Nock to Tip has compatibility patches for various other bow mods, particularly the awesome "Unique Bows" mod. Is there a way to make this work for those?
You mentioned in your sticky that you have a personal version that replaces the [improved] and [legendary] tag with "80Ib" and "120Ib" will upload if people would prefer that version. Does that mean if you restring and temper you get a combination of both tags (legendary+120lb)? If so, please do upload! And I assume that this works with the newer version of Nock to Tip?
I do. I would have guessed that it was simple text edits, CNAM - Created Object, but they don't seem to change when trying to edit the texts, so I must be missing something. Ren hasn't posted here since April 3rd, so he must have gotten too busy with life and hasn't been able to update the tags for the mod.
Yes, you just have to edit the text, but you can't to that on the created object field, which is found under the craftable objects (or whatever it's called) session. You have to go to the Weapons section and look for the actual weapons you are trying to edit. Then go to the FULL - name field and edit it.
I see, thanks for the tip. So the edits are actually done under the Weapon sections in the actual Nock2Tip plugins and not the plugin for this patch, is that correct? If that's the case, then I don't think Ren could have posted the edited versions without the permission of Foster.
sorry I was able to replace to wording with the numbers, but i removed noch to tip about two weeks after having the patch, I will see if i can dig up the old files so i can change the wording again.
I have been using this with NTP and no troubles at all. I just was looking through the patches I had for NTP and noticed the scoped bows patch. So I tried it and sure enough I can use the scoped bows with NTP and improved them through the usual NTP restringing process but alas no love at the grindstone. I was wondering if any others were interested in being able to improve the scoped bows with NTP restring. It'd be great if this mod was able to add support for the scoped bows that are already improved by nock to tip. Just a thought.
Thanks for this, because I was on the fence about Nock to Tip because I was worried the bows would be less powerful being unable to temper them while wearing Fortify Smithing gear and using Fortify Smithing potions. I would like to request the version with the 80lb and 120lb tags though, as I think it would be less confusing and make more sense than a bow being labeled as Legendary twice.
Any news on the version with updated (80lb 120lb) tags? This mod addresses my only gripe with N2T and I'm happy it exists, though I would like to wait for the other version before I install it.
Update: Has been replaced with a new version without the Master Edition appendix to the name. Going to test my mod and see if just changing the required file will work without needing drastic alterations.
I was referred here by Avastgard, since the original mod removed the smithing part...and I wasn't pleased with this, my bows lost about 50% in damage. Thank you very much for this patch, and yes, this will help me decide to keep the mod.
Still, this is my opinion, with this patch, I encountered the opposite effect, the bows are now a bit overpowered; that was to be expected and I solved the issue easily, by making three other armor and jewelry without Archery enchantment (I augmented my health instead, since I play with Evolved Combat mod and things are getting tougher, finally more challenging).
Nock 2 Tip allows the player to do what an archer or bowyer would do and replace the drawstring weight of a bow.
Limbs on bows are not simply 'replaced' as you say, considering most bows are a single piece of wood. Even if they were, a blacksmith wouldn't be the person to do it. And certainly not at a grindstone. You'd visit a bowyer or maybe a fletcher.
What you've created is simply a method of rendering Nock 2 Tip pointless.
Saying that this patch renders NTT pointless is ridiculous, since NTT does a LOT more than simply remove bow upgrading from the grindstone.
Changing the string of a real bow does absolutely nothing regarding draw weight. Tougher strings are required for heavier bows, but making a modern bow heavier would require changing or reinforcing the limbs, like the author said on the description. I am no expert in traditional archery so I don't know if it's possible to make a one piece bow heavier, but this is something I am willing to overlook in favor of more enjoyable gameplay.
I don't know what was the intention of the author of this patch, but it is most welcome by me, who use Loot and Degradation and need to be able to temper bows to use them for long enough before they break. I'd rather not do it on the grindstone, but on the re-stringing table instead, but I can't complain about that. It's a solution and it works.
not really, it still allows Nock to Tips upgrade method to be used if the player chooses too, this simple adds the ability to use smithing along side that if that is how you wish to play. The grindstone is simply bethesda's way of making it visually obvious what station upgrades weapons and what station upgrades armour etc, its not meant to be that factually accurate. For the record, the string does not adjust draw weight on a bow, feel free to look that up
Why thank you Avastgard, glad you like it. Like all mods, no one makes anyone use it and for people like me who was an amateur bow woman (got to have hobbies right ) and the fact i have modded my game to have mobs with 100k + hp's smithing keeps it a little more enjoyable for me.
The point of this mod however originally was for me to enjoy Nock to Tip a little more, but after seeing the posts on the original forum I decided to share it, to give people more choice and to hopefully end the discussion as I am sure it is rather annoying for the original author.
Well yes and no, You should be able to grind up any bow as grinding does not change the weapons base id, and you re string the bow to a different version but you would loose the grinded bonus and have to re grind it. This is because the re-stringing bench works by removing the bow you have and replacing it with a new bow to the version you selected.
I thought about addressing this problem by transforming the re-stringing table in a Smithing Weapon type bench, so you would temper bows there just as you temper them on a grindstone. Smithing would still be the governing skill, but you could impose minimum levels in Archery as condition to temper at a certain level (not sure if this is possible). Each tier of tempering would require a stronger string (I made 6 versions of them ranging from 60lbs to 150lbs. The only problem that prevents me from doing that right now is that i don't know how to make each temper recipe require different ingredients according to the tier. Somebody pointed me to this http://www.creationkit.com/ConstructibleObject_Script, but it would involve scripting - something I have no idea how to do.
I think you can simply put a condition in the recipe where you have the arcane enchanter check bit.
Tested restringing grinded and enchanted bows, it works but you lose enchantment and grind values, its just how the re-stringing bench was made and i dont want to actually adjust any files in the knock to tip mod itself.
So i see this does work, at first glance in TES5Edit I wasn't sure if it was going to. One of my characters has Archery at 80 and Smithing at 35, adding a 80lbs string to a long bow granted +10 to damage and first tier improvement on the grindstone granted +2, so it seems it works well.
@ Avastgarde - You mean like you would require more ingredients at a lower level? Or like require new or different ingredients per tier? I think you can use Conditions to check for an item when upgrading, and a simple remove item script to remove it, very similar to how the ingredients work in general but using Condition data. Like how some portable crafting works in a way, where you can force a check for an item, but you'd add the removal script. Haven't checked if that works for Skyrim but I played a lot of New Vegas and it works there. Would be worth looking into. So you'd basically add a condition to check the tier, and corresponding conditions for each. There might be an easier way for Skyrim, I just haven't looked that far into it.
And just to answer the question about how we could add weight to a one piece bow, you could technically put like a "brace" of extra wood or metal on the piece, which would technically be a smithing/crafting skill . Would be cool if there was new models to actually make that a reality, then the recipes for the higher poundage strings could swap out the model for a heavier looking one .
The strings as ingredients of the tempering recipe are part of a patch I am trying to make myself. I have a different approach than the one you used. Everything is explained here: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/60219/? (click on the "Forums" tab).
EDIT: Basically, I turned the re-stringing table into a tempering station. I wanted each level of tempering to require a different string (I made four additional levels of strings, so each one of the six will correspond to a tempering tier). I am currently having problems to make the correct recipe display on the grinding menu, as explained on the forum tab of NTT I linked above.
ahhh i see, simpler approach would be simply to make a "fine" "Flawless" "Exquisit" "legendery" version of each bow by duplicating the item in ck, then make a recipe that uses the stringing bench that will give you the next bow up if you have the previous bow and the necessary string in your inventory. Then make a grind wheel recipe for the legendary version only for the grind wheel to allow tat to be grinded further after you have the final legendary version.
However to save having legedary (Legendary) after the name maybe call them "-stage 2-", "-stage 3-" "stage 4" and "stage 5" or like "S1,S2 ~ S5 and only the S5 can be grinded further at the grind wheel. Only way i can think of doing it without making a new handler script using something like:
If player.getitemcount <String1> >= 1 and player.getitemcount <bowname> >=1 Then set Temperrecipieshown to <temperrecipename>
not sure, its been over 20 years since I did any scripting and I don't like papyrus enough to even try to update myself lol
oh also, retexture a dwemer strut and re add it calling it a "Bow 80Ib Limb pack" and a "bow 100Ib Limb pack" also look at real bows to get an idea of Ib ratings, Its normally around 45 to 120 instead of 80 - 200, God forbid the arm of the person that can effectively use a 200Ib Draw weight bow lol
The duplication of recipes would not work for the purposes of Loot and Degradation compatibility, because the weapons really need to be tempered the vanilla way. And I think there would be no point in changing the strings if the bow itself was not reinforced. That's why I opted to merge all steps in one: you use the re-stringing table to reinforce limbs (tempering, which requires the smithing skill) while at the same time you need to have a certain level at archery, otherwise the recipe will not show up, and the right string for that tempering level. The way I am trying to do it seems promising. I think I can get it to work if I make the right condition prerequisites. I just haven't had time to test it more thoroughly. I'll update the NTT forum when I do.
Regarding draw weight, most olympic recurve archers range from 40-45lbs (women) and 45-50lbs (men). Every now and then you see somebody pulling more than 50lbs, but it's rare. According to FITA rules, compound bows cannot surpass 60lbs, so you have an idea. Anything above that is just pointless because it will not improve performance (if all, it will reduce it, given how much strength you need to keep the form while aiming). Medieval archers are said to have pulled 80-120lbs from what I've read, but the way in which they used bows was very different from modern techniques - much shorter anchoring and aiming time.
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I do have a personal version that replaces the [improved] and [legendary] tag with "80Ib" and "120Ib" will upload if people would prefer that version.
Happy hunting
Ren
File link: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65317/?
Still, this is my opinion, with this patch, I encountered the opposite effect, the bows are now a bit overpowered; that was to be expected and I solved the issue easily, by making three other armor and jewelry without Archery enchantment (I augmented my health instead, since I play with Evolved Combat mod and things are getting tougher, finally more challenging).
Thanks again, cheers!
Limbs on bows are not simply 'replaced' as you say, considering most bows are a single piece of wood. Even if they were, a blacksmith wouldn't be the person to do it. And certainly not at a grindstone. You'd visit a bowyer or maybe a fletcher.
What you've created is simply a method of rendering Nock 2 Tip pointless.
Changing the string of a real bow does absolutely nothing regarding draw weight. Tougher strings are required for heavier bows, but making a modern bow heavier would require changing or reinforcing the limbs, like the author said on the description. I am no expert in traditional archery so I don't know if it's possible to make a one piece bow heavier, but this is something I am willing to overlook in favor of more enjoyable gameplay.
I don't know what was the intention of the author of this patch, but it is most welcome by me, who use Loot and Degradation and need to be able to temper bows to use them for long enough before they break. I'd rather not do it on the grindstone, but on the re-stringing table instead, but I can't complain about that. It's a solution and it works.
The point of this mod however originally was for me to enjoy Nock to Tip a little more, but after seeing the posts on the original forum I decided to share it, to give people more choice and to hopefully end the discussion as I am sure it is rather annoying for the original author.
I am not forcing anyone to use it.
Ren
I will go test this now just to be sure though
I thought about addressing this problem by transforming the re-stringing table in a Smithing Weapon type bench, so you would temper bows there just as you temper them on a grindstone. Smithing would still be the governing skill, but you could impose minimum levels in Archery as condition to temper at a certain level (not sure if this is possible). Each tier of tempering would require a stronger string (I made 6 versions of them ranging from 60lbs to 150lbs. The only problem that prevents me from doing that right now is that i don't know how to make each temper recipe require different ingredients according to the tier. Somebody pointed me to this http://www.creationkit.com/ConstructibleObject_Script, but it would involve scripting - something I have no idea how to do.
Tested restringing grinded and enchanted bows, it works but you lose enchantment and grind values, its just how the re-stringing bench was made and i dont want to actually adjust any files in the knock to tip mod itself.
Ren
What I really want to do is find a way to require different ingredients according to the temper tier. That would solve all my problems.
@ Avastgarde - You mean like you would require more ingredients at a lower level? Or like require new or different ingredients per tier? I think you can use Conditions to check for an item when upgrading, and a simple remove item script to remove it, very similar to how the ingredients work in general but using Condition data. Like how some portable crafting works in a way, where you can force a check for an item, but you'd add the removal script. Haven't checked if that works for Skyrim but I played a lot of New Vegas and it works there. Would be worth looking into. So you'd basically add a condition to check the tier, and corresponding conditions for each. There might be an easier way for Skyrim, I just haven't looked that far into it.
And just to answer the question about how we could add weight to a one piece bow, you could technically put like a "brace" of extra wood or metal on the piece, which would technically be a smithing/crafting skill
EDIT: Left an endorsement + kudos for the patch.
i could set the 80 and 120ib bows to need the string as part of the recipe, so you cannot temper the 80ib bow without an 80ib string
EDIT: Basically, I turned the re-stringing table into a tempering station. I wanted each level of tempering to require a different string (I made four additional levels of strings, so each one of the six will correspond to a tempering tier). I am currently having problems to make the correct recipe display on the grinding menu, as explained on the forum tab of NTT I linked above.
However to save having legedary (Legendary) after the name maybe call them "-stage 2-", "-stage 3-" "stage 4" and "stage 5" or like "S1,S2 ~ S5 and only the S5 can be grinded further at the grind wheel. Only way i can think of doing it without making a new handler script using something like:
If player.getitemcount <String1> >= 1 and player.getitemcount <bowname> >=1
Then set Temperrecipieshown to <temperrecipename>
not sure, its been over 20 years since I did any scripting and I don't like papyrus enough to even try to update myself lol
oh also, retexture a dwemer strut and re add it calling it a "Bow 80Ib Limb pack" and a "bow 100Ib Limb pack" also look at real bows to get an idea of Ib ratings, Its normally around 45 to 120 instead of 80 - 200, God forbid the arm of the person that can effectively use a 200Ib Draw weight bow lol
wish i could help more
Ren
The duplication of recipes would not work for the purposes of Loot and Degradation compatibility, because the weapons really need to be tempered the vanilla way. And I think there would be no point in changing the strings if the bow itself was not reinforced. That's why I opted to merge all steps in one: you use the re-stringing table to reinforce limbs (tempering, which requires the smithing skill) while at the same time you need to have a certain level at archery, otherwise the recipe will not show up, and the right string for that tempering level.
The way I am trying to do it seems promising. I think I can get it to work if I make the right condition prerequisites. I just haven't had time to test it more thoroughly. I'll update the NTT forum when I do.
Regarding draw weight, most olympic recurve archers range from 40-45lbs (women) and 45-50lbs (men). Every now and then you see somebody pulling more than 50lbs, but it's rare. According to FITA rules, compound bows cannot surpass 60lbs, so you have an idea. Anything above that is just pointless because it will not improve performance (if all, it will reduce it, given how much strength you need to keep the form while aiming). Medieval archers are said to have pulled 80-120lbs from what I've read, but the way in which they used bows was very different from modern techniques - much shorter anchoring and aiming time.