Battle Brothers
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hackflow

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23 comments

  1. schicantek
    schicantek
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    Hey, I was using your mod just fine on the prior version of the Legends mod 18.1. However, since they've updated to v 18.2 and newer, you mod has a new issue.  However, since they've labeled your mod use at own risk, I figured they wouldn't try and bug fix.

    It works correctly on campaign creation and any saves and loads, but as soon as I exit to the main menu, or quit the game and reload then your mod stops functioning.

    As a note, I have the exact same issue with the other retinue altering mods twf expanded retinue and the more retinue member slots. I'll try to cross post a report on those mods too.
  2. anl93
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    compability with "Editable Retinue Members" ?
    1. hackflow
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      Never tried that, so the only way to know is to try yourself. 
    2. anl93
      anl93
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      Compatible
  3. KKDragonLord
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    How about Surgeon:  50% chance to avoid permanent injuries (optional scaling with difficulty at 66%/50%/33%/25%), allows using extra meds at the turn of the day to reduce the number of days that serious injuries would take to heal, to the shortest amount.
    Other retinues:
    Minstrel: Higher boost to Renown from actions, 50% more from ambitions, makes Renown decay slower. Tavern rumors are free, cost of drinks is 1 crown per head, the entire company improves mood with each round of drinks
    Drill Sergeant: Teaches the perk "Student" for free to all recruits. Experience bonus no longer decreases with levels, it increases by 1% instead. Greatly reduces the cost of Training Halls, allows veterans to also benefit at the cap cost, and makes bonuses last for more battles (3/5/10 instead of 1/3/5).
    Quartermaster: Allows stacking any items that aren't perishable or have durability, especially beast parts, doubles stash size increase of each cart upgrade.
    Recruiter: Tryout is free and characters recruited in events have max base stats, no bad traits, weighted and above-average talents, reveals 1 extra positive trait in newly recruited units. Allows hiring recruits without their gear, preventing you from having to pay for unwanted gear.
    Brigand: Allows attacking caravans at night in secret with no hit to relations as long as no enemies are allowed to flee
    Paymaster: Prevents the men becoming upset if they don't get paid for just 1 day, doubles wage reduction, makes finding crowns more common after battle and increases crowns looted from camps and caravans, preventing company members from pilfering the loot they find.
    Alchemist: higher chance to avoid consuming components, if it happens it affects higher-value components. Allows the effect of consumed potions to last for 3 battles. Allows drinking up to 3 potions without getting sick. Doubles the creation of potions and grenades. When creating Snake Oil (with specific combinations of ingredients) it's possible to get one of each type of anatomist potion in normal runs (only consumable by anatomists).
    Negotiator: Increases by 50% how much Relations improve and decreases how much relations worsen with each action, making improving relations a faster and easier task. Increases by 50% the upgraded value of negotiated contracts.
    Cook: Increases the chance to find food after battles and the number and quality of foods found
    Lookout: Reveals the location of camps and ruins from examining the footprints of wandering parties
    Cartographer: Doubles the rewards from "Find Location" quests, make them appear more often (in addition, not excluding other quests), halves the time to get tips to find locations (so you get them when you are halfway there), and makes those tips be always free of charge.
    Agent: Informs if delivery contracts will have bad consequences like being intercepted by mercs/armies, spawn undead, or if a prisoner in a caravan claiming to be a noble is or isn't telling the truth. (Or it may add an option in dialogue to avoid those problems when they happen). It also may give you the chance to Parley with Mercenaries, Peasants, and Noble armies before battle, allowing you to avoid having to kill peasants, attempt to bribe Mercenaries to avoid an unwanted fight, and either have a chance to avoid a battle with a favorable relation army, scare them before battle if you have enough Renown, or if you so choose, Insult their commanders mothers, making their named champions and nobles decide to join a battle they would have just directed from afar.

    Blacksmith
    Surgeon and Alchemist, could considerably lower the cost of repairing, treating wounds and crafting items in town.
    All Retinues promoted will have their own, extra slot, and will no longer prevent taking other retinues in unlocked slots.
    1. hackflow
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      Hmm, maybe. 33% is not really reliable) sounds more like a way to spend money)
    2. KKDragonLord
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      I thought about 50% initially at level 2, but then I realized retinues don't get promo levels, and also thought that 50% could be too high, but if you think so, then 50% should work well. Maybe also make it optional to vary with game difficulty: 66% at Beginner, 50% at Veteran, 33% at Expert, and 25% for Legendary, if that's the case.
    3. KKDragonLord
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      I made some edits and added more suggestions, it took some tweaking but now they feel about right.
    4. hackflow
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      It's more interesting when some new opportunities are added, so pure numerical upgrades it saving money upgrades I like less. I.e. for money especially it often won't matter at the stage of the game you get these promotions. 

      This leaves Surgeon, Quartermaster, Brigand and Cook. Also Recruiters ability to make recent guys good, this just doesn't seem worth it, you may promote him and then never get any bro from event in a hundred days. For whatever reason many people want the event guys too be good though :)

      So Surgeon, interesting as I said, I thought of the chance to get less severe permanent surgery maybe in addition to a chance not to get it at all. Maybe only first time it something. 

      Quartermaster is interesting, but hard to implement, will definitely break savegames and how it supposed to work if you replace him?

      Brigand I don't really know how many people use this one at all. The idea is interesting though, usually raiding caravans are just not worth it. 

      Cook is nice, simple to understand and useful. 
    5. KKDragonLord
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      I too prefer upgrades that change gameplay than simply giving more money or making numbers bigger, but I also believe numeric increases can have a meaningful impact in the gameplay and in that monetary costs also influence behaviors and create gameplay positive and negative incentives.
      The game teaches you from the start to be very frugal with your money, which is what is behind making increasing renown important since it is the primary factor behind how well you are paid for contracts. This avaricious behavior ends up gatekeeping many mechanics in the game. Many upgrades that may seem to only have a monetary cost (and I think people may disagree with the impact of money and how early retinues matter to the bottom-line) have an impact in gameplay. For example the Scavenger, buying Tools, Meds and Arrows will weigh heavily not simply because getting those after battle allow you to explore for longer periods, but the force of habit of wanting to go to a place where they are cheap instead of just buying at normal above value prices is a powerful factor that affect where people will go, if they will continue to run around without a healthy stack, the decision process itself, etc.

      Another exceedingly common example of how increased monetary costs impact gameplay is the Tavern, many players wont even care to enter taverns because they don't want to spend money that is hard-earned at the first half of the game. Especially when spending 20+ coins for a rumor may not give you anything in return. The other mechanic completely avoided by force of habit is paying for drinks. You just worked your ass off to get 600 crowns gain after a contract, and paying for a single round of drinks costs 120+ crowns, which you WOULD do if it ensured all your bros would be happy so they get confident in the next battle, but then it only affects a third of your company and if you try to get the rest, people will get drunk and will be useless in battle. So I think that The Minstrel, even though it only helps to save money at first glance, will in fact encourage and enable the use of a mechanic the game itself gives negative incentives to.

      This also affects the use of the Repair functionality of Weapon and Armorsmiths, the use of Taxidermists in general, which by itself provides services that significantly alter gameplay, and even Temples and Training Halls tend to be avoided (btw Drill Sergeant could also significantly cheapen Training Halls, and allow veteran units to keep using it).

      Likewise The Negotiator retinue is one of the most picked and at the earliest opportunity, imo, because it allows the use of the negotiation mechanic without negative impacts to relations, which is something players usually care a lot about to the point of some never even thinking of negotiating contracts to just avoid any risk entirely.
      Normally the Negotiator only reduces the speed by which relations decay and recover, if they also increased how much relations are gained with every good action, it would have the effect of making getting to Allied with noble houses and especially City-states, less hard, and this is very significant to many players, since the feeling when building relations is one of restricting your gameplay to achieve a goal, which is currently a pain in the ass to achieve.

      Another very useful retinue in the gameplay aspect is The Scout, because it makes your company move faster, this has a very strong impact as it will A) ensure your company is faster, even if it is larger, which allows you to run from enemies in the map, catch enemies faster (which is usually a slog), explore the map faster, so even a small increase significantly improves the gameplay and quality of life in general.

      The Drill Seargent also makes a significant impact in the game itself, even if it is hard to notice at first, making brothers increase levels faster allows much more flexibility in strategically managing your company. As it allows new recruits to become more useful much faster, which is also the main factor when suffering significant losses and deciding to either start a new game or attempt to rebuild, this would be a positive incentive to keep trying after defeat and would make players a little bolder in attempting difficult fights more often. Also, XP at veteran levels have a steep curve and achieving the latest levels with bros is very difficult, this would mitigate the veteran leveling curve, which would be particularly impactful when playing with the Legends mod, which ups the cap to an impossible 99. Getting more XP would also improve some types of gameplay and units, such as cultists who require dumb or brain-damaged versions of elite backgrounds to be converted, and Bannerman greatly benefit from brain damage, and the greater the roster, the slower it levels.

      The Paymaster may seem to be a very uninteresting Retinue, and simply increasing its effects wouldn't make much of a difference at first glance, but it would have a significant impact in specific conditions, such as when playing with Gladiators, Nobles, and Elite units in general, which become very expensive quite fast. And finally, if the paymaster ensures you will save more money, it will pay for itself much faster, which is normally a big factor in choosing this Retinue since it is so costly to hire it. The costs also increase with level, and when higher leveled veterans become possible this also has a significant impact. But I will add another feature up there.

      I understand Quartermaster would be very hard to implement, but saving space in inventory is huge in this game, and I am sure most players would love to stack things as it mitigates the hoarding behavior that people tend to enjoy. The best way to handle the removal of this Retinue imo, is to allow stacked things to remain so and just not stack anything else after that, but it could also work by forcibly unstacking everything and throwing away the surplus from items on the top left to bottom right. 

      Event units are special, they have emotional value, and even the filthy Filly Fiddler earn a place in peoples hearts despite being bad, as Vagabonds tend to have s#*! stats. It is unusual to not have an event recruit in 100 days, as there are many such events which are common. And the free-of-charge Tryout may seem to only affect money, but would actually have a significant impact in gameplay and quality of life. I know this because I play with a customized cost-free version of the popular Clever Recruiter mod which allows me to tryout and dismiss recruits for free (dismissing cost is based on tryout), when you can see stats and refresh recruit lists for free, the excrutiating task of getting good recruits becomes much simpler and less tedious/annoying. This changes behaviors for sure, it costs nothing so why not do it? Normally, having to pay every time you want to check a candidate weighs heavily in the decision process, and when people spend considerable amounts of money for s#*!-rolled expensive recruits, they get considerably frustrated.

      The Alchemist uses monster parts for many of its products, and monster parts, particularly the stronger and more annoying varieties (especially the legendary versions) have a cost beyond their monetary value. Fighting Schrats, lindwurms, frost unholds, Hexen, is usually painful. So getting an extra of those hard to get materials, has the significant impact of making you feel like your fight was a pain in the ass to slog through, (wasting countless turns to net alps, waiting for those fkin Hexen to stop Hexing and just dying already, spending days to heal those Unhold/Linduwurm injuries) but thanks to the Alchemist your rewards were almost doubled, it's like two fights for the price of one! Also, using less components makes utilities such as potions and grenades far more common to use in battle.

      Every change would be more significant at harder difficulties and when playing with Legends because it emphasizes both the negative and the positive incentives.

      Another mod I use is the Tweaks and Fixes: 18 slot Retinue, which makes retinue slots unlock faster and gives me the peace of mind of not having to make decisions, since I'll be able to get every retinue anyway. May be another thing Promotions may do, is to allow the promoted Retinue to not cost a slot at all, so you can stack them up as you promote them.

      And I didn't copy-paste the suggestions to the Lookout, the Agent, and the Cartographer which I will do right now.
    6. KKDragonLord
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      Thanks for the input by the way, it helped me reconsider and come up with a few more direct gameplay-affecting ideas, which I added to the Alchemist, the Recruiter, the Paymaster, the Drill Sergeant, and the Surgeon
    7. hackflow
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      By the time you will promote Minstrel, and this one is usually not the first to hire, 20 gold won't matter for sure. And drinking tries to boost morale for 15 bros on average even if in result you get 5 boosts. If you want to boost more bros you drink more, which is limited by money plus getting drunk, which is an interesting game element. So you suggest saving irrelevant amount of money and breaking this little game mechanic, also getting rid of randomness.

      These are all the things I don't want to change. In later game you have plenty of money this mod just provides a way to spend it not to save it, this is one of the points.

      Another example would be Drill Sergeant, I understand his purpose as easing bringing new bros in later game, including replacing lost bros. Making him increase XP for everyone and more for bigger guys just breaks it - it will be even harder for new bros to catch up. So you are back at locked into your already leveled up bros and every loss being more bad. Besides leveling up becoming slower up is a core mechanic, which I don't want to go against. Also your new text is long, which I also consider a bad thing. The effect should be easy to explain in a single plain sentence.

      And I understand that money-only or numeric only changes may lead to gameplay or perception changes, I stand by my intentions though - there is too much money in game now, and no way to spend it meaningfully in later game and perception is just not a point of this mod. If people save on tryout and then get useless drunkards or even don't want to spend 20 gold for rumors then this is not the problem I am trying to fix in this mod.

      Given all this I will summarize the points behind my choices here:

      1. Sink money, not save it. (Trader is good in this regard as it provides you a way to spend money on named items in shops more).
      2. New things, no numeric only changes.
      3. No breaking existing mechanics.
      4. Simple to explain, no walls of text.

      There are some cases when I am ok sidestepping these, i.e. Bounty Hunter promotion is purely numeric but it is about a wide-spread want to have more champions both for more fun fighting them and their named items, there are several mods for it out here. Recruiter providing more info on tryout would also be good, however, there are too many ways to do it and no way to please everyone, so I just leave it to dedicated mods.

      Applying this principles to say Drill Surgeon will only leave 2 things: give Student to new Recruits, make Training Halls more efficient (but not for veterans). Which is ok, however, supplying the same perk for everyone is lowering variability of new bros, which I don't like. And training halls are not that common to find. The easy alternative might be: every new recruit get an extra level when hired. Easy to explain, strengthens the same purpose in a different way, doesn't have the downsides of the two above. Might be a little bit boring though, so something better is probably out there too, strengthening training halls is better in this regard :)

      The rest who pass this sift are: Quartermaster (but hard to implement and very error prone), Brigand (still not sure it's worth the effort), Cook, Lookout. So I will look into implementing these.
    8. KKDragonLord
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      Alright, good to know.
      Thank you for listening :)
      Good work so far!
    9. hackflow
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      I've implemented this for cook locally and it feels kinda useless so far - after a short testing - there is no much need for extra food like this, camps drop it enough already. I will probably remove it and will look for other ideas. 
    10. hackflow
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      Added an option to make event bros masters, i.e. max rolled stats plus extra talent, in my Elite Few - Master Bros mod.
    11. KKDragonLord
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      awesome!
  4. Reyghel
    Reyghel
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    Español: Gracias por crear el mod, de momento lo he probado en la versión 1.5.0.15 y funciona muy bien, he adquirido el Herrero y al Scavenger. Es un mod muy util. Español: Gracias por crear el mod, de momento lo he probado en la versión 1.5.0.15 y funciona muy bien, he adquirido el Herrero y al Scavenger. Es un mod muy útil. 

    English: Thank you for creating the mod, at the moment I have tested it in version 1.5.0.15 and it works very well, I have acquired the Blacksmith and the Scavenger. It is a very useful mod.English: Thank you for creating the mod, at the moment I have tested it in version 1.5.0.15 and it works very well, I have acquired the Blacksmith and the Scavenger. It is a very useful mod.
    1. hackflow
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      You are welcome. 
  5. RyuJeferson
    RyuJeferson
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    Hello, do you have plans to expand your mod to legends?
    1. hackflow
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      I don't know how big are changes in Legends about Retinue, I saw new graphics, names, prereqs, some effects but this mod might still work. I just didn't try it. 

      The thing is I am not playing Legends myself, do can't really test it. 
  6. joeprawn
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    What an interesting concept, I like it.
  7. cmonkeys
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    Haven't tried it yet, just wanted to say I love the idea!
    1. hackflow
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      Thanks. More promotion ideas welcome, i.e. for other retinue members.