I've been absolutely LOVING this mod, and have logged probably 40 hours since installing it, but there's one pretty decently large issue ive had. The ammo of raiders and such make decent sense, but NPC's like the gunners and BOS run out of ammo incredibly quickly. Like, IMMEDIATELY. I quite often end up noticing a small group of enemies, and pop one, and the others seem to unload and then sprint away. The chase is entertaining but actual gunfights only last a few seconds usually. Maybe a minute if theres a handful. Is there a console command or a patch, or even a mod update that can increase the amount of shots they have, if just by a bit? I saw a raider in PA with a minigun and was terrified. then he missed all of his like, 20 shots. 20. It feels a tiny bit...Silly. I love every other aspect, and the ammo limitations, but it feels too limited imo. Great mod, and i hope you keep making them!! Please let me know about my concern. :)
Endorsed! I really love what you did WITH NPCs. I use Horizon and I'm sure they're not compatible. I'll probably patch it somehow, is it possible to make an optional for only the NPC changes?
Actually I loaded this before Horizon, it kept the NPC changes. NPCs run out of ammo, have forks/etc in their inventory and run away when they're losing. Thanks!
If I understand your description properly , you've really limited the amount of ammo enemies spawn with , in a way that seems all too drastic , in my opinion I mean , an enemy with a minigun having a maximum of 35 rounds is just a sad joke , making these heavier weapons obsolete and from what I'm seeing , you didn't touch the real heavy ammo (rockets and mini-nukes) , which are probably the real problems in this game
I love a lot of the changes you've made , and was actually looking for a mod that makes enemies use their ammo , as it made no sense to me how the game originally was but I'm pretty sure this mod needs some better balancing in order to be as good as it can be hopefully you can address the issues that have been reported , and I hope to see this mod in it's peak form soon
I like this mod, I really do. However after a solid minimum 24 hours of playtime with this mod (1.2 update), the AI is way too cowardly and you can really exploit the fact that they run out of ammo in 2 seconds. I like the fact that there's so little ammo around, much so that I had to buy ammo from one point to another. You should have seen my " Defend the Castle " mission. Bunch of Synths and Minutemen running around punching eachother in and around the castle. Coursers running and hiding and Synths fleeing the premises. If there was an option to disable the fear mechanic and give enemies infinite ammo again I would and strictly have less ammo around, I think I would like it more. Also if there was a way to reduce the amount of containers that actually have ammo in them that would be an improvement imo. Hell sometimes I'll walk along the river and loot every trashbin and milk container and find ammo in all of them. Endorsed and looking forward to new updates, but for now it just makes firefights kinda meh and not challenging. I've started going full melee for the sake of it and having no problems.
Really promising mod. The way ammo is handled is really needed, but the way that everything runs is too frustrating. Gave it an endorsement, will play with the mod again when the running is toned down.
Thanks for the endorsement, I just updated the mod to 1.2 earlier today and that reduces the amount of NPC running away, it was much too high and that wasn't my intention, you can however change it to whatever you'd like with the console
I tested the mod for a while now, i should say i really love it! The perfect mod for a Mad Max oriented character where shooting a bullet and missing the shot should hurt your wallet, and using your bare hands to save some ammo for complicated gun fights or legendary bosses. Some cons however... That I notice playing:
Main Complain: -The AI still too coward. The AI once they run out of ammo, they just flee away from me... Even if they outnumber me... They are Raiders, yeah I know the idea of humanization... But lets remember they are sick "druged to the brows" bastards who dont even care if you are well armed , specially when they outnumber you like a 8 vs 1, and I should understand if they just run if I killed 6 of them and 2 of them remain. But they just run once i killed 2 or 3 of them.
Minor complains: -Ammo pools are kinda low sometimes. My character is level 16 right now, i recently started a new game, so i dont know if the ammo pools are related to the level list (? But dont you think, Gunners should have at least 2 or 3 ammo magazines? They are well prepared, militarized hired thugs who can do every kind of dirty job if the pay justifies it. I mean, its not that bad but a little adjustment doesnt hurt... I think
Thank you for the endorsement and the constructive criticism, lucky for both of us we share the same vision.
I've been very busy this past week and was finally able to play a new character with all of these tweaks, the confidence needs to be tweaked again, you're right about everyone being too much of a coward, that much wasn't my intention
and about the ammo pools, that's the complicated part, imagine you're on a deserted island with 10 people and you need to slice up a single pizza for all of them, half is pepperoni, half is cheese, different people need different amounts, and they also want different amounts etc. that's a pretty bad analogy, anyway everything in the game uses the same ammo pool which is further changed by levels, variance and luck so if you try to change one value suddenly shops, containers and NPCs all go through drastic changes.
As of v1.1 I've begun to change that and hopefully there will soon be separate ammo and cap pools for containers, NPCs and shops,
there are three things I want to do that may either be impossible or at least very hard to do 1. create and assign ammo pools to NPC templates based on faction, for example gunners should have more than raiders, I agree with you there. by default if any NPC has a certain gun it will pull a random amount of ammo for that gun within the parameters. which is why this change would take some time and effort
2. possibly create additional confidence levels for specific factions or types of NPCs, for example maybe snipers would be more cowardly and so that's why they have a ranged job
3. give NPCs with automatic weapons a higher ammo pool than those with similar semi-auto weapons because to me it doesn't make as much sense for someone to be using an automatic when they really only have about 8 rounds
yeah, its understandable... I dedicated some time in the creation kit and I see a lot of mechanics related to the level list, it should be tricky make a ammo pool for all each factions in the game... Well, the only idea that i have is "increasing" the ammo dice probability in some Late Game Weapons like the assault rifle or Laser Rifles Etc. Because taking a closer look in the reality of the game, it seems that some level list related weapons just appear equipped to some npcs after some level requirements reached by the player, "and" some weapons actually are just like "signature weapons" for a specific factions by default... Gunners: Assault Rifles, Laser Rifles/Pistols, Plasma Rifles, etc etc. (Military Oriented Weponry) BoS: Laser Rifles, Laser Gatlings, (Energy Weapons in general) Raiders: Pipe guns/rifles, Double Barrel shotguns, hunting rifles... RailRoad: some of the above, and of course... Their Gauss Sniper Rifle.
My idea should be increasing the ammo of a specific weapon in a justified amount (because probably it will be used by a specific npc, for example a laser rifle, it will probably been usd by a BoS or either way a Gunner). The Issue will be like, killing them fast without noticing with sniper build or a stealth character will make it easy to collect their loot (because it expect to them to be preapared in gear and ammo in a realistic way), but the thing is: If you are going full rambo, they going to spent their ammo fast shooting at you, and rushing with melee weapons once they run out of ammo... Things worse, no ammo for you! But the thing is... it will force you to save some ammo for reasonable gunfights with those factions if you planning to assault them in first place, it will be rewarding yeah... (depending in a specific ammo dice) But just if you know how to spend your ammo "wisely" as well efficient as possible, because ammo cost a lot... And assaulting gunners/BoS soldiers will make the things more harder than assaulting raiders because they outnumber you in guns and lots of ammo, and your character build (either a melee character or a gunslinger/sniper/whatever) arent prepared for that, even you just take cover they gonna take flank of you soon, or eitherway you have ammo the thing is, how much it gonna last? everything you know will take a twist ... And will make you decide either try to fight them or run away... A Brutal Reality right there xDD but you know, its just a Concept idea... Im not expecting to you to use them xD but who knows.
I will be Anxious for the next version of your mod! cheers.
"• All NPCs now use the Ammunition that they have in their inventory and can run out of ammo. Think tactically, do you want to kill them before they use their ammo or let them run out for an easier fight."
You had me at hello.
But seriously, this is what I've been waiting for, damn it. I've been using two out of three mods you recommended and have been recently considering Raider Children. Additionally I've been meticulously tinkering with mods that alter item discovery (INCLUDING AMMUNITION), making the overall challenge far more rewarding in the end. Your mod has the potential to completely seal the deal when it comes to true survival. Enemies with limitless ammunition isn't my idea of a good time. Does it make for a more exciting fight? Sure, in some cases. Is it a huge bummer when you're about as durable as a wet paper towel? Damn skippy, it is! Which is why I'm gonna throw caution to the wind give this mod a shot! I have to say, this project seems like more of an overhaul than a simple immersion mod.
Tomorrow after work, I'm starting a fresh playthrough and diving in head first (after going over the description a few more times to see what other changes are in store)! This mod looks exceptionally promising.
Well I've gone a good 12 hours with this mod in and I have to say that it's a game changer. Everything from the consistent ammunition struggle to the mob manipulation makes the game less of a power fantasy and more of a pseudo-survival adventure. Nearly every aspect of the game is a challenge if you don't plan accordingly.
I'll paint a picture for you: You just finished a 7 on 1 fight with a couple of raiders who ambushed you and you're far from your home. There are two survivors. You and one wounded raider who's laying on the ground with one missing arm and leg. He's bleeding out and screaming for his life. You have 6 bullets left in your gun. Now you don't want to just leave him there (Mainly because he obviously has valuable goods). So what do you do? You see his gun laying next to his mangled body and you pop him right there and there. Killing a raider with his own weapon had a sort of poetic justice to it. Could I have beaten him to death with fists or a pipe? Sure, but isn't that even more barbaric than a simple shot to the head?
It's little moments like that that makes the game come alive. And it's all due to this mod and it's recommendations. So I gotta say it's been a blast. This mod will surely stay in my load order in the days to come. Thanks for this one, itmemav. This is a low-key top-tier mod. Wish I could endorse ya twice!
You can open the console and type in "setgs fconfidenceCowardly #" "setgs fconfidenceCautious #" "setgs fconfidenceAverage #" "setgs fconfidenceBrave#" "setgs fconfidenceFoolhardy #"
pretty much yes, but It's a rebalance mod so I don't see why you wouldn't. if you attempt to use this mod on an existing save you're probably not going to notice any changes until you load a new cell or they refresh
36 comments
The ammo of raiders and such make decent sense, but NPC's like the gunners and BOS run out of ammo incredibly quickly. Like, IMMEDIATELY. I quite often end up noticing a small group of enemies, and pop one, and the others seem to unload and then sprint away. The chase is entertaining but actual gunfights only last a few seconds usually. Maybe a minute if theres a handful. Is there a console command or a patch, or even a mod update that can increase the amount of shots they have, if just by a bit? I saw a raider in PA with a minigun and was terrified. then he missed all of his like, 20 shots. 20. It feels a tiny bit...Silly. I love every other aspect, and the ammo limitations, but it feels too limited imo.
Great mod, and i hope you keep making them!! Please let me know about my concern. :)
I mean , an enemy with a minigun having a maximum of 35 rounds is just a sad joke , making these heavier weapons obsolete
and from what I'm seeing , you didn't touch the real heavy ammo (rockets and mini-nukes) , which are probably the real problems in this game
I love a lot of the changes you've made , and was actually looking for a mod that makes enemies use their ammo , as it made no sense to me how the game originally was
but I'm pretty sure this mod needs some better balancing in order to be as good as it can be
hopefully you can address the issues that have been reported , and I hope to see this mod in it's peak form soon
You should have seen my " Defend the Castle " mission. Bunch of Synths and Minutemen running around punching eachother in and around the castle. Coursers running and hiding and Synths fleeing the premises. If there was an option to disable the fear mechanic and give enemies infinite ammo again I would and strictly have less ammo around, I think I would like it more.
Also if there was a way to reduce the amount of containers that actually have ammo in them that would be an improvement imo. Hell sometimes I'll walk along the river and loot every trashbin and milk container and find ammo in all of them.
Endorsed and looking forward to new updates, but for now it just makes firefights kinda meh and not challenging. I've started going full melee for the sake of it and having no problems.
Played on Survival with 2x dmg multiplier.
The perfect mod for a Mad Max oriented character where shooting a bullet and missing the shot should hurt your wallet, and using your bare hands to save some ammo for complicated gun fights or legendary bosses.
Some cons however... That I notice playing:
Main Complain:
-The AI still too coward.
The AI once they run out of ammo, they just flee away from me... Even if they outnumber me...
They are Raiders, yeah I know the idea of humanization... But lets remember they are sick "druged to the brows" bastards who dont even care if you are
well armed , specially when they outnumber you like a 8 vs 1, and I should understand if they just run if I killed 6 of them and 2 of
them remain. But they just run once i killed 2 or 3 of them.
Minor complains:
-Ammo pools are kinda low sometimes.
My character is level 16 right now, i recently started a new game, so i dont know if the ammo pools are related to the level list (? But dont you think, Gunners should have at least 2 or 3 ammo magazines? They are well prepared, militarized hired thugs who can do every kind of dirty job if the pay justifies it. I mean, its not that bad but a little adjustment doesnt hurt... I think
Either way, excelent mod! I endorse!
I've been very busy this past week and was finally able to play a new character with all of these tweaks, the confidence needs to be tweaked again, you're right about everyone being too much of a coward, that much wasn't my intention
and about the ammo pools, that's the complicated part, imagine you're on a deserted island with 10 people and you need to slice up a single pizza for all of them, half is pepperoni, half is cheese, different people need different amounts, and they also want different amounts etc. that's a pretty bad analogy, anyway everything in the game uses the same ammo pool which is further changed by levels, variance and luck so if you try to change one value suddenly shops, containers and NPCs all go through drastic changes.
As of v1.1 I've begun to change that and hopefully there will soon be separate ammo and cap pools for containers, NPCs and shops,
there are three things I want to do that may either be impossible or at least very hard to do
1. create and assign ammo pools to NPC templates based on faction, for example gunners should have more than raiders, I agree with you there. by default if any NPC has a certain gun it will pull a random amount of ammo for that gun within the parameters. which is why this change would take some time and effort
2. possibly create additional confidence levels for specific factions or types of NPCs, for example maybe snipers would be more cowardly and so that's why they have a ranged job
3. give NPCs with automatic weapons a higher ammo pool than those with similar semi-auto weapons because to me it doesn't make as much sense for someone to be using an automatic when they really only have about 8 rounds
I dedicated some time in the creation kit and I see a lot of mechanics related to the level list, it should be tricky make a ammo pool for all each factions in the game...
Well, the only idea that i have is "increasing" the ammo dice probability in some Late Game Weapons like the assault rifle or Laser Rifles Etc. Because taking a closer look in the reality of the game, it seems that some level list related weapons just appear equipped to some npcs after some level requirements reached by the player, "and" some weapons actually are just like "signature weapons" for a specific factions by default...
Gunners: Assault Rifles, Laser Rifles/Pistols, Plasma Rifles, etc etc. (Military Oriented Weponry)
BoS: Laser Rifles, Laser Gatlings, (Energy Weapons in general)
Raiders: Pipe guns/rifles, Double Barrel shotguns, hunting rifles...
RailRoad: some of the above, and of course... Their Gauss Sniper Rifle.
My idea should be increasing the ammo of a specific weapon in a justified amount (because probably it will be used by a specific npc, for example a laser rifle, it will probably been usd by a BoS or either way a Gunner).
The Issue will be like, killing them fast without noticing with sniper build or a stealth character will make it easy to collect their loot (because it expect to them to be preapared in gear and ammo in a realistic way), but the thing is: If you are going full rambo, they going to spent their ammo fast shooting at you, and rushing with melee weapons once they run out of ammo... Things worse, no ammo for you!
But the thing is... it will force you to save some ammo for reasonable gunfights with those factions if you planning to assault them in first place, it will be rewarding yeah... (depending in a specific ammo dice) But just if you know how to spend your ammo "wisely" as well efficient as possible, because ammo cost a lot... And assaulting gunners/BoS soldiers will make the things more harder than assaulting raiders because they outnumber you in guns and lots of ammo, and your character build (either a melee character or a gunslinger/sniper/whatever) arent prepared for that, even you just take cover they gonna take flank of you soon, or eitherway you have ammo the thing is, how much it gonna last? everything you know will take a twist ... And will make you decide either try to fight them or run away... A Brutal Reality right there xDD
but you know, its just a Concept idea... Im not expecting to you to use them xD but who knows.
I will be Anxious for the next version of your mod! cheers.
Think tactically, do you want to kill them before they use their ammo or let them run out for an easier fight."
You had me at hello.
But seriously, this is what I've been waiting for, damn it. I've been using two out of three mods you recommended and have been recently considering Raider Children. Additionally I've been meticulously tinkering with mods that alter item discovery (INCLUDING AMMUNITION), making the overall challenge far more rewarding in the end. Your mod has the potential to completely seal the deal when it comes to true survival. Enemies with limitless ammunition isn't my idea of a good time. Does it make for a more exciting fight? Sure, in some cases. Is it a huge bummer when you're about as durable as a wet paper towel? Damn skippy, it is! Which is why I'm gonna throw caution to the wind give this mod a shot! I have to say, this project seems like more of an overhaul than a simple immersion mod.
Tomorrow after work, I'm starting a fresh playthrough and diving in head first (after going over the description a few more times to see what other changes are in store)! This mod looks exceptionally promising.
I'll paint a picture for you: You just finished a 7 on 1 fight with a couple of raiders who ambushed you and you're far from your home. There are two survivors. You and one wounded raider who's laying on the ground with one missing arm and leg. He's bleeding out and screaming for his life. You have 6 bullets left in your gun. Now you don't want to just leave him there (Mainly because he obviously has valuable goods). So what do you do? You see his gun laying next to his mangled body and you pop him right there and there. Killing a raider with his own weapon had a sort of poetic justice to it. Could I have beaten him to death with fists or a pipe? Sure, but isn't that even more barbaric than a simple shot to the head?
It's little moments like that that makes the game come alive. And it's all due to this mod and it's recommendations. So I gotta say it's been a blast. This mod will surely stay in my load order in the days to come. Thanks for this one, itmemav. This is a low-key top-tier mod. Wish I could endorse ya twice!
"setgs fconfidenceCowardly #"
"setgs fconfidenceCautious #"
"setgs fconfidenceAverage #"
"setgs fconfidenceBrave#"
"setgs fconfidenceFoolhardy #"
or simply setup an auto exec
if you attempt to use this mod on an existing save you're probably not going to notice any changes until you load a new cell or they refresh