two months later and neither of you have installed it, tested it, and reported back with your results? fine. i'll do it. hold while i f*#@ing do it.
as soon as i can figure out exactly how to test it... those perks and mods don't exist anymore.
it would be very funny if i never updated this with my results.
edit: doesn't seem necessary anymore. none of the fire or reload rate mods/perks i tried changed the damage on the tooltip or the damage dealt.. could be my methodology is fucked in which case i encourage you to test it yourself.
Definitely still needed but I don't think it still works. I can see right now that if I upgrade my iconics... they actually drop in damage per shot. Stupid.
I see no difference in floating damage numbers, using Submachine Fun. Swapping/hard reloading a Shigure yielded the same damage, yet fire rate was discernably faster.
I don't see a need for this at this time. If I am wrong, please provide your testing method and results.
(I turned on god mode and unloaded on a MaxTac heavy to the body for several mags/swaps)
Thanks for this. It's so stupid that buying a perk could gain you literally zero ground -- You buy a perk that should increase your DPS but instead it (at best) does nothing or (at worst) makes your high damage revolver worse..
Better yet, the number cruncher concept of "DPS" while logical and something a player would naturally be figuring when making some build in any game, should never have made it's way into our in-game menus and tooltips - we should be the ones attempting to discern how much damage a weapon does, and the pros and cons of how it does so - it always bothers the crap out of me when someone who makes a game decides to condense all possible weapon statistics and peculiarities into a single catch-all number that makes almost everything you pick up sort of irrelevant if it doesn't have that green number full stop - and it becomes the only thing the vast majority of players wil even glance at, regarding their weapon stats. That's just so ...empty.
Do I go with THIS 90dps pistol, or this OTHER 90dps submachinegun?! decisions decisions. How they function may be different, along with fire rate - but damage per bullet is always a much more ueseful stat, and I always had a lot more fun in any RPG-esq game trying to discern for myself what was better - a lot of people just see the green number and go, and in a game like Cyberpunk that's depressing!
When one tries to adhere to a DPS figure you get "balancing" crap like "more bullets = less damage" - machine guns would never have been invented, if that were the way reality worked anyway right? Little gimmicks like that eventually begin to make all games seem very samey - I remember when I first picked up Diablo 3 and realized .... all I had to do, mostly, was just look for the green numbers indicating a positive DPS change - got boring so fast, too... far faster than Diablo 2 ever did, because the devs did literally all the figuring out for me, by giving me the mean/average damage output at the very top - it makes the range of damages displayed pretty much pointless to even show the player in a lot of games.
Personally, I prefer to have all the information at my disposal. Show me dps, damage per shot, rof, crit chance, crit damage, penetration, everything.
Otherwise, I totally agree with you. You might not always want the highest dps, depending on enemy armor, how armor works in the game, etc. Sometimes damage per shot is way more important, especially if you have perks/mods that increase magazine size or reduces reload time. If your goal is to maximize CC or effects like burning/poison/bleeding, then you might want a weapon with higher rof at the expense of damage, or aoe to disperse the effects. DPS isn't the end all be all, but I still want it displayed
That is for game balance. If you took a 9mm pistol damage of 30, and then used the same 30 damage for 9mm in a MP5 it would be drastically overpowered. So the MP5 becomes 15 or something; to cut the damage down. You know: else it would instant kill everything; including the boss fights.
Something like that. But I'd say it also has to do with the feel for the weapon that the player gets. All the weapons are balanced to feel good to the player when in used against combatants. I just roll with it. That is professional game balance in a nutshell. Whatever they come up with, that we adjust later.
I agree with you in general, and this doesn’t really change that. The base DPS of a rapid fire weapon and a slow firing weapon of the same level are the same. Due to the way things are calculated, a slow firing weapon therefore does more damage per hit vs. the rapid firing weapon.
What this does is make it so that when you take a perk that increases attack speed or reload speed (or have a weapon with special features), you don’t _decrease_ your damage per hit. You can see this mechanic in play in the vanilla game with melee weapons (increasing melee attack speed increases DPS). This mod effectively makes the behavior of melee and ranged weapons the same.
If this was an intentional decision for game balance, then it would be pretty crummy to keep the perks and mods that increase attack speed and reload speed, as they don’t do anything in the base game but cause you to waste resources so that you use more bullets to do the same damage.
Not really. The MP5 is a submachine gun, a 'main' weapon so to speak. The 9mm Glock is a pistol, which is a sidearm. A main weapon should be superior to a sidearm because it's a bigger gun. It feels unfair but that's because in the real world things are balanced out by more than just DPS stats, something that this game absolutely failed to account for in its outdated gameplay design, namely that with a bigger gun you sacrifice portability and concealability, because long guns are generally a pain to carry when you want both of your hands free.
What this game could have easily done is make it so that for each character only weapon slot #1 can equip long guns, and doing so causes a slight penalty on running speed and stamina. And ideally they should make it so that if the ncpd spots you or anyone with long guns equipped in important places like the corpo square, the officer gets aggro'ed and demands you to pay a fine and forces you to put that gun back into your inventory/car.
And because this is an RPG that encourages different builds, for players that fully spec'ed into pistols and want to play like a Hollywood action hero, there should be perks that make pistols as effective as long guns after a number of perk points; whereas for players that fully spec'ed into long guns and have no pistol perks, there should be perks that allow weapon slot #2 to equip long guns as well, albeit with a further movement speed penalty so you can't sneak into places as easily.
CDPR needs to get rid of the MMORPG mindset when it comes to gameplay design. Not a single MMORPG has really succeeded since WOW, all the while when GTA online is making Rockstar so much money they no longer need to make any real games to stay profitable since 2012.
And I ask you kindly to update ASAP as possible, as I have a mod on the works that allows fire rate changes and, guess what? Fire rate goes up, damage goes down...
Oi! Someone just dropped this in my mod comments: items.base_weapon_inline102
Looks like the inline. But I have no experience with combined stat modifiers, so I could not find a way to neuter it. I managed just to turn damage to zero, or to raise it a lot
Also, I believe it'd be better to have this as a standalone mod than to have it integrated in mine
Just adding my two cents to say this is the mod I'm holding off starting a new playthrough for. Athos, I don't really understand the details, but please keep us updated on your findings. I appreciate cha!
I'm using the SWSC mod to raise rate of fire of specific weapons, and (for example) with the Guillotine, setting the rate of fire to .20, or all the way up to x5 (making it sound like a zipper) does not change the weapon damages. My guillotine does 29 damage per hit, and setting it super slow or super fast, the per shot damage is around 29, no matter the speed. Reflected in the weapons stats, AND in game damage through testing.
BUT - I used a separate mod to change magazine sizes, and that did directly change the weapon damages (not dps, but actual per shot damage) So (for example) the sidewinder, I bumped up to a 90 bullet magazine (x3), and it dropped my weapons damage from 12 to 8.4...
I can then use the SWSC mod to re-calibrate and raise the damages again when it lowers from the magazine mod.
NOTE - I am on Version 2.11, and also using a ton of other mods, including Hardcore 22, so, not sure if those change how the base game functions.
95 comments
as soon as i can figure out exactly how to test it... those perks and mods don't exist anymore.
it would be very funny if i never updated this with my results.
edit: doesn't seem necessary anymore. none of the fire or reload rate mods/perks i tried changed the damage on the tooltip or the damage dealt.. could be my methodology is fucked in which case i encourage you to test it yourself.
I don't see a need for this at this time. If I am wrong, please provide your testing method and results.
(I turned on god mode and unloaded on a MaxTac heavy to the body for several mags/swaps)
Do I go with THIS 90dps pistol, or this OTHER 90dps submachinegun?! decisions decisions. How they function may be different, along with fire rate - but damage per bullet is always a much more ueseful stat, and I always had a lot more fun in any RPG-esq game trying to discern for myself what was better - a lot of people just see the green number and go, and in a game like Cyberpunk that's depressing!
When one tries to adhere to a DPS figure you get "balancing" crap like "more bullets = less damage" - machine guns would never have been invented, if that were the way reality worked anyway right? Little gimmicks like that eventually begin to make all games seem very samey - I remember when I first picked up Diablo 3 and realized .... all I had to do, mostly, was just look for the green numbers indicating a positive DPS change - got boring so fast, too... far faster than Diablo 2 ever did, because the devs did literally all the figuring out for me, by giving me the mean/average damage output at the very top - it makes the range of damages displayed pretty much pointless to even show the player in a lot of games.
Otherwise, I totally agree with you. You might not always want the highest dps, depending on enemy armor, how armor works in the game, etc. Sometimes damage per shot is way more important, especially if you have perks/mods that increase magazine size or reduces reload time. If your goal is to maximize CC or effects like burning/poison/bleeding, then you might want a weapon with higher rof at the expense of damage, or aoe to disperse the effects. DPS isn't the end all be all, but I still want it displayed
look the HMG in game , the damage look like its a .22 gun
and the 9mm SMG can make more damage, thats not a good ider
Something like that. But I'd say it also has to do with the feel for the weapon that the player gets. All the weapons are balanced to feel good to the player when in used against combatants. I just roll with it. That is professional game balance in a nutshell. Whatever they come up with, that we adjust later.
What this does is make it so that when you take a perk that increases attack speed or reload speed (or have a weapon with special features), you don’t _decrease_ your damage per hit. You can see this mechanic in play in the vanilla game with melee weapons (increasing melee attack speed increases DPS). This mod effectively makes the behavior of melee and ranged weapons the same.
If this was an intentional decision for game balance, then it would be pretty crummy to keep the perks and mods that increase attack speed and reload speed, as they don’t do anything in the base game but cause you to waste resources so that you use more bullets to do the same damage.
What this game could have easily done is make it so that for each character only weapon slot #1 can equip long guns, and doing so causes a slight penalty on running speed and stamina. And ideally they should make it so that if the ncpd spots you or anyone with long guns equipped in important places like the corpo square, the officer gets aggro'ed and demands you to pay a fine and forces you to put that gun back into your inventory/car.
And because this is an RPG that encourages different builds, for players that fully spec'ed into pistols and want to play like a Hollywood action hero, there should be perks that make pistols as effective as long guns after a number of perk points; whereas for players that fully spec'ed into long guns and have no pistol perks, there should be perks that allow weapon slot #2 to equip long guns as well, albeit with a further movement speed penalty so you can't sneak into places as easily.
CDPR needs to get rid of the MMORPG mindset when it comes to gameplay design. Not a single MMORPG has really succeeded since WOW, all the while when GTA online is making Rockstar so much money they no longer need to make any real games to stay profitable since 2012.
Damage & DPS seem to be capped; instead of tethered.
And I ask you kindly to update ASAP as possible, as I have a mod on the works that allows fire rate changes and, guess what? Fire rate goes up, damage goes down...
Please and thank you
Looks like the inline. But I have no experience with combined stat modifiers, so I could not find a way to neuter it. I managed just to turn damage to zero, or to raise it a lot
Also, I believe it'd be better to have this as a standalone mod than to have it integrated in mine
BUT - I used a separate mod to change magazine sizes, and that did directly change the weapon damages (not dps, but actual per shot damage) So (for example) the sidewinder, I bumped up to a 90 bullet magazine (x3), and it dropped my weapons damage from 12 to 8.4...
I can then use the SWSC mod to re-calibrate and raise the damages again when it lowers from the magazine mod.
NOTE - I am on Version 2.11, and also using a ton of other mods, including Hardcore 22, so, not sure if those change how the base game functions.
Will the mods be updated to version 2.01?