Would you consider revisiting Phantasmal Killer? A potential idea is change it to int save and allow it to apply damage on the first turn - would be cool to have the initial casting effect every turn. its just kinda weak for a concentration level 4+ spell
Can you make a version of this mod without all the changes to the damage types. The top half of changes are mostly fine as is, but the added effect of everything below is a little much imo
The spell Phantasmal Force changes damage type to the type target last suffered. Those listed effects only apply to the damage from Phantasmal Force spell
why do you think they suck? Its a bonus action spells which is quite valuable. But i never used them myself(not using druids), i need to understand problem better
they cost an action and bonus action. they dont proc extra attack for rangers either. Its not worth using over any situation with arrow of many targets being available, also costing an action and bonus action is such a huge cost because it can only be used once with haste
I like everything here, especially Witch Bolt might actually be usable at low levels. But I think you should consider buffing Phantasmal Force even more. It's competing with Scorching Ray, Hold Person and Blind as useful level 2 combat spells, and it requires concentration, which Ray and Blind don't. And as a concentration spell it is competing with Haste for the majority of the game, and good luck with that. Even if you buffed the damage to 3d6/round I think it would still be somewhat underwhelming and in honesty I probably still would never cast it.
But yea I don't even understand why they bothered coding Phantasmal Force, a level 2 spell that in a perfect world would take 9 rounds of concentration maintaining to do as much damage as a Scorching Ray. And this is a game where the majority of combats are resolved in 1-2 rounds, and a 3+ round battle is almost only because of some gameplay gimmick. Legit baffling to me how they released it that way in the base game.
It doesn't have to be 100% competitive with those spells, because it does something different. Scorching Ray is a damage spell Hold Person is WIS save or suck spell However PhForce is a debuff spell. It is INT based save and it offers great versatility of effects. INT saves are very low for most enemies. Consider casting it on a melee enemy at the start of combat. If he fails his WIS save against Frighten he will be stuck. If he doesn't you can then choose what you want to do with him. Poison to lower his accuracy? Acid to lower his AC? Deny healing or reactions? And most of those have no saving throw. Against spellcasters ability to guaranteed silence them or break concentration is quite OP.
As for Haste its lvl3 spell so it is not in competition really. And not every spell has to be the level of Haste power also because Haste comes with a very powerful drawback.
As for the damage, I will not ever be buffing that, because Phantasmal Force is not a damage spell. In PnP its an illusion that can have varied effect on the enemy, depending on what you shape it to be.
I understand your plea, because in BG3 Larian took a very "specific" approach to 5E rules and combat encounters which result in mild to severe imbalance, but I don't think its a reason to balance everything around OP or meta stuff. Just because in this game you can attack 9 times per round with Spear of Shar and Bhaalist Robe for 300+ damage with Fighter or cast triple upcast lightning bolt against wet enemies with Sorcerer doesn't mean we have to buff everything else to this level. Similarly, ending your combat early with Scroching Rays draconic sorcerer with advantage roll 3-4 times per turn if probably better than most alternatives, but in my opinion it's a terrible idea to use that as a benchmark for spell effectiveness.
Hallo, I very much like the idea of this mod, however I would like to report a bug with the new version. I was using the old version just fine, then upgraded to the newer version yesterday and since, when I try to save the game, i get the "Failed to save game, Error 516" message. Downgrading your mod to previous version fixed the problem. Anyone else encountered this problem?
Thank you for reporting this however I don't know how to fix it without a savegame :( You can try to remove Ray of Enfeeblement from your spell list via respec and then update, load and get it back.
Interesting mod that actually seeks to balance rather than just buff. I've just started my playthrough, but looks like you've done a commendable job with the balancing!
Any chance of adressing cantrips as well, perhaps as an optional file? :)
True Strike - Prime candidate for balancing for sure. Perhaps a Bonus Action with shortened duration to 1 turn, non-concentration? Strong but not OP in BG3 where a Bonus Action gives you full damage Hand-Crossbow attack.
Dancing Lights - Poor-man's Light (albeit it has some use as a trigger for Illithid Power Concentrated Blast). No idea how to balance this without making it too much of a clone of other light producing cantrips.
Resistance - Pseudo Dispel Magic/Countercharm, giving a target a chance to make a second Saving Throw to escape a Condition? 1 turn duration, no concentration. Possibly Bonus Action?
Sacred Flame - Undeads and fiends Save with Disadvantage?
Friends - Either OP on lower levels or annoying to use at Tactician. If possible, instant duration, have a WIS Saving Throw (save each use) and no concentration instead?
Thx that's a nice list, will take a look at those!
In regard to friends I think they removed people getting upset in the full version, I wasn't able to get anyone attack me after casting friends on them in release and I've been using it a lot. It was different in EA which I think was normal diff and I got people confront me about it.
Not sure if you're working on this, but thought of others. Blade Ward - Make it work like the Shield spell/Cutting Words using Reactions. Protect against a single attack in a round with a 3 turn cooldown, or protect against all attacks 1 round with a once per Short Rest cooldown. Trigger upon being hit by an attack.
True Strike v2 - Similar to above. Use Reactions to give Advantage on a single attack with a 3 turn cooldown, or all attacks 1 turn with a Short Rest cooldown. Trigger upon missing an attack.
Resistance v2 - Similar. Use Reaction to re-roll a failed Saving Throw once per Short Rest.
those suggestions are insanely powerful for a cantrip :\
In regard to those cantrip list I've been studying how its handled in tabletop homebrew as well as asking players about it, so the conclusion is following True Stike: I will try to make it last through the full turn, not just one attack. Maybe remove concentration too. I think that would make it similar to blade ward in function and also, just like Blade Ward, will give it much higher utility for Sorcerers and Eldritch Knights.
Dancing Lights: I am told that they have their uses opposed to Light spell, unfortunately BG3 take on dark areas is very light as opposed to EA or, say, Solasta, so the spell in particular doesnt shine, but there's not much I can do about them. Also if you get perk to use Illithid powers as a bonus action it becomes pretty good.
Sacred Flame: I was told its actually good, just not Larian implementation where every enemy has a lot of DEX saves. I would have to see what players on normal diff think about it.
Resistance: Still under review. Actually getting +1-4 on ALL saves is quite insane even for a leveled spell, much less a cantrip. So I dont know what else players want :\ I think the reason why its considered weak bc it want the player to get hit before it can take effect and even then you cant really tell if it helped or not.
Would hate for attempts at balancing becoming yet another semi-cheat mod.
That said, I don't think Blade Ward being able to give resistance against a single attack e.g. once per 3 rounds or one round per short rest, is stronger than pre-buffing and then soaking up an entire enemy group's first round or for a Sorcerer to extend duration to 4 rounds. Arguably weaker, just much more convenient/less annoying to use.
Same thing could be said about changing both True Strike and Resistance along the same line. Both are inconvenient/annoying to use, but could be made more accessible through the reaction system and balanced with a cooldown mechanic.
There are other ways to make cantrips more convenient without significantly changing them though. For instance, giving Guidance a short range instead of melee touch.
I understand. But the way I see cantrips they are more like fillers. They have to be kind of mediocre or underwhelming to encourage mages to use leveled spells, Eldritch blast aside, of course (which is more like a regular attack from martial class than a cantrip, really). This is the way they are designed in 5E and I think that Larian has done it a bad service introducing so many ways to increase its damage (such as wet condition and multiple items that add ability score to damage, so you very quickly have firebolts outperforming chromatic orbs etc). That's also a reason why I dont want to make cantrips usable per Short/Long rest, give it additional restriction like melee touch or otherwise limit those: it should not be so strong to be limited, it should be always accessible and serve as a filler when you don't want/can't use a leveled spell.
Blade Ward absorbing one attack: I think adding an ability, even less a cantrip able to negate an attack is a recipe for disaster. For example I would not want a mage tanking Grymforge Golem. I think Blade Ward is in a good place right now and does not require adjustment (at least not buffs). It can appear a little on the weak side but this is because defence is generally less preferred to offence and because of Larian overbuffing damaging cantrips.
Did you add upcasting for damage die of phantasmal force? It’s a waste of a GOO warlock spell slot without upcasting. I always thought it was weird they don’t have phantasmal killer alongside phantasmal force.
This is not really a damage spell, so no upcast damage. Not all Warlock spells have upcast too, but being able to easily break concentration of any spellcaster is good utility. It also can provide some synergy with dissonant whispers or Vicious Mockery if you use Tome Pact.
Considering Witch Bolt can be re-activated every turn, I think it makes a lot of sense you need to concentrate on the spell. The change I made already makes it competitive. Especially at higher levels as upcasting gets very good with d12 dice and wet status from Larian (I know that bonus WB does not get upcast, but still its another 1d12 die that can hit wet enemies too).
32 comments
But yea I don't even understand why they bothered coding Phantasmal Force, a level 2 spell that in a perfect world would take 9 rounds of concentration maintaining to do as much damage as a Scorching Ray. And this is a game where the majority of combats are resolved in 1-2 rounds, and a 3+ round battle is almost only because of some gameplay gimmick. Legit baffling to me how they released it that way in the base game.
Scorching Ray is a damage spell
Hold Person is WIS save or suck spell
However PhForce is a debuff spell. It is INT based save and it offers great versatility of effects. INT saves are very low for most enemies. Consider casting it on a melee enemy at the start of combat. If he fails his WIS save against Frighten he will be stuck. If he doesn't you can then choose what you want to do with him. Poison to lower his accuracy? Acid to lower his AC? Deny healing or reactions? And most of those have no saving throw. Against spellcasters ability to guaranteed silence them or break concentration is quite OP.
As for Haste its lvl3 spell so it is not in competition really. And not every spell has to be the level of Haste power also because Haste comes with a very powerful drawback.
As for the damage, I will not ever be buffing that, because Phantasmal Force is not a damage spell. In PnP its an illusion that can have varied effect on the enemy, depending on what you shape it to be.
I understand your plea, because in BG3 Larian took a very "specific" approach to 5E rules and combat encounters which result in mild to severe imbalance, but I don't think its a reason to balance everything around OP or meta stuff. Just because in this game you can attack 9 times per round with Spear of Shar and Bhaalist Robe for 300+ damage with Fighter or cast triple upcast lightning bolt against wet enemies with Sorcerer doesn't mean we have to buff everything else to this level. Similarly, ending your combat early with Scroching Rays draconic sorcerer with advantage roll 3-4 times per turn if probably better than most alternatives, but in my opinion it's a terrible idea to use that as a benchmark for spell effectiveness.
Thank you for your work and good luck modding!
Any chance of adressing cantrips as well, perhaps as an optional file? :)
I am considering buffing True Strike. Any other cantrips you think are worth getting looked at?
Dancing Lights - Poor-man's Light (albeit it has some use as a trigger for Illithid Power Concentrated Blast). No idea how to balance this without making it too much of a clone of other light producing cantrips.
Resistance - Pseudo Dispel Magic/Countercharm, giving a target a chance to make a second Saving Throw to escape a Condition? 1 turn duration, no concentration. Possibly Bonus Action?
Sacred Flame - Undeads and fiends Save with Disadvantage?
Friends - Either OP on lower levels or annoying to use at Tactician. If possible, instant duration, have a WIS Saving Throw (save each use) and no concentration instead?
In regard to friends I think they removed people getting upset in the full version, I wasn't able to get anyone attack me after casting friends on them in release and I've been using it a lot. It was different in EA which I think was normal diff and I got people confront me about it.
Blade Ward - Make it work like the Shield spell/Cutting Words using Reactions. Protect against a single attack in a round with a 3 turn cooldown, or protect against all attacks 1 round with a once per Short Rest cooldown. Trigger upon being hit by an attack.
True Strike v2 - Similar to above. Use Reactions to give Advantage on a single attack with a 3 turn cooldown, or all attacks 1 turn with a Short Rest cooldown. Trigger upon missing an attack.
Resistance v2 - Similar. Use Reaction to re-roll a failed Saving Throw once per Short Rest.
In regard to those cantrip list I've been studying how its handled in tabletop homebrew as well as asking players about it, so the conclusion is following
True Stike: I will try to make it last through the full turn, not just one attack. Maybe remove concentration too. I think that would make it similar to blade ward in function and also, just like Blade Ward, will give it much higher utility for Sorcerers and Eldritch Knights.
Dancing Lights: I am told that they have their uses opposed to Light spell, unfortunately BG3 take on dark areas is very light as opposed to EA or, say, Solasta, so the spell in particular doesnt shine, but there's not much I can do about them. Also if you get perk to use Illithid powers as a bonus action it becomes pretty good.
Sacred Flame: I was told its actually good, just not Larian implementation where every enemy has a lot of DEX saves. I would have to see what players on normal diff think about it.
Resistance: Still under review. Actually getting +1-4 on ALL saves is quite insane even for a leveled spell, much less a cantrip. So I dont know what else players want :\ I think the reason why its considered weak bc it want the player to get hit before it can take effect and even then you cant really tell if it helped or not.
That said, I don't think Blade Ward being able to give resistance against a single attack e.g. once per 3 rounds or one round per short rest, is stronger than pre-buffing and then soaking up an entire enemy group's first round or for a Sorcerer to extend duration to 4 rounds. Arguably weaker, just much more convenient/less annoying to use.
Same thing could be said about changing both True Strike and Resistance along the same line. Both are inconvenient/annoying to use, but could be made more accessible through the reaction system and balanced with a cooldown mechanic.
Blade Ward absorbing one attack: I think adding an ability, even less a cantrip able to negate an attack is a recipe for disaster. For example I would not want a mage tanking Grymforge Golem. I think Blade Ward is in a good place right now and does not require adjustment (at least not buffs). It can appear a little on the weak side but this is because defence is generally less preferred to offence and because of Larian overbuffing damaging cantrips.