All I needed was to start a new game, and take a quick trip to the Super Duper Mart, with a load of realism and difficulty mods, to know that this was exactly what I was looking for lol. I always feel like gangs of Raiders should be bigger and more scary and overwhelming, like how all the NPCs make them sound when they're scared talking about them. This was awesome lol I had to reload like 3 times to not get wrecked.
I down loaded this a while ago and forgot that I had it. So far so good. I've gotten no errors so far. Hope you keep adding even more fort upgrades.
Also.. there's an abandoned Raider fort right across from the Temple of the Union that would make a perfect add-on for this mod. I already added my own Raiders in my game.
Well, I've removed this and the Raider Forts upgraded, and the Big Town guards mod. I went to the Bethesda Ruins and was pleased. 6 raiders (one dead beside a dead deathclaw) at the edge of town. Then I went further in and there's lots of them. So I sneak around back (where the metro is) and see about 20 on one road plus several in overlooking buildings. There was no way to assault the place without a small army. With that many inhabitants this was a full fledged [raider] town. The merchants would be stopping in to trade. Heck, it has more people than any of the vanilla towns.
Fortunately I had a save close before I entered the cell for the first time so it went well. (Funny story: when the mod was installed the random encounter by the Red Racer was wastelanders that fought the forward guards of the raiders and then I'd jump in and help, when I went vanilla it was the raider initiation random encounter that occurred. Is that classic or what?) When I went through the ruins without this mod I still felt they were well defended (no way to sneak in past the guards without a stealth field and guards backed each other up at all the entrances) as well as well placed. But it was no longer impossible, I just had to be careful.
I think there are several things that could have been done to improve the area. The sniper on the bridge left his post to wander the grounds. If both doors had been very easy locks he'd have been stuck in place, making him more effective (a second sniper added in would have helped to, if both had the night person perk they would have been even better against sneakers like me, too). I liked what looked to me like a forward post on the west end of the area, with 5-6 raiders. It made sense (since now they could see what's coming rather than being located back within the ruins) but was also manageable since that fight didn't cause the rest of the defenders to react (and remember, I have a mod to improve reactions). The extra walls were excessive. The layout is already well done for defense and I just don't see raiders as that motivated and hard working. Unless there were a few slaves added the player could rescue? One or two more in the overwatch building with hunting rifles wouldn't be bad, but you'd have to have a way to keep them up there for them to be effective.
Anyway, I thought your mods did excellent work on the area setting but NPC control needed work. I'd rather see better AI than a bunch more enemies. As it was I leveled from 11 to 12 in the BR but with your mod I have no doubt I'd have hit 13.
acelogan: Interesting observation. I finally got through Springvale School by sniping the raiders and leading them on a merry chase (having the sprint mod helped). They didn't want to follow beyond the fenceline at the red rocket (AI seemed to get confused here, they advanced some but with trouble--that could also be because another mod stuck a shack there amid the rocks and I jumped on its roof, if the navmesh isn't set up for that it could have confused the AI as they tried to chase me, giving me an advantage that other people wouldn't have only being on the rocks; however I've done the same last time I took the school on and was chased all the way to Megaton after I fled my rooftop sniping post) so I was able to snipe them all there (maybe snipe is unfair, we had a long range gun fight where I won and I picked off their melee dudes as the melee guys had the AI trouble I mentioned). Then I went down and cleaned up. Then went through the school itself. If that hadn't worked my plan was landmines along my flee route so the raiders would hit those. Of course I also use the mod that keeps me from sniping from a long ways with no one else reacting to their dead buddies (otherwise that would have been a good strategy). I was level 8 with the ladykiller and toughness perks when I entered, hit level 9 while there, and something made lots more ants than usual (this mod?) so I got level to 10 just as I killed the last one (level 9 perk was entomologist which I'd wanted since level 5 but lacked the science then so instead took swift learner at 5, none of my other perks as I went through affected combat--though level 10 got me finesse).
debearsbro232: An issue I had in the school itself (beyond about 8 raiders hitting me at once at one entrance) is that the new NPC (Black***) wasn't hostile. So I got in his face with my pistol point blank and then VATSed him. He survived the many shots but turned coward as well as hostile and I chased him and gunned him down as he fled. This sounds similar to another reported issue though I think that was with your Raider Forts Upgraded mod. Perhaps the same problem in both places?
You know, with Vanilla Raider Forts disabled, but keeping Raider Forts Upgraded active, the Springdale School mob was reduced. I'm thinking the two combined are placing two separate sets of mob spawns in the same area.
@anotherone40: I completely agree with everything you've said. I use both this and the author's other mod Raider Forts Upgraded - and what you said was basically my reaction and observation about them as well; they place far too many raiders in some areas, and not enough in others. Springvale is so completely overwhelmed that I watched a small BoS patrol get obliterated WHILE the raiders were also attacking Megaton Scavengers. The reasoning for this imbalance is a little mystifying. Why are there so darn many Raiders at Springdale High? It's one of the earliest areas the player will encounter, and yet it's so over run with enemies I even have trouble with it at lvl 7 and four follower companions fighting with me. Perhaps a menu option - like FWE or MMM has - to set the spawn rate would be nice for this mod? I don't think MMM or FWE effects the number of raiders appearing, only how effective they are (i.e. health, damage, etc.).
I really want to like these mods, and use them for adding a little more difficulty and Post-apocalyptic Wasteland immersion - however, as it stands, I just can't. Maybe at some point I'll try checking it in GECK, and maybe tweak it to set the spawn numbers lower. But for now, I'm just deactivating this and the other Raider Forts mod
Although, if these issues are addressed, I'll gladly endorse this mod. ">
So that my previous comment doesn't sound too negative here's another suggestion. the raiders on the bridge near the Vault 101 entrance are just there. Now with the cut content mods there's a bus with a pure water fountain which is cool but really I think there should be more (or something for those that choose not to use that mod). A couple ammo boxes and 2-3 supply boxes plus a raider boss added to the end of the overpass would be cool. There's already some shelter looking things set there, they just happen to be empty shells so far. A good place to put the supplies and boss. Now there's a reason to wipe the place beyond the pure joy of raider slaughter.
Also this leaves one "easy" raider site near the player's start since Super-Duper Mart and the school are now both so powerful. Players need something to gain experience with. The raider boss could have some better armor (leather, metal?) and a decent weapon the player will value (a standard sledgehammer, a ripper?) that makes him harder but also motivates the player to take him down. If he's tough enough but limited to melee the player will also have to learn tactics (cripple the leg!) early on in their careers in order to win.
31 comments
I always feel like gangs of Raiders should be bigger and more scary and overwhelming, like how all the NPCs make them sound when they're scared talking about them.
This was awesome lol I had to reload like 3 times to not get wrecked.
Also.. there's an abandoned Raider fort right across from the Temple of the Union that would make a perfect add-on for this mod. I already added my own Raiders in my game.
Fortunately I had a save close before I entered the cell for the first time so it went well. (Funny story: when the mod was installed the random encounter by the Red Racer was wastelanders that fought the forward guards of the raiders and then I'd jump in and help, when I went vanilla it was the raider initiation random encounter that occurred. Is that classic or what?) When I went through the ruins without this mod I still felt they were well defended (no way to sneak in past the guards without a stealth field and guards backed each other up at all the entrances) as well as well placed. But it was no longer impossible, I just had to be careful.
I think there are several things that could have been done to improve the area. The sniper on the bridge left his post to wander the grounds. If both doors had been very easy locks he'd have been stuck in place, making him more effective (a second sniper added in would have helped to, if both had the night person perk they would have been even better against sneakers like me, too). I liked what looked to me like a forward post on the west end of the area, with 5-6 raiders. It made sense (since now they could see what's coming rather than being located back within the ruins) but was also manageable since that fight didn't cause the rest of the defenders to react (and remember, I have a mod to improve reactions). The extra walls were excessive. The layout is already well done for defense and I just don't see raiders as that motivated and hard working. Unless there were a few slaves added the player could rescue? One or two more in the overwatch building with hunting rifles wouldn't be bad, but you'd have to have a way to keep them up there for them to be effective.
Anyway, I thought your mods did excellent work on the area setting but NPC control needed work. I'd rather see better AI than a bunch more enemies. As it was I leveled from 11 to 12 in the BR but with your mod I have no doubt I'd have hit 13.
debearsbro232:
An issue I had in the school itself (beyond about 8 raiders hitting me at once at one entrance) is that the new NPC (Black***) wasn't hostile. So I got in his face with my pistol point blank and then VATSed him. He survived the many shots but turned coward as well as hostile and I chased him and gunned him down as he fled. This sounds similar to another reported issue though I think that was with your Raider Forts Upgraded mod. Perhaps the same problem in both places?
The reasoning for this imbalance is a little mystifying. Why are there so darn many Raiders at Springdale High? It's one of the earliest areas the player will encounter, and yet it's so over run with enemies I even have trouble with it at lvl 7 and four follower companions fighting with me.
Perhaps a menu option - like FWE or MMM has - to set the spawn rate would be nice for this mod?
I don't think MMM or FWE effects the number of raiders appearing, only how effective they are (i.e. health, damage, etc.).
I really want to like these mods, and use them for adding a little more difficulty and Post-apocalyptic Wasteland immersion - however, as it stands, I just can't.
Maybe at some point I'll try checking it in GECK, and maybe tweak it to set the spawn numbers lower.
But for now, I'm just deactivating this and the other Raider Forts mod
Although, if these issues are addressed, I'll gladly endorse this mod.
Also this leaves one "easy" raider site near the player's start since Super-Duper Mart and the school are now both so powerful. Players need something to gain experience with. The raider boss could have some better armor (leather, metal?) and a decent weapon the player will value (a standard sledgehammer, a ripper?) that makes him harder but also motivates the player to take him down. If he's tough enough but limited to melee the player will also have to learn tactics (cripple the leg!) early on in their careers in order to win.