This mod is very good, but if I dare to criticize a little, for my taste it follows blindly modern action-RPG armor and dodge mechanics too much, just like many others, and this is unfortunate. I like features like critical hits with VECH, agility re-balance, spriggan, silver against undead changes etc, but armor class/dodging trade-off, chance-to-hit and similar stuff I'd like to disable.
The reason is that dodge skill *should* make armor more effective, just as in vanilla game, because dodging implies that you let the blow slide off the chainmail or armor plate. Armor doesn't reduce damage, it defends you from hits completely, in general, at least from blades. Chainmail actually is also very effective in this regard: it is not easy to pierce it, while full plate armored knight is almost invincible against direct sword attacks, unless the enemy finds a gap between armor plates. War axes and war hammers are able to damage and even penetrate armor (with the back claw or spike, for example), but it is far from easy, and all in all RNG system is much closer to how armor actually works. Why people are obsessed so much with replacing D&D system with a modern Skyrim-style system is beyond me. You don't have to be a medieval warfare expert to not expect a sword to cut through metal, after all.
I understand that some people would like to roleplay a swift Legolas who literally evades any hit with leather armor or without any armor at all, thus asking for some mods allowing that, but it's clear for me that Daggerfall devs had more down-to-earth approach in their minds. It makes sense that there is no much chance to evade a direct hammer blow no matter how agile you are, but there is a chance to let the blow slide off the plate - and this is what dodging is meant to do: to reinforce armor defence, not to provide an alternative. It would be nice to preserve these mechanics as an option at least, and not to remove it completely as if outdated.
I found the SphincterVision Attacks and VCEH combat logs were conflicting with critical hits mod. Few messages showed during a fight. After disabling Critical Hits, I was getting the appropriate combat messages.
CriticalHits is a good mod, but I feel SphincterVision Attacks does more than enough to improve the original DF crit system along with everything else it adds.
Turns out I had this mod overwritten by VCEH, and after actually playing with it flat DR feels a little bit ridiculous. I have level 8, 70 endurance, mostly elven brigandine armor (AC 8), and human enemies (default setting for their scaling) deal about one point of damage to me with their attacks.
I do run unleveled loot, but it shouldn't matter much for average enemy equipment.
Tbh I'm not sure if flat DR is that good of an idea for Daggerfall, considering how much it widens the already existing canyon gap between enemy damage.
Was kicking around this idea with shields for the longest time and messing with your improved shields reminded me of it. Tried implementing it myself but found no way to do it without overriding formulae that SVA already covers, unfortunately. Do you think changing the effectiveness of shields depending on the player's actions/state would work? Something like being in the following states prevents you from benefiting from shields, lowers their AR or gives them smaller coverage:
Attacking
Readying/Casting a spell
Struck from behind
Possible for smaller shields to be less affected by this since they're more mobile so the wielder can keep them on guard while attacking much easier than larger ones. Conversely, maybe also some variability with how body parts are targeted between melee and ranged attacks, with missiles having a lower chance of hitting hands and feet, making bigger shields much more effective at protecting against them. Either way, SVA really does a bang-up job of making the combat feel a lot more engaging. Your work is much appreciated!
I am working on having enemies be able to backstab, so that will affect being struck from behind or ambushed.
I think I can add an option to drop shield readiness when attacking/casting. Using shields already affect attack speed and any critical strike/poison strike modifiers in exchange for more protection, which is variable by how much the shield protects.
Hit location I was toying with changing the spread of body parts depending on enemy, like animals tend to hit low, flying enemies hit high along with larger enemies, etc.
I'll also be adding Monster University compatibility as that mod sets class enemies' skills based on their assignment. That'll further make class enemies more diverse in game feel, so I just have to add an option for using MU's skill overrides.
This should be loaded after Roleplay and Realism and before Roleplay and Realism: Items, if using these mods. Load this after Daggerfall Enemy Expansion.
DFU launcher yells at me for putting DEX above R&R:I. What type of conflicts I'm dealing with here, and what should I do?
have two questions about weapon damage. Do two handed long blades have +10 damage from strength and +5 from agility? And do all blunt weapons, even two handed, have +5 damage from strength?
Correct, 2 handed long blades get +10 from strength, and +5 from agility, provided those attributes are at 100.
All blunt weapons get +5 damage from strength, plus the regular strength bonus. So, a two handed blunt weapon gets +5 from strength for the governing attribute, and +10 from strength as the regular damage bonus, at 100 strength.
Could you take the daggers for a spin to test them out durability wise? I feel like with R&R + Attacks the durability might be a tad too low for daggers in particular. I tested out against human enemies with a steel dagger at level 7, even with amxed out stats and all the dagger will break very very fast at around 6-7 enemies killed only. I don't think any other weapon has this little durability hence why i'm curious what you think.
Correct, daggers and tantos have very low durability by default. Wakizashis and short swords have x4 to x6 as much durability in comparison. The way the default game accounts for condition wear is taking the full damage output of a weapon to apply to the condition. As this mod adds critical strike, and along with backstabbing, daggers can rapidly degrade. I can change that so that the condition formula doesn't include extra damage from backstabs or critical strikes, at least for short blades.
That would be a good idea! As it stands the daggers suffer from their low durability paired with critical strikes and backstabs tearing through their durability that is already low enough. Maybe up their durability a little or add a setting for it if its not so much of an issue to implement? The durability isnt too much of a problem when you add mods like the repair tools, but its annoying in general and doesnt incentivize to use daggers in general, specially since backstabs are sort of chance based still
I'll come up with something next update, I can make short blades wear down slower to balance also. That'll help as with this mod, if you focus on critical strike as a primary skill, forbid all shields, and use short blades; you can nearly reach a 50% chance to cause double damage. That'll wear daggers down extremely fast haha.
Checked out justn ow the latest update you pulled out, and everything has been an improvement thus far! Short Blades in general are waay more viable to pick, the only thing that still feels in an odd place for gameplay are daggers (and possibly tantos if we consider their durabilty the same).
Just tested out with shortblade 100, critical strike 95, agility 90, luck 51, strength 70. Vs an ancient lich and tested out a silver dagger and a daedric dagger: The silver dagger broke in 3-4 hits against the ancient lich, lol. The Daedric one can kill an ancient lich but leaves it on Slightly Used condition.
Even while having R&R + this mod, I never once had issues with durability on my weapon. Not to the extent that daggers have right now. Testing out a Daedric Shortsword just shows the results against ancient liches in particular where they die in 3 hits but the weapon doesn't move from New condition unlike the dagger, while having all the benefits of a shortblade.
Thanks for taking the time to tackle this, specially now that you released a poison mod to compliment the shortblade playstyle. Amazing work as usual Sphincter! will take it out for a test but i'm certain you nailed it if the durability is akin to the rest of them.
Hey Sphincter, love the mod. thought id pitch this idea to you and see what you thought, copying and pasting my post from Lysandus's discord:
"So, I have a feeling bethesda may have wanted locational based damage in the game like the manual there. What if, its possible to assign damage reduction based on where the monster hits the player? This would open up some randomness if the player has assorted pieces of gear on. So in my head, im thinking in event terms.
Creature rolls to hit and succeeds.,
A roll is made to determine the body part of the player.,
Damage reduction is applied based on the armour piece the player wears on that slot."
Not sure if this would fit with your idea of the mod.
Hi! That's actually how the hit system works - it rolls for a body part, and checks if the body part is armored. Just in the original game, armor only effected chance to hit. This mod changes armor rating to mitigate damage based on the armor rating of the piece of armor, and shield if the shield protects that part of the body too. This also applies to class enemies and monsters that can equip weapons and armor, however most enemies and monsters don't carry much armor, let alone a full set.
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain that, thats so cool that it transfers to enemies and monsters too. For your SphincterVision Messages mod would you consider doing a mode like verbose but add in where the player/enemy hits in terms of body parts?
If I've read your directions right, R&R: Items goes after this mod, and DEE goes before. But, DGU's built in mod manager notifies that Roleplay and Realism: Items should be loaded before Daggerfall Enemy Expansion. Should I ignore this... or, was this a misunderstanding on my end?
Also, thanks for the dope mod! Really enjoying it so far.
Hi, on the scaling of weapons: do weapons get the bonus from STR and then whatever other attribute scaling you've given them (e.g, swords scaling with AGI)? If I use this mod and used a sword, would there be any STR scaling or would I purely be scaling off AGI?
Weapons get both the overall damage increase from strength, plus the bonus of their governing attribute. So swords benefit from both strength and agility, however agility also further increases accuracy with swords too along with damage.
101 comments
The reason is that dodge skill *should* make armor more effective, just as in vanilla game, because dodging implies that you let the blow slide off the chainmail or armor plate. Armor doesn't reduce damage, it defends you from hits completely, in general, at least from blades. Chainmail actually is also very effective in this regard: it is not easy to pierce it, while full plate armored knight is almost invincible against direct sword attacks, unless the enemy finds a gap between armor plates. War axes and war hammers are able to damage and even penetrate armor (with the back claw or spike, for example), but it is far from easy, and all in all RNG system is much closer to how armor actually works. Why people are obsessed so much with replacing D&D system with a modern Skyrim-style system is beyond me. You don't have to be a medieval warfare expert to not expect a sword to cut through metal, after all.
I understand that some people would like to roleplay a swift Legolas who literally evades any hit with leather armor or without any armor at all, thus asking for some mods allowing that, but it's clear for me that Daggerfall devs had more down-to-earth approach in their minds. It makes sense that there is no much chance to evade a direct hammer blow no matter how agile you are, but there is a chance to let the blow slide off the plate - and this is what dodging is meant to do: to reinforce armor defence, not to provide an alternative. It would be nice to preserve these mechanics as an option at least, and not to remove it completely as if outdated.
CriticalHits is a good mod, but I feel SphincterVision Attacks does more than enough to improve the original DF crit system along with everything else it adds.
I do run unleveled loot, but it shouldn't matter much for average enemy equipment.
Tbh I'm not sure if flat DR is that good of an idea for Daggerfall, considering how much it widens the already existing
canyongap between enemy damage.Do you think changing the effectiveness of shields depending on the player's actions/state would work? Something like being in the following states prevents you from benefiting from shields, lowers their AR or gives them smaller coverage:
- Attacking
- Readying/Casting a spell
- Struck from behind
Possible for smaller shields to be less affected by this since they're more mobile so the wielder can keep them on guard while attacking much easier than larger ones. Conversely, maybe also some variability with how body parts are targeted between melee and ranged attacks, with missiles having a lower chance of hitting hands and feet, making bigger shields much more effective at protecting against them.Either way, SVA really does a bang-up job of making the combat feel a lot more engaging. Your work is much appreciated!
I think I can add an option to drop shield readiness when attacking/casting. Using shields already affect attack speed and any critical strike/poison strike modifiers in exchange for more protection, which is variable by how much the shield protects.
Hit location I was toying with changing the spread of body parts depending on enemy, like animals tend to hit low, flying enemies hit high along with larger enemies, etc.
I'll also be adding Monster University compatibility as that mod sets class enemies' skills based on their assignment. That'll further make class enemies more diverse in game feel, so I just have to add an option for using MU's skill overrides.
DFU launcher yells at me for putting DEX above R&R:I. What type of conflicts I'm dealing with here, and what should I do?
All blunt weapons get +5 damage from strength, plus the regular strength bonus. So, a two handed blunt weapon gets +5 from strength for the governing attribute, and +10 from strength as the regular damage bonus, at 100 strength.
The way the default game accounts for condition wear is taking the full damage output of a weapon to apply to the condition. As this mod adds critical strike, and along with backstabbing, daggers can rapidly degrade. I can change that so that the condition formula doesn't include extra damage from backstabs or critical strikes, at least for short blades.
Just tested out with shortblade 100, critical strike 95, agility 90, luck 51, strength 70. Vs an ancient lich and tested out a silver dagger and a daedric dagger: The silver dagger broke in 3-4 hits against the ancient lich, lol. The Daedric one can kill an ancient lich but leaves it on Slightly Used condition.
Even while having R&R + this mod, I never once had issues with durability on my weapon. Not to the extent that daggers have right now. Testing out a Daedric Shortsword just shows the results against ancient liches in particular where they die in 3 hits but the weapon doesn't move from New condition unlike the dagger, while having all the benefits of a shortblade.
"So, I have a feeling bethesda may have wanted locational based damage in the game like the manual there. What if, its possible to assign damage reduction based on where the monster hits the player? This would open up some randomness if the player has assorted pieces of gear on. So in my head, im thinking in event terms.
Not sure if this would fit with your idea of the mod.
Thanks for reading.
Tysm again.
Also, thanks for the dope mod! Really enjoying it so far.
Thanks!