.223 and later the 5.56 was designed for rifles it being a small caliber does not alter that development, it is 100% a rifle round
carbine has nothing to do with round, but rather the size of the rifle itself typically a carbine is 17.5" as it provides a decent compromise, but as long as it's under 20" it's a carbine (assuming it is a rifle in the first place) the M1 garand fired a .30 for instance, and came in both the carbine and the "normal" version or the M16A2 and the M4A1 almost every rifle ever used by the military has a carbine and a standard version, most weapons on the civilian market either have a carbine variety, or can be altered (with ATf approval ofc) to have one
more importantly though, the .45 has been used in rifles since it's early history the .45 long colt was a revolver round that was quickly adopted for use in lever action rifles and used extensively by the U.S army (modified as usual) because it provided better range, penetration and accuracy over the .44 they were using
and even today the .45 acp is a revised version of the .45 colt that allows it to be used in semi and automatic weaponry assuming that in the FO universe they altered the .45 as semi automatics and automatics came about, there is little reason they wouldn't put it into a rifle
if not for weight concerns the 5.56 would've never came about, in fallout the military seems to have mostly gone for big guns and weaponry with large holes, so there is little reason for them not to choose the .45 over the 5.56 (fragmentation does alot of damage, but given what is shown about this military it's not a goal, they're still in the "just kill the bastard" mentality that we were in the world wars)
To clarify: - When I said the .45 was a pistol round, I am referring to the type of .45 round that is likely used in game: .45 ACP. This is the round used in the venerable Colt .45 (AKA M1911) pistol used by the US military in WWI, WWII, and many others. This is also the round used in the M1 Thompson Sub-machine gun. AKA the "Tommy Gun", which the vanilla SMG in FO4 greatly resembles. So that's my logic on why the .45 round in game is a pistol round. - The 5.56 ammo in game is likely that of 5.56 x 45 mm NATO, which is a rifle round, even if it's only an "Assault Rifle" round, and not a "Battle Rifle" Round. It's used in a wide variety of modern weapons. The most well known of them is the M-16 family of rifles, used as the main infantry rifle of the US military since the Vietnam war.
While the typical military rifles chambered in 5.56 NATO are not "Battle Rifles" (roughly defined as rifles using larger rounds, such as .308, 30-06, etc.), they are still classed as "Assault Rifles". These can be roughly defined as external magazine fed rifles chambered in an intermediate caliber. With an intermediate caliber usually meaning a round in between those commonly used in pistols (ex. .38 Special, 9mm luger, .45 ACP) and those commonly used in "Battle Rifles". Two prime examples of common intermediate rounds are 5.56 x 45 mm NATO, and 7.62 x 39 mm. Each used in the M-16 and AK-47, respectively.
The 5.56 round was derived from .223 Remington it's 100% a pistol round save for later types specifically made for rifles. The original incarnation that is likely the one being used in game fits into pistols. 5.56 x 45mm ammo, frankly its pointless to compare because any variety of 5.56 or .223 ammo was developed after the split in the timeline from our own, I digress if it is any real life variety more than likely it's the first iteration which was entirely a pistol round. This is backed up by the .223 pistols present in new vegas (granted the game refers to them as 5.56 but it's clearly the same gun from fallout 1 and 2) fitting both types of ammunition, were they 5.56 x 45mm the 5.56 ammo would not fit. Most carbines also use pistol ammunition due to the shortened barrel length that most rifle rounds won't function with due to them requiring a longer barrel. I mentioned them because the rifle in game isn't a short barrel rifle and has no reason to be firing pistol rounds of any sort. Again I get what you were trying to do, just the specific change makes no sense historically. Change the caliber to whatever you wish, personally the .45 make more sense to me being it was used in rifles by your own admission and its unlikely the game uses a later variant of the ammunition type.
I think the intention with this gun was to be modular, capable of being a carbine or a rifle. while the addition of 5.56 caliber is correct and makes sense, saying .45 ACP doesn't belong just isn't right. there are many examples of .45 ACP carbines.
this rifle is a blend of PPSh and a BAR, and doesn't exist in the real world, so who's to say what it's native caliber should be. commonwealth conversions are also something to consider lore wise. use what you got
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO fits time scale and lore also the 5.56 was never developed for a pistol it was and always will be a intermediate rifle cartage. the .223 pistol in new vegas was a rifle that was cut down into a pistol form. if you didnt know this weapon was an easter egg from the movie blade runner http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/.223_pistol
Thanks for making this. Not actually using it, downloaded to see your changes and moved them into my own big merged custom .esp (I use a mod that adds other versions of the combat rifle as an item, so I need to populate the change across).
Rather than create a new LL for the combat rifle's ammo, you can use the existing list LL_Ammo_556, which is the one the vanilla Assault rifle (And 5.56 turrets, along with a few other things) use.
This change also makes the Far Harbor unique weapon "December's Child" significantly less so, since the legendary effect on that one is to use 5.56 + have the Rapid effect. For myself I've switched it over to using 7.62 for that effect, although adding this effect to your mod would make it require both FH and Nuka World.
Do you mean a merged version of my mods "Combat Rifle Rechambered to 5.56" and "Machine Gun to Assault Rifle .308"?
I could make one if there's enough demand, but I wanted them separate so people could pick and choose what they wanted.
Another thing you could do is use FO4Edit to "merge" the two mods together. Load up CRRto556 & MGtoAR308 in FO4Edit. Then copy over the files from one to the other (they won't conflict. I know, I made them.), or to a whole new plugin. Then save and disable or uninstall the no longer needed plugins.
I was surveying the mods, thinking to myself that maybe I should look for a mod that do exactly what this mod do...and find it the very next minute? This is mad coincidence! XD
Yeah. I made this mod because I was looking for a mod to do exactly, and only, what this mod does. Just something simple with a light footprint. I found some that were close, but not quite what I was looking for. So I made one.
Hi! I like the changes you made in this and your other mod. What i want to know is whether these can be used in an existing save without any issue. Thanks.
Yeah, this mod can be used in an existing save without issue. Just keep in mind that enemies already spawned in game may have 5.56 ammo on them instead of .308.
19 comments
it being a small caliber does not alter that development, it is 100% a rifle round
carbine has nothing to do with round, but rather the size of the rifle itself
typically a carbine is 17.5" as it provides a decent compromise, but as long as it's under 20" it's a carbine (assuming it is a rifle in the first place)
the M1 garand fired a .30 for instance, and came in both the carbine and the "normal" version
or the M16A2 and the M4A1
almost every rifle ever used by the military has a carbine and a standard version, most weapons on the civilian market either have a carbine variety, or can be altered (with ATf approval ofc) to have one
more importantly though, the .45 has been used in rifles since it's early history
the .45 long colt was a revolver round that was quickly adopted for use in lever action rifles and used extensively by the U.S army
(modified as usual) because it provided better range, penetration and accuracy over the .44 they were using
and even today the .45 acp is a revised version of the .45 colt that allows it to be used in semi and automatic weaponry
assuming that in the FO universe they altered the .45 as semi automatics and automatics came about, there is little reason they wouldn't put it into a rifle
if not for weight concerns the 5.56 would've never came about, in fallout the military seems to have mostly gone for big guns and weaponry with large holes, so there is little reason for them not to choose the .45 over the 5.56 (fragmentation does alot of damage, but given what is shown about this military it's not a goal, they're still in the "just kill the bastard" mentality that we were in the world wars)
- When I said the .45 was a pistol round, I am referring to the type of .45 round that is likely used in game: .45 ACP. This is the round used in the venerable Colt .45 (AKA M1911) pistol used by the US military in WWI, WWII, and many others. This is also the round used in the M1 Thompson Sub-machine gun. AKA the "Tommy Gun", which the vanilla SMG in FO4 greatly resembles. So that's my logic on why the .45 round in game is a pistol round.
- The 5.56 ammo in game is likely that of 5.56 x 45 mm NATO, which is a rifle round, even if it's only an "Assault Rifle" round, and not a "Battle Rifle" Round. It's used in a wide variety of modern weapons. The most well known of them is the M-16 family of rifles, used as the main infantry rifle of the US military since the Vietnam war.
While the typical military rifles chambered in 5.56 NATO are not "Battle Rifles" (roughly defined as rifles using larger rounds, such as .308, 30-06, etc.), they are still classed as "Assault Rifles". These can be roughly defined as external magazine fed rifles chambered in an intermediate caliber. With an intermediate caliber usually meaning a round in between those commonly used in pistols (ex. .38 Special, 9mm luger, .45 ACP) and those commonly used in "Battle Rifles". Two prime examples of common intermediate rounds are 5.56 x 45 mm NATO, and 7.62 x 39 mm. Each used in the M-16 and AK-47, respectively.
Most carbines also use pistol ammunition due to the shortened barrel length that most rifle rounds won't function with due to them requiring a longer barrel. I mentioned them because the rifle in game isn't a short barrel rifle and has no reason to be firing pistol rounds of any sort. Again I get what you were trying to do, just the specific change makes no sense historically. Change the caliber to whatever you wish, personally the .45 make more sense to me being it was used in rifles by your own admission and its unlikely the game uses a later variant of the ammunition type.
while the addition of 5.56 caliber is correct and makes sense, saying .45 ACP doesn't belong just isn't right. there are many examples of .45 ACP carbines.
this rifle is a blend of PPSh and a BAR, and doesn't exist in the real world, so who's to say what it's native caliber should be.
commonwealth conversions are also something to consider lore wise. use what you got
fits time scale and lore also the 5.56 was never developed for a pistol it was and always will be a intermediate rifle cartage. the .223 pistol in new vegas was a rifle that was cut down into a pistol form. if you didnt know this weapon was an easter egg from the movie blade runner
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/.223_pistol
Rather than create a new LL for the combat rifle's ammo, you can use the existing list LL_Ammo_556, which is the one the vanilla Assault rifle (And 5.56 turrets, along with a few other things) use.
This change also makes the Far Harbor unique weapon "December's Child" significantly less so, since the legendary effect on that one is to use 5.56 + have the Rapid effect. For myself I've switched it over to using 7.62 for that effect, although adding this effect to your mod would make it require both FH and Nuka World.
a future update maybe?
please have mercy on my groning load order!
I could make one if there's enough demand, but I wanted them separate so people could pick and choose what they wanted.
Another thing you could do is use FO4Edit to "merge" the two mods together. Load up CRRto556 & MGtoAR308 in FO4Edit. Then copy over the files from one to the other (they won't conflict. I know, I made them.), or to a whole new plugin. Then save and disable or uninstall the no longer needed plugins.
AR to MG 308 and CRR to 556 Combined
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/30938/
I was surveying the mods, thinking to myself that maybe I should look for a mod that do exactly what this mod do...and find it the very next minute? This is mad coincidence! XD