Hey guys, Update Version 2.0 onwards should have fixed the reports of this mod not working in Honour Mode, plus added more checks to avoid unintended item interactions. I took some time to finally figure this one out but I couldn't have done it without mod author Celes' assistance (creator of 5e Spells and Expansion mods). Thank you everyone for the reports.
Hi, I'm having an issue where this mod alone would cause potent robe to no longer apply to booming blade in honor mode. Is this an intended interaction? Thanks!
Just checked and I actually already made BB to work with Potent Robe to work even in Honour Mode. Most likely you are having a mod conflict (another mod overwriting my changes to Booming Blade or Potent Robe). Or you are not using the base-game Booming Blade and may be using BB from another mod or something.
I think this is a great mod and I feel for you in having to keep updating it as new items are found to be not working. However, it's got me thinking. Are these things definitely bugs, or did Larian make a conscious decision to implement the spell and it's interactions with items in a particular way (maybe so as not to make the spell too overpowered?). I'm curious as to people's thoughts and how we can be certain we are dealing with bugs. Please do not think this is criticism of your mod or the reason for it, it's idle speculation and rampant curiosity!
This is a bug in the sense that it goes against the whole game-design of Larian and every other spell that interacts with other game mechanics and items properly even in Honour Mode. You may think the reason is ''they did this on purpose so it's not OP'' but that's far from being the case.
The truth is that enabling Booming Blade to outright interact with all appropriate items with no restrictions, doesn't make it any more overpowered than any other strong spell playing in non-Honour Mode, where damage riders start triggering each and the balance of the game swiftly gets broken, but that's just how things in base-game work in non-Honour Mode with other items because of how Larian programmed their items.
Larian intentionally chose to dial down these item interactions in Honour Mode to avoid all these balance problems, to have a ''proper'' system where unintended interactions don't happen, which is why most of us that care about balance always play on the Honour Mode ruleset. But that doesn't mean that Larian making Booming Blade not work in Honour Mode (and barely work in non-Honour Mode) with things is because of this. We can confidently conclude why Larian did this, if we analyze the consequences of enabling BB to work with items:
It's easier to disable BB interactions than to go through every item and class feature to program it to behave properly when interacting with this all-new category of cantrip, that is, BB is the only cantrip in the game that's also a Weapon Attack and spell in the normal sense that does both direct damage and inflicts a status, and it is because of this special case, this combination of categories, that it has so many problematic interactions if you just ''open the gates'' for it to interact with everything without any curation and adjustments. All that work they chose to avoid because it's easier... but that's exactly what THIS mod is for, to ''open the gates'' BUT at the same time take the time and effort to adjust things so they work properlythe same way other items and spells interact in Honour Mode.
They didn't even add the Thunder damage flag to BB, that's something so basic that's it's clear they just wanted nothing to do with it, and it's not because it breaks the game to have BB working, it's just that they didn't want to bother testing and making it work. The following point further proves this.
The most important thing: BB HAS EXISTED IN BG3 FOR A LONG TIME, thanks to 5e Spells mod by Celes. And he had to do similar things to what I did here for the spell to work properly. And yet no one has been saying ''BB from 5e Spells breaks the game balance!'', becase he made sure that it works following the rest of the rules of the game (in Honour Mode). So this is the most important argument for proving that it's not OP to enable BB to work like this... we have been having people ''testing'' playing this way for a long time by now and it has worked great within BG3's game balance.
Because of all these reasons, the conclussion is that Larian probably just chose to go the easy way, which is to add this new type of cantrip but to not bother with making it work properly with all the previous game mechanics and items (just remove the Thunder damage flag and make it literally not work in Honour Mode and call it a day), since this was a free patch after all. This is something that has been observed in the past with Larian development in games so there is a precedent for this. Just look at how Interrupts actually have a ''Cooldown'' field in their parameters, yet it literally doesn't do anything and instead Larian handles the cooldowns of all interrupts in the game using hidden action resources because it was easier than trying to fix their interrupt cooldown system. They have never fixed it and will probably never will.
I don't blame Larian for taking the easy way here, at the end of the day this was a free patch for everyone and I appreciate their effort, but I think it's self-evident when you start analyzing how every item and spell is coded in the game, how they work different in non-Honour vs in Honour mode, and what Larian did (and how they did it) with BB's implementation that they just did it this way to avoid further development costs and time, and definitely not because ''it's their intended vision'' nor ''it would be unbalanced otherwise''.
I don't think Larian will ever change this so I believe this mod will remain useful regardless of game updates.
As a final note I'll add that I'm VERY conscious and caring about Game Balance and all my mods are carefully crafted and adjusted so they balanced in the game (save some exceptions like Commissioned mods where I follow someone else's guidelines). I would have never made this mod if it would lead to an imbalanced result.
Many thanks for the detailed explanation. I really appreciate the time taken to post that. I also appreciate the mod, making things work properly is always a good thing!
chizfreak, hello. Am I understanding correctly that you're manually adjusting the synergy of the 'Booming Blade' focus for each item? For example, I'm using mods https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2987?tab=posts&jump_to_comment=153757980 and https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/15529. What they have in common is that they add damage to spell foci in the amount of the class's spellcasting ability modifier. The 'Booming Blade' focus doesn't account for this additional damage and doesn't add the damage to thunder damage.
Yes, that is to be expected as the fix I apply is to the base-game's items.
Depending on the modded item's code, they may not work with Booming Blade in Honour Mode. This is because in the base-game Booming Blade is modified by Larian in Honour Mode so it ignores all damage bonuses and things that activate ''on damage events''; it is a thing done by Larian and it is not caused by this mod, it's the base-game's behaviour basically.
What this bugfix does (besides adding the missing Thunder DamageType flag to Booming Blade) is apply small localized fixes to the appropiate base-game items so they still work with Booming Blade, even with the Honour-Mode's ruleset change in place. I intentionally chose to not revert the Honour Mode rule-change as doing that WILL lead to duplicate damage bonuses/riders and weird behaviours as it often happens when combining many magical items and not playing in Honour Mode.
I could add an optional file called ''Modded items BB Bugfix'' in which I could manually extend this bugfix to support each modded item so they also gain the benefits of this bugfix, which is doable, but would get prioritized based on how many people request a specific item mod as it would have to be done on a per-mod basis.
Creating an additional file for the mod is not a bad idea. I think it will be difficult to maintain from a programming perspective. Mods will get updated, and you'll have to update this mod too. Maybe it would be easier for you to create a tool that would allow developers to add support for your mod in their own mods?"This translation preserves the context of discussing Baldur's Gate 3 mod development, specifically addressing the challenges of maintaining cross-mod compatibility when various mods receive updates. The suggestion involves creating a tool or framework that would allow other mod creators to more easily implement compatibility with your mod directly in their own work.
This mod is giving me an error in BG3MM when i try to export the load order regardless of where in the order i place it.
Missing Mods in Load Order "CrossplayUI (Dependency)"
Edit: actually the mod was updated in the three hours it took me to actually try and export the load order from when i downloaded the mod, one sec let me download the most recent update instead of the one from yesterday
That's a bug related to BG3ModManager, not to this mod. It's usually fixed by updating BG3ModManager. It just mainly affects new mods like this one because it's BG3MM getting confused with the dependencies of Patch 8 mods, afaik.
For anyone unaware of how to update BG3MM safely, just use the Check For Updates function under the Help tab within BG3MM and follow the instructions/download and install any .NET updates or other newer versions of prerequisites that the updater tells you to grab, and you should be good to go.
I think Diadem of spell synergy might be broken now. It says that when applying a condition to an enemy it gives arcane synergy but even going into stealth triggers it for me. Also casting any kind of spell in non-enemies also triggers it which it shouldnt. In honour mode. Can you take a look?
Thanks so much for this mod! I found something, the Diadem of Arcane Synergy gives you charges for Arcane Synergy when applying a condition. In my Tactician save, applying the Booming Blade condition triggered it but in my custom mode with honor mode rules it doesn't trigger anymore.
What do you mean exactly? If you don't want mod updates, don't install them? This mod receives a lot of updates because Larian literally released a half-baked implementation, so I need to re-implement the whole thing so it works with every mechanic/item in the game. It takes time to go through all of them and as people keep reporting them I also adjust or add more fixes so the cantrip works with every possible thing that it should.
It seems like raw bonus damage still doesn't work properly in version 2.4. The bonus damage effect only seems to trigger when the target moves—maybe that's intended, or maybe it's a bug? Also, I suspect that using Shadow Blade might be interfering with the effect.
Hey, yeah lol, I included the bugfix but I forgot to ''activate'' it before exporting and uploading the mod haha. Sorry for that. Fixed now in Update Version 2.4.1.
Hey, thank you for quick reply, it works perfectly inside combat, but I notice that when my Tav strikes an enemy outside combat and first round inside combat, the ring doesn't trigger the damage bonus. Also, when my target moves(booming blade conditon), the thunder damage of the ring doesn't trigger at all.
-condition(not work)
_outside combat attack and first combat round(not work)
_inside combat attack(work) (EDIT: Also, it seems like Booming Blade treats this ring's bonus damage separately, while other spell damage does not. Don’t know if this affects the damage rider in normal difficulty because I’m currently playing on Honour Mode.)
Hope this help you improve your mod and thank for your hard work.
Hello. I did a small revision in Update Version 2.4.2. I couldn't really reproduce your issue of the damage bonus not triggering on combat start or when attacking from outside of combat, but maybe this change helps with consistency in the detection.
As far as I know, from looking at the way the status is coded, the Booming Blade condition that damages the enemy when they move should NOT be affected by most items (including the Ring of the Absolute) on the caster. I think this is intentional by Larian and not a bug. If you look at the combat log when the condition triggers, the damage is attributed to the enemy itself, saying the enemy did Thunder damage to itself, clearly stated when the enemy dies from this damage (the log says the enemy killed itself). This is why bonuses don't apply, because you are not doing the damage actually, the enemy is doing it to itself (and I'm not sure I can change that without completely redesigning Booming Blade, which could a possibility but I don't think it's worth for a SINGLE item that adds 1 damage point LOL). Maybe in non-honour mode it works but I don't think it should work at any point to be honest.
That aside, I have tested with Shadow Blade and it doesn't change my results (everything works as expected with or without Shadow Blade).
Ah, so it works like that. At first, I thought it was a bug because Reverberation triggered the ring's bonus damage. Now I realize the ring only triggers on damage dealt by player, not when enemies hurt themselves — that's a new detail I hadn’t noticed. Thank you for taking the time to explain it.
I received a warning when using this mod [Mod Configuration Menu][WARN][C]: Mod 'Booming Blade BUGFIX' requires 'GustavX' version 4.8.100.6805551 or higher, but loaded version is 4.8.30.6749281. Please update GustavX. But my game is already the latest.
80 comments
The truth is that enabling Booming Blade to outright interact with all appropriate items with no restrictions, doesn't make it any more overpowered than any other strong spell playing in non-Honour Mode, where damage riders start triggering each and the balance of the game swiftly gets broken, but that's just how things in base-game work in non-Honour Mode with other items because of how Larian programmed their items.
Larian intentionally chose to dial down these item interactions in Honour Mode to avoid all these balance problems, to have a ''proper'' system where unintended interactions don't happen, which is why most of us that care about balance always play on the Honour Mode ruleset. But that doesn't mean that Larian making Booming Blade not work in Honour Mode (and barely work in non-Honour Mode) with things is because of this. We can confidently conclude why Larian did this, if we analyze the consequences of enabling BB to work with items:
- It's easier to disable BB interactions than to go through every item and class feature to program it to behave properly when interacting with this all-new category of cantrip, that is, BB is the only cantrip in the game that's also a Weapon Attack and spell in the normal sense that does both direct damage and inflicts a status, and it is because of this special case, this combination of categories, that it has so many problematic interactions if you just ''open the gates'' for it to interact with everything without any curation and adjustments. All that work they chose to avoid because it's easier... but that's exactly what THIS mod is for, to ''open the gates'' BUT at the same time take the time and effort to adjust things so they work properly the same way other items and spells interact in Honour Mode.
- They didn't even add the Thunder damage flag to BB, that's something so basic that's it's clear they just wanted nothing to do with it, and it's not because it breaks the game to have BB working, it's just that they didn't want to bother testing and making it work. The following point further proves this.
- The most important thing: BB HAS EXISTED IN BG3 FOR A LONG TIME, thanks to 5e Spells mod by Celes. And he had to do similar things to what I did here for the spell to work properly. And yet no one has been saying ''BB from 5e Spells breaks the game balance!'', becase he made sure that it works following the rest of the rules of the game (in Honour Mode). So this is the most important argument for proving that it's not OP to enable BB to work like this... we have been having people ''testing'' playing this way for a long time by now and it has worked great within BG3's game balance.
- Because of all these reasons, the conclussion is that Larian probably just chose to go the easy way, which is to add this new type of cantrip but to not bother with making it work properly with all the previous game mechanics and items (just remove the Thunder damage flag and make it literally not work in Honour Mode and call it a day), since this was a free patch after all. This is something that has been observed in the past with Larian development in games so there is a precedent for this. Just look at how Interrupts actually have a ''Cooldown'' field in their parameters, yet it literally doesn't do anything and instead Larian handles the cooldowns of all interrupts in the game using hidden action resources because it was easier than trying to fix their interrupt cooldown system. They have never fixed it and will probably never will.
- I don't blame Larian for taking the easy way here, at the end of the day this was a free patch for everyone and I appreciate their effort, but I think it's self-evident when you start analyzing how every item and spell is coded in the game, how they work different in non-Honour vs in Honour mode, and what Larian did (and how they did it) with BB's implementation that they just did it this way to avoid further development costs and time, and definitely not because ''it's their intended vision'' nor ''it would be unbalanced otherwise''.
- I don't think Larian will ever change this so I believe this mod will remain useful regardless of game updates.
- As a final note I'll add that I'm VERY conscious and caring about Game Balance and all my mods are carefully crafted and adjusted so they balanced in the game (save some exceptions like Commissioned mods where I follow someone else's guidelines). I would have never made this mod if it would lead to an imbalanced result.
I hope all this was convicing enough.Depending on the modded item's code, they may not work with Booming Blade in Honour Mode. This is because in the base-game Booming Blade is modified by Larian in Honour Mode so it ignores all damage bonuses and things that activate ''on damage events''; it is a thing done by Larian and it is not caused by this mod, it's the base-game's behaviour basically.
What this bugfix does (besides adding the missing Thunder DamageType flag to Booming Blade) is apply small localized fixes to the appropiate base-game items so they still work with Booming Blade, even with the Honour-Mode's ruleset change in place. I intentionally chose to not revert the Honour Mode rule-change as doing that WILL lead to duplicate damage bonuses/riders and weird behaviours as it often happens when combining many magical items and not playing in Honour Mode.
I could add an optional file called ''Modded items BB Bugfix'' in which I could manually extend this bugfix to support each modded item so they also gain the benefits of this bugfix, which is doable, but would get prioritized based on how many people request a specific item mod as it would have to be done on a per-mod basis.
Missing Mods in Load Order
"CrossplayUI (Dependency)"
Edit: actually the mod was updated in the three hours it took me to actually try and export the load order from when i downloaded the mod, one sec let me download the most recent update instead of the one from yesterday
For anyone unaware of how to update BG3MM safely, just use the Check For Updates function under the Help tab within BG3MM and follow the instructions/download and install any .NET updates or other newer versions of prerequisites that the updater tells you to grab, and you should be good to go.
This should be fixed now in Update Version 2.5. Make sure to update.
Ring of Absolute Force interaction should be fixed now in Update Version 2.4.
Hey, thank you for quick reply, it works perfectly inside combat, but I notice that when my Tav strikes an enemy outside combat and first round inside combat, the ring doesn't trigger the damage bonus. Also, when my target moves(booming blade conditon), the thunder damage of the ring doesn't trigger at all.
(EDIT: Also, it seems like Booming Blade treats this ring's bonus damage separately, while other spell damage does not. Don’t know if this affects the damage rider in normal difficulty because I’m currently playing on Honour Mode.)
Hope this help you improve your mod and thank for your hard work.
As far as I know, from looking at the way the status is coded, the Booming Blade condition that damages the enemy when they move should NOT be affected by most items (including the Ring of the Absolute) on the caster. I think this is intentional by Larian and not a bug. If you look at the combat log when the condition triggers, the damage is attributed to the enemy itself, saying the enemy did Thunder damage to itself, clearly stated when the enemy dies from this damage (the log says the enemy killed itself). This is why bonuses don't apply, because you are not doing the damage actually, the enemy is doing it to itself (and I'm not sure I can change that without completely redesigning Booming Blade, which could a possibility but I don't think it's worth for a SINGLE item that adds 1 damage point LOL). Maybe in non-honour mode it works but I don't think it should work at any point to be honest.
That aside, I have tested with Shadow Blade and it doesn't change my results (everything works as expected with or without Shadow Blade).
[Mod Configuration Menu][WARN][C]: Mod 'Booming Blade BUGFIX' requires 'GustavX' version 4.8.100.6805551 or higher, but loaded version is 4.8.30.6749281.
Please update GustavX.
But my game is already the latest.