Ignoring all the arguments about lore, I just find this adds some more balance to the game. Now I only have a few full cores instead of like, a gazillion of them. Thanks.
A small fusion core generate power for a whole building. And when i take out the core it is still full. Sorry for wondering something not about this mod but it make me curious. And how can a core that small power a whole building for more than 200 years and still full, but when using with power armor it run out of power so fast?
Whole this concept with replaceable fusion cores is just another Bethesda's 'great' idea, and it's not first time they break existing canone and make another. Originally PA don't need core replace at least one hundred years in non-stop working mode. But can imagine Beths thoughts, i'm sure it was something like this:
Spoiler:
Show
TH: Hey guy, we will put RPG genre to the new level and make from it AAA shooter! And as prof of concept we'll give player full suit of power armor in first ten minuts of gameplay! CM1: full suit?! TH: even more, we'll give minigun, and dethclaw, and raiders, and laser rifle, and hell of ammo! Hell year, it will be game of the year! CM2: but isn't it a little bit over powered start! TH: Hmmm, maybe you right, then will nerf it in some way... batteries! We'll make PA run on batteries! CM1: maybe fussion core? TH: also good. CM3: and what is it core exactly, and how player will get it? TH: Who cares, it's POWER ARMOR!!!!1111 Just put them in places. Where batteries culd be, in a stores... CM1 fussion core, fusion... fusion... fusion generator... TH: yeah, it will do it. That's it, let's code! CM2: wow whait, and what will be with generator, does it have some other purpose? What will be with building that contain generator and its core ejected? And what... TH: Who cares! Just do it, and modders will fix that!
My guess is the "generators" in the buildings are actually recharging the FCs (like how the alternator in a car engine recharges its battery), but power armor doesn't, presumably because it takes a generator that large to recharge a FC? I dunno, just a guess.
maybe you should realize that the old stuff is not entirely cannon it isn't Bethesda's, the newer games are how Bethesda views the universe doesn't mean it is worse
Simply gameplay reasons I guess. I dunno about you, but I usually sell all my non-full fusion cores. (even +90%) So I imagine I would sell nearly every fusion core I got if it was partially drained.
Nonetheless, a fusion core is essentially a mini nuclear reactor, in canon.
@Wenderer If you want to think that way, I guess. In general you'll avoid a LOT of frustration if you accept newer stuff as canon. (Because chances are, LITERALLY every bit of Fallout content we get from here-on-out will be based on, and therefore most compatible with, the newer canon.) Even same-companies sometimes revise old canon to bring it 'up to snuff' with everything else.
Though for many things, there are canonical ways of combining BOTH old and new canon; just because the company doesn't blatantly state the canonical combination, it can be left to interpretation.
I think the problem is Bethesda has already shown us from the last couple games that they cant even stick to THEIR OWN re imagining of the story. Its not like power armor didnt exist and operate in a way that was POLAR OPPOSITE in the last 2 games.
What would be smart would be if instead of this fusion core crap it was the same "200 year life" reactor except by now many of these units are failing because the plutonium or whatever is in the reactor is no longer reactive. Despite them being scattered and abandoned all over the wasteland, they are useless until you either complete a quest or randomly discover spare plutonium or a spare power unit. Would have worked with their existing frame system except an extra piece that attaches to frame that is a power unit. That or you have to insert a rare element into the power armor frame to reactivate the fusion process (I dont know much about nuclear energy.) Action point sprinting and power attacks can still be a thing possibly via some sort of capacitors because the fusion reactor is not designed for high energy output but rather longer service life (200 years.)
Im a freaking genius. Also I love this game to death but REALLY Bethesda? We couldnt have made something cool, new and exciting while also maintaining the existing story? T-45a is the only power armor run on fusion cells as far as I remember from Fallout lore, everything else was fusion reactor. I mean if all power armor DID run on fusion cores why the hell would the brotherhood waste all their cores with gatling guns rather than saving them for their armor? Just too many inconsistencies. Like a child wrote the story. True immersion in the story and atmosphere is what hooks people to this game, why be so careless about the changes??
Well, canon aside, I thought the "Beth's thoughts" spoiler was pretty funny. Probably because I've actually sat in those types of meetings with managers and developers, didn't have any control at the time, and just sat back and stared at the ceiling in painful agony...
Marketing and Management have WAY to much influence in these types of things as a company grows today. They do need to have SOME influence because the bottom line is that it's a company. As an investor or shareholder, I could care less about canon. I want a return on my investment. Where you can accomplish both, then great. I totally get that. If the company doesn't make enough money, then it will get folded into another company you probably like less or it will just wither and die. Nature of the times (and I'm speaking from personal experience - been through many acquisitions).
So, I understand intimately that these discussions are actually needed and the teams have to come to a compromise sometimes because, well, we gamers are just fickle people. We really are (as a group that is). But, even considering that, I think we've reached a point where there isn't compromise anymore, which is what I do have a concern with. Developers are just told "hey, this is what marketing/management wants - do it". Canon or no canon - that's just bad business practice, but becoming more and more of an issue for these companies as they continue to grow. We as gamers unfortunately sometimes intentionally or unintentionally blame the developers, but in reality many of the developers are just trying to feed their families, and probably end up going home each day griping about how idiotic their company is.
Oh well... I just laugh at it now. So, Wenderer's original response was both amusing and probably closer to the truth than we realize... LOL
well actually there is a line in Fallout 2 where they say the Power Armors cores will only last another 107 years without a new source of power so really their were cores in as far back as 2, just no PLAYER enabled way to replace them
Canon is overrated when it comes to games. I like that some ideas are reinvented with each iteration. It keeps things from getting stale and repetitive. Plus if your looking for logic in a videogame universe I would wager that you won't find it anywhere.
" A small fusion core generate power for a whole building. And when i take out the core it is still full. Sorry for wondering something not about this mod but it make me curious. And how can a core that small power a whole building for more than 200 years and still full, but when using with power armor it run out of power so fast? "
Who says some cores been running in some generator for 200+ yrs? Somebody 'could have' JUST put in a new/old one 'not 5 minutes ago' from when the sole survivor 'walks in' on it. Granted that Bethesda could indeed have added lots more variations on the charge the found cores have. Having most of them at 100 is a bit weird since real life nuclear batteries drain weither you use them or not.
I can easily see how a PWR Armor could use as much power as an entire house and faster. Not really anything strange there for me. If we had PWR sources that small AND safe we'd have PWR Armos like in Iron Man and FO w/ all the laser weapons, no kidding! We'd still need new materials (currently unrealized/non-existing) for the plasma weapons.
The size thing doesn't really say anything at least when compared to real world nuclear batteries (RTG's, for example) which can be smaller than your microwave. The ones they had in the 70's could give at least +/-1000kW of power for DECADES, non-stop with just a small plutonium core. Actually the 70's Voyager spacecraft have these RTG's and they STILL have some juice left or my info could be outdated a little and they have just run out of juice recently.
They actually loose some power output at some point as they start to slowly cool down emitting gasses and thus increase casing pressure, unlike the Fallout ones which don't change in output at all but simply just die when they're out. However, their 'charge' (wrong term for a nuclear battery, I think) doesn't run out faster/slower the more PWR you use because the rate of radioactive decay and heat generated from it stays the friggin' same for as long as there's any decaying left to be done for that ammount of core material. I'm not sure if that rate is known to sometimes change/fluctuate but I don't think it does that in any significant way. So you'd simply 'blackout' when drawing too much PWR without actually draining the thing any faster. Therefore the Fallout faster/slower core draining system is total horsecrap.
I don't really understand why they blow up in-game because I don't think they really blow up like that in real life. There's nothing inside them that would make them blow up like in FO but they do accumulate pressure inside as they age so they may rupture violently releasing horrible, smoldering hot radioactive crap in your face.
Their heat is converted into electricity w/ thermal couples. In a case of a hypothetical PWR Armor, you could have the thermal coupling inside the PWR Armor thus making the 'nuclear battery' even smaller. Then it would essentailly be just a covered up chunk of something extremely radioactive that stays 'mega hot' for a long time weither you use it or don't.... sooo that then means how/why it will actually 'run out' at a decay rate that the used material has weither you use it or don't!"!!! Holy smokes.
Besides... it's known that nuclear detonations cause an electro magnetic pulse that can be devastating to active electrical applience. I'm not sure if 'one blast' will destroy 'all devices' turned on but, to me, it clearly indicates that the working machines and things we find were turned off when the bombs fell and/or repaired over time. It's pretty likely since there were several bombs after all so the impact of the EMP would have been significant, I'd imagine.
Hummm...
Oh yeah and thanks for this, great mod/fix.
Endorsed.
-------- EDIT: --------
Come to think of it, fallout has FUSION cores, not nuclear. Huh.
The reason the core is still full after 200 years with the generator running is because it's exceedingly efficient. That's why it's literally one of the biggest and most expensive generators you can build. It has feedback chargers. Likely has a way of trickle charging off ambient radiation or energy. Also the reason your power armor isn't the size of a house. it only draws power. it doesn't put any back in.
" The reason the core is still full after 200 years with the generator running is because it's exceedingly efficient. That's why it's literally one of the biggest and most expensive generators you can build. It has feedback chargers. Likely has a way of trickle charging off ambient radiation or energy. Also the reason your power armor isn't the size of a house. it only draws power. it doesn't put any back in. " --------- H3xx,
Nice try but THAT is not how nuclear batteries work in the real world.
The cores would be either empty or drained somewhat even if the generators were off or even if the core was just sitting on a table. Depends on the core material and ammount (radioactive decay/half-life) THAT is how they actually work for real. Using them does not make them drain any faster! The ONLY way they could be "exceedingly efficient" is to have better thermal coupling and insulation to be able to convert as much of their heat as possible into electricity. The pressure inside could possibly be converted as well but that might be too tricky as I think it would have to oscillate somehow to be any good. As far as these matters go, they waste a lot of heat, btw, I think it has something to do with pressure built up inside the core casing. Another way to increase efficiency would be using betavoltaics in addition to thermal coupling where your core material would actually emit beta particles (beta radiation) which can be converted/used for current. I seem to have forgotten how that actually works but anyway... that way you'd have an additional source of electricity in addition to just the heat conversion.
Mind you thats not fantasy made up game lore but real life!
As for the charging action you described:
Sorry, again, nice try but thats not very practicle to a point where it probably wouldn't be possible or useful unless it had been charging for 200yrs total... which is kind of interesting since it actually would have had time to charge for 200 yrs total...!
Your "feedback" chargers would have to emit radiation and direct it to the core material irradiating it which would heat it up some. That would be the only way I can imagine to try to 'recharge' a nuclear battery core... That's just... not gonna happen when your using it in a generator. Sorry. Think of what your using to do that - is taken away from what your getting as output for your house... it's complicated... I'm not sure how that s*** goes but it can be done to a degree... it's complicated.
Nuclear batteries are just that - batteries. They are not re-chargeable in the same fashion as the battery in your phone where you direct an electron flow (current) at a suitable pressure (voltage), frequency and waveform to flow through your battery causing it's potential to grow again as individual electrons are trapped inside as potential energy... remember, even these kind's of batteries drain wheither you use them or not but they do drain faster when used because they have actual physical 'objects' (particles) that are being lost/consumed whereas it's just the heat your using from nuclear batteries. Sure you can argue your using up radioactive particles but thats literally true only true for betavoltaics. When it's just the heat it's about how long those particles will stay hot for you. Mmmm...
If there was a way to trap all the heat generated by a nuclear core and not loose it... you'd be laughing! Then you could use it at your leasure instead of having it waste away all the time weither you use the battery or not.
Interestingly enough there are real world applications where nuclear waste, or reclaimed/used nuclear waste is reprosessed into 'new-old' nuclear fuel/core material for nuclear batteries and other aplications where they literally f*** around with radioactive s***.
-------- EDIT: --------
Come to think of it, fallout 4 has FUSION cores, not nuclear. Huh.
Wenderer, I noticed that the light goes off as expected (which I love). However, it seems to come back the next time I enter the area (all I have to do is exit the cell and come back in). Is that fixable as well by any chance? Maybe I did something wrong on the install? Although if the latter I would think it wouldn't work the first time.
Ahh, I thought this fixed the wasteland workshop's fusion generator's misplaced light - the green light is way off from the location of the inserted fusion core
This is great I had made a comment when the game first came out, that Bethesda had wasted a fun way to play a stealth character, in that I expected, when I took the fusion core out of a big industrial generator like that, that the power to the entire building would go off.
No such luck, which makes me wonder just WHAT is the use of those generators then, because they generate power for absolutely NOTHING, as the lights, computer terminals, turrets etc seem to just grab power from the air.
I realize the generators are just typical under-thought Bethesda ways to get Fusion cores, but if they could've made the generators actually POWER the building they were in, the gameplay would be so much more fun.
Hopefully when the GECK comes out modders will address that.
Until then, thanks for fixing the "light coming back on because it's apparently powered by an INVISIBLE generator somewhere else" annoyance.
Hope to see more when the actual modding tools come out.
@legobrick100actually this take not much scripting. But it will take LOT of monkey work - link every light source and turret NPC to this script, and for this i need to see what light sources present in game, and which turret wired (some turrets looks like autonom), means CK/GECK is needed.
44 comments
https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/4426-mods-made-obsolete-by-unofficial-patches-fo4/
Light exposure can affect stealth.
Sorry for wondering something not about this mod but it make me curious.
And how can a core that small power a whole building for more than 200 years and still full, but when using with power armor it run out of power so fast?
TH: Hey guy, we will put RPG genre to the new level and make from it AAA shooter! And as prof of concept we'll give player full suit of power armor in first ten minuts of gameplay!
CM1: full suit?!
TH: even more, we'll give minigun, and dethclaw, and raiders, and laser rifle, and hell of ammo! Hell year, it will be game of the year!
CM2: but isn't it a little bit over powered start!
TH: Hmmm, maybe you right, then will nerf it in some way... batteries! We'll make PA run on batteries!
CM1: maybe fussion core?
TH: also good.
CM3: and what is it core exactly, and how player will get it?
TH: Who cares, it's POWER ARMOR!!!!1111 Just put them in places. Where batteries culd be, in a stores...
CM1 fussion core, fusion... fusion... fusion generator...
TH: yeah, it will do it. That's it, let's code!
CM2: wow whait, and what will be with generator, does it have some other purpose? What will be with building that contain generator and its core ejected? And what...
TH: Who cares! Just do it, and modders will fix that!
Nonetheless, a fusion core is essentially a mini nuclear reactor, in canon.
@Wenderer If you want to think that way, I guess. In general you'll avoid a LOT of frustration if you accept newer stuff as canon. (Because chances are, LITERALLY every bit of Fallout content we get from here-on-out will be based on, and therefore most compatible with, the newer canon.) Even same-companies sometimes revise old canon to bring it 'up to snuff' with everything else.
Though for many things, there are canonical ways of combining BOTH old and new canon; just because the company doesn't blatantly state the canonical combination, it can be left to interpretation.
What would be smart would be if instead of this fusion core crap it was the same "200 year life" reactor except by now many of these units are failing because the plutonium or whatever is in the reactor is no longer reactive. Despite them being scattered and abandoned all over the wasteland, they are useless until you either complete a quest or randomly discover spare plutonium or a spare power unit. Would have worked with their existing frame system except an extra piece that attaches to frame that is a power unit. That or you have to insert a rare element into the power armor frame to reactivate the fusion process (I dont know much about nuclear energy.) Action point sprinting and power attacks can still be a thing possibly via some sort of capacitors because the fusion reactor is not designed for high energy output but rather longer service life (200 years.)
Im a freaking genius. Also I love this game to death but REALLY Bethesda? We couldnt have made something cool, new and exciting while also maintaining the existing story? T-45a is the only power armor run on fusion cells as far as I remember from Fallout lore, everything else was fusion reactor. I mean if all power armor DID run on fusion cores why the hell would the brotherhood waste all their cores with gatling guns rather than saving them for their armor? Just too many inconsistencies. Like a child wrote the story. True immersion in the story and atmosphere is what hooks people to this game, why be so careless about the changes??
Marketing and Management have WAY to much influence in these types of things as a company grows today. They do need to have SOME influence because the bottom line is that it's a company. As an investor or shareholder, I could care less about canon. I want a return on my investment. Where you can accomplish both, then great. I totally get that. If the company doesn't make enough money, then it will get folded into another company you probably like less or it will just wither and die. Nature of the times (and I'm speaking from personal experience - been through many acquisitions).
So, I understand intimately that these discussions are actually needed and the teams have to come to a compromise sometimes because, well, we gamers are just fickle people. We really are (as a group that is). But, even considering that, I think we've reached a point where there isn't compromise anymore, which is what I do have a concern with. Developers are just told "hey, this is what marketing/management wants - do it". Canon or no canon - that's just bad business practice, but becoming more and more of an issue for these companies as they continue to grow. We as gamers unfortunately sometimes intentionally or unintentionally blame the developers, but in reality many of the developers are just trying to feed their families, and probably end up going home each day griping about how idiotic their company is.
Oh well... I just laugh at it now. So, Wenderer's original response was both amusing and probably closer to the truth than we realize... LOL
Sorry for wondering something not about this mod but it make me curious.
And how can a core that small power a whole building for more than 200 years and still full, but when using with power armor it run out of power so fast? "
Who says some cores been running in some generator for 200+ yrs? Somebody 'could have' JUST put in a new/old one 'not 5 minutes ago' from when the sole survivor 'walks in' on it. Granted that Bethesda could indeed have added lots more variations on the charge the found cores have. Having most of them at 100 is a bit weird since real life nuclear batteries drain weither you use them or not.
I can easily see how a PWR Armor could use as much power as an entire house and faster. Not really anything strange there for me. If we had PWR sources that small AND safe we'd have PWR Armos like in Iron Man and FO w/ all the laser weapons, no kidding! We'd still need new materials (currently unrealized/non-existing) for the plasma weapons.
The size thing doesn't really say anything at least when compared to real world nuclear batteries (RTG's, for example) which can be smaller than your microwave. The ones they had in the 70's could give at least +/-1000kW of power for DECADES, non-stop with just a small plutonium core. Actually the 70's Voyager spacecraft have these RTG's and they STILL have some juice left or my info could be outdated a little and they have just run out of juice recently.
They actually loose some power output at some point as they start to slowly cool down emitting gasses and thus increase casing pressure, unlike the Fallout ones which don't change in output at all but simply just die when they're out. However, their 'charge' (wrong term for a nuclear battery, I think) doesn't run out faster/slower the more PWR you use because the rate of radioactive decay and heat generated from it stays the friggin' same for as long as there's any decaying left to be done for that ammount of core material. I'm not sure if that rate is known to sometimes change/fluctuate but I don't think it does that in any significant way. So you'd simply 'blackout' when drawing too much PWR without actually draining the thing any faster. Therefore the Fallout faster/slower core draining system is total horsecrap.
I don't really understand why they blow up in-game because I don't think they really blow up like that in real life. There's nothing inside them that would make them blow up like in FO but they do accumulate pressure inside as they age so they may rupture violently releasing horrible, smoldering hot radioactive crap in your face.
Their heat is converted into electricity w/ thermal couples. In a case of a hypothetical PWR Armor, you could have the thermal coupling inside the PWR Armor thus making the 'nuclear battery' even smaller. Then it would essentailly be just a covered up chunk of something extremely radioactive that stays 'mega hot' for a long time weither you use it or don't.... sooo that then means how/why it will actually 'run out' at a decay rate that the used material has weither you use it or don't!"!!! Holy smokes.
Besides... it's known that nuclear detonations cause an electro magnetic pulse that can be devastating to active electrical applience. I'm not sure if 'one blast' will destroy 'all devices' turned on but, to me, it clearly indicates that the working machines and things we find were turned off when the bombs fell and/or repaired over time. It's pretty likely since there were several bombs after all so the impact of the EMP would have been significant, I'd imagine.
Hummm...
Oh yeah and thanks for this, great mod/fix.
Endorsed.
--------
EDIT:
--------
Come to think of it, fallout has FUSION cores, not nuclear. Huh.
---------
H3xx,
Nice try but THAT is not how nuclear batteries work in the real world.
The cores would be either empty or drained somewhat even if the generators were off or even if the core was just sitting on a table. Depends on the core material and ammount (radioactive decay/half-life) THAT is how they actually work for real. Using them does not make them drain any faster! The ONLY way they could be "exceedingly efficient" is to have better thermal coupling and insulation to be able to convert as much of their heat as possible into electricity. The pressure inside could possibly be converted as well but that might be too tricky as I think it would have to oscillate somehow to be any good. As far as these matters go, they waste a lot of heat, btw, I think it has something to do with pressure built up inside the core casing. Another way to increase efficiency would be using betavoltaics in addition to thermal coupling where your core material would actually emit beta particles (beta radiation) which can be converted/used for current. I seem to have forgotten how that actually works but anyway... that way you'd have an additional source of electricity in addition to just the heat conversion.
Mind you thats not fantasy made up game lore but real life!
As for the charging action you described:
Sorry, again, nice try but thats not very practicle to a point where it probably wouldn't be possible or useful unless it had been charging for 200yrs total... which is kind of interesting since it actually would have had time to charge for 200 yrs total...!
Your "feedback" chargers would have to emit radiation and direct it to the core material irradiating it which would heat it up some. That would be the only way I can imagine to try to 'recharge' a nuclear battery core... That's just... not gonna happen when your using it in a generator. Sorry. Think of what your using to do that - is taken away from what your getting as output for your house... it's complicated... I'm not sure how that s*** goes but it can be done to a degree... it's complicated.
Nuclear batteries are just that - batteries. They are not re-chargeable in the same fashion as the battery in your phone where you direct an electron flow (current) at a suitable pressure (voltage), frequency and waveform to flow through your battery causing it's potential to grow again as individual electrons are trapped inside as potential energy... remember, even these kind's of batteries drain wheither you use them or not but they do drain faster when used because they have actual physical 'objects' (particles) that are being lost/consumed whereas it's just the heat your using from nuclear batteries. Sure you can argue your using up radioactive particles but thats literally true only true for betavoltaics. When it's just the heat it's about how long those particles will stay hot for you. Mmmm...
If there was a way to trap all the heat generated by a nuclear core and not loose it... you'd be laughing! Then you could use it at your leasure instead of having it waste away all the time weither you use the battery or not.
Interestingly enough there are real world applications where nuclear waste, or reclaimed/used nuclear waste is reprosessed into 'new-old' nuclear fuel/core material for nuclear batteries and other aplications where they literally f*** around with radioactive s***.
--------
EDIT:
--------
Come to think of it, fallout 4 has FUSION cores, not nuclear. Huh.
I install all my mods manually, and this mod is different. I don't know what to do with the scripts folder.
I had made a comment when the game first came out, that Bethesda had wasted a fun way to play a stealth character, in that I expected, when I took the fusion core out of a big industrial generator like that, that the power to the entire building would go off.
No such luck, which makes me wonder just WHAT is the use of those generators then, because they generate power for absolutely NOTHING, as the lights, computer terminals, turrets etc seem to just grab power from the air.
I realize the generators are just typical under-thought Bethesda ways to get Fusion cores, but if they could've made the generators actually POWER the building they were in, the gameplay would be so much more fun.
Hopefully when the GECK comes out modders will address that.
Until then, thanks for fixing the "light coming back on because it's apparently powered by an INVISIBLE generator somewhere else" annoyance.
Hope to see more when the actual modding tools come out.
This way you have a good reason to use Pipboylight,kinda like in the quarry at Dunwich Borers.
But I'm starting to think Bethy seems to be afraid of the dark scenerios.
Keep up the good work!