Mod is 100% functional - after this is just nice-to-haves, which i'm putting on the backburner to keep working on my Injuries collab with @Goonsack (if you're a fan of realism and consequences, look forward to it! Hopefully out in the next couple weeks - will be very, very worth the wait).
If anyone has feature requests, feedback, etc, still let me know - always happy to sidetrack if there's a enhancement that's in demand.
v0.5.0 brings Stealth Action support, and is now in Beta!
This release basically completely overhauls combat while sneaking - here's the copy-paste from the MCM description:
When performing a non-stealth action while in Combat and Sneaking, you roll a Stealth check against each enemy that can spot you and has Line-Of-Sight.
If you pass these checks, your 'ghost' (which represents where enemies think you are) gets randomly placed within a defined horizontal (not vertical) distance of you; if you fail, your ghost stays with you and enemies look directly at your position, forcing you to make a Hide check if you're within sight. Critically failing means your stealth is removed.
This distance shrinks on each subsequent action, and grows based on your Obscurity Level.
If you're within 9 meters of any given enemy when this check is performed, they'll turn to look at your current position, forcing you to make an additional Hide check. 9m is the Distant Metamagic distance for touch spells, so that's being used as a compromise between realism and game mechanics
There's also considerations for what happens out of combat based on the spell effects. MCM has all relevant info in it, broken down into sections.
Here's some important things to highlight:
Vanilla is jank. Sneak-based combat is very obviously not the primary use-case in the game and yet is handled at a very low level, so this mod has to do a lot of workarounds and jank to make it work. I think the implementation does a good job of taking advantage of this jank to create an immersive and balanced experience, but this is going to depend heavily on the scenario and your playstyles, so please play with the MCM values and provide feedback!
The 'ghost' that gets randomly placed might end up in mid-air if you're on say, a cliff or something. I'm using the game functions to calculate a valid position but it's inherently buggy - however, if you interpret it as not where enemies think you are exactly, but the direction the attack came from, then it works.
The combat log is messy right now - I have ideas on how to clean it up, so i'll probably tackle that next. I made sure the mod logs are clean and useful though - you can look at them at %localappdata%\Larian Studios\Baldur's Gate 3\Script Extender\Sensible_Ambushing
This feature truly is a overhaul to how sneak-based combat plays out - if you've played this game a lot, you're going to have to change your way of thinking (in a good way!). Here's some tips from my playing around (especially if you enjoy playing with a higher level of difficulty):
- Positioning matters a whole lot - breaking line of sight with enemies, thinking about where enemies might move to (especially teleporting ones), and maintaining distance from your non-sneaking party members makes a major difference now.
- Minor Illusion is much more important now - if you attack enemies from outside their sight range then Combat won't automatically trigger, you'll roll stealth checks and the enemy will start heading to your position (this is vanilla game engine behavior - i can't fix this without essentially recreating the engine logic on determining if combat should start, and i really don't wanna set myself up for that barrel of worms). Use minor illusion to bring enemies within sight distance to reliably trigger combat, and have the side benefit of getting them more grouped together!
- Remember that spells like Dash and using items like Poisons are STEALTH flagged, so you can use them more tactically now that you aren't having to recast Hide every round
0.5.1 cleans up the combat log by preventing the gaining/losing of the SNEAKING status from being logged. This might be a little confusing if you rely on it to tell you when you lose sneaking, but the icons above the action bar and next to the portrait are still available, so it shouldn't be too disruptive. If anyone disagrees, please let me know!
I've got a packed schedule for the next week or so, so it might be a bit until i can work on this again - however, next goals are: - Adding in a toggleable passive to opt characters into an ambush, regardless of sneak status - Possibly adding in a custom overlay on characters to give a better visual indicator of obscurity level
Hey, really glad to hear it! Thanks for letting me know - and look forward to some updates soon. Thinking I'll be able to work on this again next weekish
Your mods collectively speak to the true neurosis this game can conjure and are brilliant tools to alleviate some of the fun but maddening aspects of its functionality.
Hi, I really like this mod. But it doesn't seem to work when I try to play Trials of Tav - Reloaded. Can you reproduce this problem? Is it possible to make it compatible?
Heya! Need more info before i go fishing - i can't imagine anything in that mod that would conflict with mine. What specific features don't work? what does your config look like? What does the log.txt say? (found in the localappdata SE folder)
It's normal when not in Roguelike mode. When playing in that Roguelike mode, stealth is back to the original version: when you sneak at the beginning of a fight and are not detected, you will not enter the round together and can move around freely. I will look up this data when I have time.
i have combat mode on. and when i do a sneak attack, i succeed the attack role, but the enemy turns around to look at me. Which is only supposed to happen when you fail. Any Idea why this might be happenening.
I have a question and maybe it has been answered but I am still struggling to understand.
In BG3 when I have a party and I get into a fight while having another character sneaking around, this character who is sneaking can usually move while my other party is taking turns. This mod eliminates that and pulls them into battle correct? I like the idea of having my party paused in turn base while I rearrange and sneak around my other party member into the position I want them in, can I still do that?
Edit: I think with Mod Manager I managed to disable the settings to keep this, I'll just test it when I start the game.
Eliminating the mix of turned based and real time gameplay is largely the point of this mod, though each character has a toggle you can use to be exempt from this.
a) A non-stealth action could even be an attack...or just a non-offensive action? 🤔
b) Would be casting of a spell also considered a non-stealth action?
c) Would be possible to add feat that specific non-stealth action (i.e., casting non-stealthy spells, using a ranged weapon, performing a melee attack, etc...) into a stealth action ...or such feat could be implemented independently from the mechanics changed by the mod? 🤔
d) In Pathfinder there is a rogue talent called False Attacker which, essentially, allows to remain hidden if a Bluff check (equivalent to a Deception check) is succeeded. However, I always felt that was a funny idea to use it to "frame" opponents (because if someone thinks someone else attacked him, he's likely to turn hostile to that person). Wouldn't be possible to add a feat that adds a passive ability, which, when activated (as one is hidden and another creature is within a certain range), after an attack is performed or a spell is casted which could break stealth, would attempt a Deception check...and if succeeded, wouldn't just retain the stealth, but also "frame" a random creature around the target causing it to: - Turn hostile and attack that specific target (if neutral or ally)? - Prioritize that target over others (if it is enemy)? While it is only tangentially related to "hiding", I think that the idea of "framing" people with one's attacks or (possibly, if pickpockets could be affected) with one's crimes would be fun! 🤔
A + B) Any action, including non-offensive (i.e. you can cast bless from stealth)
C) That's kind of included, in that you automatically have stealth reapplied and have enemies roll perception checks against you - this keeps things fair, so you're not basically having Greater Invisibility with no checks in place. You can also use the Subtle Spell Metamagic to make spells stealth-flagged, like minor illusion is.
In MCM you'll also find a rule around requiring a character to have stealth proficiency, which you can enable/disable to your liking. I opted to not go for a feat for this because i think it just makes sense that if you have proficiency in stealth and aren't right next to an enemy, you should automatically know how to not instantly reveal yourself to an enemy (plus there are implementation considerations, and i just really like SE-based implementations)
D) That's an interesting idea - right now, the functionality is more based around controlling where enemies think you are attacking from, but in a vacuum i like the RP concept of the feat. I think my biggest issue with it is the game just isn't set up with that level of granularity - there are basically 3 factions in the game: Your party, your allies, and your enemies. Framing your party members or a nearby ally for combat reasons would have the same effect as framing yourself, and the game just doesn't have mechanisms for enforcing crime actions on NPCs because there aren't any scenarios for it. I'll chew on this and think about possible adaptations - maybe using something like Invoke Duplicity to create a dummy version of yourself to redirect enemies to?
D) Ok...then trying to "fame" an ally would be pointless...but I will throw you this other idea...which I have no idea if might work...but...what about: 1) Picking one of the enemies in a close range (ideally the closest or randomly*) ["flagged" to be the framed enemy] 2) Placing a temporary invisibility VFX on him (after all it's not truly needed for him to be mechanically invisible...it is just for the player to have a "better scene"!). 3) Generating a duplicate of him that is your ally (as I guess the Invoke Duplicity clone would be...)... 4) ...which is Befuddled**, attracts attention like Minor Illusion and "casts" a Will save effect on the victim that inflict Goaded on him*** for 1 turn. 5) ...and, if stuck, would swap place with the ("graphically") invisible enemy, redirect damage on him and cause both him and his attacker to "cast" a Will save**** effect on each other inflicting Goaded on each other for a brief amount of time...like 1d2-1d3 rounds? 6) (Optional) ...and also, if both the "victim" and the "framed individual" get locked into combat, each of them could cast a Will save effect that inflicts Goaded on a random enemy which still has not goaded...again...brief...1d2-1d3 rounds...I think this one should have a lower DC, because it is less likely that an exchange of blows between two enemies could turn in a full-blown brawl...but can you imagine to play this trick on a bunch of enemy with low Intelligence and causing them to start fighting among each other...even if just for a few rounds?! 😂
( ...I get that would be probably complex to script...but wouldn't simulate pretty well a situation in which someone over-reacting as he thinks that the other "went mad and stuck him"...or someone who thinks he's being "unjustly accused and strikes back"? 🤔 )
P.S.: Actually I think would be probably quite fun to watch the "situation", given that would seem as if one was witnessing a brawl he himself has caused among his opponents!! 😂
P.P.S.: Forgive me if the suggested idea ...emmmh...was "too weird"...😐 ...but would be SO AMAZING if was possible to simulate such a situation, although I understand that, if the game itself lacks such granularity, assuming, again, it is even possible, could only be simulated! 🤔
*= Ideally three factors could be taken in account to choose the enemy: - Closeness (obviously, the closest would be accused because he might have accidentally hit him...no matter how likeable or smart he is!) - Charisma (at same distance, the most obnoxious would be accused first!) - Intelligence (at the same distance and likeability, the least intelligent would be accused first!) Pure randomness could be left as residual, but I think the three factors above should be enough to make this less random... **= Granting full control over the duplicate seem a bit too powerful...but if he is befuddled, he'd essentially be an "uncontrolled distraction"! *** = Or Madness and Goaded, if the latter wouldn't allow to attack someone who is not hostile to oneself. **** = Actually I am not too sure if a Will save or an Intelligence save would be better...after all, someone who's dumb and someone who lacks common sense seem to be as much likely to fall into such a "trap".
Definitely an interesting idea, but also pretty complicated, especially relative to the gameplay value 🤔i'll chew on it more, but unfortunately i'll put this at the bottom of my list for now since i have more concrete projects on it - really appreciate the idea though, it's a good inspiration!
Well...no problem osirsofinternet! 😊 Obviously I had read you were busy with other projects... 😊...but it is good to know that there is hope to see something like this eventually implemented! 😊👍
Looking forward to see the next update. I had to uninstall after using it for a good while, the 100 stealth roll noises when fights start were so loud for me and because I use Sit Out 2, any characters that were stealthing before the fight and "sitting out" continuously stealth roll sometimes which as you can imagine is unbearable to listen to lol
But I do miss it. Vanilla stealth fights are so slow and boring.;_; Much love for this mod <3
Heya! Really appreciate the feedback - good to know about sit this one out, didn't realize that would be an issue. I'll look to add at least the toggleable passive this weekend (and maybe an option to disable to the stealth roll noises, if that's possible) to fix that aspect of it
Update uploaded! Couple notes for you: 1. I tested it with Sit This One Out 2, and while it works, i didn't realize that mod basically just makes characters invisible, but keeps them in the area - because of that, i recommend you just don't stealth the characters you're having sit out in general (because enemies will still force you to roll hide checks), but just making sure to disable the new toggle on them will be good enough to stop the constant spam i think 2. I briefly looked into disabling the rolling sounds, but unfortunately it's not per status - it looks like it'd require unloading the sound resources for all roll effects in general, and that's not really a thing i wanna get into - best advice i can offer is just turning down the Sound Effects volume in the menu. Sorry!
Looking forward to trying this! Stealth in BG3 is heckin' weird.
This goes beyond the scope of this mod, but my ideal world has Sneak Attack requiring stealth (not just advantage) but rogues also get an additional Sneak Attack per turn on lvl 5 or 7 or 11 or whatever. It would bring some actual Rogue flavour to their combat and conditionally increase their damage. In my opinion a rogue should do more damage than a fighter per round if they can pull off multiple stealths and attacks (which can be pretty tricky).
Heya! Totally agreed lol - let me know what you think of the implementation!
On the stealth portion, i think the reason it's setup like that is to give melee rogues viability because it's near impossible to stealth while next to an enemy, unless you're heavily obscured, which 95% of the time you're not. You'd basically have to attack, run away to break line-of-sight, stealth, walk back, then repeat.
Sneak attack damage also scales with level, and i can tell you from experience my rogues (both melee and ranged) tend consistently out-damage other martial classes (others tend to do more on crits or in combination with limited resources like spells, but since rogues do the extra damage every successful hit, plus combining mechanics like Gaping Wounds and Poisons, they're absolute cannons against single targets, but _only_ single targets). It's pretty much for that reason that this mod tends to make stealth-based combat overpowered in vanilla combats (especially if you're ranged stealth), since you have more of a chance to not be targeted and your bonus action is freed up to apply oils/poisons/self-buffs.
If you still feel underwhelmed after playing with it, let me know, and we can see what needs cooking
It does not work for characters using invisibility, unfortunately. When combat starts, they don't enter turn-based mode and statuses like greater invis tick.
Yeah, that's currently expected. I'm working on another mod atm, but when I'm done with that (should be a couple weeks) I'll come back and shore this up. If you sneak while invis though you'll get brought in
Collabing on a overhaul of https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/12911 with BaldursGoonsack! Expanded functionally, tons of customization, subsequent versions will include exhaustion and traumas too
Is it possible to buff melee stealth too? Currently melee one is no different than vanilla, still frustrating to use. Also vanilla stealth archer is already pretty OP if you build around it, melee one just so meh
Hrm, how would you buff it? Melee stealth has traditionally been more of a RP choice, with gameplay focusing on the first attack, because if you attack someone when you're literally standing right next to them... they're gonna know where you are. This mod still gives you a slight chance to remain hidden in that situation, but for the most part melee-stealth is much more about the opening than about the consistent follow-up. I can't think of a way to buff that without essentially giving players perma-Greater Invisibility
97 comments
Mod is 100% functional - after this is just nice-to-haves, which i'm putting on the backburner to keep working on my Injuries collab with @Goonsack (if you're a fan of realism and consequences, look forward to it! Hopefully out in the next couple weeks - will be very, very worth the wait).
If anyone has feature requests, feedback, etc, still let me know - always happy to sidetrack if there's a enhancement that's in demand.
Thanks all!
This release basically completely overhauls combat while sneaking - here's the copy-paste from the MCM description:
There's also considerations for what happens out of combat based on the spell effects. MCM has all relevant info in it, broken down into sections.
Here's some important things to highlight:
Vanilla is jank. Sneak-based combat is very obviously not the primary use-case in the game and yet is handled at a very low level, so this mod has to do a lot of workarounds and jank to make it work. I think the implementation does a good job of taking advantage of this jank to create an immersive and balanced experience, but this is going to depend heavily on the scenario and your playstyles, so please play with the MCM values and provide feedback!
The 'ghost' that gets randomly placed might end up in mid-air if you're on say, a cliff or something. I'm using the game functions to calculate a valid position but it's inherently buggy - however, if you interpret it as not where enemies think you are exactly, but the direction the attack came from, then it works.
The combat log is messy right now - I have ideas on how to clean it up, so i'll probably tackle that next. I made sure the mod logs are clean and useful though - you can look at them at
%localappdata%\Larian Studios\Baldur's Gate 3\Script Extender\Sensible_Ambushing
This feature truly is a overhaul to how sneak-based combat plays out - if you've played this game a lot, you're going to have to change your way of thinking (in a good way!). Here's some tips from my playing around (especially if you enjoy playing with a higher level of difficulty):
- Positioning matters a whole lot - breaking line of sight with enemies, thinking about where enemies might move to (especially teleporting ones), and maintaining distance from your non-sneaking party members makes a major difference now.
- Minor Illusion is much more important now - if you attack enemies from outside their sight range then Combat won't automatically trigger, you'll roll stealth checks and the enemy will start heading to your position (this is vanilla game engine behavior - i can't fix this without essentially recreating the engine logic on determining if combat should start, and i really don't wanna set myself up for that barrel of worms). Use minor illusion to bring enemies within sight distance to reliably trigger combat, and have the side benefit of getting them more grouped together!
- Remember that spells like Dash and using items like Poisons are STEALTH flagged, so you can use them more tactically now that you aren't having to recast Hide every round
I've got a packed schedule for the next week or so, so it might be a bit until i can work on this again - however, next goals are:
- Adding in a toggleable passive to opt characters into an ambush, regardless of sneak status
- Possibly adding in a custom overlay on characters to give a better visual indicator of obscurity level
I am using this mod as of now and can't be happier
Can you reproduce this problem? Is it possible to make it compatible?
Need more info before i go fishing - i can't imagine anything in that mod that would conflict with mine. What specific features don't work? what does your config look like? What does the log.txt say? (found in the localappdata SE folder)
I will look up this data when I have time.
Was this while combat was already going on, or before combat started?
In BG3 when I have a party and I get into a fight while having another character sneaking around, this character who is sneaking can usually move while my other party is taking turns. This mod eliminates that and pulls them into battle correct? I like the idea of having my party paused in turn base while I rearrange and sneak around my other party member into the position I want them in, can I still do that?
Edit: I think with Mod Manager I managed to disable the settings to keep this, I'll just test it when I start the game.
a) A non-stealth action could even be an attack...or just a non-offensive action? 🤔
b) Would be casting of a spell also considered a non-stealth action?
c) Would be possible to add feat that specific non-stealth action (i.e., casting non-stealthy spells, using a ranged weapon, performing a melee attack, etc...) into a stealth action ...or such feat could be implemented independently from the mechanics changed by the mod? 🤔
d) In Pathfinder there is a rogue talent called False Attacker which, essentially, allows to remain hidden if a Bluff check (equivalent to a Deception check) is succeeded. However, I always felt that was a funny idea to use it to "frame" opponents (because if someone thinks someone else attacked him, he's likely to turn hostile to that person). Wouldn't be possible to add a feat that adds a passive ability, which, when activated (as one is hidden and another creature is within a certain range), after an attack is performed or a spell is casted which could break stealth, would attempt a Deception check...and if succeeded, wouldn't just retain the stealth, but also "frame" a random creature around the target causing it to:
- Turn hostile and attack that specific target (if neutral or ally)?
- Prioritize that target over others (if it is enemy)?
While it is only tangentially related to "hiding", I think that the idea of "framing" people with one's attacks or (possibly, if pickpockets could be affected) with one's crimes would be fun! 🤔
A + B) Any action, including non-offensive (i.e. you can cast bless from stealth)
C) That's kind of included, in that you automatically have stealth reapplied and have enemies roll perception checks against you - this keeps things fair, so you're not basically having Greater Invisibility with no checks in place. You can also use the Subtle Spell Metamagic to make spells stealth-flagged, like minor illusion is.
In MCM you'll also find a rule around requiring a character to have stealth proficiency, which you can enable/disable to your liking. I opted to not go for a feat for this because i think it just makes sense that if you have proficiency in stealth and aren't right next to an enemy, you should automatically know how to not instantly reveal yourself to an enemy (plus there are implementation considerations, and i just really like SE-based implementations)
D) That's an interesting idea - right now, the functionality is more based around controlling where enemies think you are attacking from, but in a vacuum i like the RP concept of the feat. I think my biggest issue with it is the game just isn't set up with that level of granularity - there are basically 3 factions in the game: Your party, your allies, and your enemies. Framing your party members or a nearby ally for combat reasons would have the same effect as framing yourself, and the game just doesn't have mechanisms for enforcing crime actions on NPCs because there aren't any scenarios for it. I'll chew on this and think about possible adaptations - maybe using something like Invoke Duplicity to create a dummy version of yourself to redirect enemies to?
D) Ok...then trying to "fame" an ally would be pointless...but I will throw you this other idea...which I have no idea if might work...but...what about:
1) Picking one of the enemies in a close range (ideally the closest or randomly*) ["flagged" to be the framed enemy]
2) Placing a temporary invisibility VFX on him (after all it's not truly needed for him to be mechanically invisible...it is just for the player to have a "better scene"!).
3) Generating a duplicate of him that is your ally (as I guess the Invoke Duplicity clone would be...)...
4) ...which is Befuddled**, attracts attention like Minor Illusion and "casts" a Will save effect on the victim that inflict Goaded on him*** for 1 turn.
5) ...and, if stuck, would swap place with the ("graphically") invisible enemy, redirect damage on him and cause both him and his attacker to "cast" a Will save**** effect on each other inflicting Goaded on each other for a brief amount of time...like 1d2-1d3 rounds?
6) (Optional) ...and also, if both the "victim" and the "framed individual" get locked into combat, each of them could cast a Will save effect that inflicts Goaded on a random enemy which still has not goaded...again...brief...1d2-1d3 rounds...I think this one should have a lower DC, because it is less likely that an exchange of blows between two enemies could turn in a full-blown brawl...but can you imagine to play this trick on a bunch of enemy with low Intelligence and causing them to start fighting among each other...even if just for a few rounds?! 😂
( ...I get that would be probably complex to script...but wouldn't simulate pretty well a situation in which someone over-reacting as he thinks that the other "went mad and stuck him"...or someone who thinks he's being "unjustly accused and strikes back"? 🤔 )
P.S.: Actually I think would be probably quite fun to watch the "situation", given that would seem as if one was witnessing a brawl he himself has caused among his opponents!! 😂
P.P.S.: Forgive me if the suggested idea ...emmmh...was "too weird"...😐 ...but would be SO AMAZING if was possible to simulate such a situation, although I understand that, if the game itself lacks such granularity, assuming, again, it is even possible, could only be simulated! 🤔
*= Ideally three factors could be taken in account to choose the enemy:
- Closeness (obviously, the closest would be accused because he might have accidentally hit him...no matter how likeable or smart he is!)
- Charisma (at same distance, the most obnoxious would be accused first!)
- Intelligence (at the same distance and likeability, the least intelligent would be accused first!)
Pure randomness could be left as residual, but I think the three factors above should be enough to make this less random...
**= Granting full control over the duplicate seem a bit too powerful...but if he is befuddled, he'd essentially be an "uncontrolled distraction"!
*** = Or Madness and Goaded, if the latter wouldn't allow to attack someone who is not hostile to oneself.
**** = Actually I am not too sure if a Will save or an Intelligence save would be better...after all, someone who's dumb and someone who lacks common sense seem to be as much likely to fall into such a "trap".
Obviously I had read you were busy with other projects... 😊...but it is good to know that there is hope to see something like this eventually implemented! 😊👍
But I do miss it. Vanilla stealth fights are so slow and boring.;_;
Much love for this mod <3
1. I tested it with Sit This One Out 2, and while it works, i didn't realize that mod basically just makes characters invisible, but keeps them in the area - because of that, i recommend you just don't stealth the characters you're having sit out in general (because enemies will still force you to roll hide checks), but just making sure to disable the new toggle on them will be good enough to stop the constant spam i think
2. I briefly looked into disabling the rolling sounds, but unfortunately it's not per status - it looks like it'd require unloading the sound resources for all roll effects in general, and that's not really a thing i wanna get into - best advice i can offer is just turning down the Sound Effects volume in the menu. Sorry!
This goes beyond the scope of this mod, but my ideal world has Sneak Attack requiring stealth (not just advantage) but rogues also get an additional Sneak Attack per turn on lvl 5 or 7 or 11 or whatever. It would bring some actual Rogue flavour to their combat and conditionally increase their damage. In my opinion a rogue should do more damage than a fighter per round if they can pull off multiple stealths and attacks (which can be pretty tricky).
On the stealth portion, i think the reason it's setup like that is to give melee rogues viability because it's near impossible to stealth while next to an enemy, unless you're heavily obscured, which 95% of the time you're not. You'd basically have to attack, run away to break line-of-sight, stealth, walk back, then repeat.
Sneak attack damage also scales with level, and i can tell you from experience my rogues (both melee and ranged) tend consistently out-damage other martial classes (others tend to do more on crits or in combination with limited resources like spells, but since rogues do the extra damage every successful hit, plus combining mechanics like Gaping Wounds and Poisons, they're absolute cannons against single targets, but _only_ single targets). It's pretty much for that reason that this mod tends to make stealth-based combat overpowered in vanilla combats (especially if you're ranged stealth), since you have more of a chance to not be targeted and your bonus action is freed up to apply oils/poisons/self-buffs.
If you still feel underwhelmed after playing with it, let me know, and we can see what needs cooking
What are you cooking rn?