A Bounty Hunter or Crusader gonna be a really fun as a next custom class, and i want ask a question about the flagellant class, is it possible add more skills like Exsanguinate, Reclaim, Redeem or a passive like Punish that make you deal less damage but make the enemy bleed?
Like the idea conceptually, but wanted to ask about one of the features:
While not wearing armor or holding a shield, you can add your Charisma, Constitution, and Dexterity or Strength (whichever is greater) modifiers to your Armor Class.
Depending on how this is implemented, this could mean a pretty high AC. Barbarians get 10+DEX+CON. Monks get 10+DEX+WIS. Adding three stats would make your AC very high, especially when you get to choose freely between Strength and Dexterity. That undercuts the trade-off of Penance, while also being something, say, a Sorcerer could dip for a level.
I'd consider removing one of the stats. Which one, I'm of two minds of. If CON is part of the AC calculation, you still encourage the player to pump up their hitpoints. I think this concept works better when you are taking some hits, but just have the health to absorb and roll with them. But Paladins are already torn between a few stats, and encouraging them to pump CON could lead to some pretty beefy healthbars when you factor in Undying Health and Penance.
I struggled quite a bit with this feature, so I appreciate the feedback. However, I do think it's important to look at subclasses in a vacuum. Barbarians have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage while raging, and can use shields while retaining all their features. Monks unarmored defense isn't great, which is why a lot of players dip into fighter for shield and armor proficiency. Additionally, I can't take into account all dip exploits. If a player wants to take a one level dip into a class for additional benefits, then there's really nothing I can do to stop them from doing that.
A level 2 paladin with 14 DEX wearing Githyanki plate and holding a shield has 19 AC. In most cases, you'd probably take the defense fighting style, which would give you 20 AC. At level 2, this subclass would probably have +3 STR or DEX, +3 CHA, and +2 CON, which would give it 18 AC. When you use Penance, your AC drops to 17, three less than a shield holding paladin. One less than a paladin using a two handed weapon.
At Level 4, the Penance Paladin probably takes a +2 to Strength, pushing their AC to 19. When they use penance, their AC drops to 18. This still puts them one AC behind a two weapon fighting paladin, and two AC behind a shield Paladin, assuming nothing else has changed. Additionally, they need to take a +2 to Strength, foregoing Great Weapon Master or a different feat in order to get to 19 AC.
At Level 8, the Penance Paladin takes another +2 to Strength for 20 AC, 19 during penance. At this point in the game, you can find +1 shields and +1 plate, so a shield using paladin wearing +1 Plate and holding a +1 Shield with the defense fighting style would have 23 AC, and a two handed weapon paladin would have 20 AC. Granted, there's clothing in the game that can increase your DEX or STR by 2, so that obviously has an effect as well.
My issue is that unarmored defense that only takes two abilities into account and prevents shield use would make for a pretty bad AC, especially for a Paladin. At level 2, if you're only using STR and CON to calculate AC, you would probably have 16 AC, 15 with Penance active. Giving up 4 AC to a two weapon fighting Paladin for increased hit points and maybe increased damage doesn't feel right to me.
Keeping everything the same and maybe giving a -2 AC during penance may have been the way to go, but I'm not sure that it would make a huge difference.
This can be a murky thing to talk about, because I sometimes wonder: to what extent should I calculate for a really optimising player? A player could start at 17 Charisma, gather a lot of Hill/Cloud Giant Elixirs, and then hag-hair their way to 18 Charisma. If they do jump those hoops, they sit at >24 AC while getting all their feats.
But most players probably aren't going to do that, of course. Some players will stumble around with subpar starting stats and never buff them. Most players probably land somewhere between, start with ~16 STR and ~16 CHA, and maybe stumble upon the hag/Araj or situationally use a few Strength potions against bosses. Balance-wise, what should I take into account, while not making it so a class is only fun if you do jump through odd interactions?
I feel the same way. I try to balance my subclasses for tactician/honor mode, but the people playing on those difficulties are probably optimizing, so should I actually be making them weaker. If I make them weaker, will anyone want to use them? Is this a catch-22? My initial instinct was a -2 AC during penance, so I might make an alternative version with that.
Pretty cool Darkest Dungeon subclass! Just throwing out the idea—Abomination as a druid subclass where they can only transform into a Gnoll or Minotaur, or something akin to that.
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Depending on how this is implemented, this could mean a pretty high AC. Barbarians get 10+DEX+CON. Monks get 10+DEX+WIS. Adding three stats would make your AC very high, especially when you get to choose freely between Strength and Dexterity. That undercuts the trade-off of Penance, while also being something, say, a Sorcerer could dip for a level.
I'd consider removing one of the stats. Which one, I'm of two minds of. If CON is part of the AC calculation, you still encourage the player to pump up their hitpoints. I think this concept works better when you are taking some hits, but just have the health to absorb and roll with them. But Paladins are already torn between a few stats, and encouraging them to pump CON could lead to some pretty beefy healthbars when you factor in Undying Health and Penance.
A level 2 paladin with 14 DEX wearing Githyanki plate and holding a shield has 19 AC. In most cases, you'd probably take the defense fighting style, which would give you 20 AC. At level 2, this subclass would probably have +3 STR or DEX, +3 CHA, and +2 CON, which would give it 18 AC. When you use Penance, your AC drops to 17, three less than a shield holding paladin. One less than a paladin using a two handed weapon.
At Level 4, the Penance Paladin probably takes a +2 to Strength, pushing their AC to 19. When they use penance, their AC drops to 18. This still puts them one AC behind a two weapon fighting paladin, and two AC behind a shield Paladin, assuming nothing else has changed. Additionally, they need to take a +2 to Strength, foregoing Great Weapon Master or a different feat in order to get to 19 AC.
At Level 8, the Penance Paladin takes another +2 to Strength for 20 AC, 19 during penance. At this point in the game, you can find +1 shields and +1 plate, so a shield using paladin wearing +1 Plate and holding a +1 Shield with the defense fighting style would have 23 AC, and a two handed weapon paladin would have 20 AC. Granted, there's clothing in the game that can increase your DEX or STR by 2, so that obviously has an effect as well.
My issue is that unarmored defense that only takes two abilities into account and prevents shield use would make for a pretty bad AC, especially for a Paladin. At level 2, if you're only using STR and CON to calculate AC, you would probably have 16 AC, 15 with Penance active. Giving up 4 AC to a two weapon fighting Paladin for increased hit points and maybe increased damage doesn't feel right to me.
Keeping everything the same and maybe giving a -2 AC during penance may have been the way to go, but I'm not sure that it would make a huge difference.
But most players probably aren't going to do that, of course. Some players will stumble around with subpar starting stats and never buff them. Most players probably land somewhere between, start with ~16 STR and ~16 CHA, and maybe stumble upon the hag/Araj or situationally use a few Strength potions against bosses. Balance-wise, what should I take into account, while not making it so a class is only fun if you do jump through odd interactions?
I like the Penance feature!