Please leave any questions under the POSTS section, and any bugs under the BUGS section.
Version 3.4.1 It appears that the 20 button limit imposed by the Creation Kit on message boxes is artificial, considering I was able to bypass it using FO4Edit (which I don't usually use to make mods). It doesn't look like there have been any repercussions, and I've seen other reputable mods do this as well (e.g. Horizon), so we should be in the clear. This has allowed me to merge the 4 pages of workshops into 1, which has made things simpler. I've also made some performance improvements to the script, so it should generate your list of connected workshops quicker.
The Unassign Provisioners feature works by obtaining the list of provisioners from the WorkshopParent quest alias. So, if a mod assigns a provisioner and doesn't add that actor to the CaravanActorAliases ref col alias, then it won't be detected by this feature. I'm not sure why you wouldn't, though. This is what the vanilla game uses to unassign provisioners (at least in some circumstances), so this shouldn't cause any issues. If you do unassign any provisioners that are unloaded, then just wait around and they'll slowly make their way back to the settlement like any other unassigned settler. On a side note, I recommend that you use the UFO4P if you're planning to use this feature, as it patches a bug that affects the function that I'm using to unassign the provisioners. Long story short, it makes scripts form a queue of sorts when unassigning settlers, so that they can be edited safely.
I've spent a lot of time walking between settlements, back and forth, looking for a provisioner and then waiting for them to walk to the nearest settlement, so I'm happy that I've finally got this feature out.
Version 3.3.0 The Transfer Items feature allows you to open the inventories of workshops that you are connected to via supply line. I'm actually pretty happy with this feature as it's a much better solution than how it worked in version 2.0.4, where you simply moved all of the items between the containers. However, the implementation has some shortcomings that come about from message boxes/pop-up menus being rather static in nature. You are given a maximum of 20 buttons per message box, and you can only pass in floats (numbers) as variables.
This has two major implications. First, there are 36 workshops in the base game and DLC, so you need at least two message boxes to fit them all in. If you consider the "Next...", "Previous..." and ">Close" buttons, this works out to at least three message boxes. Second, you can't dynamically change button names via scripts. So, I can't read the name of the workshop via script and print it to the buttons, which would allow for compatibility with settlements added by mods. Instead, a patch will be necessary. This also means that I can't just give you all of the settlements in the one message box if you happen to have less than 20 settlements connected via supply line.
So, as a compromise I've set it up with 4 message boxes, each with 9 of the 36 settlements in alphabetical order (discounting any "the" prefix). I felt this was best as it allowed for an even distribution of settlements across the message boxes, and didn't make the list too long. Unfortunately, all 4 message boxes show up even if you can only access a single settlement. So, in this case you'll have 3 message boxes with no settlement available to access. A workaround is possible, but I didn't think it would be worth complicating the scripts.
If there are going to be any bugs, it will most likely result from me having to type in and assign settlement names so many times. If you look at the script and the ESP, you'll see that I've had to do that a number of times per settlement. If such a bug exists, it would most likely result in you either being unable to access a specific settlements workbench, or you being given access to the wrong settlement workbench. I was pretty careful when I was setting this up, so hopefully there aren't any bugs. Even if you do encounter this type of bug, if you give me the details, it's a simple fix - I just need to know where to look.
Version 3.1.0 The Highlight feature has the potential to expose some things that you may not have noticed before. If you choose to highlight synth settlers and don't have the Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch installed, you may notice that you can get synth Brahmin. If you choose to highlight unassigned settlers, it will only highlight settlers that you can assign. For example, children will auto-assign themselves, but you cannot assign them. So, even if they are unassigned, they will not be highlighted.
If a settler is not being highlighted when you believe it should, then keep in mind that this is either a bug with the vanilla game or another mod that edits the WorkshopNPCScript that this feature takes advantage of. Feel free to report the issue and I'll try to help you, but know that I'll need more information than "my settler isn't being highlighted".
Moved from the description: I plan on taking this mod in a new direction as of version 3.0.0. Rather than cramming all features into a single download, I have opted to separate each feature, and the menu itself into individual files. This allows you guys to mix and match different features, meaning that you don't have to install a feature if you don't want to. This makes it easier for me to develop new features and maintain existing features. However, it does also mean that you will have more plugins in your load order (sorry about that).
None of the features will function without the main file, the Workshop Control Panel itself. So, please make sure to always have that installed if you intend to use this mod at all. Load order is irrelevant however, so feel free to chuck them wherever.
i have been having a heck of a time getting fallout to run without crashing. I am NOW using a load order guide. BUT No Where does it tell me Where do i Place this Mod into the load order? So I Hope you will let me know. Please.
Is there an easy way to find conflicting mods that are blocking the menu from opening? I'm not sure what file I need to look at for conflicts
edit: nevermind, it was apparently an option i had to turn off in workshop plus so it wouldn't try to open the workshop plus settings from the bench...
Time to finally download and endorse your stuff before bed. I'll look forward to testing it out with Quick Harvest on Sunday. Sorry it took me so long! I'll actually be looking at it by the way, so expect some kind of annoying feedback at some point. I tested the Ghoul Mask out last week and it was great. I really need to start checking out more mods instead of just making them and running off for six months.
The default settlement budget values are the values taken when you first install the mod. This means that whatever settlement budget values you have at initialisation, even if they've been changed by a mod, they will be taken as the default values. Other than that being a potential issue they shouldn't conflict in any meaningful way.
Hi there and thank you for this mod, it saves me a couple of mod slots that I have to use other mods for otherwise. I'm wondering, would it be possible with an AIO .Esl version of the new < 3.0? I tried to make it for myself but you have references to the .Esp -format in your scripts so it will not work unless I re compile them for the .Esl format, or uses the earlier version of your mod but then I'll miss some newer functions. However, it's just a question. Thanks in anyway
Edit: Actually nevermind, I just realized that Loot detector has what I would miss in the newer version so I'll just use the 2.0 version and change it into an .Esl myself. This is an awesome mod and I also think it should have more attention. Cheers
I don't plan on releasing an ESL version of this mod. ESL files have their own drawbacks that I don't want to have to consider while developing the mod (which are concisely written up here). Put simply, ESL files are not suitable for mods like this, which are constantly in development. For context, I have been steadily working on this mod for over two years, over which it has taken many forms. ESL files are instead good for small mods that won't be frequently updated.
You won't be able to convert version 3.0.0+ to an ESL file because the scripts communicate remotely (to link the menus together). Specifying the file extension is necessary when doing this. To convert this mod into an ESL file you would have to edit the scripts to reference the new ESL file extension and recompile them. I’ve given you guys the source code in the BA2 archives. So, all you would have to do to get started is use a tool such as BAE to extract the loose files.
I don’t intend on supporting version 2.0.4 anymore. As you say, it would be a simple process to convert it to an ESL file yourself, though. I keep it around because not all features available in version 2.0.4 are currently available in version 3.0.0+. Though, don’t expect them to ever be, as there are several features that I either just don’t like the implementation of, or I don’t like the feature to begin with. For example, the Cheats and Settlement Attacks features (I may find a different way to implement the latter). I’ll be more officially phasing version 2.0.4 out once I manage to release a more complete feature set for version 3.0.0+. So, download version 2.0.4 while you can, as it won’t be there forever.
I don’t create mods to manage them. I create mods because I want to make something that I think is cool. I personally find releasing multiple versions of the same mod a hassle, whether it’s to patch something or to release them to other websites (e.g. Bethesda.NET). So, I make my mods as compatible as possible, and I only release my mods to the Nexus. Even then, I spend more time than I would like on managing my mods. So, the only time I would think to release an ESL file is if it were a small mod that I had no intention to update.
If you do need any help though, feel free to contact me and I'll try to assist you.
No problems, I almost figured you would say that and I totally understand. I already got the 2.0.4 .esl version up and running, but thank you for replying (and your mod ofc) Cheers
Hey, I just wanted to leave some encouraging words for you ;) I downloaded 3.0, but am still using 2.4, since I want to disable settlement attacks. Since I stumbled upon your mod many moons ago, it never left my load order. Reading your comments makes it clear that you know what you do and are fully aware of the frailty of F4s settlement scripts^^ It's a bummer that your mod doesn't get more attention, I hope you continue your work.
thanks for this awesome mod, that was exactly what I was looking for! Especially your extra features like transferring items between workbenches when there is a supply route are awesome! Are you going to release the bugfixed version that includes the fix you described on Oct 29th soon by chance? And since someone asked before if you could also release a version without the disable settlement attacks-feature, I would second this. Even if you don't have to use it, but I'm using another mod that influences settlement attacks already, and would like to avoid incompatibilities. Plus it looks nicer when you are not going to use that feature anyway.
Thanks. Yeah, I ended up fixing the bug months ago, but I wanted to add other features in the same update, which I never got around to finishing. What resulted was those additional features not getting finished before my exam period, after which I got into SSE and have since released a couple mods for. I'll be releasing an update for this mod within the next couple of weeks (which I'd take as a conservative estimate).
The settlement attacks feature does absolutely nothing while disabled, so there shouldn't be any harm in having it installed in a game where you have other mods also editing settlement attacks (assuming you don't enable the feature). Therefore, I won't be releasing a version without it (mostly because that would be a pain in the ass, as it would mean that I would have to implement every change twice in the future). Can you please direct me to the other mod that you mentioned which supposedly influences settlement attacks? To my knowledge, this is the only mod that influences settlement attacks. That is, at least without editing the WorkshopParentScript itself, which in my opinion is poor practice, considering how many other mods edit that particular base game script. That could have of course changed since I last looked though.
So there is no chance for some small hotfix-release, when the bug is fixed already? Sure, the other mod that influences settlement attacks is Uncapped Settlement Surplus: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12430/?
It's more of the fact that it's been a while since I last looked at the changes I made, so I'd have to put some time into re-testing the patch, etc. It's also a matter of looking at the script now, there's a heap of changes that I want to make before I release anything. It's that feeling that you get when you finish something, go off and learn a bunch of new things, and then go back to your old work only for it to look a bit crap. To my knowledge, this bug only affects the one area of the one settlement, so it's not a huge bug, as annoying as it would be when dealing with that settlement.
Honestly, the biggest factor when it comes to an updates timeline is my interest in the project. There are a heap of significant changes I plan to make to the mod (in the backend at least), so it's a matter of me being hesitant to get started, but I should get stuck into things after I get started. I've had some decent ideas for a couple other mods, and I have limited free time, so a guesstimate would be 1-2 weeks, but I could be wrong (e.g. my previous estimate). I'm sorry that it won't be sooner.
After taking a quick look at the mod you linked me to, we edit completely different things. He seems to edit the property tracking the days since the last attack, whereas this mod straight up enables/disabled settlement attacks altogether. In that sense, our two methods should be compatible with one another, as we both remotely edit different WorkshopParentScript properties.
Please remember that this isn't me officially saying that the two mods are compatible, it's just what I saw after a quick look at his decompiled scripts. To be sure I'd either have to have a better look or ask the mod author directly.
Edit: Even if the Allow Attacks feature is incompatible with the similar feature of the other mod, the mods themselves should be compatible (as you don't need to enable the Allow Attacks feature).
If you're looking for an update - I've spent some time today going through and fixing up a couple of the scripts. In saying that, there's still a lot left to do. I still need to fix up the majority of the of the perk script, which will probably take the same amount of time as I've already invested today. Even when that's done, there's still a lot left to do. I would still need to make some reasonably significant changes to the .esp itself, which I'll probably just recreate from scratch.
There's also the need to set up a dynamic alias system, which I also spent some time on today. I ended up creating a small separate mod a couple days ago to test this functionality out, which I'll probably spend the next few days fleshing out before I publish it. Beyond that there's adding new features and expanding existing features, which I do have some plans for.
All in all, the update will be a while still, but it will be reasonably significant. As I'm changing and redoing a lot of things, the update will require a clean save. You'll also have to keep in mind that you'll have to reset your various values to default, otherwise you'll have a borked save game. That is, the save game will still function fine, but you won't be able to restore the settlement related values that this mod edits to default. Hopefully, this won't be an issue for future updates.
Hey KernalsEgg. Sorry to Necro-post here, but I thought it might be helpful to know about another good mod that effects settlement attacks. BS Defence does a somewhat different job then USS, and in fact both mods compliment each other and are designed to work together. While Uncapped Settlement Surplus effects the timer and sort of spreads attacks out more, BS Defence effects how attacks work when you are away from your settlement.
Anyone interested can read the description page of that mod, but I'll see if I can give an explanation. When a warning pops up saying a settlement is under attack, and you don't go (because you're in Far Harbor or something), the game runs some calculations to determine if your settlers win or lose this attack. Now here's the problem - while the base game takes into account if your defense + population is higher then your food + water, there's both a random number roll added to the attackers and defenders, and those numbers are both capped. What that means for you (anyone reading this who probably isn't the mod author who I'm sure knows all this), is that no matter how high above 100 your defense is, there is still an alarmingly high chance that your settlers will just lose an encounter (yes even with those 300 laser turrets and missile launchers). Well most people, including the author of BSD, think this is stupid. So his mod bypasses the random number part of the equation entirely, so as long as your settlement's defenses are higher then food+water your settlers will win 100% of the time when you aren't there. This is both more realistic (cause how did they survive until you came along if they can't kill a couple molerats without you around?) and allows you to have more settlements and travel farther distances as long as you set up good defenses. It also allows small settlements or ones you don't do much with to only need a little defense and then you can leave them be, while settlements you use for water purification farms need to be much more highly defended, which makes sense because they're basically producing large amounts of "valuables".
Anyway, just thought I'd put BS Defence on your radar. Both so you know another settlement attack mod people might be using, and so you can check it out yourself. I highly recommend it, especially with USS. If you want more or harder attacks both mods will allow for that to. All that said, I personally will be using those two mods, and not the settlement attack portion of your mod. Nothing personal of course, just preference in how attacks are handled. That said, I will definitely use the budget part of your mod, as I was sent here as an alternative to DDP's budget increase mod which persists in saves. And this seems a lot easier to use and keep track of then using the console commands.
Thanks for your great mod, utility mods like this are why we can keep playing ^_^.
The difference between the mods appears to be design philosophy. First off, BSD goes about things by editing vanilla scripts. This is something that I avoid at all costs. For example, this mod (WCP) would be much simpler to implement if I just added the functionality directly to the WorkshopParentScript. Instead, I remotely edit a property of the WorkshopParentScript to recreate the same functionality.
Why wouldn't I want to save myself time and directly edit the vanilla script? A couple reasons. First, supporting multiple versions of a single mod is draining work. As you can see on the BSD mod page, they have to support compatibility with UFO4P. This is because UFO4P edits a heap of vanilla scripts, because who would have guessed it, bugs are everywhere. There are probably several other mods that edit the same vanilla script that BSD doesn't support (vanilla settlement scripts are edited by a heap of mods).
This means that every time a mod with a compatibility patch is updated, you may have to update your own mod to reflect whatever changes were made. This also means that other MA's may have to release compatibility patches for your mod. Compatibility patches mean that you constantly have to be on the ball to ensure that you're supporting the most recent version of the mods.
Identifying and fixing bugs is already a massive undertaking in a mod of this size. Compatibility patches makes things exponentially more difficult (and the mod exponentially more prone to bugs), as there are that many more combinations of mods that you have to investigate.
Secondly, editing vanilla scripts is generally a bad idea. If you want to corrupt your save files, that's definitely a good way to go about things. Specifically, when either updating the mod or removing the mod (clean saves can only do so much). Hell, you could even corrupt your save by adding mods that edit vanilla scripts to an existing save-game. You'll notice that the UFO4P team don't support adding the mod to an existing save-game. As WCP influences everything through foreign scripts, it's much safer to either add, update or remove this mod.
Sadly, relying upon foreign scripts to modify properties of vanilla scripts drastically limits your capacity to add new features. For example, I'm unsure whether the features of BSD are even possible without directly editing the vanilla script. I know that several mods that do similar things aren't. As I've outlined, editing vanilla scripts is a huge hassle for both the MA and the user. For that reason, I stay away from editing vanilla scripts in my own mods.
I would have spent days just reading through the vanilla settlement scripts to see what was possible. However, it quickly became apparent that a lot of features simply weren't possible without editing the vanilla scripts. I would have forgotten half of it, as this was a while ago now, though.
Going back to the whole design philosophy point I was making. All I was aiming to achieve with this feature was to add functionality to the game that everyone thought was there in the first place. Everyone thought that this is how the game worked in the first place. Turns out it wasn't, so I set out to change that.
Technically, all three mods should be compatible, as they edit different things. Again, that's only after a quick look at the scripts and with a general idea of how the other two mods work. I'm generally pretty busy, so I prefer to make mods than to spend time confirming compatibility.
I do want to make sure you didn't think I was criticizing you or the way you mod. In point of fact, I wanted to use this mod specifically *because* it doesn't mess with vanilla scripts and saves. As I said, I came here to find an alternative to DDP's mod, which is notorious for both.
Truth be told, I would rather not use mods that mess with vanilla scripts, but sometimes I can't totally avoid that. I do make a point of not messing with scripts like that in existing games. My hunt for a mod like this was due to setting up a new mod list to install for a new play-through. And besides updating I was not going to add or remove any mods once this play-through got underway.
I agree with your reasoning on editing vanilla scripts, and I admire how much work must have gone into finding a viable work-around. I actually think BS Defence is one of the only mods I use outside the unofficial patch that messes with vanilla scripts. Most mods I use are either texture replacers (no scripts, some are just loose others are usually empty ba2s), settlement workshop building mods (the kind that add workshop items. I make a point of looking for ones that inject scripts of their own and don't screw with the vanilla menus when possible), and a very small amount of utility/fix mods like this one. I do try to find mods that use their own assets, run their own scripts, or otherwise don't alter vanilla scripts very much if at all. I have found with a few very old mods its unavoidable, though most of those change a single value or variable and if I don't use any other mods that effect that mechanic I'm fine.
As for saying I was going to use the other two mods over yours for defense, I did not mean that to sound rude. I worry I gave the wrong impression. I was still going to use your mod for its other functions. Actually the *only* reason I was going to use them is because they don't *disable* attacks (though I believe both have an option to). USS just makes attacks only happen once a week per settlement, which is good if you have 30+ settlements so you don't get quest-spammed to go save them all. And BSD only effects the outcomes of settlements you don't go help, if you go in person it does nothing. Please correct me if I am wrong, but from what I can tell, your mod either disables attacks completely, or if choosing one of the other two settings, disables attacks for a settlement that exceeds the variable chosen, am I right? If I am wrong I am sorry. On the description page it just says you can change attack frequency based on variables but gives no details, and the images only show the one menu with the options for no attacks, safety>food+water, and safety>food+2*water. So I assumed the two variable options mean if your defense rating is above the food and water variable no attacks will happen in that settlement. For the record if I am wrong and this option does something else, I have no problem replacing the relevant mod or function I have, as I do not like redundancy in my mods. To my knowledge BSD is the only mod effecting the "success" or "failure" of attacks made on settlements you are not in, which is why I put up with its script editing. If your mod fixes this, or you know of one that does with a safer method, please let me know. I would be happy to use it and tell others about it. I just work with what I have or hear about.
Once again, I am sorry if I came off as rude, that truly was not my intent. I like your mod and consider it much safer then most. Your time and dedication really show.
No, I didn't take your comment as rude. I was just providing insight into my perspective.
Each mod that I discussed did different things in different ways. There's no reason for me to be offended that you chose not to use a feature. There's enough features in this mod that it's bound to happen. I appreciate any feedback that people give me.
You appear to understand how the Settlement Attacks feature works. It will disable attacks in a settlement if your defense rating exceeds the combined multiple of your food and water rating. This is how people theorised that the settlement defense system worked. Turns out it didn't, so I added that feature so that could be the case.
If that's not your cup of tea, then I can understand.
I have seen other mods that affect the success of off-screen settlement attacks. I can't remember them by name, so I can't be of much help there. I think I remember them doing things differently, but I can't be sure. I've looked at a lot of settlement related script-based mods, and they all kind of blur together over time. Sorry I couldn't be of any greater help.
What specifically about the Horizon sorting system concerns you? I don't use the mod, so I'm unaware whether there's anything unusual about Horizon's implementation of their sorting system. The only thing that springs to mind is that they also make use of an activator on the Workbench. That would be an issue because the game limits itself to a maximum of three activators per object.
I can have a look into it myself tomorrow, but any additional details that you could give me would be appreciated.
93 comments
Version 3.4.1
It appears that the 20 button limit imposed by the Creation Kit on message boxes is artificial, considering I was able to bypass it using FO4Edit (which I don't usually use to make mods). It doesn't look like there have been any repercussions, and I've seen other reputable mods do this as well (e.g. Horizon), so we should be in the clear. This has allowed me to merge the 4 pages of workshops into 1, which has made things simpler. I've also made some performance improvements to the script, so it should generate your list of connected workshops quicker.
The Unassign Provisioners feature works by obtaining the list of provisioners from the WorkshopParent quest alias. So, if a mod assigns a provisioner and doesn't add that actor to the CaravanActorAliases ref col alias, then it won't be detected by this feature. I'm not sure why you wouldn't, though. This is what the vanilla game uses to unassign provisioners (at least in some circumstances), so this shouldn't cause any issues. If you do unassign any provisioners that are unloaded, then just wait around and they'll slowly make their way back to the settlement like any other unassigned settler. On a side note, I recommend that you use the UFO4P if you're planning to use this feature, as it patches a bug that affects the function that I'm using to unassign the provisioners. Long story short, it makes scripts form a queue of sorts when unassigning settlers, so that they can be edited safely.
I've spent a lot of time walking between settlements, back and forth, looking for a provisioner and then waiting for them to walk to the nearest settlement, so I'm happy that I've finally got this feature out.
Version 3.3.0
The Transfer Items feature allows you to open the inventories of workshops that you are connected to via supply line. I'm actually pretty happy with this feature as it's a much better solution than how it worked in version 2.0.4, where you simply moved all of the items between the containers. However, the implementation has some shortcomings that come about from message boxes/pop-up menus being rather static in nature. You are given a maximum of 20 buttons per message box, and you can only pass in floats (numbers) as variables.
This has two major implications. First, there are 36 workshops in the base game and DLC, so you need at least two message boxes to fit them all in. If you consider the "Next...", "Previous..." and ">Close" buttons, this works out to at least three message boxes. Second, you can't dynamically change button names via scripts. So, I can't read the name of the workshop via script and print it to the buttons, which would allow for compatibility with settlements added by mods. Instead, a patch will be necessary. This also means that I can't just give you all of the settlements in the one message box if you happen to have less than 20 settlements connected via supply line.
So, as a compromise I've set it up with 4 message boxes, each with 9 of the 36 settlements in alphabetical order (discounting any "the" prefix). I felt this was best as it allowed for an even distribution of settlements across the message boxes, and didn't make the list too long. Unfortunately, all 4 message boxes show up even if you can only access a single settlement. So, in this case you'll have 3 message boxes with no settlement available to access. A workaround is possible, but I didn't think it would be worth complicating the scripts.
If there are going to be any bugs, it will most likely result from me having to type in and assign settlement names so many times. If you look at the script and the ESP, you'll see that I've had to do that a number of times per settlement. If such a bug exists, it would most likely result in you either being unable to access a specific settlements workbench, or you being given access to the wrong settlement workbench. I was pretty careful when I was setting this up, so hopefully there aren't any bugs. Even if you do encounter this type of bug, if you give me the details, it's a simple fix - I just need to know where to look.
Version 3.1.0
The Highlight feature has the potential to expose some things that you may not have noticed before. If you choose to highlight synth settlers and don't have the Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch installed, you may notice that you can get synth Brahmin. If you choose to highlight unassigned settlers, it will only highlight settlers that you can assign. For example, children will auto-assign themselves, but you cannot assign them. So, even if they are unassigned, they will not be highlighted.
If a settler is not being highlighted when you believe it should, then keep in mind that this is either a bug with the vanilla game or another mod that edits the WorkshopNPCScript that this feature takes advantage of. Feel free to report the issue and I'll try to help you, but know that I'll need more information than "my settler isn't being highlighted".
Moved from the description:
I plan on taking this mod in a new direction as of version 3.0.0. Rather than cramming all features into a single download, I have opted to separate each feature, and the menu itself into individual files. This allows you guys to mix and match different features, meaning that you don't have to install a feature if you don't want to. This makes it easier for me to develop new features and maintain existing features. However, it does also mean that you will have more plugins in your load order (sorry about that).
None of the features will function without the main file, the Workshop Control Panel itself. So, please make sure to always have that installed if you intend to use this mod at all. Load order is irrelevant however, so feel free to chuck them wherever.
edit: nevermind, it was apparently an option i had to turn off in workshop plus so it wouldn't try to open the workshop plus settings from the bench...
Edit: Actually nevermind, I just realized that Loot detector has what I would miss in the newer version so I'll just use the 2.0 version and change it into an .Esl myself. This is an awesome mod and I also think it should have more attention. Cheers
You won't be able to convert version 3.0.0+ to an ESL file because the scripts communicate remotely (to link the menus together). Specifying the file extension is necessary when doing this. To convert this mod into an ESL file you would have to edit the scripts to reference the new ESL file extension and recompile them. I’ve given you guys the source code in the BA2 archives. So, all you would have to do to get started is use a tool such as BAE to extract the loose files.
I don’t intend on supporting version 2.0.4 anymore. As you say, it would be a simple process to convert it to an ESL file yourself, though. I keep it around because not all features available in version 2.0.4 are currently available in version 3.0.0+. Though, don’t expect them to ever be, as there are several features that I either just don’t like the implementation of, or I don’t like the feature to begin with. For example, the Cheats and Settlement Attacks features (I may find a different way to implement the latter). I’ll be more officially phasing version 2.0.4 out once I manage to release a more complete feature set for version 3.0.0+. So, download version 2.0.4 while you can, as it won’t be there forever.
I don’t create mods to manage them. I create mods because I want to make something that I think is cool. I personally find releasing multiple versions of the same mod a hassle, whether it’s to patch something or to release them to other websites (e.g. Bethesda.NET). So, I make my mods as compatible as possible, and I only release my mods to the Nexus. Even then, I spend more time than I would like on managing my mods. So, the only time I would think to release an ESL file is if it were a small mod that I had no intention to update.
If you do need any help though, feel free to contact me and I'll try to assist you.
I downloaded 3.0, but am still using 2.4, since I want to disable settlement attacks. Since I stumbled upon your mod many moons ago, it never left my load order. Reading your comments makes it clear that you know what you do and are fully aware of the frailty of F4s settlement scripts^^
It's a bummer that your mod doesn't get more attention, I hope you continue your work.
thanks for this awesome mod, that was exactly what I was looking for!
Especially your extra features like transferring items between workbenches when there is a supply route are awesome!
Are you going to release the bugfixed version that includes the fix you described on Oct 29th soon by chance?
And since someone asked before if you could also release a version without the disable settlement attacks-feature, I would second this. Even if you don't have to use it, but I'm using another mod that influences settlement attacks already, and would like to avoid incompatibilities. Plus it looks nicer when you are not going to use that feature anyway.
Thank you and keep up the good work! (:
The settlement attacks feature does absolutely nothing while disabled, so there shouldn't be any harm in having it installed in a game where you have other mods also editing settlement attacks (assuming you don't enable the feature). Therefore, I won't be releasing a version without it (mostly because that would be a pain in the ass, as it would mean that I would have to implement every change twice in the future). Can you please direct me to the other mod that you mentioned which supposedly influences settlement attacks? To my knowledge, this is the only mod that influences settlement attacks. That is, at least without editing the WorkshopParentScript itself, which in my opinion is poor practice, considering how many other mods edit that particular base game script. That could have of course changed since I last looked though.
Sure, the other mod that influences settlement attacks is Uncapped Settlement Surplus:
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12430/?
Honestly, the biggest factor when it comes to an updates timeline is my interest in the project. There are a heap of significant changes I plan to make to the mod (in the backend at least), so it's a matter of me being hesitant to get started, but I should get stuck into things after I get started. I've had some decent ideas for a couple other mods, and I have limited free time, so a guesstimate would be 1-2 weeks, but I could be wrong (e.g. my previous estimate). I'm sorry that it won't be sooner.
After taking a quick look at the mod you linked me to, we edit completely different things. He seems to edit the property tracking the days since the last attack, whereas this mod straight up enables/disabled settlement attacks altogether. In that sense, our two methods should be compatible with one another, as we both remotely edit different WorkshopParentScript properties.
I'm excited for the update, thanks for this great mod!
Edit: Even if the Allow Attacks feature is incompatible with the similar feature of the other mod, the mods themselves should be compatible (as you don't need to enable the Allow Attacks feature).
There's also the need to set up a dynamic alias system, which I also spent some time on today. I ended up creating a small separate mod a couple days ago to test this functionality out, which I'll probably spend the next few days fleshing out before I publish it. Beyond that there's adding new features and expanding existing features, which I do have some plans for.
All in all, the update will be a while still, but it will be reasonably significant. As I'm changing and redoing a lot of things, the update will require a clean save. You'll also have to keep in mind that you'll have to reset your various values to default, otherwise you'll have a borked save game. That is, the save game will still function fine, but you won't be able to restore the settlement related values that this mod edits to default. Hopefully, this won't be an issue for future updates.
Anyone interested can read the description page of that mod, but I'll see if I can give an explanation. When a warning pops up saying a settlement is under attack, and you don't go (because you're in Far Harbor or something), the game runs some calculations to determine if your settlers win or lose this attack. Now here's the problem - while the base game takes into account if your defense + population is higher then your food + water, there's both a random number roll added to the attackers and defenders, and those numbers are both capped. What that means for you (anyone reading this who probably isn't the mod author who I'm sure knows all this), is that no matter how high above 100 your defense is, there is still an alarmingly high chance that your settlers will just lose an encounter (yes even with those 300 laser turrets and missile launchers). Well most people, including the author of BSD, think this is stupid. So his mod bypasses the random number part of the equation entirely, so as long as your settlement's defenses are higher then food+water your settlers will win 100% of the time when you aren't there. This is both more realistic (cause how did they survive until you came along if they can't kill a couple molerats without you around?) and allows you to have more settlements and travel farther distances as long as you set up good defenses. It also allows small settlements or ones you don't do much with to only need a little defense and then you can leave them be, while settlements you use for water purification farms need to be much more highly defended, which makes sense because they're basically producing large amounts of "valuables".
Anyway, just thought I'd put BS Defence on your radar. Both so you know another settlement attack mod people might be using, and so you can check it out yourself. I highly recommend it, especially with USS. If you want more or harder attacks both mods will allow for that to. All that said, I personally will be using those two mods, and not the settlement attack portion of your mod. Nothing personal of course, just preference in how attacks are handled. That said, I will definitely use the budget part of your mod, as I was sent here as an alternative to DDP's budget increase mod which persists in saves. And this seems a lot easier to use and keep track of then using the console commands.
Thanks for your great mod, utility mods like this are why we can keep playing ^_^.
Why wouldn't I want to save myself time and directly edit the vanilla script? A couple reasons. First, supporting multiple versions of a single mod is draining work. As you can see on the BSD mod page, they have to support compatibility with UFO4P. This is because UFO4P edits a heap of vanilla scripts, because who would have guessed it, bugs are everywhere. There are probably several other mods that edit the same vanilla script that BSD doesn't support (vanilla settlement scripts are edited by a heap of mods).
This means that every time a mod with a compatibility patch is updated, you may have to update your own mod to reflect whatever changes were made. This also means that other MA's may have to release compatibility patches for your mod. Compatibility patches mean that you constantly have to be on the ball to ensure that you're supporting the most recent version of the mods.
Identifying and fixing bugs is already a massive undertaking in a mod of this size. Compatibility patches makes things exponentially more difficult (and the mod exponentially more prone to bugs), as there are that many more combinations of mods that you have to investigate.
Secondly, editing vanilla scripts is generally a bad idea. If you want to corrupt your save files, that's definitely a good way to go about things. Specifically, when either updating the mod or removing the mod (clean saves can only do so much). Hell, you could even corrupt your save by adding mods that edit vanilla scripts to an existing save-game. You'll notice that the UFO4P team don't support adding the mod to an existing save-game. As WCP influences everything through foreign scripts, it's much safer to either add, update or remove this mod.
Sadly, relying upon foreign scripts to modify properties of vanilla scripts drastically limits your capacity to add new features. For example, I'm unsure whether the features of BSD are even possible without directly editing the vanilla script. I know that several mods that do similar things aren't. As I've outlined, editing vanilla scripts is a huge hassle for both the MA and the user. For that reason, I stay away from editing vanilla scripts in my own mods.
I would have spent days just reading through the vanilla settlement scripts to see what was possible. However, it quickly became apparent that a lot of features simply weren't possible without editing the vanilla scripts. I would have forgotten half of it, as this was a while ago now, though.
Going back to the whole design philosophy point I was making. All I was aiming to achieve with this feature was to add functionality to the game that everyone thought was there in the first place. Everyone thought that this is how the game worked in the first place. Turns out it wasn't, so I set out to change that.
Technically, all three mods should be compatible, as they edit different things. Again, that's only after a quick look at the scripts and with a general idea of how the other two mods work. I'm generally pretty busy, so I prefer to make mods than to spend time confirming compatibility.
I do want to make sure you didn't think I was criticizing you or the way you mod. In point of fact, I wanted to use this mod specifically *because* it doesn't mess with vanilla scripts and saves. As I said, I came here to find an alternative to DDP's mod, which is notorious for both.
Truth be told, I would rather not use mods that mess with vanilla scripts, but sometimes I can't totally avoid that. I do make a point of not messing with scripts like that in existing games. My hunt for a mod like this was due to setting up a new mod list to install for a new play-through. And besides updating I was not going to add or remove any mods once this play-through got underway.
I agree with your reasoning on editing vanilla scripts, and I admire how much work must have gone into finding a viable work-around. I actually think BS Defence is one of the only mods I use outside the unofficial patch that messes with vanilla scripts. Most mods I use are either texture replacers (no scripts, some are just loose others are usually empty ba2s), settlement workshop building mods (the kind that add workshop items. I make a point of looking for ones that inject scripts of their own and don't screw with the vanilla menus when possible), and a very small amount of utility/fix mods like this one. I do try to find mods that use their own assets, run their own scripts, or otherwise don't alter vanilla scripts very much if at all. I have found with a few very old mods its unavoidable, though most of those change a single value or variable and if I don't use any other mods that effect that mechanic I'm fine.
As for saying I was going to use the other two mods over yours for defense, I did not mean that to sound rude. I worry I gave the wrong impression. I was still going to use your mod for its other functions. Actually the *only* reason I was going to use them is because they don't *disable* attacks (though I believe both have an option to). USS just makes attacks only happen once a week per settlement, which is good if you have 30+ settlements so you don't get quest-spammed to go save them all. And BSD only effects the outcomes of settlements you don't go help, if you go in person it does nothing. Please correct me if I am wrong, but from what I can tell, your mod either disables attacks completely, or if choosing one of the other two settings, disables attacks for a settlement that exceeds the variable chosen, am I right? If I am wrong I am sorry. On the description page it just says you can change attack frequency based on variables but gives no details, and the images only show the one menu with the options for no attacks, safety>food+water, and safety>food+2*water. So I assumed the two variable options mean if your defense rating is above the food and water variable no attacks will happen in that settlement. For the record if I am wrong and this option does something else, I have no problem replacing the relevant mod or function I have, as I do not like redundancy in my mods. To my knowledge BSD is the only mod effecting the "success" or "failure" of attacks made on settlements you are not in, which is why I put up with its script editing. If your mod fixes this, or you know of one that does with a safer method, please let me know. I would be happy to use it and tell others about it. I just work with what I have or hear about.
Once again, I am sorry if I came off as rude, that truly was not my intent. I like your mod and consider it much safer then most. Your time and dedication really show.
Each mod that I discussed did different things in different ways. There's no reason for me to be offended that you chose not to use a feature. There's enough features in this mod that it's bound to happen. I appreciate any feedback that people give me.
You appear to understand how the Settlement Attacks feature works. It will disable attacks in a settlement if your defense rating exceeds the combined multiple of your food and water rating. This is how people theorised that the settlement defense system worked. Turns out it didn't, so I added that feature so that could be the case.
If that's not your cup of tea, then I can understand.
I have seen other mods that affect the success of off-screen settlement attacks. I can't remember them by name, so I can't be of much help there. I think I remember them doing things differently, but I can't be sure. I've looked at a lot of settlement related script-based mods, and they all kind of blur together over time. Sorry I couldn't be of any greater help.
I can have a look into it myself tomorrow, but any additional details that you could give me would be appreciated.