No, I squished the subclass features down to 1-12. I could make a 1-20 version of the mod when I get the chance, but it’d just be changing the progression to unlock the same features at higher levels.
I installed this mod, and tried out a WoM monk for an hour or so on my testing saves (i tested it at level 3, level 6, and level 10). The mod functioned perfectly, and I love WoM monk thematically, but it felt very underpowered compared to Open Hand. I think i only used healing once or twice, so I was essentially playing a WoM monk without topple flurry (or the other flurries i guess lol, but they barely exist) who needs to spend Ki to do their necrotic damage AND they can only do so once a round. No save poison is admittedly quiet strong, and if i had prepared my party for it could have been a lot more useful.
The other two vanilla subclasses are also weaker than OH, but they have distinct niches that make them obviously different from OH. This said, OH is one of the subclasses that is notably way stronger in BG3 than in tabletop, and your implementation of WoM is about as close as you can get to tabletop, so this isn't really meant to be a criticism; WoM having utility and being a healer is kind of the point, and if i played one for a full playthrough instead of just a couple fights i'm sure the healing (particularly condition removal) would come up a lot more over time.
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it. To be honest, I’m not happy with how busted Open Hand is in BG3. They gave it way too many buffs and its DPS is insane. Manifestation is bad enough, but the ki restoration too? Makes it hard to make subclasses that feel as strong without being overpowered. I think I might add a buffed version of WoM for those interested, not sure when that’d be though.
Hi, does this mod work in Patch 5, and if not, do you plan on updating it for Patch 5? I understand if you're busy at this time, but I thought I would ask. Cheers!
Do you mean that the subclass isn’t showing up next to the other options? Do you know if the Compatibility Framework is working? Do you know if Monk 5e Adjustments is working?
I noticed the damage listed in the tooltip for First Strike / Second Strike doesn't include the bonus from Tavern Brawler when applicable. The actual damage dealt is correct.
Digging into the files a bit, the vanilla Monk attacks use "DealDamage(MartialArtsUnarmedDamage, ..." in the tooltip listings, so I tried changing Target_FlurryOfBlows_FirstStrike to use that, and it fixed the issue.
Before (wrong damage listed): data "TooltipDamageList" "DealDamage(LevelMapValue(MartialArts)+DexterityModifier, Bludgeoning)"
After (correct damage listed): data "TooltipDamageList" "DealDamage(MartialArtsUnarmedDamage, Bludgeoning)"
Looking at it now, the Tavern Brawler bonus missing wasn't the only issue with the old version - monks aren't forced to make unarmed attacks using Dex, they only get the option to do so, so the old version will be wrong for Strength-focused monks with or without the feat.
(Not relevant to the issue, but just as a tip - the BG3 version of Tavern Brawler is crazy OP, which makes it useful as a tool to balance out the faithfully-implemented Mercy Monk vs the overpowered BG3 Open Hand. Use Gloves of Dexterity to get 18 Dex then get Tavern Brawler and set Strength to whatever level produces a "balanced" level of damage. Or that's what I'm going to try now anyway...)
Thanks for looking into it! I actually have that very same tooltip fix already implemented in my Monk 5e Adjustments mod. I debated including it here but decided not to because (a) I don’t want to overwrite any base monk code (including tooltips) in a mere subclass mod and (b) since this action stems from the vanilla Flurry of Blows I thought it’d make sense to keep the tooltips consistent. I just figured I’d just add the subclass as its own mod and leave the various monk fixes to the other mod for those interested.
[Side note if you’re interested: I’m pretty sure Larian did the tooltip the way they did because when you class into lvl 1 Monk, you technically don’t have the class features yet so Flurry of Blows shows “1 damage” unless you hardcode it the way they did]
As for balance… yeah. Open Hand is so busted that I’ve been thinking about adding a buffed version of this subclass as an optional file. I’ve been pretty busy with life lately but it’s on my to-do list.
I think there's some miscommunication happening here. Either I'm misunderstanding what you're saying or you understood me. I was referring to Target_FlurryOfBlows_FirstStrike from your mod. That's not "base monk code".
Target_FlurryOfBlows in the base game is correct-- Ah! On second look, it used to be wrong in the base game, but was fixed in patches.
Now fixing the mod is what would make it consistent.
Oh, and completely unrelated to the above, but I just came across another issue: The Hand of Harm interrupt triggers when throwing the equipped weapon.
Edit: Replacing IsUnarmedAttack() with IsMeleeUnarmedAttack() in the condition fixes it.
Thanks for clarifying lol, I wasn't aware that Larian already fixed the tooltips in a patch. I changed my tooltips to show MartialArtsUnarmedDamage like in the base game files. I also fixed the Hand of Harm trigger to only apply to melee, I didn't know thrown weapons counted as unarmed attacks lol. Thanks for your help!
Is spending a ki point for "hand of harm" extra necrotic damage on attack ever worth it? I feel like I should just stick to flurry of blows if I want to do more damage with Ki points, but maybe hands of harm scales better later as I raise my stats?
Hand of Harm scales with WIS instead of DEX. I personally find Hand of Harm a more efficient use of Ki than Flurry of Blows because the extra hit from Flurry of Blows can miss while Hand of Harm is guaranteed damage when you land an attack. I rarely use both at the same time unless I really need burst damage. At a certain level, you can use Hand of Harm for free inside Flurry of Blows. The poison debuff also makes it really good utility.
Okay I'm level 6 or 7 now. Hand of harm feels good when its free, so I went into the file and removed the KI cost so that I could use it all the time. Its only for the first attack so it still feels balanced to me (I'm not that good at the game so to each their own.)
Also ended up adding some range to the healing spell since having to walk back into an allies melee range after engaging an enemy made combat feel a bit clunky. (having to deal with opportunity attacks while disengaging since I didn't grab the "mobile" feat.) and also all the turns where I didn't have enough movement to reach my teammates anyway since I often have everyone scattered.
The mobile feat:
Your movement speed increases, and difficult terrain doesn't slow you down when you Dash. If you move after making a melee attack, you don't provoke Opportunity Attacks from your target.
I don't know much about balancing, or how the way of mercy works for the tabletop monks, but I think "mobile" should be built into the class somehow if the intended way to play is to punch an enemy and then walk over to heal an ally. Or at least give a free jump action after hitting an enemy so we can try jumping to an allys position. Would also let us invest in jump distance increasing feats and items to take advantage of it.
For now I've been using throwing weapons so that I don't have to stray too far from my allies.
45 comments
Do you have the Community Library at the beginning of your load order (req for CF) and the Compatibility Framework at the end?
Do you have any other monk mods?
The other two vanilla subclasses are also weaker than OH, but they have distinct niches that make them obviously different from OH. This said, OH is one of the subclasses that is notably way stronger in BG3 than in tabletop, and your implementation of WoM is about as close as you can get to tabletop, so this isn't really meant to be a criticism; WoM having utility and being a healer is kind of the point, and if i played one for a full playthrough instead of just a couple fights i'm sure the healing (particularly condition removal) would come up a lot more over time.
Thank you for the work on the mod.
Got the BG3 Modmanger with the following mods active:
5e spells (working)
Compatibility framework
Monk Subclass WAy of mercy
Monk 5e Adjustments
Monk 5e Adj Mercy Patch
I am a mod newbie, could be that I miss something pretty obvious.
Thanks a lot for helping!
Digging into the files a bit, the vanilla Monk attacks use "DealDamage(MartialArtsUnarmedDamage, ..." in the tooltip listings, so I tried changing Target_FlurryOfBlows_FirstStrike to use that, and it fixed the issue.
Before (wrong damage listed):
data "TooltipDamageList" "DealDamage(LevelMapValue(MartialArts)+DexterityModifier, Bludgeoning)"
After (correct damage listed):
data "TooltipDamageList" "DealDamage(MartialArtsUnarmedDamage, Bludgeoning)"
Looking at it now, the Tavern Brawler bonus missing wasn't the only issue with the old version - monks aren't forced to make unarmed attacks using Dex, they only get the option to do so, so the old version will be wrong for Strength-focused monks with or without the feat.
(Not relevant to the issue, but just as a tip - the BG3 version of Tavern Brawler is crazy OP, which makes it useful as a tool to balance out the faithfully-implemented Mercy Monk vs the overpowered BG3 Open Hand. Use Gloves of Dexterity to get 18 Dex then get Tavern Brawler and set Strength to whatever level produces a "balanced" level of damage. Or that's what I'm going to try now anyway...)
[Side note if you’re interested: I’m pretty sure Larian did the tooltip the way they did because when you class into lvl 1 Monk, you technically don’t have the class features yet so Flurry of Blows shows “1 damage” unless you hardcode it the way they did]
As for balance… yeah. Open Hand is so busted that I’ve been thinking about adding a buffed version of this subclass as an optional file. I’ve been pretty busy with life lately but it’s on my to-do list.
I think there's some miscommunication happening here. Either I'm misunderstanding what you're saying or you understood me.I was referring to Target_FlurryOfBlows_FirstStrike from your mod. That's not "base monk code".
Target_FlurryOfBlows in the base game is correct--
Ah! On second look, it used to be wrong in the base game, but was fixed in patches.
Now fixing the mod is what would make it consistent.
Edit: Replacing IsUnarmedAttack() with IsMeleeUnarmedAttack() in the condition fixes it.
Also ended up adding some range to the healing spell since having to walk back into an allies melee range after engaging an enemy made combat feel a bit clunky. (having to deal with opportunity attacks while disengaging since I didn't grab the "mobile" feat.) and also all the turns where I didn't have enough movement to reach my teammates anyway since I often have everyone scattered.
The mobile feat:
I don't know much about balancing, or how the way of mercy works for the tabletop monks, but I think "mobile" should be built into the class somehow if the intended way to play is to punch an enemy and then walk over to heal an ally. Or at least give a free jump action after hitting an enemy so we can try jumping to an allys position. Would also let us invest in jump distance increasing feats and items to take advantage of it.
For now I've been using throwing weapons so that I don't have to stray too far from my allies.