If you use Plus UI Subclasses/Previewer/Dual Subclasses you will need to stop using it until it has been updated to support my mods. The dev of that mod has been away for school and is not doing updates.
Among other things, CF inserts spells, progressions, classes and subclasses into the game and helps keep mods from conflicting with each other. In this case, CF will insert the Skald subclass into the progression of the Bard class to make the Skald available at Bard level 3.
One thing CF can't do is prevent other mods that don't use CF from overwriting progression tables and spell lists. That means if you have a mod that doesn't use CF but does alter classes, subclasses, progression or spells in some way it may prevent my mod (and many other CF mods) from working.
If you don't see the Skald at all there are a few things you can try.
Make sure you are running the latest CF and it's dependency Community Library.
Move Community Library to the TOP of you load order and CF to the BOTTOM of your load order, which is where they should be always. If you have 100 mods, then 0 is the top and 100 is the bottom.
Move this mod mod farther down in your load order, but not above CL or below CF.
If you use Plus UI Subclasses/Previewer/Dual Subclasses you will need to stop using it until it has been updated to support my mods. The dev of that mod has been away for school and is not doing updates.
Against enemies: AOE sleep, AOE otto's dance, AoE command (approach), dominate person or beast. For "bad performances": tashas laugh, command (flee), AoE phantasmal force or killer. Due to high volume:AOE silence, confusion, destructive wave.
For allies: AoE calm emotions, AoE Dash/disingage or freedom of movement, AoE restoration, healing incense aura from devote's mace.
can't level past level 10 after respecing out of skald with a bard. "ACCEPT" button reads as "unselected options still available" or whatever, preventing leveling past lvl 10.
Hi, I have tried adding this mod to my modlist, but it seems to be oveeriting everything else.
I'm using the bg3 mod manager, doing the save and export to load the modlist, and for some reason this mod is overriting the entire list, unloading all the other mods. I have tested and it's only this mod, I have tried the other version and it works, but I rather have it as a subclass.
Awesome mod, is there any chance you would ever make a version where they learn extra attack? I'm so used to my pathfinder skald always being a melee titan lol, I know it might be a bit broken to add that to 5e.
As I'm about to enter act 2 with my Skald Tav, I can confidently say the extra attack is not needed. The only tradeoff is that the skald is not a turn one monster. Otherwise, I've been wiping the floor in every encounter so far, despite using combat extender, stronger bosses and additional enemies.
I play with difficulty mods (Honour Features Unlocker, Combat Extender, Stronger Bosses, Additional Enemies) and tactician difficulty, so my experience is quite a bit skewed compared to someone playing against the vanilla difficulty.
All the fights being harder means I long rest often and depend on the Skald's song of battle in almost every fight. The two abilities and the finisher are VERY strong compared to vanilla. However, the obvious tradeoff is that I can't really do damage in the first turn and have to depend on my companions to keep me alive/kill some enemies, while allowing them to take advantage of the songs' buff/debuffs. Maintaining the skald's concentration is a big challenge because enemies will always focus them.
If you decide to add extra attack, I'd suggest nerfing the two abilities. Otherwise, it's fine now.
That being said, the existing subclass as it is, is extremely op if you play without difficulty mods. I can see most battles ending within round 2 for more vanilla oriented playthroughs. Maybe add an optional nerfed version for closer to vanilla players.
P.S : This is entirely my subjective opinion and I would suggest talking to others for more feedback. :)
You said the two abilities and the finisher. Can you tell me which ones you're referring to?
The ranged and melee combo 2 attacks are basically copies of swords bard attacks with some short statuses applied. I could maybe adjust those to not do dazed and fear and instead do bleeds or similar. I could maybe dial back the ranged and melee finishers if you think they are too strong. The spells are strong single target cc and a copy of fireball, I like having the CC options.
I want Skald to be strong support and mid tier damage and it sounds like Skald is strong at both.
I've also been thinking about limiting the use of each song to once per combat. The haste song is already set up that way, but I think maybe the others should be too.
The combo attacks and finisher are all really strong. Adagio being only a BAP means I can do another attack or use a spell. That's fine on my modded difficulty because enemies have more hp, more AP/BAP and more spells and abilities. But on vanilla, the CC would probably become useless because you'd end up killing all but the bosses instantly. So yea, maybe keep the CC because skald is ultimately meant to be a support, but nerf some damage. ( Can't believe I'm suggesting a nerf, I hate those :P)
I'm going to scale back the bonus force damage on all three ranged and melee attacks in the chain. Additionally I am changing the Adagio to cost an AP instead of a BAP.
So it will be this...
Adagio - 1 AP (+spell slot if its a spell) Scherzo - 1 AP + 1 BAP (+spell slot if its a spell) Finale - 1 AP + 1 BAP + 1 Skald Inspiration (+spell slot if its a spell)
I think this is a good start, but I'm open to further tuning.
I think I will not add extra attack and just keep the bonus surge in. I don't consider the Skald to be an offensive beast.
I also play with a ton of difficultly mods. I think an interesting option would be a feature similar to Dread Ambusher at level 6 that rather than giving you an extra attack, gives you two actions points –but only for the first turn of combat. If you wanted to make it a bit less potent you could limit it to the 5e haste actions (one melee attack, dash, etc) or cast a cantrip. That way you're not doing nothing your first turn of combat if you get caught by a surprise combat (if you're instigating the fight you can always just begin the combat with Overture.
Skald is next on my list for unlinking from SE and CF. What this means is that at some point it will become a standalone class but will still basically be a Bard. I just can't slot it in as a Bard subclass without SE and CF. It will require a respec once I drop the new version but otherwise won't be any different than it is now. Other than maybe some of the tweaks you've mentioned.
I suppose that also means you'll be able to double dip and multiclass with Sword Bard if you really want to tear s#*! up.
Are there any known conflicts for this or your Dirge mod? Because these 2 are the only mods of 350+ that I can't get to work. All my subclasses & other class mods are fine. (I have no rogue subclass mods besdies your two.) Has anyone reported anything conflicting?
I've tried removing the "usual suspects" and ones that most likely would interfere, and I've also moved them to the very bottom of my load order (just above the framework), but neither has any effect.
No way I spot-check the 300 other potential mod culprits, so any possible culprits would be appreciated! (I wanted to give one of these, dirge or skaald, a try on my next run.)
They are both Bard mods, not Rogue mods. Assuming that you just did a typo and said rogue when you meant Bard.
There's no conflicts to my knowledge. They both use compatibility framework which tends to stop any conflicts. Also I'm sure you can see other comments here where lots of other people are using them.
If you have some other Bard mod that changes base Bard progression that could be a problem.
You won't see either of my Bard subclasses until Bard level 3, when you are able to pick your subclass.
If you use PlusUI Subclasses and Previewer it will also hide my mods because it hasn't been updated to support new mods made since early January.
I am definitely not updating to the nerf patch. I don't think it's needed literally at all and I play with 3 different difficulty mods so if it becomes any weaker I'm just going to have to play a different subclass. Not sure if the nerfs were based on feedback or something but it's very much not needed and I'd definitely suggest not balancing based on random people's comments complaining about balance.
I literally only removed 1d8 from Adagio and 2d8 from Scherzo. And required Adagio to use an Action Point. The action point usage was actually intended when I switched from Bardic Inspiration to Skaldic Inspiration but I forgot to change it. Originally Adagio was one BAP and 1 Bardic Insp. And I intended to remove the Bardic Insp and switch BAP to AP but I failed.
So really we are talking about 8 damage max off Adagio attacks, and 16 damage max from Scherzo attacks. And in exchange I put in scaling damage for both of them that maxes out at 3d8 by level 11.
This was not based on anyone's feedback, its based on my own gameplay and my feelings that it was a little overpowered to do that much damage AND that much buffing (from Songs) at the same time, especially at lower levels. An extra 1d8/2d8 doesn't sound like a lot when you're level 7 but at level 1-4 its huge.
There has to be a tradeoff somewhere for the sake of fun game play without everything being trivial. And trust me, at level 7+ the Skald gets abilities that make most encounters easy with the buffs/debuffs alone.
Like I said, if it's too terrible I will add the damage back in on the level scaling side. I don't want to add it back to base damage though because it unbalances the early game.
There may well be some other mod conflict responsible for this (over 600 in the load order, so...) and so not reporting as bug, but fwiw: Instant CTD when attempting to multiclass into the Skald subclass (at level 14 iirc; the first 11 lvls were Warlock).
Checking logs and doing some testing to try to identify what may be happening (too many leveling mods?), but wanted to pass along in the meantime since it's reproducible.
Ok, so I just tested it myself. Used a cheat to quick level a warlock to 11, then 2 more in Bard, then one more and selected Skald and did not CTD.
Obviously I don't run the same mods you do, but I do have 520'ish mods at last count, so its not a small amount. I also have a lot of other Bard subclass mods besides my own.
My only suggestion would be to move Skald lower down in your load order, below other Bard subclasses if you have any, and possibly even lower if that doesn't solve it.
Usually things like this are resolved by mucking around with load order.
Yeah, that's the plan of attack... I thought I had all my races/classes/subclasses/etc all ironed out (since they all ostensibly use Compat FrWk), but I may have bolted on some stuff to test (which may not have been CF-based) that I forgot about. So, it's pluck thru the order, one-by-one/binary search style.
Pretty sure it's load order conflict with one of my too many other mods. fwiw, Dirge leveled up beautaceously (respec'd at Withers & am enjoying that now).
Confirmed: Not a bug, but rather mod conflict(s) from me kerfuckling my load order by trying to jam in too many Level Curve / Multiclass / Max Level mods that step[ped] all over each other. Mea culpa. Mod on...
114 comments
This mod makes use of Compatibility Framework (CF) and Community Library (CL).
Among other things, CF inserts spells, progressions, classes and subclasses into the game and helps keep mods from conflicting with each other. In this case, CF will insert the Skald subclass into the progression of the Bard class to make the Skald available at Bard level 3.
One thing CF can't do is prevent other mods that don't use CF from overwriting progression tables and spell lists. That means if you have a mod that doesn't use CF but does alter classes, subclasses, progression or spells in some way it may prevent my mod (and many other CF mods) from working.
If you don't see the Skald at all there are a few things you can try.
- Make sure you are running the latest CF and it's dependency Community Library.
- Move Community Library to the TOP of you load order and CF to the BOTTOM of your load order, which is where they should be always. If you have 100 mods, then 0 is the top and 100 is the bottom.
- Move this mod mod farther down in your load order, but not above CL or below CF.
If you use Plus UI Subclasses/Previewer/Dual Subclasses you will need to stop using it until it has been updated to support my mods. The dev of that mod has been away for school and is not doing updates.I'm about to start working on 13+ progression for Skald. If you have any ideas for songs or combo abilities now's the time to get them to me.
I am also going to be adding at least two more Warhorn abilities.
AOE sleep, AOE otto's dance, AoE command (approach), dominate person or beast.
For "bad performances": tashas laugh, command (flee), AoE phantasmal force or killer. Due to high volume:AOE silence, confusion, destructive wave.
For allies:
AoE calm emotions, AoE Dash/disingage or freedom of movement, AoE restoration, healing incense aura from devote's mace.
I'm using the bg3 mod manager, doing the save and export to load the modlist, and for some reason this mod is overriting the entire list, unloading all the other mods. I have tested and it's only this mod, I have tried the other version and it works, but I rather have it as a subclass.
Could you ceck it out please?
I'm so used to my pathfinder skald always being a melee titan lol, I know it might be a bit broken to add that to 5e.
Skald already gets action surge which is one extra attack per combat. And at level 9 gets haste.
If I put in extra attack at level 6, which is when Valor and Swords get it, I would feel compelled to remove Action Surge.
I'll give it some thought.
Do you have any feedback you'd like to share?
I play with difficulty mods (Honour Features Unlocker, Combat Extender, Stronger Bosses, Additional Enemies) and tactician difficulty, so my experience is quite a bit skewed compared to someone playing against the vanilla difficulty.
All the fights being harder means I long rest often and depend on the Skald's song of battle in almost every fight. The two abilities and the finisher are VERY strong compared to vanilla. However, the obvious tradeoff is that I can't really do damage in the first turn and have to depend on my companions to keep me alive/kill some enemies, while allowing them to take advantage of the songs' buff/debuffs. Maintaining the skald's concentration is a big challenge because enemies will always focus them.
If you decide to add extra attack, I'd suggest nerfing the two abilities. Otherwise, it's fine now.
That being said, the existing subclass as it is, is extremely op if you play without difficulty mods. I can see most battles ending within round 2 for more vanilla oriented playthroughs. Maybe add an optional nerfed version for closer to vanilla players.
P.S : This is entirely my subjective opinion and I would suggest talking to others for more feedback. :)
The ranged and melee combo 2 attacks are basically copies of swords bard attacks with some short statuses applied. I could maybe adjust those to not do dazed and fear and instead do bleeds or similar. I could maybe dial back the ranged and melee finishers if you think they are too strong. The spells are strong single target cc and a copy of fireball, I like having the CC options.
I want Skald to be strong support and mid tier damage and it sounds like Skald is strong at both.
I've also been thinking about limiting the use of each song to once per combat. The haste song is already set up that way, but I think maybe the others should be too.
So it will be this...
Adagio - 1 AP (+spell slot if its a spell)
Scherzo - 1 AP + 1 BAP (+spell slot if its a spell)
Finale - 1 AP + 1 BAP + 1 Skald Inspiration (+spell slot if its a spell)
I think this is a good start, but I'm open to further tuning.
I think I will not add extra attack and just keep the bonus surge in. I don't consider the Skald to be an offensive beast.
I suppose that also means you'll be able to double dip and multiclass with Sword Bard if you really want to tear s#*! up.
line 134:
new subtable "1,1"
Should be:object category "I_Skald_Shortbow_VeryRare",1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
LOW_MysticCarrion_Trade_Magic
CanMerge 1
new subtable "1,1"
object category "I_Skald_Shortbow_VeryRare",1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
new treasuretable "LOW_MysticCarrion_Trade_Magic"
CanMerge 1
Lines 147 and 149:
object category "I_Skald_Shortbow_Legendary",1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Should be:LOW_Figaro_Trade
CanMerge 1
new subtabl1 "1,1"
object category "I_SkaldDrum_Legendary",1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
object category "I_Skald_Shortbow_Legendary",1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
(note the subtabl1 -> subtable)new treasuretable "LOW_Figaro_Trade"
CanMerge 1
new subtable "1,1"
object category "I_SkaldDrum_Legendary",1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Sorry for the trouble -- I like your mod!
Thanks again!
Because these 2 are the only mods of 350+ that I can't get to work.
All my subclasses & other class mods are fine. (I have no rogue subclass mods besdies your two.)
Has anyone reported anything conflicting?
I've tried removing the "usual suspects" and ones that most likely would interfere, and I've also moved them to the very bottom of my load order (just above the framework), but neither has any effect.
No way I spot-check the 300 other potential mod culprits, so any possible culprits would be appreciated!
(I wanted to give one of these, dirge or skaald, a try on my next run.)
There's no conflicts to my knowledge. They both use compatibility framework which tends to stop any conflicts. Also I'm sure you can see other comments here where lots of other people are using them.
If you have some other Bard mod that changes base Bard progression that could be a problem.
You won't see either of my Bard subclasses until Bard level 3, when you are able to pick your subclass.
If you use PlusUI Subclasses and Previewer it will also hide my mods because it hasn't been updated to support new mods made since early January.
It should be doing force damage equal to your CHA bonus + the level scaling.
I'll drop a fix here in a few.
So really we are talking about 8 damage max off Adagio attacks, and 16 damage max from Scherzo attacks. And in exchange I put in scaling damage for both of them that maxes out at 3d8 by level 11.
This was not based on anyone's feedback, its based on my own gameplay and my feelings that it was a little overpowered to do that much damage AND that much buffing (from Songs) at the same time, especially at lower levels. An extra 1d8/2d8 doesn't sound like a lot when you're level 7 but at level 1-4 its huge.
There has to be a tradeoff somewhere for the sake of fun game play without everything being trivial. And trust me, at level 7+ the Skald gets abilities that make most encounters easy with the buffs/debuffs alone.
Like I said, if it's too terrible I will add the damage back in on the level scaling side. I don't want to add it back to base damage though because it unbalances the early game.
Instant CTD when attempting to multiclass into the Skald subclass (at level 14 iirc; the first 11 lvls were Warlock).
Checking logs and doing some testing to try to identify what may be happening (too many leveling mods?), but wanted to pass along in the meantime since it's reproducible.
Obviously I don't run the same mods you do, but I do have 520'ish mods at last count, so its not a small amount. I also have a lot of other Bard subclass mods besides my own.
My only suggestion would be to move Skald lower down in your load order, below other Bard subclasses if you have any, and possibly even lower if that doesn't solve it.
Usually things like this are resolved by mucking around with load order.
I'm sorry I can't help more.
Pretty sure it's load order conflict with one of my too many other mods.
fwiw, Dirge leveled up beautaceously (respec'd at Withers & am enjoying that now).
Confirmed:
Not a bug, but rather mod conflict(s) from me kerfuckling my load order by trying to jam in too many Level Curve / Multiclass / Max Level mods that step[ped] all over each other. Mea culpa.
Mod on...