feedback (and since that author allows using his mod freely) I'd suggest looking there for inspiration. /2 coppers :)
I know this might be impossible, but i would like to see that if you don't have all the perks, it takes more legendary parts.
Barring that - I would think that reduce the perks a bit, and make the base cost in parts 4.
PERKS --------------------------------
Most are too high, for example falling damage? 4 armorer?
Now, the problem here is that some legendary effects suck - and instead of making a tier with perks for BOTH parts and PERKS, I would just stick with parts.
Reduce all the perks, maybe to one or two ranks, max. Use the parts tier as the gate keeper.
PARTS COSTS-----------------------
Then make the best stuff, 6.
EXAMPLES:
Crap stuff: 2 parts
* reduced damage against X (too subjective)
* Blazing (too hard to happen)
* Safecraker
* chance for disarm enemy when you get hit in melee (at 10%, this sucks - what hits the most in melee? critters with no weapons. lame effect).
* + 1 stat
* etc.
Good Stuff: 4 parts
* + 2 to a single stat
* Furious effect
* +50% damage to a type of enemy
* Do something when you are below X health.
The stuff you really want: 6 Parts
* wounding
* freeze
* plasma
* instigating
* chameleon
* two shot
* etc.
Really Freakin good: 8 parts
* explosive
* +3 to a stat
* Grognak armor (this is amazing....IF you are melee person)
Hope this helps.
On the perks side, I think there needs to be a distinction between taking off/putting on, and crafting legendary effects. Moving an effect from one item to another could require just one rank in the perk, or perks, appropriate to the legendary effect. Crafting, however, should require higher levels of one or more appropriate perks, as Rusey outlined above, because crafting is a more complex, demanding process that simply moving a legendary effect.
I guess I would just summarize my comments like this;
If the perks are high, the parts should be lower.
If the perks are low (Rank 1 or less) the parts should be higher.
Better effects should take an extra part (or two).
Looking forward to the future.
Meh effects are those that don't play well with either e.g. Two-Shot; or apply a flat bonus e.g. Incinerating.
making it require less perks would be great for builds that are not set up to use such perks, to make point of that i think having the right perks to make the workbench in order to to make some mods for weapon might of work better. (or somehow count what perk each follower or NPC u have in order to make this work. (like each follower or NPC would do there part in making such weapon) or in towns have a NPC that would do this for youn all u have to do is ether pay caps, and or resources... or having higher resource you might need in-order to make said mod while some i think may not need as much jut far less or none..
For example the Kneecapper effect is absurd, with any automatic weapon you can permanently incapacitate any melee actors with a single burst. Also ranged actors will drop and can only retaliate in the direction they were facing when the kneecapper hit them.
Likewise the stacking of certain other effects, example VATS cost reduction can be stacked to 100%, so you can always chain the maximum number of attacks (16) and repeat that infinitely without spending a single action point. Or that the Wounding effect stacks with itself (and works on Robots!) is hilarious.
So no matter what requirements you put in, if people feel that they *need* to use an effect just because it trivializes the (otherwise pretty tough Survival Mode) gameplay, they will do whatever it takes to unlock it ASAP.
Instead the focus should be on nerfing/buffing/replacing effects, then the crafting requirements could be relatively moderate. You already have Scrapper II which is a perk that most people use anyways, and maybe Science could be the key for everything else. Then you don't have to resort to exotic/useless perks like Bloody Mess or Lead Belly, and stick to actual crafting perks instead.
Perhaps it could also work that you would have to "disenchant" an effect to "learn" it?
Examples how i would change the effects, to get closer to how decent Action RPGs work:
1) Kneecapper:
> This effect now only works with melee/unarmed attacks
> (ranged playstyles already got the Staggering effect, several perks to stagger/knockdown/disarm, explosives, AI pathing abuse, etc)
> Greatly increased proc chance to 30-35%, and perhaps 100% for sneak- and unblocked power attacks
> This effect is now temporary (~10s?)
> Once affected, targets are immune to further procs for 3*[effect duration]
2) VATS Enhancing (Armor):
> Lowered the AP cost reduction so a full set including weapon only gives ~50% or less
> Ranged attacks gain extra VATS hit chance (1-5%?), alternatively a very minor weapon accuracy/range bonus
> Melee attacks gain something like extra crit build-up or a few% extra damage (melee certainly needs a damage buff)
3) VATS Enhancing (Weapon):
> Nerfed the melee version to 15% AP cost, add the same bonus like for armor above.
4) Wounding
> Robots and other non-organic NPCs are immune
> This effect no longer stacks
> This effect now deals significantly more DPS and lasts longer
5) Poisoner (Weapon)
> Robots and other non-organic NPCs are immune
> This effect no longer stacks
> Affected targets deal (20-30%) less damage and/or take (10-25%) more damage for the duration
So the legendary effects would expand upon the perk system, and present actually viable choices to the player to enhance their playstyle. Instead of having a whole bunch of useless- and a few must-have effects.
Then the crafting also makes sense.
And then you can also remove the swappable legendary mods, which are the very essence of gameplay and loot progress unbalance. Example you find a useful effect on a Walking Cane or Light Raider Armor at level 1, then keep swapping this mod around for the rest of the entire game. You also can't use the Silencer from your Pipe Pistol on a Gauss Rifle, so why should that work with legendaries?
Simultaneously i would also remove all legendaries from vendors (and freebies like Big Jim), which i always thought to be an extremely poor design idea.
Note: The "Help" console command won't work in getting the ID btw.
1) First you will need 2 things
- At least a level 2 for the [Scrapper] PERK
- A legendary weapon/armor that you're willing to scrap and lost forever (any lousy ones)
2) Drop that legendary item on the ground, go into workshop mode, and scrap it.
You should see that one of the junk you get out of it is a "Legendary Component Scrap"
3) Go to console [~], type "player.inv"
This will show the ID of everything in your personal inventory at that time
From there you can already identify the "ID" of the "Legendary Component Scrap" (It should be right there at the last entry)
4) Remain at console, next you type "player.additem xxxxxxxx 999"(xxxxxxxx is the ID)
And there you go, now you have 999 of it.
Armor scrapping provides no crafting resource material.
and if you make any change at all to your armor mods ALL of the armor you applied legendary applications to is lost and you have to do it all over again.
with a zero balance resource material inventory. yet for some reason none of the weapon changes are wiped.
it's cool - frustrating to say the least- but somewhat useful.
I've used this mod for several playthroughs without any of the problems you're experiencing. No problems scrapping or modifying weapons or armor.
What other mods are you using that do anything to armor? I have AWKCR, Armorsmith Extended, and UCO. Those are the three main things that mess with armor. Supposedly UCO has some kind of legendary thing but it was always an empty slot for me in the crafting menu.
(The legendary scrap is treated the same way as vanilla "rare" components.)
Tnen just scrap something with a legendary effect and you'll automatically create "legendary scrap" that can be used to make new legendary effects.
Edit- My apologies, I wasn't paying attention and thought you were the mod author. Leaving this up so they might see it, even though I come off like an ignoramus lol
(The legendary scrap is treated the same way as vanilla "rare" components.)