I've never used it, but presumably. There's no explicit compatibility added for any mod, even for my own spells, because it should handle any modded spells as long as those are added to the base game's Fiend spell list.
Dang! Was hoping that this would fix the spell list for Warlocks while trying to utilize the Dnd 2024 All in One mod and 5E spells together. 😭
Per the 2024 all in one author they aren't supposed to work together, but surprisingly it does for every class except Warlock lol. Like I get the 5E spells stuff that PHB, but any spell thats non phb for the warlocks spell list like cause fear doesn't show up, while it does for other classes.
So if anyone IS able to get it to work lmk please!
Weird. This is pretty mod agnostic unless a mod is going in and changing core Larian UUIDs and/or structure/heirarchies. That was the whole point when I made it, so I didn't have to bother updating Valkrana's Spellbook every time a new warlock subclass released lol. That said, I haven't looked at any 2024 stuff.
Yeah mod author specifically states like it won't work with anything that effects spell lists or progression, to my delight that was false in 5E spells case!... Well save for Warlock lol.
It's definitely just that mod too because I deactivate it and boom Cause Fear (XGE) is there, but when I put it back on it vanishes for Warlock lol.
I'm confused, this mod says near the bottom of the load order but I thought spell list additions and changes were supposed to go near mods like UnlockLevelCurve and Expansion? So generally quite early?
This isn't your usual spell list addition mod. It gathers and distributes spells, so it's better for it to load after all subclasses and spell mods.
Always (almost always) use what is said on an individual mod page. These conventional wisdoms for mod lists aren't bad in general, but they're very arbitrary. There's no real reason for the spell list additions to go quite early. It might be worse depending on the nature of the mod. If a spell list addition isn't using CF or its own scripts for clean insertion, it may be overwriting or being overwritten by a spell list in another mod, which is a common concern and justification for them to load later in the load order, provided you want the list changes to actually come into effect.
Hm okay thanks. I guess I'll just pay attention to what may override what rather than how early things are loaded then. Unfortunately there are a lot of cases where load order isn't really mentioned either in the description, an article or in the comments. I was under the impression that certain mods wouldn't load at all unless put early or is that just script extender mods (at the same time people say it doesn't matter where they go because they won't be overwritten xD)
It's a case by case basis, really. Even SE mods can have non-SE components. You're right regarding things being unmentioned in the description, and yeah, general load orders are good to have as a fallback in those regards (if not necessarily what you actually want for a particular mod to work properly lol). In terms of certain mods not loading at all unless they're early, that can be true under certain circumstances, but for most mods, load order won't be something that prevents them from loading, though it may prevent them from working properly if they aren't loading before or after specific dependencies.
I don't suppose you know some specific examples off the top of your head? Of mods that NEED to be early I mean. I know better loot is kinda like that but more to do with making the right changes rather than not loading at all.
The biggest ones I can think of since I've pruned my list down to just what I use for testing are CommunityLibrary, MCM, and 5eSpells. Mods that have a lot of other mods that depend on them are your surest bet for mods that should load early unless the author says otherwise.
On another note, as an example: Since I use SE, I put Valkrana's Spellbook near the top of my list, because it SE support for inserting its spells into spell lists, and there are other mods that depend on it. However, this gets more tricky without SE. Because without SE, VS (like other spell mods, and many don't use SE for spell list compatibility) would need to load after classes and subclasses that have spell lists into which the mod inserts stuff.
Yeah I actually just realised that myself today and had some class specific mods in the wrong places (oops). Obviously makes sense. Does this also apply to non-class specific spells too then? Kinda baffling why guides say to load spell mods early then unless it's just the class-specific spells that don't?
Could you by any chance take a very quick look at these mods in my load order and advise as to where they should be going? Highmost spell foci is just beneath these and has been working properly but they're all loaded before my classes. I assume class spells should be moved but only really if I have other mods that change vanilla classes that I actually want it to overwrite?
That list mainly looks like mods that adjust pre-existing spells. It probably doesn't really matter where most of them go at all, except in relation to other mods that do the same thing they're doing. That said, I can't speak to individual mods' contents or load order considerations. But something like the Spells Extra Lists is going to conflict with any other mod that edits spell lists directly. I'd put that at or near the bottom, or at least after all other similar mods.
Okay yeah that makes sense seeing as other mods depend on it and ideally I don't want to undo any of its changes, just touch on things that it misses! I have a tendency to put big mods first and then smaller mods after but I forget about dependencies and making sure they're unchanged.
I think this may be breaking the Hexblade spell list. Most smite spells weren't there when I had this in load order and when I removed it they seemed to be there at every relevant level (but I lost a lot of other spells obviously :( Gonna mess around with load order and see if I can get it to work. Probably won't bother to check other Warlock subclasses.
Thanks for your quick reply. And I guess now I don't need Spell List Combiner anymore? I'm really puzzled about the use of that mod since now I have already used your mod.
.... Does this include/mean that spells level 6+ are now included in Mystic Arcanum? Or can I now choose Chain Lightning on level-up (i.e. "breaking the level 5 spell cap")? Or..... dare I ask, both?
Nah. It doesn't do anything out of the ordinary. Just adds spells from mods to spell lists for modded warlock subclasses if they aren't already there. Because with the way Larian handles warlock spell lists, they don't just inherit anything added to vanilla warlock (unlike every other class). If the 5e Spells mod adds Tasha's Caustic Brew to vanilla warlocks, and the Brainrot Patron subclass mod for warlock doesn't explicitly add the Tasha's Caustic Brew spell to its spell list, it won't get that spell. Without this mod, anyway.
I have a loooooooong list, lotsa stuff competing for dead last... which, sadly, can make "near" a very different thing than "at" the bottom.
So, wondering: B4 or After, e.g., - Loktide's Warlock Multiclass Bug Fix and Workaround (which may or may not be working anymore)? - Bluesatin's Multiclass Casting Ability Fix (ditto)? - xarara's various 5e/2e/Metamagic/Homebrew compat patches? - Spell List Combiner (the updated/non-broken one)? - Compatibility Framework (and various CF legacy patches)? - AV Item Shipment Framework?
Yeah. If the author who made, say, the Acky Way Patron didn't add support for PF2e spells, this will only add them to the list of spells you can choose from. Otherwise, they wouldn't be there at all.
34 comments
Per the 2024 all in one author they aren't supposed to work together, but surprisingly it does for every class except Warlock lol. Like I get the 5E spells stuff that PHB, but any spell thats non phb for the warlocks spell list like cause fear doesn't show up, while it does for other classes.
So if anyone IS able to get it to work lmk please!
It's definitely just that mod too because I deactivate it and boom Cause Fear (XGE) is there, but when I put it back on it vanishes for Warlock lol.
Always (almost always) use what is said on an individual mod page. These conventional wisdoms for mod lists aren't bad in general, but they're very arbitrary. There's no real reason for the spell list additions to go quite early. It might be worse depending on the nature of the mod. If a spell list addition isn't using CF or its own scripts for clean insertion, it may be overwriting or being overwritten by a spell list in another mod, which is a common concern and justification for them to load later in the load order, provided you want the list changes to actually come into effect.
On another note, as an example: Since I use SE, I put Valkrana's Spellbook near the top of my list, because it SE support for inserting its spells into spell lists, and there are other mods that depend on it. However, this gets more tricky without SE. Because without SE, VS (like other spell mods, and many don't use SE for spell list compatibility) would need to load after classes and subclasses that have spell lists into which the mod inserts stuff.
Could you by any chance take a very quick look at these mods in my load order and advise as to where they should be going? Highmost spell foci is just beneath these and has been working properly but they're all loaded before my classes. I assume class spells should be moved but only really if I have other mods that change vanilla classes that I actually want it to overwrite?
Cheers for your help there :)
EDIT: It was OneDND Patron Spells
And do I still need Spell List Combiner? I just think they do the same thing...
I have a loooooooong list, lotsa stuff competing for dead last... which, sadly, can make "near" a very different thing than "at" the bottom.
So, wondering:
B4 or After, e.g.,
- Loktide's Warlock Multiclass Bug Fix and Workaround (which may or may not be working anymore)?
- Bluesatin's Multiclass Casting Ability Fix (ditto)?
- xarara's various 5e/2e/Metamagic/Homebrew compat patches?
- Spell List Combiner (the updated/non-broken one)?
- Compatibility Framework (and various CF legacy patches)?
- AV Item Shipment Framework?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
(and, wow, you're fast!)