Dark Souls

Donation Points are changing

  • Comment
We're changing how we reward mod authors in our community through our Donation Points system. DP earned from April 2024 onwards will be calculated using a new algorithm intended to distribute the pool of points more fairly to mod authors who make great content for the community. While we get the details ironed out, you won't see the usual reports on your wallet page at the end of each month for a little while. Don't worry though, the system isn't going anywhere and we're still putting the same amount into the DP pool each month, we're just tweaking things a bit. 


Why are we changing the system?

Our Donation Points system - introduced 6 years ago - uses a pool of money set aside by us each month (most recently ~$325,000) to reward mod authors for sharing their mods with the community. Authors earn Donation Points (DP) which they can exchange for free games, PayPal payments, donations to charity, and other rewards. This system currently uses unique downloads on mod pages to calculate the rewards and has remained unchanged since its inception.

In December 2023, we surveyed all active mod authors on the website to gather their opinions on the system (You might remember a slightly annoying full-page alert. Sorry about that!). Most of you said you were reasonably happy with the system but there were some key themes in what you didn't like about it which helped inform our decisions here. 

As we see it, the overall impact of the Donation Points system has been a huge net positive for the modding community - with thousands of authors sharing in our success at Nexus Mods, on top of any donations they get directly from their fans. 

It's not all blue skies and rainbows though. Over the years we've seen a steady culture change in the community which has seen many users alter how they release mods to maximise DP at the expense of the overall experience for the users of their content. While this might be good in the short term for the uploader, it's having a long-term detrimental effect on the community as a whole. Of the ~4,000 responses to our DP survey, this was by far the largest issue mod authors had with the system, and we agree. 

We've classified these behaviours into a few key problem areas:

  • Mod splitting - Breaking mods down into as many smaller parts as possible to post each part on a separate mod page where there is almost no reason to do so other than to maximise DP. 
  • Reposting updates - Creating a new mod page for each major (or minor) update to a mod. We understand that there are some legitimate concerns around the visibility of updated mod pages, but this is not a good solution. It's particularly bad for users who track your mod page to know when it has been updated. 
  • Mod list "stuffing" - Creating lots of small mods on separate pages and adding them to a mod list, meaning that each time the list is downloaded a significant amount of DP is generated. Generally, these files could all be on a single page (or bundled with the list) and represent almost no value to the game community outside of the mod list. This wasn't causing a major drain on DP going to other authors but we feel earning DP this way is simply not fair, appropriate or right and we want to stop it. 
  • Quid-pro-quo in mod lists - While less common, there were a few recorded instances of the curators of popular mod lists approaching mod authors and offering to include mods in the Collection/Wabbajack list/etc in exchange for a cut of the Donation Points from all the extra downloads it will generate. Similar to the above, this didn't have a huge impact on the overall DP pools but is not something that we feel is fair to others. 
  • Botnet farming - Using large numbers of throwaway accounts to generate a disproportionate amount of downloads on otherwise unpopular mods to generate more DP. 

We hope you'll agree that none of these things benefit the community and that often these behaviours direct rewards away from other users who have not attempted to manipulate the system. It is not lost on us that this is very much a problem of our own making, which is what we are trying to rectify with these changes. We would also like to highlight that the users doing these things (usually) have no malicious intent and are within the rules of the current system - excluding the botnet issue, obviously. 

As part of our efforts to combat these problems, we'll be updating the Donation Points system rules and changing how the system works to better reward users who make awesome content and share it in a great way for the community. 


What is changing?

The most important change we're introducing is a new "under the hood" algorithm to calculate how Donation Points are allocated. Currently, we share how we work out mod author rewards each month but - while we generally prefer transparency - we feel that, in this case, showing our workings creates a rewards system that is easier to manipulate and encourages users to tailor their content to maximise Donation Points. With that in mind, we've decided to keep the details of the algorithm hidden going forward. We will also periodically tweak the formula to ensure the distribution remains fair and the most positive contributors to the community are being rewarded appropriately.

As a result of these changes, mod authors in the upper percentile of earners in the current system are likely to see a decrease in their Donation Points and many authors in the middle of the pack may see a small boost in what we give them. The metrics are different now so the exact variation will be unique from one user to the next. One thing we're confident in saying is that anyone who has been engaging in the behaviours we listed earlier will see a decrease in their overall earnings. 

We won't be sharing the Donation Points monthly reports for the next few months, but these will return once we've completed the updates to the wallet section of the website required to display the new data. 

Donation Points for January, February, and March 2024 will continue to use the old algorithm and you will receive the amounts shown in your Monthly Reports section. These will be added to your wallet in May, June, and July 2024 respectively (as normal).

The new algorithm applies to Donations Points earned from April 2024 onwards, with the first payout due in August 2024. Don't worry, there will be no change or delay to when the rewards hit your wallets.

We're also updating the Donation Points system rules to clarify what is considered abuse of the system and we'll be reaching out privately to the community members that this affects. Mod authors who don't play by the rules will risk having specific mods disqualified from earning points or, in extreme cases, their entire account may be disqualified from earning DP if our new guidelines and warnings are not followed.


What isn't changing?

We remain committed to donating as much as possible to mod authors each month. Our goal is to continue to increase the pool of funds as our site grows, allowing more authors to benefit from this system. We've already shared over $7.5 million in rewards since starting the scheme in 2018.


Since we changed how mod authors get free Premium, we're adding more game keys and exploring additional possibilities for funky extra rewards we can add to the store to let authors get even more our of their DP. If you've got some ideas, let us know on the forums or the feedback board. 

We will continue to use the NET90 system - meaning your DP will be added to your wallet 90 days after the end of the month (for example, DP earned in January is calculated in February, then is added to your wallet in April). 


How can I ensure I still get a good share of the DP?

Our advice for getting the most out of the new system can be simplified as saying "Make mods that are great for our community and we'll reward you". As authors, there shouldn't be any need to get bogged down in the mechanics of the system anymore. To give you an idea of the kind of behaviours we want to encourage though, here are some top tips:

  • Create awesome mod pages - Provide users with a clear description of what your mod does, how to use it and what they can do if they have problems. 
  • Keep your mods updated - Users love it when they can quickly tell if your mod will work with their game version. Should you not have the time to update your mods, keep your fans informed by updating the mod page or sticky comments. 
  • Centralise your content - Don't make users browse through loads of mod pages to get to all your similar content. Consider batching together related content. You can still offer multiple individual files on a single page. This is particularly important for compatibility patches! 

We know this isn't particularly specific, but that's the point. 


I have more questions!

We understand this is a touchy subject and there are bound to be questions which aren't fully answered here. We've added a new Frequently Asked Questions page to cover these over the next few months as we prepare to roll out the new system. 

Let us know your thoughts in the comments section below or send a PM to one of our Community Managers if you'd rather talk to us privately.

825 comments

  1. Pickysaurus
    Pickysaurus
    • Community Manager
    • 667 kudos
    Locked
    Sticky
    Thank you for all your comments. We understand this is a topic many users are very passionate about. 

    We've updated the FAQ to address the main concerns noted from the various places this has been discussed. 

    Frequently Asked Questions
  2. skellady
    skellady
    • premium
    • 241 kudos
    Thank you for the update!
    In your opinion, what counts as an "okay" page split and what doesn't? For example, in the SDV community, people may release a new mod that adds forage, followed later by a mod that adds recipes for that forage. Therefore, people who only want the forage can get that, and people who want both can install the two mods together. Does it fall under the issue you're trying to address above, or are we talking more about mods that add much smaller things across different pages?

    A big part of our community tends to prefer to have mods split because they like to heavily curate what is included and manicure the interactions between their various mods to not have overlap between multiple sizable mods. I feel like page splitting is necessary in some cases, and may differ from one modding community to another, so some clarification on this would be wonderful!
    1. RoachesAreGross
      RoachesAreGross
      • member
      • 4 kudos
      As a user, I would prefer a single Forage mod page that includes an optional file for recipes. Keeps it more organized.
    2. Elianora
      Elianora
      • premium
      • 12,093 kudos
      Just add the recipe as an OPTIONAL file under the same mod page where you add the forage. It's extremely user-UNfriendly to have people look at multiple mod pages when it all could be just patches or optional files for the same mod page.
    3. Infamous95
      Infamous95
      • premium
      • 242 kudos
      You can split mods on the same page allowing both things to be found easily within the page and it still gives users the choice.
    4. Wildflourmods
      Wildflourmods
      • premium
      • 1,549 kudos
      Hi there - as someone who tries to create extremely modular options for her users I can tell you that putting things under optional files is confusing and I get people who literally don't look there for things constantly. 

      Also, considering that the current Nexus search limits how mods show up in results doesn't help, I try extremely hard to provide my content in a way that's easy for folks to pick and choose what they want. 

      It's one thing if it's one additional file, but I have dozens that are optional add ons for a forage mod. They also are completely fine to download WITHOUT the original forage mod, so making them optional on the forage mod page would make users think they have to download one for the others.

      To be honest after working for months on mod releases after Stardew updated to 1.6 this makes me anxious that I'm going to get penalized for trying to make things easier for my users. 
    5. Mazikeensa
      Mazikeensa
      • premium
      • 20 kudos
      I think you can contact the Nexus moderators and CM's for advice on how to handle it + address your situation, see if you can find something that fits
    6. Elianora
      Elianora
      • premium
      • 12,093 kudos
      THIS. They have always been more than fair with everyone and love to work with you to figure out the best solution.

      It's refreshing to see a sensible, legimate concern about the change, instead of the "omg they changed a thing and i hate change and i refuse to understand how this is a good thing and Nexus is being abusive to mod authors help" garbage some people here are spewing.

      But I would still say having one mod page and everything under optional files would be better for users, rather than browsing 30 mod pages for that one thing they want... Maybe host a poll to see which option the users would prefer?
    7. Wildflourmods
      Wildflourmods
      • premium
      • 1,549 kudos
      It doesn't matter what my users want - my users have been over the moon with the new releases. I get sweet comments and support in the Stardew discord because they all see how much FREE work I put into my overhaul.

      It matters if somehow I'm now breaking the rules on Nexus 

      And I won't know for ...months...if I'm doing the wrong thing ? How is that helpful? I love making mods and now I'm basically going to be anxious for months because Nexus changed the rules and didn't tell me  or anyone the details.
    8. halpyy
      halpyy
      • premium
      • 113 kudos
      I am also concerned as a stardew modder, but specifically about hair/cosmetic packs… I feel like having everything crammed on one page is a bit much especially if you have more than one big pack of hair. 

      How will they determine what is legitimate modsplitting and what is divided up for the sake of convenience and clarity?
    9. GlennCroft
      GlennCroft
      • premium
      • 72 kudos
      You don't have to feel anxious for months, Nexus responds quite quickly through the feedback board or its discord server. Even Pickysaurus has time to answer off-topic stuff from time to time that have nothing to do with the site or the mods. You have a direct line specifically designed to be in contact with the Nexus staff and it's available all the time, you just have to use it, it's there.
    10. icecreamassassin
      icecreamassassin
      • premium
      • 1,799 kudos
      My flagship mod has a page for the main mod, a page for the patches (140+ in a fomod), another page for the creation club patches and several pages made by various people with substantial add-ons like live another life support and start quest, or a item and quest tracker that shows display able items. I think these are solid enough divisions that the new system should still respect (I hope). The thing they are trying to crack down on is "coat tailing" by people who make patches for other people's work 100% without permission that only fix minor things in an effort to get downloads off the popularity of that parent mod. A couple particular authors come to mind with their machine upscale textures and other patch mill garbage. 

      I also have always encouraged people who make 3rd party patches to either consolidate on a single page or to contribute them to either us or the other mod page the patch is for so that it's easier for users to find. Search for various pages is a pain, and we have our own nexus tag and it's still difficult having a bunch of random 3rd party patches scattered about. 
    11. lukaslinner
      lukaslinner
      • premium
      • 0 kudos
      Wildflourmods

      We don't know how the algorithm is going to work but it might decrease the DP reward from the Atelier Goods mods you posted. To me they seem like parts of one mod posted in several mod pages.

      Not dissing you or anything, just honest suggestions. Could they not be included in one FOMOD? If they can I would suggest in doing so. I would think one FOMOD is equally modular as posting it in multiple files and you wont confuse people by posting many files on one mod page. Having one file to download is also easier and more convenient.

      Much of the description seem to be the same on the mod pages and what is unique should be able to fit well on one page with proper formatting.

      When I open the mod page on your user-profile there is a wall of mods with almost the same names and thumbnails. You have a good name and thumbnail style for Atelier Goods but for me that is difficult to read.

      I think it will be better in the long run as well. If you release the mods that way for a while, when users go to check your mods out there wont be so many pages they have to look through. It should also save you time not having to make so many mod pages.
    12. gingerbreadghost
      gingerbreadghost
      • member
      • 0 kudos
      Speaking as a user who only uses Nexus for
      stardew, I definitely prefer to have mods split. I'm usually looking for mods that make specific changes or fit specific themes without overwhelming the base game, and when a mod only has modularity at the file or config level it usually ends up with a vague title that's difficult to search for and often appears large enough to turn me away without looking into its configuration. I appreciate the "mini content pack" setup that a lot of mods have, including some of wildflour's (I downloaded a few of the hxw furniture mods).

      Maybe stardew's community is just not the average modding community, but I know I'm not the only player who mods this way.
    13. Zhuria
      Zhuria
      • premium
      • 42 kudos
      I kind of agree with the general sentiment here; I see little to no reason not to combine very similar mods into one (especially when each mod is tiny) and have each option toggleable in-game via Generic Mod Config Menu. All the tiny mods spread out into several (or dozens) just.. I dunno, I'm not a fan as a mod user or a mod author.

      As a mod user, I'm much less inclined to download a mod that's split into umpteen parts. I'd rather find one that does the same thing but is configurable in-game.

      As a mod author, I like to make my mods highly modular and all-in-one for user convenience. Admittedly in the past I did split them, but that was before GMCM. I'm not as much a fan of combining mods when things need to be touched at the file level. But with GMCM, I guess I don't see any reason not to use it to its fullest!

      To each their own I suppose, and I didn't realize the search was that bad, so that part makes sense. I'd personally prefer less exposure than to have a ton of mods that do nearly the same thing, but I guess I understand.
    14. worm82075
      worm82075
      • premium
      • 69 kudos
      I would kindly like to remind my fellow veteran community members that this site no longer revolves entirely around Bethesda's games. There are SOOOO many other games here now and the best practices for file distribution for Bethesda's games can not and will not line up perfectly with other games. Keep that in mind when you engage in discourse with mod authors of other games you have no experience modding.
  3. itsbooby
    itsbooby
    • premium
    • 104 kudos
    And you thought people didn't read descriptions (and also comment section) now? They're in for a world of hurt if all my modular mods are to be combined in a single page. But whatever. If any of my mods are a problem, let me know, and I'll combine them into one page.
    1. worm82075
      worm82075
      • premium
      • 69 kudos
      You have ONE modular mod released 5-6 years ago with ONLY 4 parts AND you now offer an AIO of that mod. This isn't about you. As you were, carry on.
  4. TwinCrows
    TwinCrows
    • supporter
    • 421 kudos
    Man, it's crazy how blatant Collectors have been gaming the system. Glad that changes are finally being made. I honestly wish that the admins here would be harsher on them.

    We have every right to get pissy at Collectors for exploiting the Download Point system, because it's a closed ecosystem. If you make a patch to fix some minor conflict or to integrate mods, that's all well and good, but you don't deserve an equal amount of reward as the modders who created the mods you're piggybacking off of. I don't care that I get paid like $100 a month, I care that you're a parasite stealing my other $100.

    The way the algorithm worked, and the worst offenders were well aware of this, is that it awards mods equally whether they're a patch or not. So for them it became a game of "how do I make a mod that takes the least effort, and sneak it into my collection", which is of course a patch. A lazy, low-effort patch that parasites off of the high-effort mods that people actually want.

    I have some news for Collectors: Nobody cares about your collection. They want the mods that are in it. They don't care about you, they're here for us, not you.

    Let's look at one of Exo's patches. This should be really impressive, right?

    StoryWealth - Raider Overhaul Patch
    "Mostly reverts some Leveled List changes and tunes back a lot of the changes to the armors to stay more in line with vanilla, while still
    maintaining the vision. "


    So you're telling me this patch doesn't even add anything, but REMOVES content from the mod? So it's not so much of a patch, but a mod that takes out content? And you're telling me it's worth the same amount of DP as the Raider Overhaul itself?

    IMO patches should be ineligible to gain download points, period. Moderators can take a look at reported collections and see if they're gaming the system by categorizing patches incorrectly. All of the worst offenders here are creating patches, and none of them are giving a share of that to the original modders.

    Better yet, make it so that if you make a patch, it must give 90% of that patch's DP to the modders whose works you supposedly care so much about.

    Ban 'em all, I say!
    1. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      That one specific mod is not opted in for donations though. (Logs are available so you can see I didn't just switch it off)

      And I agree that original mod deserve more do than the patch for it. In some cases I've actually forwarded DP from a patch to the original mod author of which I patched for.
    2. TwinCrows
      TwinCrows
      • supporter
      • 421 kudos
      Wow, fast reply. 5 minutes and the man himself is here.

      Why isn't it opted in? You should opt it in and give 100% to the original modder.

      Also, why only "some" cases? You have something against these modders? You should be giving 90% of your DP to the modders you're scalping off of.
    3. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      In this case they are also opted out.
    4. FinalCatalyst
      FinalCatalyst
      • premium
      • 8 kudos
      If you're gonna s#*! on the dude - at least pick a patch opted in to DP, and where the original mod the patch is for is also opted into DP. Neither are opted in, and the original mod the patch is for has its permission locked down so you are not allowed to opt in for DP anyway. I'm all for exposing the farmers (and this dude is a huge problem, as pointed out by others where he has over a hundred of his own mods in his collection), but it really doesn't look good when you pick a random patch like this and it completely backfires...

      At least pick a mod like his "Vault 28 - eXoPatch" that is opted in for DP, even though the base mod, "Vault 28 - The Absent Ghoul" has its permissions set for "You are not allowed to earn Donation Points for your mods if they use my assets". Does all the DP he generates for this patch go to the original author? 
    5. ElSopa
      ElSopa
      • premium
      • 4,929 kudos
      eats popcorn
      laughs
    6. DankRafft
      DankRafft
      • premium
      • 1,160 kudos
      That one specific mod is not opted in for donations though. (Logs are available so you can see I didn't just switch it off)
      But it was opted in when the mod page was first released. You hesitantly disabled the DP system on that page later on when you got contacted by another author. You even acknowledged that in another comment on this same page.
      Btw, the mod page (author) logs never list changes to your DP settings. So, no, they can't see that you "didn't just switch it off".
    7. worm82075
      worm82075
      • premium
      • 69 kudos
      TwinCrows Better yet, make it so that if you make a patch, it must give 90% of that patch's DP to the modders whose works you supposedly care so much about.

      That doesn't make any sense. There are many broken and abandoned mods on this site that are ONLY usable because of someone else's patch. Most patches make it so two or more mods play nice together, how do you divvy that DP up? If I make a patch it is useless without the original mod so it takes no DP away from the original. On top of that mods that require many patches like ANY mod requiring AWKCR will be massively rewarded for their outdated and abandoned files. I don't think you thought this through. It's a bad idea.
    8. Pulskin
      Pulskin
      • member
      • 0 kudos
      Another one who has this special kind of stupidity. Why dont you think before you post?

      "I don't care that I get paid like $100 a month, I care that you're a parasite stealing my other $100."

      If you do not care, SHUT THE FK UP! Stealing YOUR money? It's extra downloads. For the creator of the collection AND for you. Fkn dumbasses these days.

      "Ban 'em all, I say!"
      If so, they should start with morons like you. You can't even think straight.


      Btw, I actually care about collections. There are just no good ones yet. Curating and maintaining a good collection is a ton of work and needs persistence.

      Edit: Of course! You are asking for money on patreon for your mods.
      Thanks for your tremendous works like this. I'll consider getting your 34 bucks tier on patreon.
  5. CrEaToXx
    CrEaToXx
    • premium
    • 334 kudos
    Please remove the DP entirely.

    The discussion about it is pointless and so is the argument about missing loyality towards the Nexus and its owner. You bet someone dedicating a lot of passion, time and sharing effort ranging across multiple platforms, to the cause, probably doesn't do that out of disloyality. But that doesn't mean one refuses to accpet free money for nothing, if it literally gets throwen at them.

    I said it once, I say it again. Money, or any other compensation in that regard, really shouldn't be the motivator to why we are doing this whole modding madness(both creating and using). The major reason for me is because I love playing games, and I love to fiddle them up to customize the experience. Nobody's perfect after all, not even big game companies. Luckily the Nexus provides decent service and a reliable place to backup my stuff.

    If there's one thing this discussion shows then it's there are many reasons why to remove the DP, and there are only a few sane to keep it in place, if your intention really is to push and help the Nexus to stay alive/enable it for creating an even better user experience. Of course, you'd be doing that by giving up some personal benefit. How much discipline and consequence can you manage to bring up in that regard?

    Said, I remember when we used to mod
    In the playtime yard on the Nexus
    Oba-observing the vanillacrites
    As they would not mingle with the modders we've met

    Good friends we have, oh, good friends we've lost - Along the way
    In this great future, you can't forget your past
    So dry your tears, I seh

    And, no DP, no cry
    No DP, no cry
    'Ere, little darlin', don't shed no tears
    No DP, no cry
    1. WeatherPainterAshley
      WeatherPainterAshley
      • premium
      • 470 kudos
      Nobody wants DP to go and the additional compensation is very nice and for some is actual income.

      What we do want is a less abuseable System that treats those who actually care about their mods get treated fairly
    2. DankRafft
      DankRafft
      • premium
      • 1,160 kudos
      Some time ago I had the same attitude. I felt the DP system, especially when combined with collections, was way too abusive and brought some shady individuals and practices into this community. From my perspective it seemed like that there were way more collaborations and generally community efforts before those systems existed, while with those systems in place people strived more and more for personal gain and locked down permissions for others while trying to work around permissions of others.

      But I can't deny that those systems also brought in many new mod authors willing to spend time to create something original and fun. Maybe their primary motivation is the DP system and money but as long as they don't try to game those systems and screw over other authors I mostly see benefits here.
    3. dvdaed
      dvdaed
      • premium
      • 12 kudos
      cringe.
    4. Pulskin
      Pulskin
      • member
      • 0 kudos
      Shut the fk up you unknowing idiot. Everyone who is creating mods to make money is dumb. There's not much to gain compared to the effort you have to put in.

      It's a little compensation. Users like to support mod authors. If NexusMods removes the DP we will see Patreon and all kind of this s#*! everywhere. Or NexusMods just dies. Think about how many mod authors got bought out of here.

      "Of course, you'd be doing that by giving up some personal benefit." This is the dumbest I've read since this year. Man, are you really this kind of stupid? NexusMods is on a good way. Communicating with the whole community to make it the best we all can do together. That's why we had a survey. That was the point where you should have put your dumb opinion. Not now, not here. This is just brainless crying, because it's not the way you wished for.

      Keep your shitty and dumb opinion next time to yourself. Or atleast put some thoughts in it BEFORE you hit that submit button.


      Edit: You goddamn hypocrite. You have DP enabled for all your mods and are clamoring to remove it. Go back to where you came from and stay there. No one wants a shitty, uneducated, hypocritical opinion that no one asked for.

      Edit 2: You even credit yourself for your own mods. Geez.
    5. RowanMaBoot
      RowanMaBoot
      • premium
      • 381 kudos
      CrEaToXx - I would say you're speaking from a position of privilege if you're arguing that money shouldn't be a motivator. For many of us money is always a motivator in life - it keeps the lights on and puts food on the table. Donations are not a new thing, and I've seen modders raking in silly money through their Patreons in the past. In a sense it is art, and whilst some artists work out of passion, they are absolutely not adverse to having a sponsor.

      I'm grateful for DP because it pays for subscriptions to some of the services/tools I use for modding, meaning modding itself doesn't have a net negative cost associated, which it might otherwise. If DP wasn't a thing, I'd either be burning cash monthly and simply wouldn't have or use the tools I do. I'd still mod as much as I do now without it, as it isn't an income, but it does allow me to mod without worrying about how much modding is costing me, and I hope others feel the same.

      Additionally, I would guess Nexus also wants to remain competitive in the mod hosting market. Minecraft (Curseforge, Modrinth) and the Sims community have modder reward programs, for example, and it is quite possible that modders could have been drawn away in the future to a competing platform if it promised some sort of fiscal reward (in the absence of one by Nexus).
  6. HeavenlyHellBase
    HeavenlyHellBase
    • supporter
    • 11 kudos
    We absolutely do NOT agree with everything here. The effort is great and very welcome tho. This is a great move from your side, NexusMods! We highly appreciate this.

    Our concerns are about mod splitting and mod list "stuffing". In our opinion it is the best for the whole modding community to be able to choose every single part of your game. In an extreme case this means picking single textures. To prevent chaos when using this approach we recommend significantly expanding the collections and dividing them into several layers, e.g. texture collections that are part of another collection.

    We actually wanted to make this happen within Fallout 4 modding. But this was before Bethesda broke it once again. Maybe we will come back to this; maybe not. Anyway, here is the full idea of smaller collections, which we call modules:


    The Idea
    Please note that these modules are to be regarded as suggestions for the modding community. So if you have any suggestions for improvement, you are welcome to make changes. However, we also ask anyone who does this to contact us so that we can discuss the changes and then implement them if necessary. It is a high priority of ours not to cause further chaos on NexusMods. If we find that the modules are not accepted by the community in any way, we will remove them sooner or later.
    By splitting a collection into several smaller modules, we hope to achieve the following benefits:

    • It will be much easier for users to put together a large modlist without having to test every single mod
    • Languages can be properly separated (shame on NexusMods for not including this)
    • Patches and settings can be downloaded directly with their associated mods
    • Large modlists can be split between multiple authors

    The Structure
    Each module title is made up as follows: [ID-LanguageCode] Module Name
    The module name logically indicates which mods are included, e.g. "[07b-WW] Power Armor" only contains mods that deal with Power Armor.

    The Modules[00-WW] Base
    [00a-WW] Tools and Utilities
    [00b-WW] Tweaks and (Bug) Fixes
    [00c-WW] Controls
    [01-WW] Visuals and Graphics
    [01a-WW] User Interface
    [01b-WW] Weather and Lighting
    [01c-WW] Animation
    [01d-WW] Textures and Models
    [01e-WW] Skins
    [01f-WW] Gore
    [01g-WW] PRP
    [02-WW] Audio
    [02a-WW] Music
    [02b-WW] Item Sounds
    [02c-WW] Player Sounds
    [02d-WW] Battle Sounds
    [02e-WW] Voice
    [03-WW] Evironment
    [03a-WW] Vaults and Settlements
    [03b-WW] New Lands
    [03c-WW] New Locations
    [04-WW] Story
    [04a-WW] Dialogues
    [04b-WW] Factions
    [04c-WW] Quests
    [04d-WW] Books
    [05-WW] Gameplay
    [05a-WW] Immersion
    [05b-WW] Perks
    [05c-WW] Items
    [05d-WW] Collectibles
    [05e-WW] Video
    [06-WW] Characters
    [06a-WW] Body
    [06b-WW] Face
    [06c-WW] Hair
    [06d-WW] Companions
    [06e-WW] Settlers
    [06f-WW] Enemies
    [06g-WW] Character Presets
    [07-WW] Equipment
    [07a-WW] Clothing
    [07b-WW] Power Armor
    [07c-WW] Weapons
    [07d-WW] Ammo
    [08-WW] Crafting
    [08a-WW] Settlement Crafting
    [08b-WW] Prefabs
    [08c-WW] Furniture
    [08d-WW] Resources
    [08e-WW] Decorations
    [08f-WW] Recipes
    [09-WW] Miscellaneous
    [09a-WW] Patches
    [09b-WW] Modders Resources
    [09c-WW] Tutorials
    [09d-WW] Saved Games


    We really hope this message finds you all well and that we can make this reality for all games on NexusMods. Please, feel free to optimize our idea even further. We are not fully there yet!
    1. Pulskin
      Pulskin
      • member
      • 0 kudos
      This.
    2. Wealthsocker
      Wealthsocker
      • member
      • 1 kudos
      Dude.
    3. Pickysaurus
      Pickysaurus
      • Community Manager
      • 667 kudos
      I may be wrong, but isn't what you're describing already a practice shared by both you and Sepharjin Fallout 4
    4. HeavenlyHellBase
      HeavenlyHellBase
      • supporter
      • 11 kudos
      That's correct. As stated in the initial comment we left our collections in a work state (unpublished). We also reached out to Sephrajin to make it a collaborative work, but this failed sort of terribly. We felt like that his approach would'nt be applicable in a bigger scale and he was not interested in changing anything from his side nor putting any effort into it. Thus we decided to just ignore his approach from there on.

      But, yes, that's the idea. We want to perfect it and spread it across NexusMods. As stated above, this is not the case yet. We still see potential to optimize our approach. That's why we are sharing the idea here now instead of just publishing the collections ourself.

      Edit: As far as we are concerned, there is no bad blood between Sephrajin and us. It just didn't work out. And we think it's absolutely legitimate not to feel the need to put any more work into a project like this.
    5. Pulskin
      Pulskin
      • member
      • 0 kudos
      Can we all please focus more on ideas like this? And just work out something nice that we can all live with instead of pushing these annoying, negative comments where we jump on each other?

      Let's help NexusMods to become even greater. For all us.
  7. Siberpunk
    Siberpunk
    • premium
    • 1,080 kudos
    This post really exposed the DP farming issue.

    The DP system is fantastic and thank you to Nexus for continuing to improve it. Time will tell, but I’m optimistic for how this changes the incentive structure. I hope it leads to better mods, less spam, and more rewards and visibility especially for smaller mod authors making original work.

    PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY CREATE GOOD MODS ARE NOT THREATENED BY THESE CHANGES AT ALL.
    1. Zanderat
      Zanderat
      • premium
      • 203 kudos
      ^^^^^^This.  The only complainers are folks who have gamed the system and now the jig is up.
    2. ChildofDragons
      ChildofDragons
      • premium
      • 22 kudos
      People really told on themselves with these comments.
    3. ElSopa
      ElSopa
      • premium
      • 4,929 kudos
      PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY CREATE GOOD MODS ARE NOT THREATENED BY THESE CHANGES AT ALL.
      Exactly
    4. DankRafft
      DankRafft
      • premium
      • 1,160 kudos
      PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY CREATE GOOD MODS ARE NOT THREATENED BY THESE CHANGES AT ALL.
      Some of the authors who you consider creating "good mods" might see a dip as well but I suspect the majority will benefit from it in a more fair way. And in the end the main goal is to make using mods better for everyone. But we'll see the result in a couple of months.
  8. Euphan
    Euphan
    • premium
    • 26 kudos
    I think the end goal here is to make sure mods remain free for the users and keep them maintained with a certain quality.
    If this DP change will contribute to this goal, then so be it.
    We are all users before anything else, so I guess user experience will always come first.
    1. DankRafft
      DankRafft
      • premium
      • 1,160 kudos
      I like your attitude. :)
  9. 2077v2
    2077v2
    • premium
    • 182 kudos
    While I can understand the decision to hide the algorithm so that it isn't abused this is NOT a good change. Transparency is key and I am very surprised at this change.

    Mod splitting - Breaking mods down into as many smaller parts as possible to post each part on a separate mod page where there is almost no reason to do so other than to maximise DP. 

    How will the above be moderated? Let's take a retexture Mod for a game split into 30 parts. What will happen here?

    • They can't all be included in the one page for size reasons.
    • Some take significant care in each process and deserve to be rewarded for it.

    Mod list "stuffing" - Creating lots of small mods on separate pages and adding them to a mod list, meaning that each time the list is downloaded a significant amount of DP is generated. Generally, these files could all be on a single page (or bundled with the list) and represent almost no value to the game community outside of the mod list. This wasn't causing a major drain on DP going to other authors but we feel earning DP this way is simply not fair, appropriate or right and we want to stop it. 
    I am no great Mod Author but what I do is create Great Mod Collections. The goal for this has always been to make it easier for a new user to download a great list of working mods. I never cared about DP, but what started out to be a hobby is now a full-time job and there are many of us curators that see it like this. We can use the DP to create better collections and pay for the tools that we need to continue to provide a great experience for our large user base and buy a Pizza for dinner at night for our efforts.

    Our Mods may not be great on their own but the 100s of hours we put in each month deserve some kind of recognition. If our collections are popular and we have a basic mod of ours included (ie small tweaks, patches etc) then these should NOT  be exempt or the amount of DP reduced. How is the algorithm going to calculate these mods? 


    EDIT 18 May 2024

    I am sure my next statement will be taken out of context as seems the theme of this post.

    I am grateful for Mod Authors and Nexus without them none of what I do would be possible. I have put a lot of effort into promoting large and small Mod Authors where I can. With how bad the visibility for new mods on Nexus is some of the mods I have included wouldn't have seen many downloads at all. I have and I am always willing to help Mod Authors anywhere I can when it comes to testing their mods or providing feedback.

    With more than 100k Unique downloads across my collections imagine the amount of DP that the Mod Authors have received. Some of these authors have 50+ Mods in my Collections. Xilandro do the math on this one. And I am being attacked for including less than 30 Mods across my 27 collections.

    This post and the comments are a joke. Nexus shouldn't have put words in people's mouths with this statement when there are only a few people taking advantage of the system (When it comes to collections) these users that are "stuffing" should have been contacted privately instead of the public way that it has been addressed, now all curators names have been tarnished.

    I communicate with Nexus daily and if there was ever an issue with my collections or mods then I would have been informed.

    Mod list "stuffing" - Creating lots of small mods on separate pages and adding them to a mod list, meaning that each time the list is downloaded a significant amount of DP is generated. Generally, these files could all be on a single page (or bundled with the list) and represent almost no value to the game community outside of the mod list. This wasn't causing a major drain on DP going to other authors but we feel earning DP this way is simply not fair, appropriate or right and we want to stop it. 

    This is my final response to this announcement. Thank you to all the users and Authors who have reached out or commented in a positive way since this announcement was posted.
    1. Xilandro
      Xilandro
      • premium
      • 2,548 kudos
      what I do is create Great Mod Collections
      Man I wish I had your level of self-confidence and ego.
    2. ToxicWhiteout
      ToxicWhiteout
      • premium
      • 170 kudos
      Respectfully, Mod Collections should not earn DP - especially if they are not your mods. Collections are great, but putting together a list of great mods should not be enough to profit off another modder's work.

      DP should always go 100% to each separate mod.
    3. 2077v2
      2077v2
      • premium
      • 182 kudos
      Xilandro I didn't mean for it to sound like that. But I take great pride in what my team and I do and if the content we have created is so popular then why not say that what we create is great?
    4. WeatherPainterAshley
      WeatherPainterAshley
      • premium
      • 470 kudos
      Nexus has a 20GB per File Limit, so yes. You can fit everything into 1 Modpage


      As for collections, all patches you make are only ever usable in your collections. So yes they all should come from 1 Page, splitting them up is purely for DP farming reasons.

      Also: You’re not owed anything, you decided on your own to spend that time.
    5. 2077v2
      2077v2
      • premium
      • 182 kudos
      ToxicWhiteout I used to share this same opinion and somewhat still do but for the reasons listed above my thoughts have changed on this. And DP always goes to the author if their mods are included in a collection. A curator doesn't earn DP from a collection but if we include our own mods then they do.

      Generally, I agree with your comment. But some of us do a hell of a lot more than just throw some mods together and hope for the best.
    6. icecreamassassin
      icecreamassassin
      • premium
      • 1,799 kudos
      Yep, I second this, collections getting DP is a bit like YouTubers getting to directly monetize off reviewing mods when those mods often make no money. 
    7. CrEaToXx
      CrEaToXx
      • premium
      • 334 kudos
      Yeah, it feels like that whole Tik Tok and reaction video mentality. You know something went the wrong way if popularity defines quality of content, that isn't even based on personal effort. By that definition a certain subject of the German past would have been one of the greatest artists ever. And as far as I can tell the Munich School of Arts said no!
    8. acidzebra
      acidzebra
      • premium
      • 194 kudos
      Several of 2077v2's collections use up to 10-15 of their own mods (all opted in to DP), that's a 10-15x amplification for every download of the collection. I can see why they're worried about mod stuffing.
    9. 2077v2
      2077v2
      • premium
      • 182 kudos
      acidzebra Yes, and I don't exploit this. We have many things bundled in one mod page. 
    10. Xilandro
      Xilandro
      • premium
      • 2,548 kudos
      @2077v2 content in the collection might be great, yet you haven't created it. Putting together collections and saying "look what great collections I make!" and then right after you say "if the content we have created is so popular then why not say that what we create is great" is a bit of an ego trip (ok, fine, not a bit). Sorry but anyone can make such "Great" collections by adding good/popular mods into one.
      Also nearly all of your mods fall under each "issues with DP system" category that nexus is about to address.
      Also as acidzebra pointed out, you just put all those mods into your collection to maximize DP
    11. CrEaToXx
      CrEaToXx
      • premium
      • 334 kudos
      @2077v2

      The fact that you address me personally in a newsline topic discussion, to advertise your "work", speaks more about your "quality" content than a thousand words. So excuse me while I politely say no!
    12. 2077v2
      2077v2
      • premium
      • 182 kudos
      Xilandro I wont continue to respond as you have clearly taken what I have said the wrong way. Not anyone can create it, it's not about just adding great mods to a list it's a whole lot more than that, but I understand why people like you have these opinions you, feel we are riding the coat tails of Mod Authors. The mods I have include are to make life easier or enhance the user experience. If I was here to abuse the system then my tweaks package for each collection would be split into single mod pages. Regards v2.
    13. 2077v2
      2077v2
      • premium
      • 182 kudos
      CrEaToXx Ahh yes the internet how great. I am not trying to advertise anything I was merely trying to explain the quality is there and what better way to show you than a few clicks on my profile? But yes I really need your 1 download mate.
    14. bp42s
      bp42s
      • premium
      • 264 kudos
      you have like 5+ “constellation tweaks” mods or variations of that, you are exactly the problem nexus is talking abt lol
    15. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      Xilandro,
      You underestimate the time it takes to maintain and support a collection. As a Curator/Collection you'll get the support inquiries of ALL the mods in your collection. It becomes YOUR responsibility to make it work. All this while you're not entitled to any of the rewards it seems.
    16. GlennCroft
      GlennCroft
      • premium
      • 72 kudos
      Man, you said it yourself, that you and your team are doing this as a full-time job and what most people here ranting about the so "transparency" be the key of blahblahblah it's just that, a chicanery. Just call it as it is: bad for your business and personal gains. There's no shame on that. I want to see the day the patreon donors stop giving away their money which is the main money injection the DP system has, would you and your team go back modding as a hobby? Yeah, i doubt it.
    17. brys0nbb
      brys0nbb
      • premium
      • 74 kudos
      Multiple files can absolutely be put onto one mod page and there's no "size limit" to anything of the sort. It's about people who spam mod pages in general instead of just putting multiple files within one mod page that can be put on one mod page, like a compilation of patches or a full game texture overhaul being split into tons of individual mod pages for example.
    18. CrEaToXx
      CrEaToXx
      • premium
      • 334 kudos
      @Exoclyps

      No I don't. I actually have a very good idea about it, and I have a good foundation to compare it against creating mods. You know, the internet research. The getting familiar with tools. The learning multiple coding languages. The learning to deal with user inquiries. The providing updates, feedback and support. And last but not least the actual building the mod, and playing with it to verify its functionality.

      There's probably more to consider, including providing recommended and personally curated mod lists.
    19. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      CrEaToXx,
      Then you also know that for bigger collections there is multiple "support members" that spend enough time that'd it be considered full-time work on helping users with making sure everything is working for them. With this change where Nexus decided to single out collections they decided this is not worth to be paid. After April which brought the biggest traffic in history of Nexus, it was time to just well... change how it was done.
    20. Xilandro
      Xilandro
      • premium
      • 2,548 kudos
      @Exoclyps Maybe beginner mod users will believe you. But I'm very sorry, I've been around for a while, and I think I have pretty good estimation how collections are maintained and supported, compared to how mods are supported and maintained. It would take a fraction of time to maintain and support a collection, compared to the time required to maintain and support a single code-based or a complex gameplay mod.
      I give credit where credit is due. But creating leech mods or 15+ "super tweaks" or "mega patches" and putting them into a collection, then asking to be rewarded for maintaining such collection with DP, and today getting very vocal and unhappy when the nexus comes with a big stick of "oh no you don't"? That asks for some undefined, yet large negative amount of credit.
    21. halgari
      halgari
      • App Developer
      • 626 kudos
      (speaking as a user here, not a Nexus Staff member)

      I found this comment to be a good starting place. 
      Check our our community and check out what we do the quality is there. 

      So as a matter of discussion, I took a look at "City of Dreams (Heavy) by v2", I'm a massive fan of Cyberpunk so this'll is a fun place to start for me. If I look at the mods, sort by author, what I find is the following uploaded by you and included in the collection:


      • Character Preset Backup
      • City of Dreams Radio
      • City of Dreams Loading Screens (Adult)
      • City of Dreams Menu Backgrounds
      • City of Dreams Saves Backup
      • Edgunner Braindance Remastered
      • Main Menu Splash screen Remastered
      • Unlocked FOV
      • V2 Customs Rayfield Caliburn 450mph
      • v2 Customs Colby Little Mule
      • V2 City of Dreams Ultimate Atelier 2.12

      Now of those, I think we can see that roughly 3/4ths of those are specifically aimed at collections or personal loadouts. I'm pointing here at the backgrounds, loading screens and the remasters. People aren't likely to download those outside of your collections. Infact in general we see about 4x the downloads to page views. Why not combine them all into a single page of "Loading Screens and Backgrounds Remastered"? Or put them all into groups, all the backgrounds and screens in one, video remasters in another etc. Split them up by .archive and allow users to pick and choose when they install.

      Of course there are mods here that are pretty unique. Unlock FOV has about equal page views and downloads, telling me that it's something a lot of people want search for and use. 

      At any rate, I think we can all agree that the current system incentivizes people split mods up, and get them into collections, and that a system that makes that approach less lucrative is better for the users. I don't know anymore about this system than the original article mentions, but I've become more and more unhappy with the status quo where authors are incentivized to put one file in each mod and upload 20 mods. Not that this is new, it started in Skyrim with animal animation overhauls and door reworks back in the day, it's just that now it's everywhere, and I'd argue even in your collection.
    22. Korodic
      Korodic
      • premium
      • 551 kudos
      Mod collections should absolutely earn DP, it’s an effort that takes time just like creating the mods they list, which also benefit from the collection’s existence. Lists also require updates to stay relevant. All digital goods have a shelf life. Quality will separate the DP farming junk from the gems, this is true for mods and lists alike.
    23. 2077v2
      2077v2
      • premium
      • 182 kudos
      Xilandro This shouldn't be an argument of "whos job is harder" We are just trying to explain that a lot more goes into Curating than you think and this comment clearly proves it.
    24. 2077v2
      2077v2
      • premium
      • 182 kudos
      halgari Hi mate. The problem with including a lot of different mods in one mod page is that they won't be easily found when searched for on Nexus. The remasters could be grouped and this could be said for many upscales and textures across all games but many of them take time to complete and are then released at different times. If I create a mod that I think would be useful to others outside of the Collection then I will create a new Mod.
    25. Xilandro
      Xilandro
      • premium
      • 2,548 kudos
      "you don't seem to understand how hard it is"
      "yes I do. It's not."
      "this should not be an argument! How dare you use it against me, you have no idea how hard it is and saying that you do proves you don't, reeee, I want my moneeeeeeey"
      🤡
    26. Roni8501
      Roni8501
      • premium
      • 112 kudos
      To create a mod collection of any large size will often require making your own patches for the specific combination of mods you're putting in it. These can be uploaded as mods or in a patch hub. There's your DP for collections. If you aren't doing that, then yes, it's just compiling work other people made and trying to earn DP off it.
    27. XilaMonstrr
      XilaMonstrr
      • premium
      • 1,422 kudos
      halgari

      Some of those mods that you recommend combining are optional or can be replaced. Having mods parsed out separately allows for users to create their own experience. If you want to use v2's loading screens but a main menu background that isn't in the collection, you can do so. If the mods were combined that could still be possible but would be more confusing. While the main point of collections is to create an easy user experience, many users who have done a lot of mod installations don't like collections that limit their ability to make changes.
      While a DP distribution system that takes this into account in order to attempt a more equitable distribution is a great goal, I don't think it's fair for Nexus to profit off people's labor and then hide the data on how that's done. And for Nexus to accuse MAs and collection curators of stuffing mods in order to farm DPs, without acknowledging the reasons for splitting them up is pretty disrespectful.
    28. 2077v2
      2077v2
      • premium
      • 182 kudos
      halgari  That is something I forgot to mention. Some of the mods we add to collections are optional so they aren't receiving downloads even if the collection is downloaded.
    29. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      @Xilandro tell that to the people in my collection that spent enough time last month equalling a full-time job supporting users.

      To have a collection that brings that much traffic it becomes an issues, it also means the support is quite high.

      But again thats not seen.
    30. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      @Roni8501
      And until now, that's what made it fine. But if they remove the reward for that because they find collections cheating. You'll no longer have any full time curators. Just hobbyists that spend the time they have on the side.
    31. 2077v2
      2077v2
      • premium
      • 182 kudos
      Exoclyps And in turn the Collections feature will be dead.
    32. Roni8501
      Roni8501
      • premium
      • 112 kudos
      If only there was a way for collections to earn DP...
      Spoiler:  
      Show




      I respect patching, etc. But there's no need to double dip. (And, frankly, I don't care about "full time curators" or full time modding. This is a hobby. If you want full time money for full time work, modding should not be it.)
    33. KaneMcBane
      KaneMcBane
      • member
      • 8 kudos
      Its crazy to me people are really having this debate; this is part of the mod process and shouldnt generate extra dp. Idk if anyone has seen the king of the hill episode where bobby and joeseph become street bums, but it feels like that and regular mod authors are the crazy dude who's spot they stole.
    34. GlennCroft
      GlennCroft
      • premium
      • 72 kudos
      You have to give the man some credit, his comment already became a meme in the community.
    35. Livelynightmare
      Livelynightmare
      • premium
      • 100 kudos
      As someone that makes modlists for Wabbajack (not Collections, but same deal, really), I can't agree with you about any of this, re: 2077v2 and Exoclyps. I've chosen this as my hobby and I can quit whenever I want. My patches don't have the same value as most full-fledged mods on this site, and I'm perfectly fine with that. It's also the reason you don't see me cheating the system like Exo does. A vast majority of my work is inlined into the .wabbajack file itself. You won't find "Magnum Opus Previsibines" on Nexus. You won't find anything modlist-specific from me on Nexus. I've long held the belief that I'll only upload things that can benefit the entire community, not just people using my specific modlists. I've said that for years and I've stuck to it, because it's simply the morally correct thing to do.

      Dark, Halgari, Picky, and the rest of you: good work. I don't entirely agree with the lack of transparency, but I do understand the reasoning from your perspective. This post basically echoed my entire survey response, so I'm glad to hear this is happening. All the best to you.

      Roni, that screenshot is hilarious.I knew Exo was awesome at DP farming because I see that nonsense every time I check new mods, but I didn't realize the extent of it until now. What a joke.

      And Dark: leave my cats alone, you monster.
    36. sqarex5292
      sqarex5292
      • member
      • 5 kudos
      you do xilandro, you do
    37. WeatherPainterAshley
      WeatherPainterAshley
      • premium
      • 470 kudos
      There’s Wabbajack List Authors who make don’t make any money and do it all for free…

      So yea, you definitely can do it for absolutely free
    38. fardriel
      fardriel
      • premium
      • 26 kudos
      Some of those mods that you recommend combining are optional or can be replaced
      How is this not solved by having the files from those optional mods uploaded into the single listing under the Optional download header? That's literally what that header is for. That is its entire reason for existence.

      Besides, what I read from this announcement is "those who upload separate mod listings for things that could be a single mod listing with multiple downloads will receive (roughly) the same amount of DP as those who upload a single mod listing with multiple downloads." The "punishment" is only relative to the current system. It's basically saying, "You won't get to benefit from the loopholes in the system anymore. We're closing them."
    39. madpaddy
      madpaddy
      • premium
      • 94 kudos
      @Exoclyps
      I for one 100% agree that people like yourself should defo get rewarded with DP, I use your Storywealth and have for pretty much since you started it and as someone who has modded games for a long time and knows how difficult it can be to get hundreds of mods working perfectly together I can see with all your patches and updates how much work goes into it and the hundreds of questions people ask when they have a problem. I think it would be a great injustice if you didn't get something for your time and the extra downloads those authors get when someone like me finds they love one of their mods in your collection and then downloads more of their work...

      People doing two-second upscale or recolouring a pair of gloves and making a new page yes that kind of stuff needs to be stopped, but some of those collections have a lot of time and effort put into them and are well maintained, maybe a system where if the collection gets no updates or changes after a set time they then stop getting DP or the DP they get auto goes to charity...
    40. Obicnii
      Obicnii
      • premium
      • 1,191 kudos
      @madpaddy 

      Collections shouldn't earn DP at all!

      Curators aren't same as mod authors and they never will be. They leech off of mod authors and gain DP both as mod authors and curators because they add 10 of their 1min mods into collections which people otherwise would never download. This means they can get 5x 10x 15x times more DP than people that made mods which make their collections even relevant? In most cases without ever even asking for permission from authors of those mods! 

      Curators don't patch mods in their collections because they don't know how to do it, only thing they can do is install different mod in their place, or wait for original mod authors to patch them so "Updating and patching is difficult" justification part from previous posts is just pure bullshit. "Its hard to get them to be compatible" is also bullshit because nearly all of gameplay mods have compatibility lists on their main pages! It takes 10 minutes to set up a collection and learn how to make them. It takes years to just learn how to code or model, and then hundreds of hours combining of all of what you have learned with effort to make decent mods.

      This means, if you allow DP on collections, you harm everyone that makes mods that those collections use. Because, what it literally means is you should work hard, and someone that uses your stuff will make more than you do with no effort. They are smart and you are stupid.

      I am so happy for this DP update stopping most of this bs because I didnt realize it was this bad before
    41. kojak747
      kojak747
      • premium
      • 732 kudos
      You don't like the fact the new algorithm is hidden, because it means you don't know how to garner it. Guess what, now you have to go back and unify all your mods, and even then your gonna make way waaaay less DP than previously. In fact, you'll be making an amount of DP thats similar to what many of us earn on this site. You sticking around?
    42. 2077v2
      2077v2
      • premium
      • 182 kudos
      kojak747 I will stay no matter what happens, the reason I do this is to provide an easier experience for new users and because I love helping people. All curators want is some recognition.
    43. madpaddy
      madpaddy
      • premium
      • 94 kudos
      @Obicnii

      I disagree Exoclyps puts a lot of time and effort into his collection and if you looked at it he has made patches for lots of mods in it so they all work together, maybe the DP system needs a tweak for collections but there should 100% still be a DP reward. The problem is once you start down the who is and isn't worthy road there's no end, because there will be people say your mods or another mod isn't "mod" enough, your mod only took 2 weeks to make mine took 6 months and on and on it goes. Yes the mod splitting and the taking open perm mods and doing a 1 minute upscale etc is bang out of order and needs sorting. But just because you, me or anybody thinks another mod isn't mod enough isn't a road I think we need to go down. I would say the 3 million boob mods are not really mods but when thousands download it obviously plenty would disagree, that's not to say there are no crap collections that are obviously some that are a DP grab, but the good ones have had a lot of time spent on them and still do...
    44. Xilandro
      Xilandro
      • premium
      • 2,548 kudos
      Before yesterday, I also thought people who make collections and work hard on patches and so on - deserve some rewards. I did. I was a bit skeptical because usually mod authors themselves don't get much rewards, and there'd be another person benefiting from their hard work, but I was like "I mean, it goes both ways, author would get more if collection is nice, and amount of rewards for the curator can be balanced for an actual effort they put, the support, etc, it could work".

      But after I've seen what they actually do (yes, I didn't know, I was aware only about splitting), while also whining and crying that they want money for their "genius great work" - all I want for them is to get a nice smack with a banhammer. Imagine stuffing collection with dozens of patches, and dozens of otherwise uninteresting mods (both by the "grandmaster coorator"), to farm DP en masse, and then have the arrogance to ask for a reward. And their pages, holy c*ap, all filled with "patreon me, donate to me, I'm so cool so dedicated give me moneeeey!" And all of it while they build collections out of other people's hard work.
      I've seen the most stupid argument yesterday here, that "we wouldn't stuff if we were rewarded", but that's just blatant lie. They totally would. Some of them openly admit they work on collections and stuff their split mods and patches to make a ton of buck and nothing else, because this is their "job" and "main source of income". Would they suddenly stop stuffing and splitting, if they were getting idk, a hundred bucks monthly for their "grand" efforts? They don't want $100, lol. They want thousands of dollars. There's nothing "out of love for the community" or about passion in their work. Just maximizing money any way they can. Quite literally parasites:
      an organism that lives in or on an organism of another species (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense.

      Obviously, not every collection curators are like that. Smaller collections that aren't shoved in everyone's face have nice mods, no stuffing, no splitting from the curator. And they don't do it for the money to begin with. Some of them have few mods of their own in there, maybe few combined patches, and that's totally cool, they get their stable DP monthly.


      With all that said, I think problem with stuffing and splitting for collections specifically, by people like v2 or exocl, will continue. They will find a way, I can already see one or two myself. But then they'll get kicked out for good the moment they get caught (and they will). Tho most likely they'll bolt from here themselves, now that their "main source of income" is gone.

      So we live in a point in time when curators have to be curated. Constantly. Are we gonna waste someone's time for that to overview if they're good or bad now, to check if they should get rewards for collections? Moderators have enough work already (and aren't paid for any of it). Users? They won't go checking, they're in a constant excitement state "omg cool collection full of badass mods and this curator is such a nice guy look how well-designed his profile is!". They wouldn't report bad behavior if it was literally happening in front of their eyes. Or should authors run around like squirrels in a wheel, to check if they're being screwed by yet another "coorator"? Sure when they see it - they'd report, but holy moly, they have better things to invest free time into, like, yknow, making actual mods. In other words, if there is no way to constantly check what coorators are doing - there cannot be any kind of reward system for them. Period.
    45. Eysenbeiss
      Eysenbeiss
      • premium
      • 46 kudos
      @halgari

      Don't see at as an excuse, but there are reasons not to put a bunch of single mods into one, even though I agree, that in many cases, it could be done.

      What I wanted to point at: I first started modding out of curiosity, cause that one outpost Zimonja was always very annoying, along Oberland Station, speaking of buildable area, so I started to dig into this by using FO4edit, meaning doing it by hand or "trial and error" and boy did I make mistakes. ;-)

      After I got into this, I started looking at the other settlements, just out of curiosity and after a while, I had done an settlement expansion, areawise, for almost every possible settlement, including the Boston Airport (including workshop fix), the Mechanist Lair and some other "special" ones.

      So I uploaded them one by one at a time and after a while, I decided to create an "almost all in one" package, including those, that were mostly sought after, but leaving out the "special ones", since not everybody wanted to build there and in rare occasions, expanding the area caused minor inconvinieces.

      Now, would you ask me to take down all the single mods, or would you agree, that in this case, they all have a right to be accessed, individually, because some people like to have a BIG mansion at Ten Pines, others don't care about that place, while those might like to build their "penthouse" at the Hangmens Alley, which again other player wouldn't even want to think about building anything there ?!

      Again, I agree that there are mods that could easily and should rightfully be packaged, but that doesn't fit in any case.

      To the thread starter: Kid, you and your group, you are creating nothing, if you just package mods from other authors.
      This is a claim similar to wholesalers claiming that they procuced the goods that they are selling in family sized packages.

      @Xilandro: Gogogo, I am right behind you with that modded junk jet ;-)
    46. MibuK
      MibuK
      • premium
      • 28 kudos
      And until now, that's what made it fine. But if they remove the reward for that because they find collections cheating. You'll no
      longer have any full time curators. Just hobbyists that spend the time
      they have on the side.
      Exoclyps
      Just hobbyists?  Modding is a hobby and the best mods (and most mods) are created by "hobbyists".
      There is no need for people working full time on modding. This leads only to the same old problem that we have with most companies nowadays "how to make more profit with less work?". Modding isn't here to make a profit or a living. And I am shocked how the DP and Collections system seem to have twisted a (small) part of the community.
    47. Livelynightmare
      Livelynightmare
      • premium
      • 100 kudos
      Well, now he's whining about having 3 million downloads last month (which is obvious considering he has a billion tiny patches included in the collection) and how apparently he is the main driving force behind selling Premium subs, so it's obvious he thinks he does more work for Nexus than Nexus does. Amazing.

      Honestly, I will admit I'm jealous. I wish I could be so greedy and willfully ignorant that I could gleefully profit so much from the work of others. Shame on you, Storywealth people. Modlist developers and collection curators like us should be serving the community first, not ourselves. We're here to make modding easier for newcomers, not to cheat everyone out of money. I'm thoroughly disgusted by your behavior and by the comments I've seen from you in a few other places. I hope they burn your "patches" to the ground and you make nothing. Take my earnings as well to make it "fair" if they like, I don't mind. I'll keep working. I don't know when you twisted this into thinking it's all about making money, but you're wrong.
    48. junimods
      junimods
      • premium
      • 3,974 kudos
      @Xilandro, this comment thread has been pretty eye-opening for me as well. I've only ever made (simple, visual) mods for Stardew Valley; I don't really venture outside of that space, and I don't see these issues so much in our community. I've never looked at collections though, so maybe we do have some people taking advantage there (I only just learned about mod stuffing here as well). I just hope all the changes to the system end up being positive for mod authors who are making mods out of passion for their community/game instead of anyone abusing the system for money. Anyway, thank you for being my hero in all of these comments lol
    49. Xilandro
      Xilandro
      • premium
      • 2,548 kudos
      @junimods lmao no need to thank me, the pleasure is mine. I'm just a little voice in the crowd with a good touch of sassy behavior ;)
      @Livelynightmare damn, ur post just breaks my heart. Thank you. And I'm sure you won't suffer any consequences for their action.
    50. ElSopa
      ElSopa
      • premium
      • 4,929 kudos
      Xilandro, luckily the little voice in the crown was heard and all the scammers are trembling in fear HAHAHAHAHAHA
      Edit: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA GET REKT LAZY OOOOPTIMIZERS AND OOOOOOPSCALERS
    51. Xilandro
      Xilandro
      • premium
      • 2,548 kudos
    52. darthbdaman
      darthbdaman
      • premium
      • 271 kudos
      @Xilandro can you teach me how to grill? Because this has been the best weenie roast I've ever seen.
    53. madpaddy
      madpaddy
      • premium
      • 94 kudos
      @Xilandro
      TBH I never realised Storywealth had all those separate patch pages, I can't deny his Storywealth collection is good and has obviously had a lot of time spent on it, but those patches should have been in 1-3 pages with a Storywealth patch central name or some such. Im not here to point the finger on a witch hunt but that kinda thing needs to stop. Shame as we'll now probably just end up with collections of 3-6 mods slapped together, wish there was a better way to encourage Modders and good well looked after collections that gave everyone some reward if they obviously deserve it...
    54. Xilandro
      Xilandro
      • premium
      • 2,548 kudos
      "I can't deny collection is good"

      "I can't deny cash grab made out of other people's hard work, but full of of curator's garbage files for the sake of the number to increase his income, is good"
      OK.

      Shame as we'll now probably just end up with collections of 3-6 mods slapped together, wish there was a better way to encourage Modders and good well looked after collections that gave everyone some reward if they obviously deserve it...
      What we'll end up is not 3-6 mods, but collections as they were designed from the beginning:
      With as many mods as you want, with 3-6 patches, when they are required. With cleaner setup environments, not flooded with garbo mods no one would install on their own. With far more money in the donation pool to be divided among actual creators. And with bad actors gone from the scene, or steamrolled into lowest lows where they deserve to be.

      As for the rewards - they did everything to make sure that rewards to curators aren't going to happen. With their greed they threw a solid possibility into a bleak idea that has no solutions (at least I can't think of any good one that'd work).
      So only curators that'll survive are those who are here for the sake of being here, and not for the $$$.


      But the funniest part is how sad you are about those guys not getting any more money.
    55. madpaddy
      madpaddy
      • premium
      • 94 kudos
      @Xilandro
       Wow you really are on one today everyone is getting a lashing off you, at no point did I say DP farming or mod splitting etc was ok. I even just said I hadn't realised how many loose mod pages he had, you seem to just be looking for any reason to have a fight. I do think that anyone who puts time into anything that others use and enjoy deserves a little something back, I do wish there was a way to make it fair for everyone. Don't cherry pick arguments just because you're feeling like a fight mate. Every time there is ever anything on this site the so-called community goes out the window and everyone turns on each other every time...
    56. darthbdaman
      darthbdaman
      • premium
      • 271 kudos
      Stopping the splitting is making it fair for everyone though? The leaches stuffing collections are taking an unfair portion of the DP share.

      If the new system works properly, the collections authors will hopefully now get compensated appropriately relative to the actual mod authors. Which is to say, that mod authors will be slightly better off, and stuffers will be much worse off. Splitters were previously making a lot more of their "little something" back, than the people doing the actual work
    57. Xilandro
      Xilandro
      • premium
      • 2,548 kudos
      Check my other replies to people who are actually at fault here, if you think I'm giving you lashes or trying to fight you. I sound like an arse at all times, usually and especially when I don't mean to. That's my biggest flaw, and apparently impossible to iron out. Comes with cultural and lingual differences. Ask anyone who knows me, they'll confirm. Usually I don't even realize I'm far too harsh, until somebody tells me something like "tactfulness of a bulldozer", or "blunt as a nun's...", ahem. So there's that, don't take my words as lashes. If I start calling you names - yep, that's when it's a fight.

      Anyway. I did not cherry pick anything, but addressed your post completely. Quality of that collection? Addressed. Opinion on rewards? Addressed. Whole vibe of the reply? Also addressed. How is that cherry picking? I never ripped out anything you've said out of context, haven't put words into your mouth, and didn't miss anything either. And I've noted how sad you sounded about rewards, because I found it funny. In the thread full of parasites, screaming about how they feel gaming the system is fair because they want all the money/rewards possible. You even defended them directly, multiple times. Here's one of em:
      @Exoclyps
      I for one 100% agree that people like yourself should defo get rewarded with DP
      yeee, they totally should get rewarded with even more DP than they are already getting. Oh, sorry, *were* getting =3
      Like, you've clearly been reading my posts to other people, but somehow missed the whole point.

      Every time there is ever anything on this site the so-called community goes out the window and everyone turns on each other every
      time...

      This is uncool, so very very uncool of you. Very disrespectful and full of passive aggression. And you have a nerve to tell me right in my eye that I'm the boo hoo bad guy. Uncool.
      I will address this anyway. It's not "anything", but people gaming the system being dealt with. And "the so-called community" is not "out the window" or "at each other's throats", but delivering some well-deserved kicking to parasites who exploited the system and other authors hard work, and came here fuming, full of themselves, to tell "the so-called community" how innocent, grandiose and important they are, and deserve the money, and nexus is bad for not giving it to them (anymore).

      You know what else I find funny? How in every post you try to sound like everyone's friend, disrespect people who actually make mods, then you shift the blame, and use a straw man. Sometimes all in one post. Mate.
    58. madpaddy
      madpaddy
      • premium
      • 94 kudos
      Its 100% cherry picking, you cut out a slice of a whole paragraph, and not once have you quoted that I had agreed many times that the DP farming getting nipped in the bud is a good thing, the only argument that you keep bringing up is because I still think good collections should get something. That's ALL you have focused on so don't come out with its just the way I am it's my culture because it's not it's YOU end of. I tagged you saying wow I didn't know he had all that stuff as separate mods and you totally ignored everything except the one bit that I said Its a shame we cant have a system that rewards everyone fairly, that's ALL you have picked out. Anyway, Im done nothing coming out of this is doing anyone any good...
    59. Xilandro
      Xilandro
      • premium
      • 2,548 kudos
      You said I'm cherry picking in my first reply, but I didn't. In my second reply I've used your direct words to a person who is abusing the system. It doesn't matter if you said "but" right after. You told an abuser that you want him to get rewards. It doesn't matter what else you said, but okay, here's the whole post:

      @Exoclyps
      I for one 100% agree that people like yourself should defo get rewarded with DP, I use your Storywealth and have for pretty much since you started it and as someone who has modded games for a long time and knows how difficult it can be to get hundreds of mods working perfectly together I can see with all your patches and updates how much work goes into it and the hundreds of questions people ask when they have a problem. I think it would be a great injustice if you didn't get something for your time and the extra downloads those authors get when someone like me finds they love one of their mods in your collection and then downloads more of their work...

      People doing two-second upscale or recolouring a pair of gloves and making a new page yes that kind of stuff needs to be stopped, but some of those collections have a lot of time and effort put into them and are well maintained, maybe a system where if the collection gets no updates or changes after a set time they then stop getting DP or the DP they get auto goes to charity...

      There is no need for cherry picking what can be said simply as "defending the abuser", hell, man, you're literally kissing his lower back there. And then you instantly shift the blame "but those other guys doing AI, yeah, they're so bad!" Am I cherry picking from a whole paragraph now? Mm? Should I keep getting onto every single post you've made here?


      Fine. He said she said let's go

      Spoiler:  
      Show


      I disagree, Exoclyps puts a lot of time and effort into his collection and if you looked at it he has made patches for lots of mods in it so they all work together, maybe the DP system needs a tweak for collections but there should 100% still be a DP reward. The problem is once you start down the who is and isn't worthy road there's no end, because there will be people say your mods or another mod isn't "mod" enough, your mod only took 2 weeks to make mine took 6 months and on and on it goes. Yes the mod splitting and the taking open perm mods and doing a 1 minute upscale etc is bang out of order and needs sorting. But just because you, me or anybody thinks another mod isn't mod enough isn't a road I think we need to go down. I would say the 3 million boob mods are not really mods but when thousands download it obviously plenty would disagree, that's not to say there are no crap collections that are obviously some that are a DP grab, but the good ones have had a lot of time spent on them and still do...
      "Exoclyps this, exoclyps that, should get rewarded" mate you're in full defense of a guy here. What are you, his guardian angel or something? Then you jump into deep philosophy how it's a one way road with no end, if somebody is going to decide who's worthy of a reward and who isn't. This is called false dillema. Manipulation as it is. Because, friend, you're writing this in the same post where you're saying out loud an abuser and a leech deserves a reward. And it's a not "one way road with no end". People who try to exploit the system - don't deserve to be rewarded. It's as simple as that.
      Okay, next. Imaginary people saying about 2 weeks of work vs 6 months and made up "on and on and on". Just stuff pulled out of thin air for the sake of an impactful argument, exaggerating what's being said to abusers. "One click AI mods" and "low-effort mods to maximize the profit" - that's what is being said. So don't twist it, and don't make stuff up. How about that? Because in the very next sentence you contradict yourself and use actual valid point about AI and low effort mods, that you used in a twisted way in a previous sentence. Again, in defense of an abuser. "Needs sorting". Of course it does. Good job, you said what is being done, but shame it's being said in the same, again, post, where you lick bad guy's boots. Do you understand why it doesn't matter what "good" you said? And why I chose to ignore it? No? Because it makes no sense. Constant contradiction. Make up your mind.
      Next, 3 million boob mods you think are not really mods, and point you're trying to make with it that not all collections are bad just because some people say they are bad. Or "not really mods", and you again, contradict yourself, because by "THE GOOD ONES" you are implying Exoclyps. That's the only possible valid conclusion people can make based on your awe of the guy and his collection.
      Also, nice blame shift at "bad collections DP grabs" again, and boobs mods = obvious straw man. And also indirectly belittling other people's work, which you bashed just a moment ago. Damn boi.



      JennaJuffuffles 100% agree with you I don't understand why people think it's just clicking a few mods, yes there are some do that but the better curators' collections are a huge time sink and if anyone knows about modding knows how hard and time consuming putting hundreds of mods to work together is. Before collections I would go months without playing because the thought of redownloading and troubleshooting making bash patches etc was a major put off, now I download a collection as my base with everything it needs to work and then maybe add a few of my personnel favourites 2-3 hrs tops to do what took me weeks or longer...
      Jenna has sided with abusers, you jump in to 100% agree with her. So do abusers, all happy nodding and waving "yes yes yes! GIB US MONE". Then you theorize what is hard and what isn't, and that modders know how hard it is. Yes, it is hard. But that wasn't a problem nor an argument to begin with, so why are you so overfocused on "making patch is sooo haaaard" in a thread where the problem is - having dozens of stuffed mods, and specifically exploitative way of creating patches? Lmao. Again, you 100% agree with a person who says stuffing is okay-ish because poor collectors aren't rewarded, and says these people are what drives users to the nexus. And not even for a moment she nor you address the fact these people would keep stuffing even if they had DP from collections downloads themselves (like authors do). More than that, those leeches said out loud *it's their "job" "full time work" and "main source of income", in other words they'd exploit exploit and exploit, max money, as much as possible. It was never about a cool hobby with a posibility of some reward, no. Only pure bucks. You also very much like collections. That's good. It's a good feature. Abused to hell, but that's what is being addressed as we speak.




      Its 100% cherry picking, you cut out a slice of a whole paragraph, and not once have you quoted that I had agreed many times that the DP farming getting nipped in the bud is a good thing, the only argument that you keep bringing up is because I still think good collections should get something. That's ALL you have focused on so don't come out with its just the way I am it's my culture because it's not it's YOU end of. I tagged you saying wow I didn't know he had all that stuff as separate mods and you totally ignored everything except the one bit that I said Its a shame we cant have a system that rewards everyone fairly, that's ALL you have picked out. Anyway, Im done nothing coming out of this is doing anyone any good...
      You haven't agreed DP has to be nipped many times. You haven't agreed to it at all, not even once, at least not in posts I can find. You mentioned that, I quote, "1 minute upscale etc" mods need "sorting". IE dealt with. You also used "etc", obscuring the fact that the guy you are supporting is the "etc"! Maaan oh man.
      Only other thing you said directly about some solution - that maybe DP shouldn't be awarded when collection isn't being updated for a long time (or autotransferred to charity). And otherwise - collections should get rewards. Especitally Exoclyps. OMG Exoclyps uwu.
      In your latest post, AFTER you accused me in cherry picking, you said money part of DP should be removed. But I'm very sorry, you cannot retroactively blame me in ignoring what didn't exist at the time of you making "cherry picking" argument.
      Okay continuing with the post. Now you're blaming me in focusing on a single thing that you want collections to get rewards. I'm not. I'm focusing on you defending a parasite, saying that omg exoclyps deserves to be rewarded =) And that I'm ignoring what you've said, that you didn't know. Am I to believe it, in a thread full of people screaming "look at this guy wow, shame on you exoclyps", under a news post that literally is addressing this exact issue =D
      Again, you clearly have been reading my posts (you confirmed it by expressing your knowledge of me "lashing everyone off"), so it is 100% safe to assume you've been reading posts other people wrote. So you've seen it all. How much attention you've paid - that I don't know. But with all the word twisting, manipulations, some good dose of lies - ye mate, how about no.


      Please do let me know if I cherry picked something and missed an important part.

      p.s. you can accuse me in anything you want but I won't reply in another 8-12 hours, and when I do - it won't be with a long post, because this went way too far already. So please don't expect swift response or another essay.
    60. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      @Livelynightmare

      Was out yesterday so didn't see your comment until now. And I suppose this is directed to more than you.

      I agree that I could for sure have done a better job bundling a few of my mods, but those "PreVisibines" or similar mods equal perhaps 10-15% of my total count. Most of my mods actually do provide fixes or features that anyone in the community can benefit from.

      And you'll also notice that I already bundle a lot of stuff, but kept things somewhat separated as it made life a lot easier. 
      Like the "StoryWealth F4SE" Settings modpage. It gives non-collection users also access to use the specific settings. Heck the one that was made by Martend way back has over a 1000 endorsements and many non-collection users sharing comments there.

      So it's not that I split things up for the purpose of just pushing the count. For example my latest Backpacks compatibility patches I actually bundled into a "eXoCompat" page, and this was before the DP change. And this wasn't the first mod I did the same.

      In the end the reason I have this massive count of mods is not due to me trying to "farm the system", but rather because people in the collection kept reporting issues on old mods that needed fixing. And this is not something you could reasonably expect someone to bundle together as that doesn't really make sense. It's just turning into a thing because of the high traffic the collection is getting, which I agree was insane due to the show.

      To clarify one thing. I never expected to see the high amount of traffic from the show, nor did I realistically believe that I deserved the amount of DP that all those downloads would have brought me in the old system. What I'm mostly trying to say here is that my high amount of mods is less about me trying to cheat the system, and more about the fact that I spent the last 2 years, in what could be considered full-time work (probably more as I'd often spend 12 hours a day, every day) amount of time on patching and working on the collection.
    61. Obicnii
      Obicnii
      • premium
      • 1,191 kudos
      @Exoclyps
      What I'm mostly trying to say here is that my high amount of mods is less about me trying to cheat the system, and more about the fact that I spent the last 2 years, in what could be considered full-time work (probably more as I'd often spend 12 hours a day, every day) amount of time on patching and working on the collection.

      This is something only people that don't do modding can believe.
      You have 744 mods in your collection. 109 of those are your "Patches".
      BRO you stuffed in not 10-15 mods but 109???
      For every single download a mod author gets, you get 109x more
      Let that sink in
    62. Livelynightmare
      Livelynightmare
      • premium
      • 100 kudos
      Magnum Opus has been out for almost four years (in September). It has over 240 custom patches. I’m usually on support for 6-10 hours per day (while I occasionally make YouTube videos and spread managed democracy). 

      How many of those do you see as individual mod pages on Nexus?

      I’ll wait while you count, and in the meantime, I rest my case.
    63. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      @Obicnii @Livelynightmare
      Have you guys reviewed the kind of patches/mods I make?

      They are mostly for individual mods that others not using the collection also regularly benefits from. As I said before, maybe 10-15% I could have bundled better, but beyond that it'd would have just made it harder for the user to find it.

      I had multiple users tell me in the Collective Modding discord that they appreciate that I keep my patches available for the individual mods that they patch for, rather than a "bundled StoryWealth fixes" or similar. There is many other mod authors who do similar approach there on how they release their patching, because it makes sense.

      The problem here arose because there is no reason for me to patch for something that is not included in the collection, so makes sense that I'd add most of my mods. And this wouldn't have been any issue to being with if it wasn't for the fact that A StoryWealth ended up getting insane amount of traffic during the Show Rush. If there was 10 other lists sharing the popularity and A StoryWealth would have had a smaller share no one would have batted an eye here.
    64. hrodeberht1
      hrodeberht1
      • premium
      • 214 kudos
      "It's only a crime because I got caught" -Exoclyps
    65. Livelynightmare
      Livelynightmare
      • premium
      • 100 kudos
      I guess you’re right. I should’ve spammed all my method patches and milked these people for every penny before this crackdown. Joke’s on me. 

      I’d also be remiss if I didn’t point out we are in the exact same boat. I believe I had a 7500% increase in traffic in a single day - I’m sure you experienced the same, likely more. And I quite literally celebrated your collection and streamed it myself, saying I had a good time with it and I honestly expected it to be far worse. You were there, remember? I actively want us all to succeed. This isn’t about you, or me, or any specific person. You’re merely a contributor to the problem, and I’m glad to see an upcoming solution. 
    66. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      I still don't believe I've done anything wrong by sharing my patches on Nexus and then proceeded to add them to the collection. Each patch did something to improve the collection in regards to some specific mod, and each patch has was a patch that others could have use for.

      @Livelynightmare, for example, what's the difference between my patches and say your Typo Patches? Heck, in the mods I fixed typos I also fixed a bunch of other things as well, that the end user would be able to benefit from. Or should we take the SS2C2 - 3DNPC Patch? I've done a dozen similar patches. Should I have not shared those on Nexus?

      And I quite literally celebrated your collection and streamed it myself, saying I had a good time with it and I honestly expected it to be far worse. You were there, remember?
      And yes, this is partly due to me tirelessly patching the collection to make it all work nicely together. A lot of the small tidbits you found, like how Depravity first battle encounter didn't set you up for life with gear. All touches like that is stuff I've shared on Nexus. Should I not?

      I don't think I did anything wrong with these patches (except for the few I admit I could have bundled better, but again, that's a very small percentage). Which I then proceeding to add to the collection.

      Like my "StoryWealth World - PreVisibines" for example I admit I could, and probably should, have bundled together with some other stuff. But these are just a few mods speckled in there.
    67. Obicnii
      Obicnii
      • premium
      • 1,191 kudos
      @Exoclyps
      Let me put it in perspective so people understand a bit better.
      Caliente, a guy that made CBBE, Bodyslide, Outfit studio on all Bethesda games has 9.4 mil unique downloads.
      You have over 10 million. Must be superb patches im sure!
    68. Livelynightmare
      Livelynightmare
      • premium
      • 100 kudos
      I love love love that you chose to single out the mod that’s literally linked on the SS2 wiki. 

      Have you finished counting how many mods I have on nexus that are in my collections? Shall we compare notes? 🤣
    69. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      @Obicnii You're correct in a sense here. But I feel that the main reason I'm getting smashed here is not because I made a lot of patches per say, I'm far from the only one with a similar library, but that the list which I'm managing just ended up overly popular.
    70. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      @Livelynightmare my point here with my mods is that you'd find few that you could actually argue doesn't make sense as standalone releases on nexus. The mods I pointed out of yours I did because they are similar to a bunch of mine. Why is it wrong that I release such mods, while it's fine for you to?

      Or you mean to say these are just a few of those you released and you have a lot of similar "unreleased" mods. Then my question still stands, is it wrong of me to share my fixes on Nexus in a way that's easily accessible by other mod users?
    71. Livelynightmare
      Livelynightmare
      • premium
      • 100 kudos
      Very well, let’s look at mine. I have 37 mod pages. Some of them are for my lists, yes, absolutely. Most of them are patch compendiums with FOMODs to make them easier for users. Do note that FOMODs are utterly useless for people using a collection or Wabbajack modlist, as they never see them. 

      Four are Starfield mods. I don’t have a Starfield list. one of them is even merged into the community patch now so honestly it’s useless at this point. 

      People are Strangers was made for GamerPoets because he’s bad with conditions and asked for a favor. I obliged. I don’t even use it. 

      Shroud Manor patch. I don’t use CC.

      BTI patch. Superseded by Pra’s, and he asked permission to merge my changes into his. I obliged. His is better and I’m glad I was able to help with that. 

      Shadow of Skyrim stuff. I don’t use that mod. Cool idea though. 

      Typo patches. Yeah, I can probably merge those and make a FOMOD. But that would probably necessitate a new mod page, and I don’t want to be like you. 

      The only modlist-specific thing is the Patches for Tempus, and honestly that was me being lazy. It’s a collection of patches that could be useful for everyone, but I didn’t feel like making a FOMOD with 75+ options at the time. But they’re method patches so the naming convention is easy to pick up. I should probably do that. 

      Notably absent are things akin to Storywealth Previsibines, Storywealth MCM Settings, Storywealth Balance Changes, Storywealth World patches, Storywealth Item Sorter Outputs. I can go on. Are you getting the picture yet? You’re a damn parasite. 
    72. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      Thanks for proceeding to do name-calling. Quite appalled by the reaction I'm getting here.

      As I said before, those mods are maybe 10-15% of my mods. For the Sorter Output and PreVisibines I get not releasing that as standalone (2 mods out of 109). The two, or was it 3? World patches too, sure. But the "Lighting" part of my America Rising 2 brought in quite a few non-collection downloads too. Still, that's say 5 out of 109 mods.

      I suppose I could "hide-away" my balance patches too? Or I suppose bundle them as "StoryWealth Balance Patches". I think that was 2 of them and some users actually end up using them. But lets say I hide those away as well, why give people access to my changes unless they use the collection!? But sure, 7 out of 109 mods covered now.

      I have an eXoterior Patch that is admittedly fairly StoryWealth centered, I suppose I could bundle that. So another patch, 8 out of 109.

      Then it's the "Armors Patches" or "Weapons Patches" that technically could have been made into dozen of "unofficial weapons/armors" patches I could have shared. Lemme bundle that too. 10 out of 109.

      I have my "eXoSorter Interface" that is for the collection, but I figure no one want my interface changes either with all the extra icons that you can get if you grab my sorter patches spread out on various mod pages. Lets remove that too?

      Dude, really, the amount of patches that is "StoryWealth Only" is a lot less than you make it sound like.

      Again, 10-15% perhaps. So even if we bundled that I'd still have 90-100 mods, all either standalone mods or patches for other mods out there.

      In the end, the implication I'm getting is that I'm a "parasite" for sharing my mods on Nexus so everyone can use them, instead of bundling them with the collection.
    73. Livelynightmare
      Livelynightmare
      • premium
      • 100 kudos
      Put the victim card back in your pocket and apologize to all the people you’ve been ripping off. Til then, I’m out. 
    74. RowanMaBoot
      RowanMaBoot
      • premium
      • 381 kudos
      Exoclyps - there is so much to unpack here.

      Random sampling your files, it seems most of them have a very poor view to download ratios. You've got stuff like F4SE settings, which has 154k downloads versus 36k views - that listing alone has likely raked in more in DP than many mod authors have made from actual, legitimate mods. If this was in isolation I'd say no problem -- but it appears to be a consistent issue across your files!

      It seems that whilst you protest these changes, you are case in point as to why they are needed. You should absolutely feel uncomfortable.
    75. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      @RowanMaBoot
      Why should I feel uncomfortable? I get a change was needed. I just don't feel I deserve the hate I'm getting.

      But if you disregard the download rate for a moment and look at the views alone. A mod that ended up getting 36k views, is that a mod that did not warrant being shared on Nexus? Collections themselves don't bring that many views, most of those 36k views are native views, regardless of the collection.

      Am I a bad actor for sharing that on Nexus?
    76. worm82075
      worm82075
      • premium
      • 69 kudos
      Exoclyps I just don't feel I deserve the hate I'm getting.

      Just to clear things up. You are conflating two different things. You aren't getting all this hate for an abusive practice. Fish gotta swim, birds gotta eat, you made out and now the jig is up, move on.

      No, you are getting all this hate precisely because you are here defending your actions and calling all of us stupid by playing dumb. Had you kept your mouth shut and simply accepted that the free ride is over no one would have said a GD thing to you.
    77. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      I did not call anyone stupid, and if my wording has come off as that I apologize. All I've been trying to say is that I do not feel that I acted in bad faith. I could have made my 100 mods around 250 if I wanted to abuse the system.

      Aside from a few rare cases you'll find that most of my mods are mods that any regular mod author would have released, curator or not.

      Am I then a bad actor for having added these mods to the collection? In the end, the ultimate goal was always to improve the collection, while also sharing as much as possible with the community and users that didn't use it. Now I'm bad for doing that?
    78. RowanMaBoot
      RowanMaBoot
      • premium
      • 381 kudos
      Exoclyps - I think in part folks are unhappy with you because of your tone. If it is coming across wrong, which is often the issue with any form of text-based communication, then you may need to change tact.

      Dipping into this conversation, it appeared that you were steadfast defending your benefit (rather than abuse, as I will not assume intent), of the DP system? Just in the case of that one file, you must acknowledge that is disproportionate compared to many of the F4SE and SKSE authors whom get negligible reward despite significant time and effort investments.

      Do not get me wrong - whilst I can and will certainly criticize the presence of DP collection of some of your files, the degree of config involved in the collection demonstrates that great deal of time has been put into the collection itself, especially compared to other collections that are... literally just collections.

      Regarding the views -- 36k views may have also occurred because:
      A: the file is present in a popular collection, and is likely clicked on. When it was added to the collection and first got the download spike, it likely made it to hot files (I have seen and downloaded some of your other mods because of this!)
      B: the number of downloads means it will appear under certain categories or search criteria, as I assume download and endorsement counts are the most common sorting methods
      C: You have many files, and many folks will click through the items created by other authors
      D: The endorsement rate is exceeding low as well, about 0.2%
    79. DankRafft
      DankRafft
      • premium
      • 1,160 kudos
      Exo, I feel the urge to chime in here since some of your latest statements rub me the wrong way. They sound like you consider yourself the victim while all of your actions were for the greater good, the community. If so, then please explain what exactly were your selfless intentions when you copied two of my mods in their entirety (baring a couple of personal tweaks) without permission and having DP enabled for those files?

      After I found out about the first instance I contacted you directly and we got that resolved without bringing in moderation. Back then you apologised and claimed you wouldn't do it again. Remember? I made screenshots of that conversation just in case you somehow would forget about your words at some point.
      In the second case I was made aware of some oddities with one of your files by another user. The mod in question I stopped working on earlier and instead provided another author with permission to maintain my work. You copied that mod as well. And you got contacted by the author I gave permission to. You apologised to that author as well and claimed you acted in good faith because you misunderstood the implications of the specified permissions - I know that because the other author shared your conversation with me. Weird, that sounds like you somehow already forgot about our conversation caused by exactly the same behaviour on your part at that point.
      The funniest part was that you contacted me shortly after and told me that you decided to include one of my new mods, which was the continuation of the one you copied, and made it sound like this was because of the great new features - and totally not because you were forced to remove your stolen version of it.

      You talking about all your good intentions here kinda feels like a kick in the teeth. What was the "greater good" in those actions? To me that appears like you don't wanted to share DP with another author and instead keep the DP that author would have gotten for yourself. And you tried again until you got caught a second time. Now I kinda wonder if there's something else "interesting" that could be found in your files, that isn't your own work that you haven't gotten permission for.
    80. Livelynightmare
      Livelynightmare
      • premium
      • 100 kudos
      Damn Dank, comin in and throwin down hard. Respect. Sorry you had to deal with that though, that sucks. 

      I did also notice a Keep Radiants in the Commonwealth mod, which struck me as odd because there’s already like three of those on Nexus, so why make your own if not to soak up that sweet sexy DP? Really no reason not to use an existing one. Granted, it’s just adding one condition, so it can’t really be “owned” by anyone, but still. Odd. 

      But I admit I didn’t look through many files, just the first twenty of so. Didn’t care that much. Still don’t. 
    81. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      @DankRafft When you put it like that it does indeed look bad for me. 

      In my defense both instance was very early before I became curator of A StoryWealth and did happen around the same time. It was still something that was very badly done on my end and I did not and have not done anything the sort since. Nor was neither done in an attempt to "get a quick buck" as both cases was part of bigger patches that was already being used by the collection. (So I did not gain any extra DP from those mods) Doesn't make it any less worse, just don't want it to look like I went to "lets see what I can grab some from". Because that was never the case there.

      Anyone is free to question any of my mods and I'll more than happy to clarify. 

      If you mean your WOP Patch version of the same mod, we added that because the script injection of the mod was a feature many users was excited to see. So I was happy when we could include that and ECO while keeping things optional for those that prefer a more lore-friendly approach.
    82. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      @Livelynightmare I released Keeper of the Commonwealth because I wanted a version of the mod that didn't require editing Locations.
    83. GlennCroft
      GlennCroft
      • premium
      • 72 kudos
      Xilandro, I want to let you know that you are a national treasure and one that needs to be heard by more people.
    84. KordenBallas
      KordenBallas
      • member
      • 1 kudos
      Exoclyps

      Let's stop trying to disguise this as something other than what it is : Greed.

      You guys are the sole responsible for this mess and instead of changing a system that was working, Nexus should have singled you out and told you to cut the crap and stop these blatant abusive practices.

      Let's take a look at the biggest collections out there just as a case study :

      - Storywealth : 110 mods from the Curator
      - Constellation (Skyrim) : 137 mods from the Curator

      (In comparison 2077v2 has barely a couple dozen so I would cut him some slack because it's nothing compared to the other two aforementioned and even if the mods themselves look low effort and are probably only used in those collections, it looks fairly harmless.)

      By stuffing your Collection choke-full of your crappy 2-minutes patches instead of making a patch-hub (Because yes, you can add multiple files in a single mod page and use several of those individual files in a Collection, amazing right?), what you're essentially trying to tell us is that your "work" in cobbling together other people's stuff is worth 110 times or 137 times the value of each individual mod that is used in your Collection. That's just absolute nonsense... I know people have a very high opinion of themselves but at this point you should just be ashamed...

      I don't care the amount of support you're providing, your Collections would be nothing without the work of the Mod Authors and yet you're telling them that their work have less value than the service you're providing. If we consider the amount and quality of all the mods in these Collections, a low-ball estimate of the man-hours poured into all these mods would be more than several 10K hours, we could probably reach a 6-digit number pretty easily. You're going to tell us that you, by yourself, in about 3 years, have been doing as much work, wait sorry... 110 to 137 times the amount of work that those mod authors have? Damn, you must be super-human and able to bend time and space, what are you even doing curating Collections?

      So far 1 DL = <a fixed amount of DP> varying every month, no matter what the mod is, no matter if the mod took 5 minutes of work or 1000 man-hours. Authors are getting the same value for every download across the board. Is it fair? Not really, but work cannot really be quantified in this context so that's the best we've got...

      By generating a huge amount of useless downloads (10M+ are you serious?) what you're accomplishing is the dilution of the value of those downloads for EVERYONE on the site. By trying to get a bigger piece of the pie you're making the slices smaller and smaller for the people that are actually creating content. That's inflation 101, by printing money, you're de-valuating the currency for the rest of us. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out, history is full of examples and there's really no excuse or justification for what you've been doing, just admit it was all about greed.

      Do you deserve compensation for the value your Collections are bringing to the community? Absolutely, the traffic that the Collections brought up should never be understated or put into question. Should you get 100 times the amount any individual mod in your collection is getting? It sure as Sh*t should not...

      I've been around some Collections Discord for a while now, and let me state a couple things about what's transpiring that a lot of people may not even realize :
      - Collections users don't give a crap about the Mod Authors : You as the Curator are the figurehead for everything you're using, 99% of these users don't have the time or could be bothered to go check out individual authors pages, find their Patreon, or even endorse their mods. What it means is, you're getting the Patrons, the Kofi, the Endorsements and accolades, in their minds you may as well have created all the mods on that list because they do not care... And I'm pretty sure those gains that you make from that and the Mod Authors don't, are kept for yourself...
      - Let's not pretend you're the only one providing support here, most of the big Collections have a lot of volunteers providing support in the curator stead. Those people are not paid to do so... Most of the time they're even the ones paying you on Patreon or Kofi! I mean, it's free labor, it doesn't get any better than that. And whenever you're mentioning the work that your "Team" is doing, what is that "Team" even getting out of this? I'm pretty sure they are working for free as well, which you would be more than happy to exploit. Unlike you, volunteers are not in it for the money, they help because they like what you made, so as a courtesy to them, let's not pretend that you're doing this all on your own while still being the only one profiting from it the most.

      In the end, the modding scene is like any other part of the modern society where the Marketing Guy gets all the glory while the Tech People are getting scraps. You're either Jobs or Wozniak. And yes, you guys are the Marketing people, always using other people's talent for your own personal gain.
    85. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      @KordenBallas All I can ask you, have you even looked at the mods I provide? Sure it's not 100 quest mods, but lot of them sure took time and effort to make. They are however not "2-minutes patches", of that I can ensure you. (Okay, might have a rare few of those too, which I mixed feelings about releasing tbh, but the same time they are fixes that do benefit non-collection users too. Don't tell me I shouldn't have released them in a way that's easily accessible just because I happen to be a curator.)

      In the end, that's the thing with pretty much all my mods. They are not gobbled together excuses to "farm dp", they are actually mods or patches that any mod author could have released.

      Also 4m of those downloads are since the Fallout 4 show. Can't blame that one one me, can you? So 40%+ of my downloads are gonna be covered under the "new DP system".
    86. DankRafft
      DankRafft
      • premium
      • 1,160 kudos
      @Exo:
      [...] both cases was part of bigger patches that was already being used by the collection. (So I did not gain any extra DP from those mods)
      True, but DP comes from a finite pool that is distributed percentage-wise. So, by your chosen behaviour you did two things:

      • You have robbed other authors of the DP they would have received if you had added their original mods (instead of simply copying them).
      • And due to the finite nature of the DP pool and not increasing the unique download figures of the original mod authors (you copied from) you indirectly influenced the figures in your favour because every portion of the DP pool that doesn't go to another author has the potential to go into your pocket instead. I don't think that those two cases made that big of a difference in the grand scheme of things but I wanted to clarify that regardless because it is still exerting an influence on the system, whether it is intentional or not.

      And I could also name at least one author whose permissions set for their mod you ignored and made DP off of (and disabled hesitantly after being contacted about it) as well. I won't provide names here because they don't want to be mentioned. I agree, that definitely doesn't look good.
    87. Skinwalker21
      Skinwalker21
      • premium
      • 658 kudos
      Im sorry theres alot of people who dont look at them the way as you do. Ive seen how mod collections are done and as a mod author myself who does everything from scratch, I must say it takes a ton of effort, and such tremendous amount should be rewarded, not penalized. I dont really agree with the direction either and it is worrying. 
    88. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      @DankRafft You're making it sound like I was copying high and low, this was never the case. There was these two mods, of which parts was admittedly included into a bigger "StoryWealth Patch", before I became curator. Modifications that I didn't benefit any extra DP from and which I also corrected. And as I said, something I've never done again. It was something that happened around of my first mods, mistakes done early in my modding days here.

      Also to clarify, what happend with that one patch was that for the StoryWealth patch balance was heavily tweaked to the point that much of the mod was no longer the same. The bad call to merge the rest into the patch was made due to a misunderstanding on the "free to modify and improve on" permissions. I even left credits on my mod-page for it, so it was not like I tried to hide anything there.

      And I know what mod you refer to with the DP. I didn't use any assets from their mod, it was used a master requirement for mine, however I did respect their wishes when they contacted me.
    89. Livelynightmare
      Livelynightmare
      • premium
      • 100 kudos
      Again, as a modlist dude myself, I absolutely recognize how much time and effort it takes, and I do disagree with Xilandro about the amount of effort goes into maintaining and doing support for a collection. 

      Having said that, I also fully realize that modlists and collections are fully piggybacking on work created by others, and as such, people like Exoclyps and myself and countless others really don’t deserve nearly as much as we get. 

      For reference and transparency, my last payout was 87,xxx points (I forget the exact amount even though I just looked, but I’m on my phone, sorry). I have less than a million total downloads in my nexus history - that’s about four years since I started publishing anything at all. I honestly believe I shouldn’t be making this much, and have been pretty vocal about it with my friends and other mod authors (many of whom are kind enough to disagree, but they’re wrong 🤣).

      Exo, I saw you said you had 3 MILLION downloads just in APRIL. How much you making, homie?
    90. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      As I mentioned a bit up, 40%+ of my current download is since April, which is under the new system. Which is also why I kinda get the system change, even if my initial reaction came off as quite negative.

      So it's not near as much as those numbers would suggest.
    91. Livelynightmare
      Livelynightmare
      • premium
      • 100 kudos
      Nice dodge.
    92. KordenBallas
      KordenBallas
      • member
      • 1 kudos
      Exoclyps

      Yeah, read my statement about the man-hours from other people in your Collection. In my opinion patches should not even be allowed to opt-in for DP unless they are in a patch-hub. You're basically taking two things created by other people, making them fit together and expecting to get paid the same value as each of these people. If you think you put more work or even a fraction of the effort those mod authors have put in the original mod you are delusional... In the end you're not creating anything, you're just using other people's work, why should you get rewarded the same for your lack of originality or creativity?

      Also, you are free create a bunch of individual patches and stick them in your Collection. The real problem arise when you opt them into the DP system. And that's a conscious decision on your part, YOU decided to opt them in and make a bunch of cash out of it, never considering (or not caring) what it would mean for the rest of the Mod Authors. Your freedom should end when it is affecting other people.

      And I'm not saying that the base Collection is a DP-scam, I'm saying that you're using the popularity of whatever you have created to get more than what you deserve. And that makes you a greedy little man.

      In the end you may not even be providing the best service or value, you're totting yourself as this great builder of an amazing Collection, but let's face it, you were just there first, and in the World of Collections, the #1 gets all the attention and it's really hard for anybody else to even compete. Good luck getting any traction for your Collection if you're creating one now...

      I don't really understand why you are even trying to justify what you are doing to the rest of us, nobody here agrees with you. You guys poisoned the well for everyone. But I guess as long as your bottom-line is doing well it should be no concern for you.
    93. Xilandro
      Xilandro
      • premium
      • 2,548 kudos
      Damn, Exoguy, you sure do have some serious ego, arrogance, and absolute lack of self-awareness, to come here again to argue how everyone is wrong and you're totally not a leech.
      Instead of making a clown out of yourself here, go do something good with your life. Like, idk, meditate, reflect on why being a parasite is bad, embrace mental balance, find inner peace, and a job.
    94. KordenBallas
      KordenBallas
      • member
      • 1 kudos
      Xilandro

      Those are some fine ideas, I would add that he could use this time to opt his patches out the DP system, it would take a while, after all there are so many...
    95. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      @KordenBallas as far as team goes, long-term members do benefit either by mods they made their own (not 2 minutes patches, mind me) or in some cases forwarded dp. 

      Also, I never claimed I created something great. A few of our users might have, but I didn't.

      Also, from the start I've not been against mod authors making bigger mods getting more. I agree that a mod that something patches for, deserves more than the patch.

      But I also don't feel a compatibility patch I made is any less deserving than one some other mod author made of same quality just because I'm the curator.
    96. Xilandro
      Xilandro
      • premium
      • 2,548 kudos
      @KordenBallas it's okay, nexus internally opted all his work out of DP system already (the whole news is about it lel). But he could do it himself anyway. But yknow, he has to go through all the stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and only then - acceptance. Rn tho - he's in denial.
    97. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      Yup, agreeing bigger mods deserves more DP than patches is being in denial.
    98. KordenBallas
      KordenBallas
      • member
      • 1 kudos
      Exoclyps

      What you "feel" you are "owed" is irrelevant. Comparing a low effort mod that gets a few 10s downloads to a low-effort mod that has been sneaked into a Collection that get 1000s of DL per day is like comparing apples and oranges. Your low-effort mods are piggybacking on real mods and have a real impact on the overall system, the low-effort mods that don't get downloads have a negligible effect. If you think they are the same I would refer to my previous comment : Delusional.

      Plus Nexus already determined that what you've been doing is an abusive practice and this is the whole point of this article, so instead of arguing that you are within your rights and that your actions are justified, why don't you go check out the user-agreement that is linked in the article above.
    99. Livelynightmare
      Livelynightmare
      • premium
      • 100 kudos
      I hereby vote we abolish DP and go back to modding for fun.
    100. Exoclyps
      Exoclyps
      • premium
      • 468 kudos
      I did not release my mods in bad faith. As mentioned before a lot of them are already bundled and if I wanted to push it, I could have had twice as many mods. I didn't because I did not believe that made sense and while I do have a lot of mods, my goal was never to game the system.

      Each (90%+, I'm not perfect I admit) mod serves a purpose that also benefit other users out there of they use the mod that was patched for. 

      Compatibility is not all I do, I also do a lot of bug fixing and other types of mods.

      Again, I agree that bigger mods deserves more DP than a patch, and I hope this new system does this all fairly.

      So not sure what denial you're talking about here, unless you're saying that sharing bug fixes and compatibility patches on Nexus is bad? 
    101. KordenBallas
      KordenBallas
      • member
      • 1 kudos
      Xilandro

      I'm afraid that's not what Nexus did though... We can only assume at this point but there are very few metrics they have available to determine what constitute a "real mod" and a "scam mod". My assumption is that they would use Endorsements ratio as a multiplier to determine the real value of each Download. But in doing so a lot of "Real mods" that are not made by famous authors and are getting most of their downloads from Collections would get shafted along the "Scam mods", for the simple reason that Collection users do not endorse individual mods.

      Endorsement has always been more a reflection of the size of the fanbase of an author than the quality of their content. It often goes hand in hand of course but the contrary does not apply : A barely known author will get very few endorsements because he doesn't have a following yet, does it mean is work is low-effort? Not necessarily, but a formula wouldn't be able to tell the difference. In the end it would make it even harder for new authors to make a name for themselves and even harder for them to make any money out of their efforts. Turning the incentive system into a straight up popularity contest.

      And if you thought Botnets were bad when the only metric involved was the DL, good luck preventing people from gaming endorsements, since they would require far less work to have an impact on someone endorsement ratio than it would require to download more versions of the same file...

      But those are just assumptions since Nexus won't tell us the new formula. I still think the system was fine the way it was and the few bad apples that spoiled the bunch should have been severely reprimanded instead.
    102. mkh97
      mkh97
      • premium
      • 81 kudos
      Never mind.
    103. lukaslinner
      lukaslinner
      • premium
      • 0 kudos
      Hello Xilandro!

      I generally agree with what you have commented under this news post but I do believe modpacks can be considered great works.
      If we take a modpack for Minecraft called SevTech: Ages as an example. It
      has customized and tailor made changes to the mods included in its pack
      to create an experience that is impossible to get by just installing the
      mods themselves to the point it has managed to build a small community
      of players around it.
      There is also the FTB team for Minecraft who have made their own mods to customize their modpacks further and increase the interactions the different mods have with each other.

      I won't comment on if 2077v2 has made modpacks of similar quality to those since I
      have not used any of the modpacks 2077v2 has made. However I do hope the
      modding community on Nexus can, when it comes to modpacks, reach a
      point where it is similar in complexity and interaction to the Minecraft
      modding community.

      So I think there should be a potential for rewards for great modpacks on Nexus, DP or something else, to aid in
      reaching that. Although, as people have mentioned here, that could be solved by just putting all modpack
      resources on one mod page lol.

      I remember watching DireWolf20 play his FTB modpack years back with some of the biggest, at the time,
      mod creators joining on the server all playing together. Sometimes there would be
      one mod creator talking in the in-game chat about a bug or comp issue or
      joke about their mod to another mod creator live during regular
      game-play which was funny to see xD
    104. RowanMaBoot
      RowanMaBoot
      • premium
      • 381 kudos
      Minecraft is a great example of what work can go into modpacks - those packs tend to include a lot of custom scripting, configuration, even extensive tailor-made mods (written in Java) to bridge compatibility and content and much more. Many of them take months to create.

      However, Skyrim/Fallout is a very different in that they feature a lot of natural conflict resolution. As most players know from building their own Load Orders (as is the staple of the Nexus community), it isn't rocket science.
    105. lukaslinner
      lukaslinner
      • premium
      • 0 kudos
      Skyrim/Fallout is a very different in that they feature a lot of natural conflict resolution. As most players know from building their own Load
      Orders (as is the staple of the Nexus community), it isn't rocket
      science.
       RowanMaBoat Of course, you are right about that.

      I find it fun to go into the geck/creation kit and xedit and muck about with the mods to make them work correctly or change them to my liking. I wonder what percentage of mod users find that fun. 0.1% maybe lol xD
    106. Remuchiii
      Remuchiii
      • premium
      • 22 kudos
      modlists, patches and ai generated content should not earn any dp
    107. Siberpunk
      Siberpunk
      • premium
      • 1,080 kudos
      Crush the collection-stuffers.
      See them driven before you. 
      And hear the lamentations of the DP farmers.
    108. toostruus
      toostruus
      • premium
      • 608 kudos
      @Remuchiii

      Depends on the patch. Patching can be a ton of work. Patches released can split the DP earning to original authors too.
    109. pintocat
      pintocat
      • premium
      • 236 kudos
      Thread over. This is all anyone needs to see. A collection of minor patches making more than the premier boob mod for beth games?
    110. ElSopa
      ElSopa
      • premium
      • 4,929 kudos
    111. cVcNEX
      cVcNEX
      • supporter
      • 246 kudos
      Nexusmods wanted collections to be a popular entity, incentivizing there creation by including a cash payment in the form of DP. No DP, no collections.But the physical cost of releasing this collection platform had such a tsunami-esque effect on the mod authoring community. Now we are here. Was it worth it? I get it, wakkawobbleybobbly was using the API without site hits. Nexusmods was basically a file server. Could it have been handled a lot better? Of course.

      note to OP
      You need cash for tools? B******s! The tools to make a collection are free
      You spend a lot of time curating content? B******s! Putting a collection together takes less than an hour
      You want to make life easier for users? B******s! You're in it for the cash

      But hey, touché, fleece the mod authors for as much as you can
    112. phinix
      phinix
      • supporter
      • 233 kudos
      Respectfully, Mod Collections should not earn DP - especially if they are not your mods. Collections are great, but putting together a list of great mods should not be enough to profit off another modder's work.

      DP should always go 100% to each separate mod.

      100% agree. Most popular mod list curators are already double-dipping from social media profits hyping other people's work. It gets to the point where the financial incentive for the people actually making the content everyone else is working the system to profit off from minimal effort comparatively (making mods requires much more time and knowledge investment than making a list and talking about it on YouTube) is effectively nil.

      Too many people take modders for granted as just those slaves who do s#*! for free because "hobby love blah blah."

      Again with respect, but also entitled to my opinion which is that mod collections was the worst thing ever to happen to the modding community. It creates a toxic platform for people to game the system and directly harms mod authors by siphoning incentive from the people actually making the content. Furthermore it fosters a system of quasi-piracy where mod authors effectively have no say in how their creations are used, while benefits are funneled away to social media personality cults who make lists.

      Nexus created this problem. I very much doubt they are serious about fixing it.
    113. 2077v2
      2077v2
      • premium
      • 182 kudos
      cVcNEX 

      note to OP
      You need cash for tools? B******s! The tools to make a collection are free
      You spend a lot of time curating content? B******s! Putting a collection together takes less than an hour
      You want to make life easier for users? B******s! You're in it for the cash


      • The tools to create what I have created have cost me upwards of $1300 so far.
      • Spend an hour putting together one of my collections from scratch.
      • I have spent 5 times more $ than the dp I have received since I started creating collections.

      Go create a collection and offer everything I do and lets see how you go.
    114. hierocles
      hierocles
      • premium
      • 0 kudos
      To provide a perspective of a non-modder, this attacking of Exo is missing quite a big point: many of the mods included in a collection would not be downloaded otherwise. Nexus has very poor discoverability. Downloading more than a handful of mods is also complicated for a consumer, given the incompatibilities. Mod authors, whether they like to admit it or not, deeply depend on modlist and collection creators. Collections are, at the end of the day, just an evolution of modlists that Nexus purposefully promoted.

      For StoryWealth in particular, I recently downloaded the collection for a new playthrough of Fallout 4. For previous playthroughs, I used The Midnight Ride. Before that, I downloaded only very popular mods that explicitly stated their compatibility with each other. If not for the StoryWealth collection, I wouldn't have even known about any of the mods that aren't in the top 50 downloaded mods for FO4. I'm a pretty average end-user here, so you can bet that the average person downloading mods is the same.
    115. 2077v2
      2077v2
      • premium
      • 182 kudos
      hierocles You are correct mate but many will disagree. I have included Mods in my collections that would have never been noticed otherwise.
    116. ElSopa
      ElSopa
      • premium
      • 4,929 kudos
      I have included Mods in my collections that would have never been noticed otherwise.
      lmao this got ridiculous, cant wait for this behavior to be vanished from the site completely
    117. AlyLovelace
      AlyLovelace
      • premium
      • 48 kudos
      A proper collection and/or Wabbajack list will need patching, said patches generate DP for the MA/Collection Author/Preferred Term and is included in their list so generates DP when the list is DL'ed. Any "proper" list will need patching to make things run smoothly, so if you aren't mod splitting/whatever to game the system collection authors would still see benefit, no? I prefer WJ personally though, and pretty sure they don't allow monetization of list specific files for this reason.

      Why would the list itself also generate DP? You're already being incentivized as much as MA's are (debatably more, but that's a different {though related I suppose} argument).
    118. CrEaToXx
      CrEaToXx
      • premium
      • 334 kudos
      Yeah. Also, users really need to understand that "curating and collecting" really isn't the same effort, if we have to talk about effort. I technically "curate" and "built collections" every time I buy a new computer, or been away from a game for longer periods of time and have to rebuild my games modlist. Sure, parts you can automate in the process, but since mods would update with the game it's more sane and safe to rebuild a mod list every once a year or so. So you can tell I'm actually doing this quite a lot. And well, for making a somewhat decent and stable mod list I have to research and get myself informed on up to date info, which is technically the same as "curating", only I don't upload or share that information. But the process is pretty much the same.

      For me personally the effort is actually quite low in comparison to, for example, creating mods, because, of course, I've gained a significant amount of experience since I started using/building mods for the very first time. So you can tell I know my way around how to set everything up to increase the speed of workflow. In contrary me trying to decently build a modlist, patching it with xEdit, repacking archives and other stuff to make it more efficient, most of the collections on The Nexus are wildly slapped together personal favorites(Skyrim FO4 etc.), and then a random description slapped on it with often wrong, outdated and/or missleading information, it's not even worth considering in comparison to learn the craft to build your own custom mod list.  You know, "give a man a fish and he has something to eat for the day, teach him how to catch the fish, and it lasts a lifetime". It benefits virtually anyone in the community not to treat users like they are a six year old child.

      I actually believe that the very reason why you do not want to use collections, is because they help to drag down quality in general, only to comfort users(but unfortunately not content creators) and make things more easy for them. And this is wrong on so many levels, specially if a major fraction of the community are teens needing guidance. And yes, despite any "loyality" nonsense, the whole situation is often quite unfair in regards to authors.

      On the topic of "quality" and how everybody starts getting stressed out because they feel like literally The Nexus ordered them to rebuild their mod pages, and merge smaller mods. One thing you have to consider here is, this whole thing is a hobby. What is the difference to an obligation or a job? Well, first, I don't get money for doing it, which is actually only partially correct, but much more important, second, I can step away from it and return whenever I want. There is no obligation whatsoever. The moment The Nexus starts to make it an obligation to raise the "quality" of content, or you feel obligated to do it because of any form of self imposed pressure, it loses some of its hobbyist nature and drifts towards an actual job. And if it is my job to raise the quality of my content, then you have to pay way more than you currently do.

      So. What I'm going to do in future is DP opting in every tiny and big content I'm building, and spend all the DP every now and then to users that I feel need more support. There are tons of under the radar content creators, or creators that have a relatively high effort, but low popularity and in return low download counts, in comparison. I will also continue to make patches as I see fit given the fact what we are doing with modding games is actually quite similar to "patching" the games. None of the gaming companies has yet asked me to request permission to "patch" their games. In fact Bethesda encourages you to do exactly that by providing tools. And as far as I can tell none of the authors that I made patches for, has provided me with anything other than their content. "Quit pro Quo". 

      In my defense, there are only few reasons why I actually create patches, or release smaller snippets of bigger packages. Some of those reasons are: patch doesn't exist yet, popular author refuses or doesn't provide patching for(often) insignificant mods, or mods of authors they don't like(you'd be surprised how many content creators are just doing, or not doing things because of personal reasons), singled out content was requested, I can't slow down my inner child ADHD enthusiasm, when I believe I have found some small but significant additions to the community, only to figure out its insignifance half a year later.

      In regards to the last reason...I guess nobody is perfect and so I ask to pardon my lack of courtesy.

      Now please allow me to return to my "obligation" of painfully trying to build mods for Red Dead Redemption 2. If you think building mods for Skyguy, FO4, or Starfield is painful, try building mods for a game that doesn't have any official tool support, continously changing tables, and the only coding available is through native measures based on hashes and hex edit finds.
    119. Tenor1411
      Tenor1411
      • premium
      • 1 kudos
      I hereby vote we abolish DP and go back to modding for fun.

      Livelynightmare Sounds good to me, but I do have one mod that managed to get me a premium membership. I'm all for giving up DP altogether, but can I keep the club jacket? Discretionary cash is at an all-time low for me right now.

      Seriously, though, I think the bigger problem is the collections themselves. While I understand the convenience they can bring, the way Nexus implemented them was a joke, and majorly contributed to the problem they are now facing. Sadly it is unlikely that collections will go away. I'd prefer ditching DP for collections specifically, but getting rid of DP entirely is an acceptable alternative.
    120. Pulskin
      Pulskin
      • member
      • 0 kudos
      Let's not drag negativity into this. Nexus is trying to improve here, right?
      Why take it personal? They started a survey to ask all of us. You are demanding they should have asked you in private? The f*#@, man? You ain't better than anyone. And stop crying about comments. Geez. Don't go outside if you cant stand being outside. People are stupid and if you post stupid things they will jump you. Easy as that.
    121. 00looper00
      00looper00
      • premium
      • 2 kudos
      "To have a collection that brings that much traffic it becomes an issues, it also means the support is quite high."
      by that definition installing mods should be paid.
      I put hours of work into getting my Skyrim running correctly with 1000 mods.
  10. YuseiYamoto
    YuseiYamoto
    • premium
    • 300 kudos
    i am very much for the idea to remove bodyslides and character presets from the mod pages. those things dont modifiy the and take away space (and DP) from geniue mod author (who makes something that does modifiy the game in any way. that could showed be moved to an separted part of the website.

    modlists authors arnt allowed to earn DP. but bodyslides presets are?? i found that unfair.
  11. Skinwalker21
    Skinwalker21
    • premium
    • 658 kudos
    Yeah prohibiting mod splitting doesnt seem to be a good idea, now youll have to bundle mods together that can easily reach 20gb, theres two ways to go about it either:

    Increase the gb limit or reduce the quality of textures for smaller file size, which wont be great. Youll just end with big mods with some features ppl dont want, the pick and choose deal with deciding what mods to use is great. 

    This does not look good. 
    1. llamaRCA
      llamaRCA
      • premium
      • 2,278 kudos
      You aren't required to do one upload. You can offer several different files on the one page. 
    2. Skinwalker21
      Skinwalker21
      • premium
      • 658 kudos
      It is required as it confuses ppl, not a good choice. Ppl dont think what they click.
    3. Zanderat
      Zanderat
      • premium
      • 203 kudos
      And having unnecessary multiple page for micro mods is somehow less confusing?  Now I am confused.
    4. Skinwalker21
      Skinwalker21
      • premium
      • 658 kudos
      Not really confusing at all, each pages pertains to a specific mod that is distinct from a another. Sperate pages makes distinct mods and features self explanatory. Unlike a single page with multiple distinct mod/features that makes it hard to decide what you should download.
    5. ChildofDragons
      ChildofDragons
      • premium
      • 22 kudos
      Then the case you’re referring to isn’t mod splitting. No one is saying you have to upload distinct mods on the same page lol. Being overly semantic.
    6. RowanMaBoot
      RowanMaBoot
      • premium
      • 381 kudos
      You can always use a FOMOD format, and compile different options inside the FOMOD - as I agree, lots of optional files is a PITA and can make it unclear what you need to grab.

      But a FOMOD allows splitting between different pages in the installation, asking the users questions, providing specific screenshots for each option and... you can also use flagging and logic to enable/disable options or automatically check stuff. Personally I love using FOMODs, and I love it when mods do, because it improves the experience tenfold.
    7. darthbdaman
      darthbdaman
      • premium
      • 271 kudos
      I don't see the problem. You can still keep your mods on separate pages, you just won't make 50x the dp by creating 50x the mod pages.
    8. llamaRCA
      llamaRCA
      • premium
      • 2,278 kudos
      It is required as it confuses ppl, not a good choice. Ppl dont think what they click.

      Multiple files on one page is common and implying people are too stupid to figure out how to download files is insulting especially since authors can remove the auto download button. Also, in the Beth games anyway, players prefer to download from a single page when possible which is why people who post multiple pages of similar mods are constantly asked to offer an all-in-one upload. No one is so impressed by any of our offerings that they would rather spend stupid amounts of time clicking on 20 pages to download a mod they'd much rather be able to get in one click. And a FOMOD is the superior way to deliver options.
    9. Zanderat
      Zanderat
      • premium
      • 203 kudos
      ^^^^This.  I honestly don't know how having multiple individual pages for each micro change or option is somehow easier than having everything nice and consolidated in either a FOMOD (best choice) or under the optional files category on the files tab.  If people are getting confused, write better install instructions.  It's irritating to have to go to multiple pages to completely install a mod.
    10. Pulskin
      Pulskin
      • member
      • 0 kudos
      Fully agreed!