Sorry in advance for the super long message to make it easier I have split it into multiple parts, this is part 2/2.
Also somewhat ironically with the game seeming to read certain buffs twice it can un-intentionally make some characters feel quite nice like with Abomination. As when attacking he gets double the normal buff giving him a significant boost of damage each attack in Beast Form. And it feels cool to see this rapid ramp up to high damage before needing to transform back. Might actually be something to look into.
That said while his beast form feels nice his human form feels a bit week. As he doesn't have any good damage in human form. And his utility isn't the best either. If his manacles had a secondary effect other than pull I think they would be a lot better. Perhaps something like marking the target. Or if they stunned blighted targets. I am not sure with Beasts Bile. I think it might be fine but I am not sure.
I just wish that there was a reason to be in human form. As so far the main reason seems to be for the self stress and normal heal. Like obviously his damage should come from his beast form. But I feel his human form should provide a reason to sometimes use it over beast form.
As a side note I do think that Slam should be able to be used from rank 1 as well. Since without someone like Shieldbreaker who can move around as they attack, he can only get Slam off once without wasting his or someone else's turn moving. Which means makes his stun trinkets become quite bad as they will rarely see a use case.
EDIT: Sorry when I posted this comment apparently my brain forgot that the reply button existed and I made it as two seperate comments instead of a reply to the first. And I can't delete this one. So I am just leaving them as they are.
Ack, I really need to figure out what's going on with that bug. It's definitely not supposed to be giving double buffs. I'm not seeing double buffs on Abomination in my version, though, only Jester.
Personally, I found Abomination's human form quite useful. Compare him to other characters: light damage + pull is totally in line with other skills' power. The armor debuff from Beast's Bile is also very useful, and gives a way to deal with heavily armored enemies without Shieldbreaker; I figure that's supposed to be its main draw, rather than the blight damage.
?As a side note I do think that Slam should be able to be used from rank 1 as well. Since without someone like Shieldbreaker who can move around as they attack, he can only get Slam off once without wasting his or someone else's turn moving. Which means makes his stun trinkets become quite bad as they will rarely see a use case.
Hm, maybe. Stuns in general are very overpowered anyway, though, and Gyll did say he disliked how spammable Manacles' stun was. I think the real point of Slam is the move forward, since when you're in beast form you want to focus on frontline damage over utility.
Sorry in advance for the super long message to make it easier I have split it into multiple parts, this is part 1/2.
I am loving the changes to the mod they all make sense. My main issue with the original mod was Houndmaster and how it felt like he just took way to long to set up. Which this mod solves really nicely. Though honestly Blackjack could likely have some of it's damage reduction removed. Due to the much lower base damage.
That said I wish he had a better stress heal. Since despite gyllgaming attempt to give each party type a stress healer, it feels like Jester is still the only truely viable stress healer. Houndmaster's stress heal feels like it is meant as an addition to another stress healer.
First off 6 heal on 1 guy if they are guarded isn't really going to be able to help them, even less so if it is a frontliner being stressed. Since then he would be tanking the attack. Then the % chance for a 1 heal on others might as well not exist for how little it helps.
Then because you can't guard yourself you can't benefit from the extra stress healing vs guarded. I think it might be better if it was the vanilla heal of 6 at max and always healed the entire group. Maybe change the the extra stress heal to a buff from Guard Dog? Either that or maybe add a stress heal over time effect.
Next is Go Fetch feels kinda to niche. As it doesn't do great damage and it's pull isn't the best utility. Maybe if it broke stealth or guard it would be better. Or if possible make it have something like Miller's Pipe/Non-Euclidean Hilt but with bleed on all enemies. So "If Target is Marked: On Attack Hit: All Monsters: Bleed (X% base) Y pts/rd for 2 rds". That way it keeps it's single target pull effect while also allowing him the mass bleed potential that Hounds Harry use to give him. Though I am not sure if that is possible. Or if it might be to OP.
That said while no fault of your own Houndmasters redesign kinda makes many of his best trinkets a bit pointless. As with Hounds Rush getting a, +75% vs Marked and +100% enemy debuff. That means something like a 25% bonus from his Crimson Court set doesn't add much extra damage.
I think the idea behind Cry Havoc is that it's one of the few mass stress heals with no restrictions. (Rallying Flare has a cooldown and Serpent Sway stresses the user.) Guaranteed 6 stress heal for everyone would be far too overpowered compared to Serpent Sway.
I think the point is that Houndmaster is a support character, so his skills don't necessarily need to be awesome all the time, especially when he gets two actions per round. Cry Havoc might not be much, but remember you're also getting a Mark or guard on the same turn, when other characters need to spend a whole turn on those things.
?That said while no fault of your own Houndmasters redesign kinda makes many of his best trinkets a bit pointless.
Yeah, that's kind of an inherent issue of Gyll's redesign. I think he said he planned to tweak some of the trinkets too at some point, but that hasn't happened.
I tried this mod recently; I like the changes you've added. However, I stumbled across an issue. When I have this mod activated, it doubles some buffs.
Here are some samples: https://imgur.com/4h7L4fn https://imgur.com/8vv7QG9 https://imgur.com/ucUNqAZ
The double buffs aren't just unique to the skills you changed, but it has happened to skills that aren't touched in this mod (like the man at arms sc). As for the class rework load order, it follows:
Yet another Musketeer Rework Mr.Pepper's Class reworks (i prefer mr.pepper's reworks. its not complete, so i have it overwrite gylls) Irin's Vanilla: Heroes Gyll's Vanilla: Ui (i tried putting this above your mod, but nothing notable) Gyll's Vanilla: Heroes Gyll's Vanilla: Flagellant Gyll's Vanilla: Sheildbreaker
I can send you my whole load order, but it's over 200 mods and a lot of manual edited and added mods. These mods are near the top of the load order. When I deactivate your mod, the double buffs disappear and the changes you made. When I activate your mod, the double buff appears again, and the changes you made are present. Mr.Peppers class rework overrides gylls class reworks without issue.
With the issue present, I'm afraid ill have to deactivate this mode for the time being. I have no clue how to fix it myself, but I tried several things, and nothing seemed to work. If you want to ask further questions, let me know, and ill do my best to help. this is truly a fantastic change to the already significant gylls class rework
That's very strange. Unfortunately, I can't replicate it myself. I assume it must be some issue with Mr. Pepper's class reworks, as that's the only one you've listed that I'm not using.
Can you show me where to find Mr. Pepper's class rework? I can't seem to find it here on Nexus.
Mr. Pepper's class rework is found on the steam workshop. Its not complete and only reworks Abomination, Vestal, Jester, Antiquarian, and Arbalest. I have solved the issue by copying the contents of this rework to the original Gyll's Vanilla: Heroes mod. I just though I would let you know
I actually did observe this bug myself on the Jester's Inspiring Tune. It sounds like it must be reading the effects of each mod twice. It should be fixable, I'll look into it.
8 comments
Also somewhat ironically with the game seeming to read certain buffs twice it can un-intentionally make some characters feel quite nice like with Abomination. As when attacking he gets double the normal buff giving him a significant boost of damage each attack in Beast Form. And it feels cool to see this rapid ramp up to high damage before needing to transform back. Might actually be something to look into.
That said while his beast form feels nice his human form feels a bit week. As he doesn't have any good damage in human form. And his utility isn't the best either. If his manacles had a secondary effect other than pull I think they would be a lot better. Perhaps something like marking the target. Or if they stunned blighted targets. I am not sure with Beasts Bile. I think it might be fine but I am not sure.
I just wish that there was a reason to be in human form. As so far the main reason seems to be for the self stress and normal heal. Like obviously his damage should come from his beast form. But I feel his human form should provide a reason to sometimes use it over beast form.
As a side note I do think that Slam should be able to be used from rank 1 as well. Since without someone like Shieldbreaker who can move around as they attack, he can only get Slam off once without wasting his or someone else's turn moving. Which means makes his stun trinkets become quite bad as they will rarely see a use case.
EDIT: Sorry when I posted this comment apparently my brain forgot that the reply button existed and I made it as two seperate comments instead of a reply to the first. And I can't delete this one. So I am just leaving them as they are.
Personally, I found Abomination's human form quite useful. Compare him to other characters: light damage + pull is totally in line with other skills' power. The armor debuff from Beast's Bile is also very useful, and gives a way to deal with heavily armored enemies without Shieldbreaker; I figure that's supposed to be its main draw, rather than the blight damage.
I am loving the changes to the mod they all make sense. My main issue with the original mod was Houndmaster and how it felt like he just took way to long to set up. Which this mod solves really nicely. Though honestly Blackjack could likely have some of it's damage reduction removed. Due to the much lower base damage.
That said I wish he had a better stress heal. Since despite gyllgaming attempt to give each party type a stress healer, it feels like Jester is still the only truely viable stress healer. Houndmaster's stress heal feels like it is meant as an addition to another stress healer.
First off 6 heal on 1 guy if they are guarded isn't really going to be able to help them, even less so if it is a frontliner being stressed. Since then he would be tanking the attack. Then the % chance for a 1 heal on others might as well not exist for how little it helps.
Then because you can't guard yourself you can't benefit from the extra stress healing vs guarded. I think it might be better if it was the vanilla heal of 6 at max and always healed the entire group. Maybe change the the extra stress heal to a buff from Guard Dog? Either that or maybe add a stress heal over time effect.
Next is Go Fetch feels kinda to niche. As it doesn't do great damage and it's pull isn't the best utility. Maybe if it broke stealth or guard it would be better. Or if possible make it have something like Miller's Pipe/Non-Euclidean Hilt but with bleed on all enemies. So "If Target is Marked: On Attack Hit: All Monsters: Bleed (X% base) Y pts/rd for 2 rds". That way it keeps it's single target pull effect while also allowing him the mass bleed potential that Hounds Harry use to give him. Though I am not sure if that is possible. Or if it might be to OP.
That said while no fault of your own Houndmasters redesign kinda makes many of his best trinkets a bit pointless. As with Hounds Rush getting a, +75% vs Marked and +100% enemy debuff. That means something like a 25% bonus from his Crimson Court set doesn't add much extra damage.
I think the point is that Houndmaster is a support character, so his skills don't necessarily need to be awesome all the time, especially when he gets two actions per round. Cry Havoc might not be much, but remember you're also getting a Mark or guard on the same turn, when other characters need to spend a whole turn on those things.
I tried this mod recently; I like the changes you've added. However, I stumbled across an issue. When I have this mod activated, it doubles some buffs.
Here are some samples:
https://imgur.com/4h7L4fn
https://imgur.com/8vv7QG9
https://imgur.com/ucUNqAZ
The double buffs aren't just unique to the skills you changed, but it has happened to skills that aren't touched in this mod (like the man at arms sc).
As for the class rework load order, it follows:
Yet another Musketeer Rework
Mr.Pepper's Class reworks (i prefer mr.pepper's reworks. its not complete, so i have it overwrite gylls)
Irin's Vanilla: Heroes
Gyll's Vanilla: Ui (i tried putting this above your mod, but nothing notable)
Gyll's Vanilla: Heroes
Gyll's Vanilla: Flagellant
Gyll's Vanilla: Sheildbreaker
I can send you my whole load order, but it's over 200 mods and a lot of manual edited and added mods.
These mods are near the top of the load order.
When I deactivate your mod, the double buffs disappear and the changes you made.
When I activate your mod, the double buff appears again, and the changes you made are present.
Mr.Peppers class rework overrides gylls class reworks without issue.
With the issue present, I'm afraid ill have to deactivate this mode for the time being. I have no clue how to fix it myself, but I tried several things, and nothing seemed to work. If you want to ask further questions, let me know, and ill do my best to help. this is truly a fantastic change to the already significant gylls class rework
Can you show me where to find Mr. Pepper's class rework? I can't seem to find it here on Nexus.
Mr. Pepper's class rework is found on the steam workshop. Its not complete and only reworks Abomination, Vestal, Jester, Antiquarian, and Arbalest.
I have solved the issue by copying the contents of this rework to the original Gyll's Vanilla: Heroes mod. I just though I would let you know