Hey all, with the shift to Vortex, I decided to make use of the plugin groups and rules and wanted to share these. It takes quite some time to set up, but has made updates easier to accomplish using Vortex. Anyway, I have more mods than what are in BRBs list, but generally have used this load order as my basis for setting up mods (great job again, BRB!).
What is shown below are the Groups that I have established (both default and created ones to map closely to what BRB has laid out here, and some plugin rules to augment those group ordering. Combined, this allows for the use of the "Sort" functionality within Vortex, while also keeping your mods ordered based on BRB's guidance here.
NOTE 1: This does deviate from BRB's guidance of not using Sort features, but it does so while respecting both the features included in Vortex and also with a mind to preserve the suggested load order BRB set forth.
Also, apologies for all the screenshots. I tried looking for a nice export feature within Vortex to be able to get that to a pretty list, but no dice.
NOTE 2: Installation Mod Conflict Resolution. I wanted to keep the number of screenshots to a minimum, as there are already a ton here in this post. Anyway, when installing my mods, any time there was a conflict during the install/enabling of the mod via Vortex, I further went and added rules on both sides of the conflict with the appropriate actions for each mod, even though only creating a single rule would suffice most of the time to resolve the conflict (see spoiler below for an example). I have no idea if this was necessary; probably just the developer (/OCD nature) in me being thorough. Anyway...here's the example:
Spoiler:
Show
Let's use the two "ScratchMade" mods on BRB's "Step 1: Textures Optimization" instructions. There will be a mod conflict between the two mods when you install them in the order given. After installing the 2nd mod, I got the notification within Vortex of the conflict, so I then:
- Added a rule to the "ScratchMade Combat Shotgun and Rifle" Mod to Load Before the conflicting mod (since we're instructed to install it first). - Similarly, I also added a rule to the "ScratchMade Double Barrel Shotgun" Mod to Load After the conflicting mod (since it's installed afterwards).
Using similar logic, that's how I resolved all other conflicts.
Simpler Explanation/TL;DR (technically, setting up only one of these should suffice, but I like making sure both are):
- Mod installed first: rule = Load Before. - Mod being installed that causes conflict: rule = Load After.
NOTE 3: Updating Mods with Conflict Rules. Make sure to check the rules when you update. I've had some instances (so far only where I installed originally via a manual download and am subsequently getting an update file using the Vortex downloader) where I've had to recreate the rules for one or the other (only in the MODS screen, though...the PLUGINS rules seem to be exempt from this for the most part...at least so far).
Vortex PLUGINS -> "Manage Groups":
Spoiler:
Show
Here is a screenshot of the groups and the sequential load order for those groups as I set them up:
Vortex PLUGINS -> "Manage Rules":
Spoiler:
Show
Here are some screenshots of the individual plugin rules as I set them up:
Load Order & Plugin Group Associations (includes more than BRB's list):
Spoiler:
Show
See the 'Group' Column for what group associations each plugin is associated with (will match one of the 'dots' in the "Manage Groups" section). Anything in the 'Dependencies' column with an orange icon is something that has a rule established, whether default rules (e.g. those between the DLC esm's and the master game esm) or custom created.
Anywho, hope this helps and let me know if I have any glaring holes in my stuff! Seems to work great on my end. With that said, I should mention my PC specs as well if you wish to replicate what I have:
Spoiler:
Show
AMD FX 8350 Phenom 4.0 GHz 8-core CPU (base clocked) 32 GB DDR2400 RAM GeForce GTX 1080Ti 11GB
Note to BRB/other authors: feel free to use/improve any or all of this at your discretion. Not sure if it's needed to say, but this is simply how I made my game work and wanted to share. Thanks for all you authors do! -MrB
Nice. Thanks for this. I got rid of most of the master groups Vortex comes with. Well, I put them off to the side and don't use them. The only one I kept and continue to use is the one named "default". If I try to include the others, Vortex likes to give me errors about them and disconnect them from the lines. So, I remade them. These are my groups, for now: https://i.imgur.com/LFgMReu.png
Amber, I love your GROUP arrangement. I am trying to do something similar. my question is, HOW did you dissect the groups that Vortex came with? I right-click, select “remove”, and they don’t go away?
I have watched tutorials and they say the same thing but mine won’t do it. Is there a tutorial or a trick I am missing?
I haven’t had a chance to hop on my computer yet today to check it out. But I recently started playing FO4 again to try to satisfy that itch until Starfield is released. Buuuut… I’m pretty sure I’ve tried to make a similar grouping in Vortex and it wouldn’t let me delete the lines. Something must’ve changed since I made that in 2019. Shame.
i never got notifications for the other people that had responded to my post. Sorry y’all! I’ll bring this up to the Vortex people on the Nexus Discord. I’ll come back here in a day or two and respond again with whatever info I get.
Can't seem to get a detailed answer out of anyone, but yeah, sounds like you just can't disconnect the regular built-in groups. But you can create your own groups and just use those.
This was perfect! Thank you so much; took so long to learn Vortex and didn't feel like re-learning an older mod organizer for the new game. Sorted properly and everything works like a charm
I have started delving into this because of Horizon's very demanding load order that autosort doesn't want to cooperate with. I'm curious how you broke the original lines and inserted other groupings between? I can make new lines and break them, but have found no way to break the original flow lines.
This is the same issue I had with Locational Damage...the guide is very specific with regards to the order of several plugins and I gave up trying to arrange them in Vortex.
Just wanted to wade in here to post some of my experiences with this guide and mod list.
I have also just completed a similar guide and list with NV that took me four attempts before I had it right...it runs rock solid and performs amazingly....so...
I am using Vortex and thus why I am posting these musings here.
On my third attempt I can confidently say I followed mrb783's suggestions to the letter. Everything looks good and I can start the game to menu without a hiccup. I did not install location damage simply because adjusting the plugins as Biraitbec suggests was too complicated for me to do in Vortex.
I get to using Wryebash and find that it tells me a dozen or so masters are out of order and should I proceed regardless? I do not. I try to find some pointers online but to no avail. I finally decided to use Vortex to sort the plugins. Something that Biraitbec definitely says I should not do (with NMM at any rate).
When I go back to Bash....everything is fine...no problems...so I run bash and make a patch.
I can play without a hiccup so far but I'm only in Sanctuary still and have Dogmeat with me. Not sure if all the mods are working as described but we'll see.
Well done man, I've been wondering if anyone that intimately understands their personal load order / load order rules in general; if they'd actually switch to Vortex and go through the large amount of work required to get it to load in the correct order.
Very recently, I started with a fresh FO4 install and am in the process of setting it up with mods. I have created a ton of patches using xEdit and have (IMO), pretty fine tuned modgroups so far at my current progress. Of course, I also have a specific load order that can't be deviated from (ie: that would require the same process of setting groups/rules in LOOT/Vortex). Right before I started all this I spent a lot of time researching Vortex, reading it's user guide, all the FAQ, etc. I installed Vortex and continued reading about all it's features. I read several times that it uses LOOT, groups, and rules to order plugins, but I assumed it was just additional functionality that you could use instead of manual sorting, if you chose to. Eventually i realized that it was in fact not at all possible to use manual sorting, which is so bewildering to me. Right after confirming that, I uninstalled and switched to a different manager. But everything else about Vortex really captured my attention, it seems really well built.
Seeing that you went through the work of getting it sort to how you want/how it needs to.. It sort of is inspiring me to maybe do it also. So things are continuing to run smooth for you and you're still satisfied with Vortex in general, considering the initial setup time/labor required? I also am curious what you meant when you said "but has made updates easier to accomplish using Vortex." ? You mean, mod updates?, are easier to manage when authors release new versions?
"Eventually I realized that it was in fact not at all possible to use manual sorting, which is so bewildering to me. Right after confirming that.."
I'm very new to Vortex, but I believe in the Vortex forums I learned that you can disable the Loot sorting and do so manually by going to Plugins and clicking on "Autosort Enabled" on the left end of the orange bar in the upper portion of the screen so that it changes to "Autosort Disabled". The same orange bar where you "Manage Rules" and "Manage Groups".
I just now realized the notification i got for a reply to a comment on BiRaitBec's Modlist was actually a reply on this forum section within the mod page. Lol, i remember searching for a old comment i posted in the main "posts" section but didn't see any new reply.
-anyways, thanks. I did not know this. Definitely would get me to try out Vortex if i were to start modding from scratch again.
yeh mate, me too have this problem. I receive 2 notifications tabs. i click in both of them and they both send me to the posts tab, of course i know how forum works, cause it always has been like this, but its really annoying. They should fix that.
Give Feedback
Using Vortex - Plugin Groups and Load Order Rules (26 comments)
What is shown below are the Groups that I have established (both default and created ones to map closely to what BRB has laid out here, and some plugin rules to augment those group ordering. Combined, this allows for the use of the "Sort" functionality within Vortex, while also keeping your mods ordered based on BRB's guidance here.
NOTE 1: This does deviate from BRB's guidance of not using Sort features, but it does so while respecting both the features included in Vortex and also with a mind to preserve the suggested load order BRB set forth.
Also, apologies for all the screenshots. I tried looking for a nice export feature within Vortex to be able to get that to a pretty list, but no dice.
NOTE 2: Installation Mod Conflict Resolution. I wanted to keep the number of screenshots to a minimum, as there are already a ton here in this post. Anyway, when installing my mods, any time there was a conflict during the install/enabling of the mod via Vortex, I further went and added rules on both sides of the conflict with the appropriate actions for each mod, even though only creating a single rule would suffice most of the time to resolve the conflict (see spoiler below for an example). I have no idea if this was necessary; probably just the developer (/OCD nature) in me being thorough. Anyway...here's the example:
Let's use the two "ScratchMade" mods on BRB's "Step 1: Textures Optimization" instructions. There will be a mod conflict between the two mods when you install them in the order given. After installing the 2nd mod, I got the notification within Vortex of the conflict, so I then:
- Added a rule to the "ScratchMade Combat Shotgun and Rifle" Mod to Load Before the conflicting mod (since we're instructed to install it first).
- Similarly, I also added a rule to the "ScratchMade Double Barrel Shotgun" Mod to Load After the conflicting mod (since it's installed afterwards).
Using similar logic, that's how I resolved all other conflicts.
Simpler Explanation/TL;DR (technically, setting up only one of these should suffice, but I like making sure both are):
- Mod installed first: rule = Load Before.
- Mod being installed that causes conflict: rule = Load After.
NOTE 3: Updating Mods with Conflict Rules. Make sure to check the rules when you update. I've had some instances (so far only where I installed originally via a manual download and am subsequently getting an update file using the Vortex downloader) where I've had to recreate the rules for one or the other (only in the MODS screen, though...the PLUGINS rules seem to be exempt from this for the most part...at least so far).
Vortex PLUGINS -> "Manage Groups":
Here is a screenshot of the groups and the sequential load order for those groups as I set them up:
Vortex PLUGINS -> "Manage Rules":
Here are some screenshots of the individual plugin rules as I set them up:
Load Order & Plugin Group Associations (includes more than BRB's list):
See the 'Group' Column for what group associations each plugin is associated with (will match one of the 'dots' in the "Manage Groups" section).
Anything in the 'Dependencies' column with an orange icon is something that has a rule established, whether default rules (e.g. those between the DLC esm's and the master game esm) or custom created.
Anywho, hope this helps and let me know if I have any glaring holes in my stuff! Seems to work great on my end. With that said, I should mention my PC specs as well if you wish to replicate what I have:
AMD FX 8350 Phenom 4.0 GHz 8-core CPU (base clocked)
32 GB DDR2400 RAM
GeForce GTX 1080Ti 11GB
Note to BRB/other authors: feel free to use/improve any or all of this at your discretion. Not sure if it's needed to say, but this is simply how I made my game work and wanted to share. Thanks for all you authors do! -MrB
I got rid of most of the master groups Vortex comes with. Well, I put them off to the side and don't use them. The only one I kept and continue to use is the one named "default". If I try to include the others, Vortex likes to give me errors about them and disconnect them from the lines. So, I remade them.
These are my groups, for now: https://i.imgur.com/LFgMReu.png
I love your GROUP arrangement. I am trying to do something similar.
my question is, HOW did you dissect the groups that Vortex came with? I right-click, select “remove”, and they don’t go away?
I have watched tutorials and they say the same thing but mine won’t do it.
Is there a tutorial or a trick I am missing?
regards,
Jody
Buuuut… I’m pretty sure I’ve tried to make a similar grouping in Vortex and it wouldn’t let me delete the lines. Something must’ve changed since I made that in 2019. Shame.
i never got notifications for the other people that had responded to my post. Sorry y’all! I’ll bring this up to the Vortex people on the Nexus Discord. I’ll come back here in a day or two and respond again with whatever info I get.
https://ibb.co/YPDYHfx
Just wanted to wade in here to post some of my experiences with this guide and mod list.
I have also just completed a similar guide and list with NV that took me four attempts before I had it right...it runs rock solid and performs amazingly....so...
I am using Vortex and thus why I am posting these musings here.
On my third attempt I can confidently say I followed mrb783's suggestions to the letter. Everything looks good and I can start the game to menu without a hiccup. I did not install location damage simply because adjusting the plugins as Biraitbec suggests was too complicated for me to do in Vortex.
I get to using Wryebash and find that it tells me a dozen or so masters are out of order and should I proceed regardless? I do not. I try to find some pointers online but to no avail. I finally decided to use Vortex to sort the plugins. Something that Biraitbec definitely says I should not do (with NMM at any rate).
When I go back to Bash....everything is fine...no problems...so I run bash and make a patch.
I can play without a hiccup so far but I'm only in Sanctuary still and have Dogmeat with me. Not sure if all the mods are working as described but we'll see.
My 2 cents.
Cheers.
Ditto on this...
I'm seeing those three groups separated as well..and ran into 'reference lookup failed' error.
What's this about? Does anyone have a clue who to connect them to which groups?
User interface, items, factions overhaul ? These are not removable
Or maybe I'm retarded and you can just ignore them ? like you simply put them out of the screens
Very recently, I started with a fresh FO4 install and am in the process of setting it up with mods. I have created a ton of patches using xEdit and have (IMO), pretty fine tuned modgroups so far at my current progress. Of course, I also have a specific load order that can't be deviated from (ie: that would require the same process of setting groups/rules in LOOT/Vortex).
Right before I started all this I spent a lot of time researching Vortex, reading it's user guide, all the FAQ, etc. I installed Vortex and continued reading about all it's features. I read several times that it uses LOOT, groups, and rules to order plugins, but I assumed it was just additional functionality that you could use instead of manual sorting, if you chose to. Eventually i realized that it was in fact not at all possible to use manual sorting, which is so bewildering to me. Right after confirming that, I uninstalled and switched to a different manager. But everything else about Vortex really captured my attention, it seems really well built.
Seeing that you went through the work of getting it sort to how you want/how it needs to.. It sort of is inspiring me to maybe do it also. So things are continuing to run smooth for you and you're still satisfied with Vortex in general, considering the initial setup time/labor required? I also am curious what you meant when you said "but has made updates easier to accomplish using Vortex." ? You mean, mod updates?, are easier to manage when authors release new versions?
I'm very new to Vortex, but I believe in the Vortex forums I learned that you can disable the Loot sorting and do so manually by going to Plugins and clicking on "Autosort Enabled" on the left end of the orange bar in the upper portion of the screen so that it changes to "Autosort Disabled". The same orange bar where you "Manage Rules" and "Manage Groups".
Hope this helps if you revisit the tool.
-anyways, thanks. I did not know this. Definitely would get me to try out Vortex if i were to start modding from scratch again.