Can confirm, Better Text Visibility 1.5.1, no HUD increase doesn't seem to create any issues with this mod in 2560x1080. Condensed is personally my favorite over the regular BTV font, I have added an image that shows both his mod (condensed ver.) and mine active.
To anyone wondering what the damage formula looks like:
Base damage x multiplier1 x multiplier2 x ... x multiplierN
As far as I can tell, every multipliers are always multiplicative to each other, but always additive to themselves (any stacking mechanic is an incremental increase)
Let's take for example Ascending Assault: Deals 250% damage, 1 hit. Deals 30% more damage for each previous cast, up to 150%
With no multipliers, this will simply deal 2.5x your attack power on hit (let's ignore enemy resistance and armor entirely if they exist). Let's assume your first cast of Ascending Assault dealt 2500
Now what if that was a crit? Simply multiply the damage with the crit multiplier: crits get a 50% more damage bonus, thus it will be a 1.5x multiplier (50% more damage = 100% (your normal damage) + 50% (the added damage)) In this case, a crit would be 3750
Let's continue, but this time with one instance of "previous cast" bonus to its multiplier
Non crit: Base damage x previous cast multiplier 250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) 2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 1)) 2500 x 1.3 This results in a hit of 3250
Crit: Base damage x previous cast multiplier x crit multiplier 250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) x (100% + 50%) 2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 1)) x 1.5 2500 x 1.3 x 1.5 This results in a hit of 4875
Two instances of "previous cast" bonus, non crit: Base damage x previous cast multiplier 250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) 2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 2)) 2500 x 1.6 This results in a hit of 4000
Two instances of "previous cast" bonus, crit: Base damage x previous cast multiplier x crit multiplier 250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) x (100% + 50%) 2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 2)) x 1.5 2500 x 1.6 x 1.5 This results in a hit of 6000
What if for those two last examples, you also had rank S in Perfection? Simply add another multiplier equal to the multiplier of the rank, in this case it is a 200% more damage increase
Two instances of "previous cast" bonus, non crit, rank S: Base damage x previous cast multiplier x rank multiplier 250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) x (100% + 200%) 2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 2)) x 3 2500 x 1.6 x 3 This results in a hit of 12000
Two instances of "previous cast" bonus, crit, rank S: Base damage x previous cast multiplier x crit multiplier x rank multiplier 250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) x (100% + 50%) x (100% + 200%) 2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 2)) x 1.5 x 3 2500 x 1.6 x 1.5 x 3 This results in a hit of 18000
Let's go one step further and add in the QTE multiplier, which is simply another 10% more damage multiplier on success, doubled on a perfect, stacking until the skill completes.
Two instances of "previous cast" bonus, non crit, rank S, perfect QTE: Base damage x previous cast multiplier x rank multiplier x QTE multiplier 250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) x (100% + 200%) x (100% + 20%) 2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 2)) x 3 x 1.2 2500 x 1.6 x 3 x 1.2 This results in a hit of 14400
Two instances of "previous cast" bonus, crit, rank S, perfect QTE: Base damage x previous cast multiplier x crit multiplier x rank multiplier x QTE multiplier 250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) x (100% + 50%) x (100% + 200%) x (100% + 20%) 2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 2)) x 1.5 x 3 x 1.2 2500 x 1.6 x 1.5 x 3 x 1.2 This results in a hit of 21600
Regarding your post on damage calculation, one other thing I noticed is that all pictos/luminas that say "X% increased damage" get added together in one multiplier, as opposed to "deals X% more damage" which adds a new multiplier.
Say, Picto A deals 50% increased damage, Picto B deals 30% increased damage and Picto C deals 25% more damage, the formula would be:
Base damage x (1+.5+.3) x 1.25 = Base damage x 1.8 x 1.25 = Base damage x 2.25.
Here's the results of some testing I did earlier tonight (using spoiler tag due to character and skill names):
Spoiler:
Show
Maelle equipped with level 33 Medalum at Attack Power 10,577, using Stendhal in Virtuoso Stance:
1,209,506 - Not actually sure how it got that high with no damage boosting pictos/lumina. Medalum is dealing 12,799 with it's basic attack instead 10,577, a 21% markup, but that doesn't doesn't fully cover it. Tried a few other weapons and their basic attack matches their Attack Power, so I think Medalum is still bugged. Anyway, the point here is to show how different luminas affected that 1,209,506 damage. EDIT: forgot to multiply by 1.4 for the two perfect QTEs; the math checks out now (except that weird 21% gain on Medelum).
1,693,308 - Added Auto Death, Survivor, SOS Powerful and Greater Powerful for a 40% gain.
2,539,692 - Tried Augmented First Strike (increased damage), then removed and tried First Offensive (more damage) and got the same number, another 50% gain.
3,809,942 - Greater Powerful, At Death's Door (more damage) and either Augmented First Strike or First Offensive.
5,714,913 - Greater Powerful, At Death's Door, Glass Cannon (more damage), Confident Fighter (increased damage) and Augmented First Strike.
6,191,156 - Greater Powerful, At Death's Door, Glass Cannon, Confident Fighter and First Offensive. This is where you can see the damage difference between "increased" and "more". Augmented First Strike (50%) combined with Confident Fighter (30%), whereas First Offensive was treated as a separate multiplier.
The formula for the last two numbers are:
1,209,506 x 1.4 (GP) = 1,609,308.4 (round down) x 1.5 (ADD) = 2,539,962 x 1.25 (GC) = 3,174,952.5 (game still rounds down) x 1.8 (AFS+CF) = 5,714,913.
1,209,506 x 1.4 (GP) = 1,609,308.4 (round down) x 1.5 (ADD) = 2,539,962 x 1.25 (GC) = 3,174,952.5 (game still rounds down) x 1.3 (CF) = 4,127,437.6 (yet again rounds down) x 1.5 (FO) = 6,191,155.5 (now game decides to round up to 6,191,156).
Easier to read version:
1,209,506 x 1.4 = 1,609,308 x 1.5 = 2,539,962 x 1.25 = 3,174,952 x 1.8 = 5,714,913
1,209,506 x 1.4 = 1,609,308 x 1.5 = 2,539,962 x 1.25 = 3,174,952 x 1.3 = 4,127,437 x 1.5 = 6,191,156
I went a step further with the Augmented First Strike test and added Inverted Affinity (50% increased damage):
1,209,506 x 1.4 = 1,609,308 x 1.5 = 2,539,962 x 1.25 = 3,174,952 x 2.3 (ASF+CF+IA) = 7,302,389.6 (for some reason this rounded down).
EDIT: The apparent bug with Medalum reminded me of more damage bugs I found: Dead Energy II, First Strike and Sweet Kill all give 10% more damage (separate multipliers).
I assume the same calculation applies to weapon passives, but I haven't tested that out.
Anyway, thank you for all your hard work on this mod! It's a must have for me.
Thank you, really informative write-up, gonna deep diver into it today, just a couple points to make sure I understood correctly: 1. Make sure all Pictos that say "increase" are additive between themselves, whereas "more" work as multipliers 2. Some Pictos/Luminas have a hidden "more damage" clause: if yes, is that for both Pictos and Luminas or only one of them?
Increased damage: Augmented Aim Augmented Attack Augmented Counter I Augmented Counter II Augmented Counter III Augmented First Strike Burn Affinity Confident Fighter Empowering Dodge Empowering Parry Exhausting Power Gradient Fighter Immaculate Inverted Affinity Piercing Shot Powered Attack Powerful Shield Shield Affinity Sniper Stun Boost Tainted Versatile Warming Up
More damage: At Death’s Door Break Specialist (less damage) Faster Than Strong (less damage) First Offensive Full Strength Glass Canon Roulette Solo Fighter Team Work (hidden 10% more damage, all allies alive, another 10% more damage)
Hidden more damage 10%: Dead Energy II First Strike Sweet Kill Team Work (if ur allies all alive, then another 10% more damage)
Lovely, this all tracks with my data except for Exhausting Power and Stun Boost which I haven't tested yet, gonna skip those two and will push an update soon
Not actually sure how it got that high with no damage boosting pictos/lumina. Medalum is dealing 12,799 with it's basic attack instead 10,577, a 21% markup, but that doesn't doesn't fully cover it. Tried a few other weapons and their basic attack matches their Attack Power, so I think Medalum is still bugged.
Seashelum, Stalum, Volesterum, Yeverum, and Sekarum all have a hidden 10% damage multiplier (at least for Stendhal). Glaisum has it too but doubled, just like Melarum (110%*110%=121%).
Someone made these calculations for Stendhal damage before the last patch: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11zYB1fpMAY0qRizklTDwX8wudMgVEM_LX-Vmnbyu6Rk/edit?gid=0#gid=0
Here Melarum is actually 242%, but that's because of the buggy part that got fixed, without it goes back to 121%, like Glaisum.
I haven't tested whether this happens with other characters, but given that it occurs within a subset of Maelle weapons, not just one. I would guess it does.
Thank you, really informative write-up, gonna deep diver into it today, just a couple points to make sure I understood correctly: 1. Make sure all Pictos that say "increase" are additive between themselves, whereas "more" work as multipliers 2. Some Pictos/Luminas have a hidden "more damage" clause: if yes, is that for both Pictos and Luminas or only one of them?
No problem! It's been fun testing this. To answer your points: 1. I've tried about half of them for "increase" and all for "more". So far, everything I've tested fits this math. 2. I'm getting the same hidden "more damage" whether the picto is equipped or the lumina.
Team Work (if ur allies all alive, then another 10% more damage)
That's cool! I didn't catch that one. Thanks for pointing that out!
Seashelum, Stalum, Volesterum, Yeverum, and Sekarum all have a hidden 10% damage multiplier (at least for Stendhal). Glaisum has it too but doubled, just like Melarum (110%*110%=121%).
Really interesting, and thank you for the link to that spreadsheet! I tried to find what separates those weapons from the rest, but don't see any patterns. I think they all have Defense as a secondary attribute, but so do others that don't get this boost.
Btw, if anyone's interested, I made another number-crunchy post under this mod: ALL Enemies Level 99. I highly recommend it for subsequent playthroughs to give enemies across the game more consistent values along with Increase HP-Speed-Attack of Enemies and Randomizer to fit your desired difficulty.
Oooh thanks for the recommended mods JawnDuder, slowly making my way through endgame but I feel those are definitely gonna be must-haves for NG+ From what I could gather, Teamwork is a fixed 10% more damage bonus, and an additional 10% more damage (effectively 21% more damage total) if you have at least 1 ally, and no dead allies; I'm not exactly sure how to word it in-game, I'm open to suggestions Only found one Picto that was incorrectly labeled as "increased damage" while it was actually a "more damage" bonus (Full Strength), and it does look like Pictos and Luminas all give the "hidden" bonus Next step is going through all weapons, depending on how much stuff I will have to rewrite, they will either come out one character at a time or in one single update
1.3.1 has been released, did not keep track of a changelog, instead here is what's probably next: - Test and implement break damage multipliers - Check consistency of the wording used across the entire roster's kits - Pretty much it for now, let me know if you have any requests or possible improvements
Sidaro has been fixed, this will be shipped with the next update, thanks! Did a lot of testing with counterattacks, I can confirm that Augmented Counter luminas stack additively, but they are multiplicative with the Weapon perk
Do you think it would be beneficial to change "more" and "increased" into something more obvious for people who aren't familiar with the difference? A couple of examples:
At Death's Door: Deal 50% more damage if Health is below 10%. (vanilla) At Death's Door: 1.5x damage if Health is below 10%. (concise) At Death's Door: Multiply all damage dealt by 1.5 if your Health is below 10%. (detailed)
Confident Fighter: 30% increased damage, but can't be Healed. (vanilla) Confident Fighter: +30% damage, but can't be Healed. (concise) Confident Fighter: Add 30% Attack Power to all damage dealt, but you can't be healed. (detailed)
Glass Canon: Deal 25% more damage, but take 25% more damage. (vanilla) Glass Canon: Deal and take 1.25x damage. (concise) Glass Canon: Mulitply all damage dealt and taken by 1.25. (detailed)
I was also thinking it might be nice to show how many turns buffs/debuffs last. For example, Accelerating Heal states it applies Rush for 1 turn, while Accelerating Shots states the chances of gaining Rush, but not for how long. It lasts for 3 turns, not including the turn you gain it. The Last Stand buffs last for 3 turns after reviving one of your allies. It applies at the start of your turn if you are fighting alone. I then had 3 full turns after reviving my ally before it went away. More examples:
Accelerating Last Stand: Gain Rush if fighting alone. (vanilla) Accelerating Last Stand: Gain Rush for 3 turns if fighting alone. (concise) Accelerating Last Stand: Gain Rush if fighting alone. Lasts 3 turns if no longer fighting alone. (detailed)
Accelerating Shots: 20% chance to gain Rush on Free Aim shot. (vanilla) Accelerating Shots: 20% Rush chance on Free Aim. 3 turns. (concise) Accelerating Shots: 20% chance to gain Rush on Free Aim shot. Lasts 3 turns. (detailed)
I was actually planning on using +100% for increased damage and 2x for more damage, but I did not find a way to make it work for stacking multipliers, like "Deal 100% more damage for each Stain consumed" and "Deal 2x damage for each Stain consumed" do not read the same at all Good point on the duration, if it's missing a duration just know it's 3 turns (default hardcoded value for buffs/debuffs). Will add them as I see them/are reported back
That does make it clunkier, for certain, but I think it can be worded in a way that makes sense. For your example, something like "Multiply damage by 1 more than the number of Stains consumed" might be a little clunky, but I think it's easier to interpret than how more and increased are used.
If you take how the level 4 passive for Scaverim is worded now: "Deal 50% more damage with Skills per active Dark Stain," and apply the logic of "50% more damage" means multiply by 1.5, you could interpret it as Damage = Attack Power x 1.5 x # of active Dark Stains. I read it as Damage = Attack Power x (# of active Dark Stains x 0.5 + 1), which I think is right. "Multiply Skill damage per active Dark Stain: 1.5x, 2x, 2.5x, 3x" is the only way I can think to word it without it being too long. It might still be a bit ambiguous.
Didn't know about the default hardcoded duration but that makes a lot of sense. This game would benefit from tool tips that include that kind of information, or maybe including it in the Expedition Basics. I suppose they were going for a bit of ambiguity in their design to have people figure these things out by playing. It's the same thing for Status Effects. They don't say how long they last either, except Curse has the number over you.
On phone so this won't be the prettiest formatting, but to keep it short and simple, I agree with what essentially boils down to 3 points: 1. Difference between more and increased 2. Multipliers that stack, stack additively to themselves (assuming you meant "you could interpret it as Damage = Attack Power x 1.5 ^ # of active Dark Stains") 3. The 3 turns thing is a hardcoded, global thing, but there is nothing to lose to still add (3 turns) to the skill descriptions
1-2 can be resolved with presenting the information in the mod landing page, which I need to update, whereas 3 is just gonna take a bit of time but that's it
Feel like there are some skills that are likely multiplier based (like Versos Ascending Assault) and some that are additive to the multiplier like maelles burning canvas. Hard to know without being explicit in your descriptions.
I'm not sure what you mean by that since Ascending Assault and Burning Canvas' more damage clauses work the exact same? If it says "more damage", it's a separate multiplicative multiplier (that is additive to itself, if it says 100% more for each burn, 2 burn isn't 300% more damage (2x2)), if it says "increased damage" it is an additive multiplier, where all "increased damage" are pooled together, and then used as a multiplicative multiplier, once all increases have been summed. Extensive testing and explanations have been done by the community in the posts here, please check them to your own leisure
Add 00_ at the beginning of the half cost mod's name (or any other mod that modifies DT_PassiveEffects), it will have priority and override the change my mod makes to DT_PassiveEffects, this should work while we figure things out
Kimjsd, would you consider rebalancing some of the problematic outlier abilities (as a separate mod)?
I am in NG+ and having a hard time having fun. I am using mods to increase the difficulty, but it seems that certain moves are SUCH outliers that if I don't use them, the new HP values I am using are WAY too high.
I like to min/max, but not break the game doing so. So it's hard for me to just have an honor system and not use the OP abilities.
HOWEVER, if anyone else makes the rebalancing mod, it will need a patch to have the correct descriptions that your mod provides, so I figured best to just ask you!
Especially since its a single player game, I don't anticipate the developers worrying too much about balance-- and it would be unpopular with many players. But I'd love to be able to go through NG+ multiple times while still having a fair and fun challenge.
Once this mod is over and done with, balancing the game would be my next goal, once everything is properly figured out in this game and we know exactly how to tune things down and up number wise, since almost everything is multiplicative things get out of hand fast. Now that I've tinkered a bit with weapon perks and figured some things out, I might be able to both tune the numerical value of the multipliers, but also change some of them to additive. If someone else releases a good balance mod, please feel free to request a specific version of my mod for it
Perfect job Kimjsd I've updated the weapon bonus that I gave, find out which perk has hidden bonus, have u checked it? And I made some mistakes when testing, sorry for that.
Yes I have, thank you very much it was very useful, some errors from me might have slipped past though, let me know if you find anything. h4nswm has already reported two things to me, one is particularly confusing: Dreameso level 10 and Augmented Counter II seem to use the same passive, but one is more damage and the other increased damage
Gonna post a more thorough comment on h4nswm post, but it looks like both Dreameso 10 and Augmented Counter II are "more damage" Will test some more when I'm back on the computer Oh please no don't be sorry, you have been extremely useful in making the mod progress way faster than it should have been
I tested it again. In my test Dreameso 10 is "more damage" and Augmented Counter II is "increased damage" 1.Use Verleso, luminaless, Attack Power 10105, counterattack damage: 93,471 = 10105*7.4*1.25(rank C) 2.Use Verleso, With Augmented Counter II and Confident Fighter, counterattack damage: 168,247 = 10105*7.4*1.25*1.8 3.Use Dreameso, Attack Power 9141, With Confident Fighter, counterattack damage: 197,857 = 9141*7.4*1.3*1.5*1.5(rank B) 4.Use Dreameso, With Augmented Counter II and Confident Fighter, counterattack damage: 273,956 = 9141*7.4*1.8*1.5*1.5
My theory is that "increased damage" go in "buckets", there is one "increased damage" stack for weapon perks, another one for luminas and so on. That way both the weapon perk and Augmented Counters can be "increased damage" but still multiply each other
"Dreameso level 10 and Augmented Counter II seem to use the same passive"
Are you trying to say that the game assigns the exact same string to both skills, but internally one skill is additive, and the other multiplicative?
If so, that sounds troublesome for the purposes of the mod. Probably best to leave the default string value, and include a list of unfixable skills in the mod's description. I'm not sure. Sorry.
Yes exactly, Augmented Counter II was left untouched, but both it and Dreameso level 10 perk fetch the same passive in the database, so changing its wording for Dreameso also was reflected on Aug Counter II incidentally, hence why my best explanation would be that they both are actually "increased damage" but there is a higher paradigm at play, like say increased damage are split depending on their sources, which would be a really convenient explanation on why Dreameso 10 and any individual Aug Counter or their sum are multiplicative If it's only that one particular perk though, imma be mad lmao
Haven't tested any other weapons yet, still trying to figure out Dreameso: my next best guess is that it returns BP_LU_CounterDamage+50 for its descriptions but actually uses BP_LU_IncreaseCounterDamage (which is a 1.5 multiplier, whereas CounterDamage+25/50/75 are 0.25/0.50/0.75 multipliers, which probably means they are additive in the code, which would track) Was trying to figure out how to make Dreamso's level 10 perk use BP_LU_IncreaseCounterDamage, this line is probably deprecated, it has no numerical value in its description since the beginning
I actually was spot on, had to go in DT_PassiveEffects and change the key for Description in IncreaseCounterDamage, it was referencing to "PASSIVE_AugmentedCounter_Description" (Augmented Counter II)'s descriptions instead of the correct one, "PASSIVE_IncreaseCounterDamage_Description" (I think, Ive went done so many rabbit holes its all a blur at this point)
what is the difference between 1.3.0 and 1.3.0p? as far as I know this mod has always only used percentages and there's no new image preview to clear up what you mean, so what is the actual difference here?
Before 1.3.0, percentages only was in optional files as 1.X.Yp, it has been moved to main files with 1.3.0, no other changes. Main files uses percentages, but it uses double or triple damage when possible. Will edit their descriptions to make it clearer
One thing about Contorso Level 20, the lightning strike may not crit When Verso not in rank S, and with low critical rate, u do a critical attack or shot, the lightning strike may not critical. So I think, "deal 50% lightning damage" will be better.
and do u know how to make break damage visible, so I can test the break damage bonuses.
Oh I see, good to know thanks, will update it to 50%.
No sorry I do not, which is why I didn't want to do it before, it seems like it's gonna be a chore lol One thing that can help though, I can compile the list of the break damage multiplier in the code, this should be a really good starting point
Some skills are straight up changed? The dead energy 2 words that it gives 10% more damage? Vanilla skill doesnt say that at all? Also the 10 talent point earth skill, is worded quite differently than vanilla. Vanilla says all break damage is increased by 50%, while with the mod it just says it does break damage every round. Thats VERY different? Are these just wording issues or are the skills made different? Thanks.
Everything you see is what you get EXCEPT for break damage (mistakes from my part notwithstanding of course, and I tend to do quite a few of them), this is amongst the last thing I gotta do, but to answer your first question, yes Dead Energy 2 does that, and so do Sweet Kill, First Strike and Teamwork (Teamwork is two different 10% more damage bonuses, a non-conditional one like the 3 other Luminas, and a conditional one that is active when you have allies on the battlefield and no dead allies (so it's inactive solo))
Hello! I’ve completed the Chinese translation based on the specific data from your publicly available files. However, I’m unsure whether it can be released publicly, so I need to obtain your permission. I hope you can confirm this as soon as possible, so more Chinese players can experience this fantastic game! Thank you for your time and support!
Absolutely, please do! All translations can freely be posted on Nexus or any other mod site, just credit me for the original mod and that's it. DM me if you need anything :)
253 comments
Condensed is personally my favorite over the regular BTV font, I have added an image that shows both his mod (condensed ver.) and mine active.
Base damage x multiplier1 x multiplier2 x ... x multiplierN
As far as I can tell, every multipliers are always multiplicative to each other, but always additive to themselves (any stacking mechanic is an incremental increase)
Let's take for example Ascending Assault:
Deals 250% damage, 1 hit.
Deals 30% more damage for each previous cast, up to 150%
With no multipliers, this will simply deal 2.5x your attack power on hit (let's ignore enemy resistance and armor entirely if they exist).
Let's assume your first cast of Ascending Assault dealt 2500
Now what if that was a crit? Simply multiply the damage with the crit multiplier: crits get a 50% more damage bonus, thus it will be a 1.5x multiplier (50% more damage = 100% (your normal damage) + 50% (the added damage))
In this case, a crit would be 3750
Let's continue, but this time with one instance of "previous cast" bonus to its multiplier
Non crit:
Base damage x previous cast multiplier
250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount)
2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 1))
2500 x 1.3
This results in a hit of 3250
Crit:
Base damage x previous cast multiplier x crit multiplier
250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) x (100% + 50%)
2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 1)) x 1.5
2500 x 1.3 x 1.5
This results in a hit of 4875
Two instances of "previous cast" bonus, non crit:
Base damage x previous cast multiplier
250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount)
2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 2))
2500 x 1.6
This results in a hit of 4000
Two instances of "previous cast" bonus, crit:
Base damage x previous cast multiplier x crit multiplier
250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) x (100% + 50%)
2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 2)) x 1.5
2500 x 1.6 x 1.5
This results in a hit of 6000
What if for those two last examples, you also had rank S in Perfection?
Simply add another multiplier equal to the multiplier of the rank, in this case it is a 200% more damage increase
Two instances of "previous cast" bonus, non crit, rank S:
Base damage x previous cast multiplier x rank multiplier
250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) x (100% + 200%)
2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 2)) x 3
2500 x 1.6 x 3
This results in a hit of 12000
Two instances of "previous cast" bonus, crit, rank S:
Base damage x previous cast multiplier x crit multiplier x rank multiplier
250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) x (100% + 50%) x (100% + 200%)
2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 2)) x 1.5 x 3
2500 x 1.6 x 1.5 x 3
This results in a hit of 18000
Let's go one step further and add in the QTE multiplier, which is simply another 10% more damage multiplier on success, doubled on a perfect, stacking until the skill completes.
Two instances of "previous cast" bonus, non crit, rank S, perfect QTE:
Base damage x previous cast multiplier x rank multiplier x QTE multiplier
250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) x (100% + 200%) x (100% + 20%)
2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 2)) x 3 x 1.2
2500 x 1.6 x 3 x 1.2
This results in a hit of 14400
Two instances of "previous cast" bonus, crit, rank S, perfect QTE:
Base damage x previous cast multiplier x crit multiplier x rank multiplier x QTE multiplier
250% x (100% + 30% x previous cast amount) x (100% + 50%) x (100% + 200%) x (100% + 20%)
2500 x (1 + (0.3 x 2)) x 1.5 x 3 x 1.2
2500 x 1.6 x 1.5 x 3 x 1.2
This results in a hit of 21600
Say, Picto A deals 50% increased damage, Picto B deals 30% increased damage and Picto C deals 25% more damage, the formula would be:
Base damage x (1+.5+.3) x 1.25 = Base damage x 1.8 x 1.25 = Base damage x 2.25.
Here's the results of some testing I did earlier tonight (using spoiler tag due to character and skill names):
1,209,506 - Not actually sure how it got that high with no damage boosting pictos/lumina. Medalum is dealing 12,799 with it's basic attack instead 10,577, a 21% markup, but that doesn't doesn't fully cover it. Tried a few other weapons and their basic attack matches their Attack Power, so I think Medalum is still bugged. Anyway, the point here is to show how different luminas affected that 1,209,506 damage. EDIT: forgot to multiply by 1.4 for the two perfect QTEs; the math checks out now (except that weird 21% gain on Medelum).
1,693,308 - Added Auto Death, Survivor, SOS Powerful and Greater Powerful for a 40% gain.
2,539,692 - Tried Augmented First Strike (increased damage), then removed and tried First Offensive (more damage) and got the same number, another 50% gain.
3,809,942 - Greater Powerful, At Death's Door (more damage) and either Augmented First Strike or First Offensive.
5,714,913 - Greater Powerful, At Death's Door, Glass Cannon (more damage), Confident Fighter (increased damage) and Augmented First Strike.
6,191,156 - Greater Powerful, At Death's Door, Glass Cannon, Confident Fighter and First Offensive. This is where you can see the damage difference between "increased" and "more". Augmented First Strike (50%) combined with Confident Fighter (30%), whereas First Offensive was treated as a separate multiplier.
The formula for the last two numbers are:
1,209,506 x 1.4 (GP) = 1,609,308.4 (round down) x 1.5 (ADD) = 2,539,962 x 1.25 (GC) = 3,174,952.5 (game still rounds down) x 1.8 (AFS+CF) = 5,714,913.
1,209,506 x 1.4 (GP) = 1,609,308.4 (round down) x 1.5 (ADD) = 2,539,962 x 1.25 (GC) = 3,174,952.5 (game still rounds down) x 1.3 (CF) = 4,127,437.6 (yet again rounds down) x 1.5 (FO) = 6,191,155.5 (now game decides to round up to 6,191,156).
Easier to read version:
1,209,506 x 1.4 = 1,609,308 x 1.5 = 2,539,962 x 1.25 = 3,174,952 x 1.8 = 5,714,913
1,209,506 x 1.4 = 1,609,308 x 1.5 = 2,539,962 x 1.25 = 3,174,952 x 1.3 = 4,127,437 x 1.5 = 6,191,156
I went a step further with the Augmented First Strike test and added Inverted Affinity (50% increased damage):
1,209,506 x 1.4 = 1,609,308 x 1.5 = 2,539,962 x 1.25 = 3,174,952 x 2.3 (ASF+CF+IA) = 7,302,389.6 (for some reason this rounded down).
EDIT: The apparent bug with Medalum reminded me of more damage bugs I found: Dead Energy II, First Strike and Sweet Kill all give 10% more damage (separate multipliers).
I assume the same calculation applies to weapon passives, but I haven't tested that out.
Anyway, thank you for all your hard work on this mod! It's a must have for me.
1. Make sure all Pictos that say "increase" are additive between themselves, whereas "more" work as multipliers
2. Some Pictos/Luminas have a hidden "more damage" clause: if yes, is that for both Pictos and Luminas or only one of them?
Augmented Aim
Augmented Attack
Augmented Counter I
Augmented Counter II
Augmented Counter III
Augmented First Strike
Burn Affinity
Confident Fighter
Empowering Dodge
Empowering Parry
Exhausting Power
Gradient Fighter
Immaculate
Inverted Affinity
Piercing Shot
Powered Attack
Powerful Shield
Shield Affinity
Sniper
Stun Boost
Tainted
Versatile
Warming Up
More damage:
At Death’s Door
Break Specialist (less damage)
Faster Than Strong (less damage)
First Offensive
Full Strength
Glass Canon
Roulette
Solo Fighter
Team Work (hidden 10% more damage, all allies alive, another 10% more damage)
Hidden more damage 10%:
Dead Energy II
First Strike
Sweet Kill
Team Work (if ur allies all alive, then another 10% more damage)
Someone made these calculations for Stendhal damage before the last patch: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11zYB1fpMAY0qRizklTDwX8wudMgVEM_LX-Vmnbyu6Rk/edit?gid=0#gid=0
Here Melarum is actually 242%, but that's because of the buggy part that got fixed, without it goes back to 121%, like Glaisum.
I haven't tested whether this happens with other characters, but given that it occurs within a subset of Maelle weapons, not just one. I would guess it does.
No problem! It's been fun testing this. To answer your points:
1. I've tried about half of them for "increase" and all for "more". So far, everything I've tested fits this math.
2. I'm getting the same hidden "more damage" whether the picto is equipped or the lumina.
That's cool! I didn't catch that one. Thanks for pointing that out!
Really interesting, and thank you for the link to that spreadsheet! I tried to find what separates those weapons from the rest, but don't see any patterns. I think they all have Defense as a secondary attribute, but so do others that don't get this boost.
Btw, if anyone's interested, I made another number-crunchy post under this mod: ALL Enemies Level 99. I highly recommend it for subsequent playthroughs to give enemies across the game more consistent values along with Increase HP-Speed-Attack of Enemies and Randomizer to fit your desired difficulty.
From what I could gather, Teamwork is a fixed 10% more damage bonus, and an additional 10% more damage (effectively 21% more damage total) if you have at least 1 ally, and no dead allies; I'm not exactly sure how to word it in-game, I'm open to suggestions
Only found one Picto that was incorrectly labeled as "increased damage" while it was actually a "more damage" bonus (Full Strength), and it does look like Pictos and Luminas all give the "hidden" bonus
Next step is going through all weapons, depending on how much stuff I will have to rewrite, they will either come out one character at a time or in one single update
- Test and implement break damage multipliers
- Check consistency of the wording used across the entire roster's kits
- Pretty much it for now, let me know if you have any requests or possible improvements
Observations:
Augmented Counter II says more damage now.
Sidaro has the damage increase on two skills now.
Did a lot of testing with counterattacks, I can confirm that Augmented Counter luminas stack additively, but they are multiplicative with the Weapon perk
! indicates critical hits
At Death's Door: Deal 50% more damage if Health is below 10%. (vanilla)
At Death's Door: 1.5x damage if Health is below 10%. (concise)
At Death's Door: Multiply all damage dealt by 1.5 if your Health is below 10%. (detailed)
Augmented Aim: 50% increased Free Aim damage. (vanilla)
Augmented Aim: +50% Free Aim damage. (concise)
Augmented Aim: Add 7.5% Attack Power to Free Aim damage dealt. (detailed*)
*note: Free Aim shots deal damage equal to 15% Attack Power.
Confident Fighter: 30% increased damage, but can't be Healed. (vanilla)
Confident Fighter: +30% damage, but can't be Healed. (concise)
Confident Fighter: Add 30% Attack Power to all damage dealt, but you can't be healed. (detailed)
Glass Canon: Deal 25% more damage, but take 25% more damage. (vanilla)
Glass Canon: Deal and take 1.25x damage. (concise)
Glass Canon: Mulitply all damage dealt and taken by 1.25. (detailed)
I was also thinking it might be nice to show how many turns buffs/debuffs last. For example, Accelerating Heal states it applies Rush for 1 turn, while Accelerating Shots states the chances of gaining Rush, but not for how long. It lasts for 3 turns, not including the turn you gain it. The Last Stand buffs last for 3 turns after reviving one of your allies. It applies at the start of your turn if you are fighting alone. I then had 3 full turns after reviving my ally before it went away. More examples:
Accelerating Last Stand: Gain Rush if fighting alone. (vanilla)
Accelerating Last Stand: Gain Rush for 3 turns if fighting alone. (concise)
Accelerating Last Stand: Gain Rush if fighting alone. Lasts 3 turns if no longer fighting alone. (detailed)
Accelerating Shots: 20% chance to gain Rush on Free Aim shot. (vanilla)
Accelerating Shots: 20% Rush chance on Free Aim. 3 turns. (concise)
Accelerating Shots: 20% chance to gain Rush on Free Aim shot. Lasts 3 turns. (detailed)
Good point on the duration, if it's missing a duration just know it's 3 turns (default hardcoded value for buffs/debuffs). Will add them as I see them/are reported back
If you take how the level 4 passive for Scaverim is worded now: "Deal 50% more damage with Skills per active Dark Stain," and apply the logic of "50% more damage" means multiply by 1.5, you could interpret it as Damage = Attack Power x 1.5 x # of active Dark Stains. I read it as Damage = Attack Power x (# of active Dark Stains x 0.5 + 1), which I think is right. "Multiply Skill damage per active Dark Stain: 1.5x, 2x, 2.5x, 3x" is the only way I can think to word it without it being too long. It might still be a bit ambiguous.
Didn't know about the default hardcoded duration but that makes a lot of sense. This game would benefit from tool tips that include that kind of information, or maybe including it in the Expedition Basics. I suppose they were going for a bit of ambiguity in their design to have people figure these things out by playing. It's the same thing for Status Effects. They don't say how long they last either, except Curse has the number over you.
1. Difference between more and increased
2. Multipliers that stack, stack additively to themselves (assuming you meant "you could interpret it as Damage = Attack Power x 1.5 ^ # of active Dark Stains")
3. The 3 turns thing is a hardcoded, global thing, but there is nothing to lose to still add (3 turns) to the skill descriptions
1-2 can be resolved with presenting the information in the mod landing page, which I need to update, whereas 3 is just gonna take a bit of time but that's it
Extensive testing and explanations have been done by the community in the posts here, please check them to your own leisure
Kimjsd, would you consider rebalancing some of the problematic outlier abilities (as a separate mod)?
I am in NG+ and having a hard time having fun. I am using mods to increase the difficulty, but it seems that certain moves are SUCH outliers that if I don't use them, the new HP values I am using are WAY too high.
I like to min/max, but not break the game doing so. So it's hard for me to just have an honor system and not use the OP abilities.
HOWEVER, if anyone else makes the rebalancing mod, it will need a patch to have the correct descriptions that your mod provides, so I figured best to just ask you!
Especially since its a single player game, I don't anticipate the developers worrying too much about balance-- and it would be unpopular with many players. But I'd love to be able to go through NG+ multiple times while still having a fair and fun challenge.
If someone else releases a good balance mod, please feel free to request a specific version of my mod for it
I've updated the weapon bonus that I gave, find out which perk has hidden bonus, have u checked it?
And I made some mistakes when testing, sorry for that.
h4nswm has already reported two things to me, one is particularly confusing: Dreameso level 10 and Augmented Counter II seem to use the same passive, but one is more damage and the other increased damage
Will test some more when I'm back on the computer
Oh please no don't be sorry, you have been extremely useful in making the mod progress way faster than it should have been
1.Use Verleso, luminaless, Attack Power 10105, counterattack damage: 93,471 = 10105*7.4*1.25(rank C)
2.Use Verleso, With Augmented Counter II and Confident Fighter, counterattack damage: 168,247 = 10105*7.4*1.25*1.8
3.Use Dreameso, Attack Power 9141, With Confident Fighter, counterattack damage: 197,857 = 9141*7.4*1.3*1.5*1.5(rank B)
4.Use Dreameso, With Augmented Counter II and Confident Fighter, counterattack damage: 273,956 = 9141*7.4*1.8*1.5*1.5
Are you trying to say that the game assigns the exact same string to both skills, but internally one skill is additive, and the other multiplicative?
If so, that sounds troublesome for the purposes of the mod. Probably best to leave the default string value, and include a list of unfixable skills in the mod's description. I'm not sure. Sorry.
If it's only that one particular perk though, imma be mad lmao
But Chalium 20 and Jarum 20 (Maelle) can additive with lunimas.
Was trying to figure out how to make Dreamso's level 10 perk use BP_LU_IncreaseCounterDamage, this line is probably deprecated, it has no numerical value in its description since the beginning
I don't get why it doesn't work, gonna try and figure things out further
LETS GO
(I think, Ive went done so many rabbit holes its all a blur at this point)
Kudos.
Main files uses percentages, but it uses double or triple damage when possible.
Will edit their descriptions to make it clearer
When Verso not in rank S, and with low critical rate, u do a critical attack or shot, the lightning strike may not critical.
So I think, "deal 50% lightning damage" will be better.
and do u know how to make break damage visible, so I can test the break damage bonuses.
No sorry I do not, which is why I didn't want to do it before, it seems like it's gonna be a chore lol
One thing that can help though, I can compile the list of the break damage multiplier in the code, this should be a really good starting point
Thank you for your time and support!