Man, lots of good ideas on the front page (of the gameplay mods category, the only category I ever care about =P) today.
In my own personal copy, I'm going to hack the script to split the damage between all three attributes, since I think that fits in with the concept of the Thu'um better -- consuming some of your body, mind, and soul to change the world with the very power of your essence. Should be easy enough for you to implement on your own end if you like the idea. =)
[edit]One other refinement I'm considering is to unblock the shout duration only if you can actually afford the Health/Stamina/Magicka cost -- otherwise the duration will be prorated down based on how much of the cost you could actually afford. For instance, with the Magicka or Stamina versions, you can shout forever even if you have no Stamina or Magicka, which is a little imbalanced and a little unfair to the NPCs who don't get the same. With this proposition, you can wind up "hoarsing" yourself into being unable to shout for a vanilla amount of time.
The health version doesn't have that problem (it just kills you if you overshout ), but I guess it IS a problem in the other versions...
Uploaded version 2, where it only reduces shout CD if you have some Health/Magicka/Stamina left (it accepts them even if you get them later, by regeneration).
There also is a mixed version, where the cost is taken from all 3 attributes (I still wonder why would people open a page named "Shouting costs health" expecting it to cost anything else, though... oO )
I've also merged all the archives and given them an install script.
Wouldn't it be more likely to use stamina rather than health? On one hand, the shouts are magic and you're projecting your own voice through a primitive form of evocational incantation, aka you're expelling magic from your being through the sound of your words, you aren't literally exhaling lethal amounts of air. It's the reverberation of your voice activated by a set of magic words after it leaves your body. Shouting three dragon words to expel fire would be different than actually exhaling flammable fuel wordlessly. In that sense, you're just shouting normally while the magic reacts off the sound leaving you, not the actual gases expelling from your lungs, thus it doesn't physically harm your body. It's the sound, not the air. So there's no damage to the dovahkiin.
Now I'm not saying this is a bad mod, the concept is good and I do prefer the idea that shouting should rely on a proper resource bar than a guy oddly not willing to say some dragon words in rapid succession due to some arbitrary cooldown rate, but shouting normally for too long can leave one fatigued. And it plays upon the fact that if you sprint too much or keep using heavy assaults, you run out of stamina, and you're obviously not going to be able to shout while catching your breath.
I'm gonna try this... but not sure if it's a good idea for shouts like "Call Dragon" wich have 300 Seconds cooldown and i use it a lot... xDD
Edit: Ok, i tried the mod, and all is a great. I also found a mod that alters the Odahving shout to 0 seconds (Call Dragon), and ingame with this mod it takes about 8Hp, so it's cool.
THO, Storm Call with the 3 words is - 480 Seconds - i can only use the first word... Call of valor is also kind of hard for people building squishy builds tho. But overall the mod is brilliant, yet so simple.
It just needs something like Half the hp for theese heavy cooldown shouts. But it would also require more scripting (I don't mind).
Mmm... it could be applied as flat thresholds (e.g. > 150 is reduced by 1/4, > 300 is halved, > 450 is capped) or as a formula with diminishing returns (e.g. (square root of cooldown)*7). Maybe as an optional file? What do you think?
Personally I find the diminishing returns more interesting... that formula would net: 10s -> 22hp 50s -> 49hp 100s -> 70hp 200s -> 99hp 300s -> 121hp 480s -> 153hp
EDIT: I've uploaded an alternative archive with this formula.
Ah, cool. I was just popping over to comment that the main file sounded great, but I didn't quite understand the diminishing returns version. Like, it sounded reversed to me, but with that formula breakdown, I actually grabbed that version instead! Downloaded & will endorse when I can~
My next playthrough is going to go heavy on blood magic that's already going to do horrible things to my health, so it'll be interesting to see how the two play together
Hmm I guess there's bound to be balance issues depending on the myriad of different settings people personalise their game. 153 HP is kinda ticklish to my character, but on the other hand, I also agree that the straight formula gets imba really quick with the high cooldown of some endgame shouts. (Call of Valo[u]r is a good example as all the three heroes are weak anyway.)
I guess this should be paired with the use of one of those mods that tweak shout cooldowns to make them more reflexive of their (dis)advantages. In any case, the idea of using health instead is sure a fresh take. Endorsing as soon as I can
Legendary, man. Fantastic idea. It's one of those small things that really makes a large difference to the way you play the game, you know? Thank you for the upload. ^-^
Somehow I doubt that people would open a page called "Shouting costs health" looking for it to cost stamina... Anyway, if that's just lazyness I guess I could compile and upload a stamina version just for you; which mode do you prefer, flat costs or diminishing returns?
note: you might be curious why, if set default stamina regeneration to a slower and realistic speed, you will feel actually stamina cost fits the shout better.
38 comments
In my own personal copy, I'm going to hack the script to split the damage between all three attributes, since I think that fits in with the concept of the Thu'um better -- consuming some of your body, mind, and soul to change the world with the very power of your essence. Should be easy enough for you to implement on your own end if you like the idea. =)
[edit]One other refinement I'm considering is to unblock the shout duration only if you can actually afford the Health/Stamina/Magicka cost -- otherwise the duration will be prorated down based on how much of the cost you could actually afford. For instance, with the Magicka or Stamina versions, you can shout forever even if you have no Stamina or Magicka, which is a little imbalanced and a little unfair to the NPCs who don't get the same. With this proposition, you can wind up "hoarsing" yourself into being unable to shout for a vanilla amount of time.
Uploaded version 2, where it only reduces shout CD if you have some Health/Magicka/Stamina left (it accepts them even if you get them later, by regeneration).
There also is a mixed version, where the cost is taken from all 3 attributes (I still wonder why would people open a page named "Shouting costs health" expecting it to cost anything else, though... oO )
I've also merged all the archives and given them an install script.
On one hand, the shouts are magic and you're projecting your own voice through a primitive form of evocational incantation, aka you're expelling magic from your being through the sound of your words, you aren't literally exhaling lethal amounts of air. It's the reverberation of your voice activated by a set of magic words after it leaves your body. Shouting three dragon words to expel fire would be different than actually exhaling flammable fuel wordlessly.
In that sense, you're just shouting normally while the magic reacts off the sound leaving you, not the actual gases expelling from your lungs, thus it doesn't physically harm your body. It's the sound, not the air. So there's no damage to the dovahkiin.
Now I'm not saying this is a bad mod, the concept is good and I do prefer the idea that shouting should rely on a proper resource bar than a guy oddly not willing to say some dragon words in rapid succession due to some arbitrary cooldown rate, but shouting normally for too long can leave one fatigued. And it plays upon the fact that if you sprint too much or keep using heavy assaults, you run out of stamina, and you're obviously not going to be able to shout while catching your breath.
*Takes a Cigerette*
Thanks man!
Edit: Ok, i tried the mod, and all is a great.
I also found a mod that alters the Odahving shout to 0 seconds (Call Dragon), and ingame with this mod it takes about 8Hp, so it's cool.
THO, Storm Call with the 3 words is - 480 Seconds - i can only use the first word...
Call of valor is also kind of hard for people building squishy builds tho.
But overall the mod is brilliant, yet so simple.
It just needs something like Half the hp for theese heavy cooldown shouts. But it would also require more scripting (I don't mind).
Maybe as an optional file?
What do you think?
Personally I find the diminishing returns more interesting... that formula would net:
10s -> 22hp
50s -> 49hp
100s -> 70hp
200s -> 99hp
300s -> 121hp
480s -> 153hp
EDIT: I've uploaded an alternative archive with this formula.
Like, it sounded reversed to me, but with that formula breakdown, I actually grabbed that version instead!
Downloaded & will endorse when I can~
My next playthrough is going to go heavy on blood magic that's already going to do horrible things to my health, so it'll be interesting to see how the two play together
I guess this should be paired with the use of one of those mods that tweak shout cooldowns to make them more reflexive of their (dis)advantages. In any case, the idea of using health instead is sure a fresh take. Endorsing as soon as I can
Just perfect
Totally endorsed and deserved.
It's one of those small things that really makes a large difference to the way you play the game, you know?
Thank you for the upload. ^-^
stamina version, thx
Anyway, if that's just lazyness I guess I could compile and upload a stamina version just for you; which mode do you prefer, flat costs or diminishing returns?
note: you might be curious why, if set default stamina regeneration to a slower and realistic speed, you will feel actually stamina cost fits the shout better.
http://www.vibe.com/2013/08/10-artists-serious-damage-vocal-cords/