this mod is causing lights to flicker around every second for me. using alongside, darker dungeons, better ambience and improved interior lighting. letting you know in-case this is an unintended effect of this mod, or some kind of conflict with something that tweaks lighting.
Movement Speed (A high Speed attribute can make you louder, compensate by using sneak mode and/or crouching to slow you down)
Any chance you could reconsider this? Punishing players for picking a high speed stat feels bad. It doesn't make sense to me anyway. A high Speed stat means the character not only knows how to move faster, but they can control their movement more effectively. They don't just move faster, but they can move quieter, faster. If I understand this correctly, even crouching and sneaking will only help so much, because those mechanics are based on percentages, themselves (sneaking sets your movement to 49% of your move speed).
Any way to have it based on a percentage of movement speed rather than the raw move speed value? Otherwise, maybe consider changing the crouch and/or sneak action to set a player's move speed to a raw value rather than a percentage (sneak makes the most sense, based on its purpose). It just doesn't make sense that someone with a high Speed stat completely loses control over their ability to be quiet when they want to. "Can't help it, I'm just too damn fast!"
There are other ways to make yourself quieter, like raising your stealth skill or wearing less armor. If stealth is high enough and you limit your armor, you should have no problems being sneaky, unless the opponent has very good hearing.
Armor Worn (foot armor is loudest, head armor quietest. Metal armor is much louder than leather.)
Any chance for compatibility with the Light and Medium armor rosters introduced in Roleplay & Realism?
Human enemies are given stats and skills to match their class and level.
Any chance for compatibility with popular mods that expand the human enemy roster like the Villains module from Vanilla Enhanced or the new human enemies from Enemy Expansion?
When I originally wrote the mod, the Enemy Expansion mod did not provide careers for human enemies so I skipped altering them. I will check back at some point to see if that has changed. I haven't checked the Villains module yet.
Does this mod give enemy spellcasters the ability to teleport out of a fight? Because if so, that's probably the coolest and most immersive thing I've ever seen an enemy NPC do in this game. I was fighting a group of thieves on the road, I guess because they were trying to rob me, and I struck down all of them but one, and then I see the guy cast a spell, and WOOP... he just vanished. I thought she turned invisible, so I was swinging my hammer around trying to kill her, only to realize that she teleported out of the fight after I killed all of her thief buddies. Like WOAH! That just makes sense that they'd want to escape and live after what happened in the fight.
Kuddos to you for making this mod. It's really a game changer IMO.
I can't figure out if it's this or Kab's Unleveled Spells (which this was encouraged to be used with) that's making my life a nightmare, since both of them alter enemy spell lists, but Kab's Unleveled Spells tends to even everything out, damage-wise. It's definitely this mod, because enemies stop healing when I disable it, although they do become a lot more aggressive with their offensive spells (although their magic hits for significantly less). I think when you designed the new spell lists, you didn't account for the strength of enemy spells or the health of Players, because playing any enemy that has spells is HUGELY frustrating.
I'm playing with Uncanny Always Hit, so on average, it takes me about 10 to 15 melee hits to kill a human enemy due to my beginner weapon skills (although, even with high skills, it still takes a while)... EXCEPT every human enemy also has a heal spell that FULLY recovers them (from 18% health instantly upto 95% health) and they spam it, so it takes closer to 30+ hits to kill any Rogue or Spellcaster. If that's not bad enough, they ALSO have offensive magic that deals about ~30 damage. At level one I have 37 Hit Points, so I die in two hits, and because of Kab's Unleveled Spells, even if I had offensive magic, I would be dealing only 5 damage, which doesn't ever come close to killing them. Imps are also particularly frustrating to fight, but they at least don't self heal.
I've managed to level up and train a bunch of my skills, but at the setup, it's probably easier for me to slay a dragon than it is to kill anything with magic. I've been trying to complete the same early dungeon for several hours, because every time I run into a Rogue I end up having to load my game like 50 times and hope for perfect RNG just so I can beat ONE enemy. I don't know if the spell list injection was done is permanent or not, so removing the mod might be pointless if every enemy in the game is stuck like this for my save.
This is exactly why overhaul mods should have user Settings.
First, the enemies tend to sparkle, even basic rats, like the poster down below has mentioned. What kind of effect a rat can cast on itself anyway??? It might be a side effect from Bloodfall mod, because this tends to happen only after you've hit the enemy. In fact, it might be a good idea to print in the screen log if an enemy is using an effect so that you know if it's bugged or not.
Second, this mod seems to invalidate invisibility spell completely, even the true version. Enemies still beeline straight at me, and in fact, even when I crouch in stealth mode with no armor, only with the catsuit on. I mean, I don't mind that enemies are a bit more reactive to invisibility spell, but shouldn't that be until after the first hit at least?
Also stealth is basically non-existent for me, with ~40 skill it still basically does nothing. Is it one of those cases where it has no effect until it's maxed out? I have around 140+ mods, so it might be some funky interaction with another mod, but I'm trying to load University as low in the list as possible already.
If you fail a stealth check the enemy will detect you and likely move in your direction. Invisibility won't prevent that. If they are close enough they will probably hear you moving around due to your lower stealth stealth and/or armor. A 40 stealth is useful against more distant enemies, but if you want to stay undetected up close it will have to be higher.
I'm pretty sure the sparkle thing is due to another mod. There is no code in MU to make anything sparkle.
Hmm, I see, so a failed Stealth check then. That's rough. I'll try a few more times to go full in naked with only the catsuit on to see if that makes a difference. Do you reckon a mod that merges crouch with stealth interferes in any way?
About the sparkling, I think it's some incompatibility with Bloodfall (adds sparks when an enemy is under a spell effect). I had the problem of sparkling enemies and automatically pacified (or when I hit them, I'm not sure). But the problem was solved after disabling this mod. So I'm sure that MU is incompatible with Bloodfall and Language Skills Overhaul at the moment.
Edit: Ok, now I read that the pacification when enemy health is low is a feature from this mod, the problem with language overhaul is that pacified becomes your allies and start to attack the enemies instead of running away.
thevm First, the enemies tend to sparkle, even basic rats, like the poster down below has mentioned.
WilhelmBlack About the sparkling, I think it's some incompatibility with Bloodfall (adds sparks when an enemy is under a spell effect).
I can confirm that Bloodfall is partially at fault here. I've constantly had the sparkles too, and once I disabled the "Always Blood on Hit" Setting of Bloodfall this immediately stopped. Also, the sparkles remained even after Monster University was disabled, so that's not the issue. It's just that specific effect from Bloodfall acting weird overall, but it seems Bloodfall is compatible with MU, as long as that Setting is disabled.
That resolves the sparkles for damaging enemies, but sometimes when pacified the sparkles still come back. I'm guessing the pacified state acts as a permanent enchantment or something. In which case, both Bloodfall and Language Overhaul are guilty, although I think it's mostly the latter due to it's skill checks and active pacifism. At least due to the sparkles you'll be able to spot your allies a bit easier?
This was working for me, but now the sparkles on combat hit suddenly started back up again. I'm guessing it's a weird thing with how DFU loads things, because I've had other mods that didn't have any troubles until I loaded my save during the same session, and I think that's the case here. I'll keep looking into it, though.
WilhelmBlack Ok, now I read that the pacification when enemy health is low is a feature from this mod, the problem with language overhaul is that pacified becomes your allies and start to attack the enemies instead of running away.
I can also confirm this. At first, I thought you were wrong, because by default a lot of enemies don't like each other and will attack one another on sight; enemies also tend to shift to Hostile when damaged. However, I pacified a rogue and lured a bat to their location, and the rogue immediately attacked.
Maybe in the future we'll get an option to turn off the automatic pacificism, but it's not the end of the world; just pretend the spared enemy is trying to pay you back by fighting for you. At the very least, they don't seem to follow me automatically once pacified, although you can talk to them in this state, and have them join your team without a skill check. It's not as huge of a deal as I originally thought from reading this thread, but it is annoying.
Any chance of this mod getting a Settings menu we can mess around with?
Having the option to make enemies not be automatically pacified on low health would be great, as this makes them easier, and Language Overhaul already allows something similar, which someone points out sort of conflicts. Also, maybe an adjuster for good enemies are at detecting stealth? Stuff like that.
I will add some more options next release. I need to update all my mods. What precisely do you mean regarding 'how good enemies are at detecting stealth'? Are you taking about the stealth skill check, or their senses?
I guess their Stealth checks. I'm new to Daggerfall's systems, so I don't quite fully understand all the hidden mechanics yet, but like some other people here, I've noticed that it's pretty high, although admittedly I'm still in the testing phase of my modlist, which is mostly at Lv1, so as you've pointed out before, a high Stealth might counter this, but if there's a way to adjust their detection, I think everyone would appreciate that. Nobody wants to roleplay as a sneaky guy, only to find out it's impossible to actually be sneaky.
The feature I'm most interested in though is the option to turn the pacify off and/or maybe a bar to adjust "when" they get pacified (the health percentage or whatever). If used with Language Overhaul, the automatic pacifism also automatically makes injured enemies your allies as well, without performing any skill check or interaction. I can see arguments for this being a natural thing that happens, but if it's not too much trouble, having the option to toggle that would be a great thing.
There are numerous changes in this mod, but in the absence of the sense changes I don't see anything about changing the default strafing or direct-path following behavior (besides what seems to be some code indicating that more enemy levitation is possible?). If that's true, I'm curious if you have any plans to add anything to change that since the enemies constantly chasing via the most direct path can get kind of boring after a while.
Of course too many changes might cause problems with large hordes of enemies, but for some higher-performance computers I think it wouldn't be a problem to mess with that and allow for more human-like dodging, juking, navigating obstacles, maybe even giving up the chase.
Another interesting idea might be injecting a bit of randomness in the enemy's visibility threshold (the enemy is drunk, etc)
I was definitely planning on adding changes to enemy movement at some point. That includes combat movement as well as fidgety movement when not in combat. It will likely require making further changes to the DFU core code to support it.
It would be great too see enemies, especially humans and some of the humanoids, to hesitate more and try and dance back and forth instead of rushing forward all the time. This is especially pronounced when fighting groups, such as when a mob of guards chases you like a swarm of locust.
Nice, but I did not find this mod because I was searching for something to make stealth more viable- I was looking for a mod that would make enemies surrender on low health, allowing a more gentle fighter character to be heroic without becomming a murder-hobo. Could you add settings to this mod to change the chance of enemy surrender on low health or very low health? Perhaps even expand that script into a whole new mod, 'non suicidal enemies,' or something?
Currently some enemies have a chance (~50%) to surrender if their health drops below 20%. Many enemies, like undead, would never surrender. Other examples would be knights and orc warlords, it's not in their nature. So I guess you want a mod option to raise the percentage chances? Maybe the Language Overhaul mod could be changed to make success easier for wounded opponents...
Yeah, kinda- a few sliders would be ideal. Only 50% of 'reasonable' individuals in Daggerfall choosing life sounds absurd. There could be some 'critical state'- if you can somehow knock someone's health down to 10 percent, say by using an iron staff or a joke-scale magic missile, they would surely(100%) surrender. Some enemies could also be 'craven,' having a 75% chance to run away(despawn) when their health drops to 50%. Healthy animals never fight to the death, even aggressive carnivores like tigers will run away like house cats if you smash their ribs in. Isn't 'I yield! Thee have bested me today-' a very typical knightly thing to say? Endeavouring to better oneself is valiant; throwing your life away, with all the chances to do good that would surely arise in the future, and all of that just to escape humiliation- is vanity. Don't know about orcs, but knights would know that. Could there be an option to pick which enemy types are 'reasonable?' If you mean the 'Language Skills Overhaul' by Macadaynu, then I am afraid that your suggestion would not work, for once you persuade someone, their faction is changed to player's faction, or something like that, causing their allies to kill them on the spot. I have that mod and love it very much. Finally- violent pacifism for Daggerfall: perfect for people who can never get enough fighting, but cannot stomach pointless murder.
If I default to a high surrender rate, that would significantly change how the game plays and I'm reluctant to do that. I could add some sliders though to give the players another option. For the language overhaul mod, I was referring to the initial pacification attempt, not creating an ally. If an enemy is badly wounded it should be easier to pacify them, though not necessarily ally them.
Sliders would be great. And in regards to the language skills overhaul- unless it is somehow bugged on my machine, it is the initial pacification attempt that changes their allegiances on success. Immediately after pacification I can talk to them, but they also start fighting their former allies. Is this not how it should be? Should I report this as a bug?
I don't normally use the language overhaul mod, but I was under the impression that you first had to pacify an enemy, then request they join your team and become an ally.
Oh yeah, it is like that, it's just that there's some jank. Or maybe 'pacification,' in the context of what is pretty much a team deathmatch, is less- 'no, don't hurt me, I'm not hostile,' and more- 'that guy called you stupid!'
76 comments
Any chance you could reconsider this? Punishing players for picking a high speed stat feels bad. It doesn't make sense to me anyway. A high Speed stat means the character not only knows how to move faster, but they can control their movement more effectively. They don't just move faster, but they can move quieter, faster. If I understand this correctly, even crouching and sneaking will only help so much, because those mechanics are based on percentages, themselves (sneaking sets your movement to 49% of your move speed).
Any way to have it based on a percentage of movement speed rather than the raw move speed value? Otherwise, maybe consider changing the crouch and/or sneak action to set a player's move speed to a raw value rather than a percentage (sneak makes the most sense, based on its purpose). It just doesn't make sense that someone with a high Speed stat completely loses control over their ability to be quiet when they want to. "Can't help it, I'm just too damn fast!"
Kuddos to you for making this mod. It's really a game changer IMO.
can't figure out if it's this or Kab's Unleveled Spells (which this was encouraged to be used with) that's making my life a nightmare, since both of them alter enemy spell lists, but Kab's Unleveled Spells tends to even everything out, damage-wise. It's definitely this mod, because enemies stop healing when I disable it, although they do become a lot more aggressive with their offensive spells (although their magic hits for significantly less). I think when you designed the new spell lists, you didn't account for the strength of enemy spells or the health of Players, because playing any enemy that has spells is HUGELY frustrating.I'm playing with Uncanny Always Hit, so on average, it takes me about 10 to 15 melee hits to kill a human enemy due to my beginner weapon skills (although, even with high skills, it still takes a while)... EXCEPT every human enemy also has a heal spell that FULLY recovers them (from 18% health instantly upto 95% health) and they spam it, so it takes closer to 30+ hits to kill any Rogue or Spellcaster. If that's not bad enough, they ALSO have offensive magic that deals about ~30 damage. At level one I have 37 Hit Points, so I die in two hits, and because of Kab's Unleveled Spells, even if I had offensive magic, I would be dealing only 5 damage, which doesn't ever come close to killing them. Imps are also particularly frustrating to fight, but they at least don't self heal.
I've managed to level up and train a bunch of my skills, but at the setup, it's probably easier for me to slay a dragon than it is to kill anything with magic. I've been trying to complete the same early dungeon for several hours, because every time I run into a Rogue I end up having to load my game like 50 times and hope for perfect RNG just so I can beat ONE enemy. I don't know if the spell list injection was done is permanent or not, so removing the mod might be pointless if every enemy in the game is stuck like this for my save.
This is exactly why overhaul mods should have user Settings.
First, the enemies tend to sparkle, even basic rats, like the poster down below has mentioned. What kind of effect a rat can cast on itself anyway??? It might be a side effect from Bloodfall mod, because this tends to happen only after you've hit the enemy. In fact, it might be a good idea to print in the screen log if an enemy is using an effect so that you know if it's bugged or not.
Second, this mod seems to invalidate invisibility spell completely, even the true version. Enemies still beeline straight at me, and in fact, even when I crouch in stealth mode with no armor, only with the catsuit on. I mean, I don't mind that enemies are a bit more reactive to invisibility spell, but shouldn't that be until after the first hit at least?
Also stealth is basically non-existent for me, with ~40 skill it still basically does nothing. Is it one of those cases where it has no effect until it's maxed out? I have around 140+ mods, so it might be some funky interaction with another mod, but I'm trying to load University as low in the list as possible already.
If they are close enough they will probably hear you moving around due to your lower stealth stealth and/or armor.
A 40 stealth is useful against more distant enemies, but if you want to stay undetected up close it will have to be higher.
I'm pretty sure the sparkle thing is due to another mod. There is no code in MU to make anything sparkle.
Edit: Ok, now I read that the pacification when enemy health is low is a feature from this mod, the problem with language overhaul is that pacified becomes your allies and start to attack the enemies instead of running away.
I can confirm that Bloodfall is partially at fault here. I've constantly had the sparkles too, and once I disabled the "Always Blood on Hit" Setting of Bloodfall this immediately stopped. Also, the sparkles remained even after Monster University was disabled, so that's not the issue. It's just that specific effect from Bloodfall acting weird overall, but it seems Bloodfall is compatible with MU, as long as that Setting is disabled.
That resolves the sparkles for damaging enemies, but sometimes when pacified the sparkles still come back. I'm guessing the pacified state acts as a permanent enchantment or something. In which case, both Bloodfall and Language Overhaul are guilty, although I think it's mostly the latter due to it's skill checks and active pacifism. At least due to the sparkles you'll be able to spot your allies a bit easier?
This was working for me, but now the sparkles on combat hit suddenly started back up again. I'm guessing it's a weird thing with how DFU loads things, because I've had other mods that didn't have any troubles until I loaded my save during the same session, and I think that's the case here. I'll keep looking into it, though.
Maybe in the future we'll get an option to turn off the automatic pacificism, but it's not the end of the world; just pretend the spared enemy is trying to pay you back by fighting for you. At the very least, they don't seem to follow me automatically once pacified, although you can talk to them in this state, and have them join your team without a skill check. It's not as huge of a deal as I originally thought from reading this thread, but it is annoying.
Having the option to make enemies not be automatically pacified on low health would be great, as this makes them easier, and Language Overhaul already allows something similar, which someone points out sort of conflicts. Also, maybe an adjuster for good enemies are at detecting stealth? Stuff like that.
What precisely do you mean regarding 'how good enemies are at detecting stealth'?
Are you taking about the stealth skill check, or their senses?
The feature I'm most interested in though is the option to turn the pacify off and/or maybe a bar to adjust "when" they get pacified (the health percentage or whatever). If used with Language Overhaul, the automatic pacifism also automatically makes injured enemies your allies as well, without performing any skill check or interaction. I can see arguments for this being a natural thing that happens, but if it's not too much trouble, having the option to toggle that would be a great thing.
Of course too many changes might cause problems with large hordes of enemies, but for some higher-performance computers I think it wouldn't be a problem to mess with that and allow for more human-like dodging, juking, navigating obstacles, maybe even giving up the chase.
Another interesting idea might be injecting a bit of randomness in the enemy's visibility threshold (the enemy is drunk, etc)
That includes combat movement as well as fidgety movement when not in combat.
It will likely require making further changes to the DFU core code to support it.
Many enemies, like undead, would never surrender. Other examples would be knights and orc warlords, it's not in their nature.
So I guess you want a mod option to raise the percentage chances?
Maybe the Language Overhaul mod could be changed to make success easier for wounded opponents...
enemies could also be 'craven,' having a 75% chance to run away(despawn) when their health drops to 50%. Healthy animals never fight to the death, even aggressive carnivores like tigers will run away like house cats if you smash their ribs in.
Isn't 'I yield! Thee have bested me today-' a very typical knightly thing to say? Endeavouring to better oneself is valiant; throwing your life away, with all the chances to do good that would surely arise in the future, and all of that just to escape humiliation- is vanity. Don't know about orcs, but knights would know that. Could there be an option to pick which enemy types are 'reasonable?'
If you mean the 'Language Skills Overhaul' by Macadaynu, then I am afraid that your suggestion would not work, for once you persuade someone, their faction is changed to player's faction, or something like that, causing their allies to kill them on the spot. I have that mod and love it very much.
Finally- violent pacifism for Daggerfall: perfect for people who can never get enough fighting, but cannot stomach pointless murder.
For the language overhaul mod, I was referring to the initial pacification attempt, not creating an ally. If an enemy is badly wounded it should be easier to pacify them, though not necessarily ally them.
And in regards to the language skills overhaul- unless it is somehow bugged on my machine, it is the initial pacification attempt that changes their allegiances on success. Immediately after pacification I can talk to them, but they also start fighting their former allies. Is this not how it should be? Should I report this as a bug?