1- How does this mod affect the perk "silent running"? Does it become useless?
2- How does it affects stealth fields? I mean stealth boys are both rare and valuable so if they become worthless it's better to sell them, the chinese stealth armor too has that effect and "the shadow" perk added by the UPP mod.
I've come up with this problem as well and when testing Stealth I found out 2 things that made me very unhappy with the system. 1) the Silent Running perk doesn't work as advertised, when sneaking it removes sound detection for the player from the game entirely. 2) Stealth field intensity is bulls***. Even 1% is the same as 100%.
To fix this I learned how to script and got to a custom made solution I'd like to share with you guys. To fix the Silent Running perk you just need to adjust the SneakRunningMult to 1, it will then be the same as sneak walking. In my version of the perk (since this would make it far less effective than it used to be), I added a boost of 41% to the speed multiplier when sneaking that when counteracted by the global sneak speed multiplier penalty would make the player's speed when sneaking improve to 80% of base.
The 2nd problem was far more complex. I would have to effectively fix the game's camouflage system itself.
The solution is replacing the Camouflage effect with a change to the fSneakLightMult setting, which is a multiplier for sight based detection. The original value is at 1.4. To get a strong Stelath Field like the Stealth Boy to work only up to a distance of about 20ft you just need to change this variable to 0.4. Be careful though because any changes beyond that number will be very noticeable, so if you want to get closer 0.3 is already invisibility and 0.5 is about 100 yards sight detection or more. Weak fields like the Stealth Suit can be effectively nerfed in this way to make them continue to function but not be overpowered.
The nicest thing about these settings is that it is now possible to make Camouflaged Gear like the ones added by other mods actually help in making the player less visible! I am certainly not touching that with a 10ft pole but whover wants to do it, all it takes is to make them lower the fSneakLightMult and tie this effect to specific locations, so artic cammo only works in artic areas, Desert Cammo in wasteland Areas, Urban Cammo in urban areas, Dark Cammo in dark areas, etc. In fact dark Apparel in general should have bonuses in darkness, so it is even possible to set a condition to make them function at night. But I digress...
Unfortunately there is a conundrum when it comes to Stealth Boys and moving around without sneaking. The fSneakLightMult setting does not work if the player isn't sneaking. Which means that when the player is not sneaking the Stealth Boy Field will not provide any advantages at all.
Because of this, and because FWE already has a system to make Stealth boys more balanced, I personally decided to let them operate as they used to. I only changed the Dialogue to make it clear that the field provides 100% invisibility.
But if there is a solution to this problem other than forcing sneaking to get Stealthboys to function. The answer would be to drastically increase the Distance Attenuation variable while the Stealthboy is on. This will make enemies both Blind AND Deaf though, so to make up for it, it is also necessary to increase the Boot Weight variable in order to make sound detection be on the same level as when the Stealth Boy is not operational. Be mindful though that neither of these changes are necessary when the character is Sneaking.
The reason I decided to mess with stealth fields is because I play Fallout 3 with the Ultimate Perk Pack mod which has a Perk called The Shadow at level 20 which adds a "25% field" when the player is sneaking. Once I learned about the Silent Running perk being rubbish I tested The Shadow and learned that it was also broken. To fix it I was faced with the option of disregarding it entirely or using another mod. I found the Stealth FIeld Perk mod that adds some stealth perks that are even more balanced than The Shadow, since they drain AP to provide the effect, but they still had the problem of relying on the base Camouflage system which is broken to begin with. So I decided to make my own Stealth mod and will post it on the nexus in case anyone wants to try them out.
I have had a problem with my port to NV which was caused by Project Nevada overriding globals through scripts, so this could be a similiar problem here.
Your load order would be very helpful to sort out this problem.
this is broken, unless its meant to be possible to sneak past anything anytime no matter the line of sight. even when i attacked in sneak mode they could not find me even though i was right in front of them. i could with little chance be another mod that interferes with this one, but its unlikely since dont believe i have any other mod that mods that sneak system or alike. but the other reviews are good so its prob just me it wont work with.
Wow I want to try this. I just hope it doesn't cause any problems with FWE. FWE has its own stealth settings but I feel they're not realistic enough. You can still get detected in FWE even if they're not looking at your general direction. You might be on a different floor in the same building in fact and they'd still know you were there. I currently have a mid-level Sneak of about 50 or so.
- edit: Tried it just now and it seems to be working immediately. I loaded it after FWE. I was sneaking around in very light clothing just behind an Enclave Soldier, only about 10-15 feet away, and he only noticed me when he turned around to complete his patrol. I reloaded that save and was able to get within 5 feet before I sneak attacked him. That kind of thing would've been impossible at my 50-ish Sneak skill before.
An exceptional job well done on this mod, retakrew7. The best Stealth mod I have ever downloaded and it definitely comes in handy when using FO3 Combat Realism (makes the game extremely challenging, hence the name). I have already endorsed.
13 comments
1- How does this mod affect the perk "silent running"? Does it become useless?
2- How does it affects stealth fields? I mean stealth boys are both rare and valuable so if they become worthless it's better to sell them, the chinese stealth armor too has that effect and "the shadow" perk added by the UPP mod.
To fix this I learned how to script and got to a custom made solution I'd like to share with you guys. To fix the Silent Running perk you just need to adjust the SneakRunningMult to 1, it will then be the same as sneak walking. In my version of the perk (since this would make it far less effective than it used to be), I added a boost of 41% to the speed multiplier when sneaking that when counteracted by the global sneak speed multiplier penalty would make the player's speed when sneaking improve to 80% of base.
The 2nd problem was far more complex. I would have to effectively fix the game's camouflage system itself.
The solution is replacing the Camouflage effect with a change to the fSneakLightMult setting, which is a multiplier for sight based detection. The original value is at 1.4. To get a strong Stelath Field like the Stealth Boy to work only up to a distance of about 20ft you just need to change this variable to 0.4. Be careful though because any changes beyond that number will be very noticeable, so if you want to get closer 0.3 is already invisibility and 0.5 is about 100 yards sight detection or more. Weak fields like the Stealth Suit can be effectively nerfed in this way to make them continue to function but not be overpowered.
The nicest thing about these settings is that it is now possible to make Camouflaged Gear like the ones added by other mods actually help in making the player less visible! I am certainly not touching that with a 10ft pole but whover wants to do it, all it takes is to make them lower the fSneakLightMult and tie this effect to specific locations, so artic cammo only works in artic areas, Desert Cammo in wasteland Areas, Urban Cammo in urban areas, Dark Cammo in dark areas, etc. In fact dark Apparel in general should have bonuses in darkness, so it is even possible to set a condition to make them function at night. But I digress...
Unfortunately there is a conundrum when it comes to Stealth Boys and moving around without sneaking. The fSneakLightMult setting does not work if the player isn't sneaking. Which means that when the player is not sneaking the Stealth Boy Field will not provide any advantages at all.
Because of this, and because FWE already has a system to make Stealth boys more balanced, I personally decided to let them operate as they used to. I only changed the Dialogue to make it clear that the field provides 100% invisibility.
But if there is a solution to this problem other than forcing sneaking to get Stealthboys to function. The answer would be to drastically increase the Distance Attenuation variable while the Stealthboy is on. This will make enemies both Blind AND Deaf though, so to make up for it, it is also necessary to increase the Boot Weight variable in order to make sound detection be on the same level as when the Stealth Boy is not operational. Be mindful though that neither of these changes are necessary when the character is Sneaking.
The reason I decided to mess with stealth fields is because I play Fallout 3 with the Ultimate Perk Pack mod which has a Perk called The Shadow at level 20 which adds a "25% field" when the player is sneaking. Once I learned about the Silent Running perk being rubbish I tested The Shadow and learned that it was also broken. To fix it I was faced with the option of disregarding it entirely or using another mod. I found the Stealth FIeld Perk mod that adds some stealth perks that are even more balanced than The Shadow, since they drain AP to provide the effect, but they still had the problem of relying on the base Camouflage system which is broken to begin with. So I decided to make my own Stealth mod and will post it on the nexus in case anyone wants to try them out.
1. It does not become useless, it should enable you to approach enemies from behind a lot easier.
2. My mod actually makes them more valuable, because the line-of-sight is way more important now, and if you are invisible ... well you are invisible.
This mod should tweak that.
something like:
in daytime, its easy to get descovered, but in night time, its hard to get caught.
I have had a problem with my port to NV which was caused by Project Nevada overriding globals through scripts, so this could be a similiar problem here.
Your load order would be very helpful to sort out this problem.
even when i attacked in sneak mode they could not find me even though i was right in front of them.
i could with little chance be another mod that interferes with this one, but its unlikely since dont believe i have any other mod that mods that sneak system or alike. but the other reviews are good so its prob just me it wont work with.
- edit: Tried it just now and it seems to be working immediately. I loaded it after FWE. I was sneaking around in very light clothing just behind an Enclave Soldier, only about 10-15 feet away, and he only noticed me when he turned around to complete his patrol. I reloaded that save and was able to get within 5 feet before I sneak attacked him. That kind of thing would've been impossible at my 50-ish Sneak skill before.
Thank you very much!
Edit: Ported to NV