Nevermind, its just not my thing. Still probably the best and cleanist Canterbury mod out there but I don't like the clone NPCs myself or the the choice of interiors which just seem like filler not useful in any way. CC always needed an inn or motel imho, but no one out there seems to agree. I DON'T think it needs ANOTHER DINER or a bank you may visit once for novelty, thats for sure. Endorsed purely for actually making a clean location mod for Canterbury though it worked well for me, just wasn't what I was looking for.
Curious to see so many conflicting comments about this mod. Maybe to do with if folk use UUF3P or not? Or perhaps a version of it that had some change that's since been unchanged (which has occured sometimes). Can't confirm either way as I don't use CCI - well, not most of it..
...for I'm just here to let folk know if they have problems with CCI there is a "Cafe Only" version of it at the files page of Canterbury Estates Some Ideas. I no longer use CE Some Ideas either (had a few issues, I forget what) but it's author made a CCI Cafe Only edit as they liked CCI but its cafe was the only part compatible with CE Some Ideas. But the Cafe Only esp is standalone, so you don't need CCI or CE Some Ideas!
Memory fails (it was 2yrs ago), but it's possible if you just use the cafe edit you'll see two wood boards still barring the doorway outside. If so, you can either ignore it (and still find part of the door to click on) or go into console mode and delete them. Always make a save before.
This is a great mod and I endorse, thanks ripple! I use this mod in Windows 11 and installed it with Vortex. Played around for a while without a single CTD, I love the guitar player, reminds me of Jose Feliciano. Use FO3Edit to find out if another mod is interfering.
I'm not having any issues with this mod, beyond the occasional ugly-ass NPC added. I tried to replicate every issue Cephaler and Friends stated in their comments via xEdit, GECK and in game, but this mod passed with flying colors.
As to Steele74's comment below, I did flag this esp as an ESM which may be why I haven't experienced worldspace issues.
Let me say it again for the potato-chans: I did not have any problems with this mod. Could not CTD, could not ruin a save regardless of what cell I saved in, could not fall through the ground no matter how many times I roamed the town. No issues. Nada.
Mod is good. Some of the interiors (ie Cuppa Joe 2nd/3rd floor) are a little dull and uninspired.
Regardless, I'm running this as a ESM which may imply a navmeshed esp is just a really bad idea.
..and just to go the one step further, I forwarded any changes made by UF3P.
There's definitely something very wrong with it. When it's installed and active, chaos ensues. Whilst I don't have CTDs that much, they are certainly more common in this area. The landscape under Dominic D'Ellesandro's house randomly vanishes leaving a huge void for NPCs to fall into. The NPCs added by this mod do not adhere to their intended patrol paths and schedules. In town they can be found up on the same author's guard towers, or worse, occasionally at Springvale down by the riverbank, and sometimes near the Corvega factory. You can be slap bang in the middle of town and just see blurry LOD meshes.
I do like what it adds compared to relative paucity of CC in the base game; the bank, the cafe and the warehouse, even though you can't actually use the bank or the warehouse for much. It would be more acceptable if the NPCs at least did what they were supposed to do, so you got the impression of a "real" community with active commercial and residential life. They did seem to behave properly at first then just stopped, and either stayed inside, gathered around their respective doors unable to enter, or wandered stupidly around the Wasteland to their deaths.
I kept it installed for a long time because at least it made CC look more inhabited, but the huge hole that randomly appears proved too much. Uninstalled and unendorsed, more trouble than it's worth. I haven't got the time or inclination to properly figure out what's wrong with it and I doubt that the author is ever going to resolve it. A shame, because if it ever was to be fixed it would be back in my load order like a shot. This was conceptually my favourite of the several existing CC overhauls, it didn't add too much clutter and the NPC population seemed about right.
This mod is typical of the era that it came out. Garbage. Most people didn't really have the "know how", nor the tools to mod properly. They also couldn't be bothered with fixing any issues, as they obviously were too lazy, and/or had simply moved on. I find this last point to be prevalent even to this day.
That being said... i steer clear of mods that alter the master file NavMesh edits. Most people that alter them, don't know enough about what they are doing, and can make the entire wasteland unstable. The exception in my load order being the great remake of DCStreets mod, by RoyBatty. I've also read that mods that do alter the master file NavMeshes, should be created using the ESM format. DCStreets is created this way... this mod is not. Also, mods that add "their own" NavMeshes to interiors, like Another Interior mod. I'll use them. That's it though. I absolutely use no mods that add exteriors to the game as well. Not worth the trouble that they create. I've found over the years, that less is better when it comes to modding this game.
Also, the way you clean your mods is really important. I'll refer you to GamerPoets, My Way series for help in that area.
This is an old post, but am glad to give the advice.
I agree with every point you've made. I'd hoped, in retrospect vainly, that because this particular didn't on the face of it appear to add too much to CC and what it did add were mostly interior spaces and fewer npcs than the majority of other CC expansions, it might work out better than other exterior overhauls that directly impact the Wasteland worldspace. It gave me some wry amusement that it did exactly the opposite; it actually turned out to be one of the worst I've tried, spectacularly so, and I do try to be reasonably selective. I do use the mods and guides you mentioned, but there's only so far I'm prepared to go to make someone else's work function acceptably. If that's too much effort I usually end up making my own, which I actually quite enjoy when I have the time, which is rare.
I gave Canterbury Estates (the improved one) a whirl, it's not great but it's more stable than this. It's an .esm so it had a better chance of working, and at least it didn't crash or cause too much pandemonium. But again the navmesh isn't right, and the npcs behave stupidly. All I wanted was a few more buildings to be opened up. Lord help me if I ever have to end up using the dismal Republic of Dave as a bolthole in the north-east of the map. I think I'll just stick with unmodded CC for now unless and until I ever get round to doing something with it for myself.
You are correct that it is typical of its time. For a while now I've been checking the last updated date, generally if they haven't been updated in the last few years I steer clear, especially if they've hardly been touched since first being uploaded. This was an exception, and it didn't work out for me. Lesson learned. Despite that caveat, I wouldn't go quite so far as to forever avoid mods that add exteriors to primary worldspace, although by and large it's a good maxim to adhere to. If they're tucked away in far away places that avoid busy spots, and they've been well-made by competent and diligent authors who provided extended support, they're usually okay. I admit that's fairly rare and only a relatively small handful of names stand out in that regard.
After becoming more savvy using FO3Edit to analyse some of the wonky edits that mod authors inject into their esp files, I now know why this mod can create so many critical conflicts with other major mods. It's becuase this mod uses world space edits carried over from the Unofficial FO3 Patch.
Specifically, it's got a flag in it pointing to a dds file to place shadows under trees. Simply remove said world space edit in this mod using FO3Edit, if you're not using said patch. This is like the third mod that I've found that has stupid patch edits in it... ruining the stability of my load order. It's simply irritating to me, that some mod authors make the assumption that everyone uses that patch, like it's official, or something.
Well, it's been awhile... but if you open up the mod file in FO3Edit, then open up the world space folder at the bottom of the folder tree ... you'll find the flag for it under there. Just right click on it, select edit and then hit your back space key to remove said edit. When you close FO3Edit, it should save the changes and you're done. This edit serves absolutely no purpose, if you're not using that patch. In fact all it will do, is make you fall through the ground in certain areas and cause your game to crash and stutter. Especially if it's in conflict with other mods. Any mod that uses world space edits. IE: weather mods, container mods, exterior mods, etc. For example: DC Interiors, Dynamic Weather.
You're a mod author... should be fairly simple for you.
This edit is probably why BOSS places it in your load order where it does. I can't find any other reason. Which is why I personally use FO3edit to determine load order, instead of some out of date tool.
So far no problems at all. The new places look really interesting, and I wasn't expecting the guitar solo so the guy killed me the first time I entered xD (not literally, of course) really made me smile, thanks for that. Endorsed.
100 comments
...for I'm just here to let folk know if they have problems with CCI there is a "Cafe Only" version of it at the files page of Canterbury Estates Some Ideas. I no longer use CE Some Ideas either (had a few issues, I forget what) but it's author made a CCI Cafe Only edit as they liked CCI but its cafe was the only part compatible with CE Some Ideas. But the Cafe Only esp is standalone, so you don't need CCI or CE Some Ideas!
Memory fails (it was 2yrs ago), but it's possible if you just use the cafe edit you'll see two wood boards still barring the doorway outside. If so, you can either ignore it (and still find part of the door to click on) or go into console mode and delete them. Always make a save before.
As to Steele74's comment below, I did flag this esp as an ESM which may be why I haven't experienced worldspace issues.
Let me say it again for the potato-chans: I did not have any problems with this mod. Could not CTD, could not ruin a save regardless of what cell I saved in, could not fall through the ground no matter how many times I roamed the town. No issues. Nada.
Mod is good. Some of the interiors (ie Cuppa Joe 2nd/3rd floor) are a little dull and uninspired.
Regardless, I'm running this as a ESM which may imply a navmeshed esp is just a really bad idea.
..and just to go the one step further, I forwarded any changes made by UF3P.
-UnEndorsed-
I do like what it adds compared to relative paucity of CC in the base game; the bank, the cafe and the warehouse, even though you can't actually use the bank or the warehouse for much. It would be more acceptable if the NPCs at least did what they were supposed to do, so you got the impression of a "real" community with active commercial and residential life. They did seem to behave properly at first then just stopped, and either stayed inside, gathered around their respective doors unable to enter, or wandered stupidly around the Wasteland to their deaths.
I kept it installed for a long time because at least it made CC look more inhabited, but the huge hole that randomly appears proved too much. Uninstalled and unendorsed, more trouble than it's worth. I haven't got the time or inclination to properly figure out what's wrong with it and I doubt that the author is ever going to resolve it. A shame, because if it ever was to be fixed it would be back in my load order like a shot. This was conceptually my favourite of the several existing CC overhauls, it didn't add too much clutter and the NPC population seemed about right.
That being said... i steer clear of mods that alter the master file NavMesh edits. Most people that alter them, don't know enough about what they are doing, and can make the entire wasteland unstable. The exception in my load order being the great remake of DCStreets mod, by RoyBatty. I've also read that mods that do alter the master file NavMeshes, should be created using the ESM format. DCStreets is created this way... this mod is not. Also, mods that add "their own" NavMeshes to interiors, like Another Interior mod. I'll use them. That's it though. I absolutely use no mods that add exteriors to the game as well. Not worth the trouble that they create. I've found over the years, that less is better when it comes to modding this game.
Also, the way you clean your mods is really important. I'll refer you to GamerPoets, My Way series for help in that area.
This is an old post, but am glad to give the advice.
I gave Canterbury Estates (the improved one) a whirl, it's not great but it's more stable than this. It's an .esm so it had a better chance of working, and at least it didn't crash or cause too much pandemonium. But again the navmesh isn't right, and the npcs behave stupidly. All I wanted was a few more buildings to be opened up. Lord help me if I ever have to end up using the dismal Republic of Dave as a bolthole in the north-east of the map. I think I'll just stick with unmodded CC for now unless and until I ever get round to doing something with it for myself.
You are correct that it is typical of its time. For a while now I've been checking the last updated date, generally if they haven't been updated in the last few years I steer clear, especially if they've hardly been touched since first being uploaded. This was an exception, and it didn't work out for me. Lesson learned. Despite that caveat, I wouldn't go quite so far as to forever avoid mods that add exteriors to primary worldspace, although by and large it's a good maxim to adhere to. If they're tucked away in far away places that avoid busy spots, and they've been well-made by competent and diligent authors who provided extended support, they're usually okay. I admit that's fairly rare and only a relatively small handful of names stand out in that regard.
Specifically, it's got a flag in it pointing to a dds file to place shadows under trees. Simply remove said world space edit in this mod using FO3Edit, if you're not using said patch. This is like the third mod that I've found that has stupid patch edits in it... ruining the stability of my load order. It's simply irritating to me, that some mod authors make the assumption that everyone uses that patch, like it's official, or something.
Anyway, problem solved.
Where exactly do I find the "shadowundertrees" flag? I want to remove it as well.
You're a mod author... should be fairly simple for you.
This edit is probably why BOSS places it in your load order where it does. I can't find any other reason. Which is why I personally use FO3edit to determine load order, instead of some out of date tool.