I have released a couple of optional variants of Tabula Rasa which differ ONLY in the speed of character progression.
Main File: Progression is at half normal rate. Quarter speed variant: Progression is at quarter normal rate. Eighth speed variant: Progression is at one eighth normal rate.
Otherwise the files are identical.
If you don't have Tabula Rasa installed and wish to install one of the slower variants, just follow the installation instructions in the Description, using the variant instead of the main file.
If you already have the main (1/2 speed) Tabula Rasa mod installed then just overwrite everything with the variant of your choice. It wont matter what level your character is at and will not break anything. Have fun with the slower leveling
The uncapper handles several features which would not be easy to code with only the .esp. Basically it saves me a lot of time in achieving the desired effect.
But the uncapper does NOT stop you from making your skill Legendary. When you get to 100 skill you have the choice to either continue on to 101 + or just hit the legendary button and drop back down to 15. You can choose to do either. Tabula Rasa will still work fine with Legendary skills so don't worry about the uncapper, just pretend it isn't there, let it work its magic in the background and just go Legendary when you reach 100. Or continue on to 101, your choice.
Hello Lucian, Just wondering, can you see any obvious conflicts with your mod and SkyDie - Prepare to Cry Edition by Sagittarius22 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/53745/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D53745%26preview%3D&pUp=1 I think your mod which slows levelling and Skydie could possibly be a truly immersive simple hardcore mod that is stable.
I don't actually play with SkyDie so I cant say 100% for sure, but nothing in the feature list looks like it would conflict with Tabula Rasa. I'm pretty sure they would work well together and the load order shouldn't matter at all.
Looks like a pretty brutal hardcore combination though so good luck, I think you're going to need it
Exactly! In fact depending on whether I feel that I'm still leveling too quickly, I might even release a version of Tabula Rasta where you progress at 1/3, 1/4 or even 1/5 normal speed. It's entirely possible that 1/2 speed is still too fast.
Skyrim is a huge place and it is very annoying to only explore a tiny fraction of it and find out that you have turned into an unstoppable demigod who is unable to find any challenge.
Hey Lucian, Just wondering if you are going to release a 1/4 normal speed. I plan to use a STEP setup with the REGS pack and want much more time to explore the world without the ridiculous fast paced vanilla levelling. I want to turtle the game, become a jack of all trades as such, ie get proficient in nearly all skills, use a few followers etc. From reading your description, this mod sounds ideal but maybe need an even slower levelling system 1/4 speed? Really appreciate any advice..................
I was wondering whether there would be a demand for slower leveling speeds although I have found 1/2 speed to be slow enough for me. You really start to notice it once you get to higher levels.
I'll put together a 1/4 speed version and post it as an optional file, give me a couple of days. Remember it will make your start even tougher because those critical first few levels will be much harder to come by.
Thanks Lucian, er what happens at higher levels when you say you really start to notice it? Really value your opinion on my type of playthrough with STEP and REGS included with your mod. I also plan to include hardcore/realism overhauls like ai combat evolved :http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/56147/? with Duel or another combat mod. I plan to play immersively so will have to train etc. do you recommend any other immersive/realism/hardcore mods?
The way Skyrim leveling works, it takes a lot more experience (and therefore time) to progress from level 21 to 22 than to get from level 1 to 2. So if you have a mod like Tabula Rasa which halves the skill progression rate, the extra delay is going to be a lot more noticeable at higher levels. That's why I think 1/2 speed is ideal for me, it strikes a good balance between avoiding frustration with progressing too quickly at lower levels and avoiding stagnation at higher levels. Everyone is different though, which is why I released the slower variants. You might find 1/4 speed or even 1/8 speed to be just right for you.
I like your idea to do a hardcore/realistic play-through and although I don't have any combat difficulty mods I use several realism and hardcore mods such as Frostfall, INeed, Skyrim Hardcore, Dangerous Wolves, all the guild entry requirement mods, Scarcity, Gold adjustment, Loot and Degradation and Death Alternative (with 50% unconscious death chance), .. I also like really tough starts like you get with BralorMarr's Death Alternative - Alternate Start addon where you can choose to start as a Vampire's thrall, a Thalmor prisoner or a Falmer slave and have to either escape or somehow survive which is a massive challenge when you only have 50 health/magica/stamina, 0 skills and no spells!
Remember if you use one of the Tabula Rasa slow variants, you will be very weak for a relatively long time. That will be a huge challenge in itself and other hardcore/realism mods will only add to the challenge. Best of luck with your game, let me know how it goes!
I love the idea that a new character tells himself, "Hey, I am definitely not wandering into that mine full of bandits, because I will die instantly." That's the way it should be. He should say, "If I really need to go in there, I had better come prepared." Every single mine, fort, etc. is a singular challenge, not a stop along the way to pick up an Elder Scroll.
Thanks for this. New character starting soon. The only thing missing is a Frostfall perk tree without the use of Skyre.
Yes that was the idea with this mod, that your character doesn't start as a slightly inexperienced but multi-talented hero of legend. He starts as a completely ordinary, vulnerable Joe and has to survive and work up to becoming that hero. In my test plays I even had problems with wolf packs when starting. 50 health is not much
Edit: SkyRe is definitely not compatible with Tabula Rasa but vanilla Frostfall works fine, I use it all the time.
Sorry, another question for you. Is it possible to allow a skill to increase but not contribute to the levelling up process or at least slow it down? I'm thinking of skills like Enchanting and Smithing which can have such a distorting effect on levelling.
I suppose the counter argument though would be that you could in theory have a level 1 character with 100 Smithing which would cause a different kind of distortion
Very interesting question. Its possible to alter the amount of character XP you earn from leveling any skill. Its also possible to alter the amount of character XP necessary to advance a Character level.
However to the best of my knowledge its not possible to do so only for specific skill use, altering those values will affect rate of Character Level progression granted by leveling *any* skill, combat or non-combat.
I think the only way to differentially affect how non-combat skills influence character level would be to slow down the rate of skill leveling for each non-combat skill. Which is not really what you're after since you could never get your level 1, 100 smithing character.
Edit: Lol, that being said there is this mod...
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/14365/?
which looks like it stops non-combat skill progression from contributing to character level progression at all. However it seems to have a binary action, either allowing non-combat skills to normally affect character level OR not at all.
Edit #2: All right, after looking into this some more it looks like it *IS* indeed possible to smoothly alter the rate at which specific skills can contribute to character level. It is done via the "Community Uncapper" mod (you have to edit the .ini file) but it is possible to only make level gain in Smithing contribute say 20% of its normal effect towards character level. Nice.
I'm starting to twist my brain thinking about keeping skills in balance.
I think the problem with Smithing is that to increase the skill it just requires grinding jewellery, so it could be argued that it's pointless to even adjust in the first place, but if you don't then it's effect is disproportionate to the other skills.
Slowing Enchanting works as there's a limited supply (same for the other non combat skills) but Smithing is a pain.
I wonder about Sneak as well as that virtually spams itself to 100 so I'm minded that maybe it needs taking lower than a half.
I'll be starting a new game shortly, so I'll see how it works out leaving them all at a half, if it's still too quick it's easy enough to adjust the figures in CK
See edit #2 to the post above your's. The community uncapper mod is able to change how individual skills contribute to character level progression. Sounds like the ultimate fix for the problem of non-combat skills blowing your level up too high.
I've just created a version of Tabula Rasta which works with the Level Uncapper to do the following.......
1/ Start skills at level 0 instead of 15. (same as original version) 2/ Make skills progress at 50% of normal speed. (same as original version)
3/ Make skill leveling only influence character level at 50% of normal rate with NON-COMBAT skills only. 4/ In order to compensate for less perks due to 3/ you get 6 perks for every 5 character levels.
Currently game-testing on a new start. If it works well, I'll release it as an update to Tabula Rasta. It should allow you to gain a reasonable amount of non-combat skill levels (twice as many) without pushing character level up to the point that you are no longer competitive with the game's level scaling. At least that's the plan.
I can confirm this mod incompatible with SkyRe. The problem is when you use this mod it overwrites the SkyRe skill trees, reverting them back to the vanilla ones. However, it's possible to start a new game with SkyRe and Tabula Rasta and have all of your skills at 0 (except race perks) then save, close the game, uninstall Tabula Rasta, and start the game again. If you do that, your respective skills should all be at 0 and you'll still have SkyRe's skill trees. The only downside is you won't have Rasta's level slowing ability. But, if you just wanted to start with a clean slate, then you could do this. Unless someone comes out with a patch, of course.
It would probably also work if you just put SkyRe lower in the load order so that it overrides Tabula Rasta. It would avoid the saving, closing and reloading and you'd have your zero skills, but you would still lose the 1/2 speed level progression.
Well, I placed Tabula Rasta above all of the SkyRe files and ran the SkyProc Patcher and I got the skill trees back, but I'm unsure if the 1/2 speed level progression would work properly with most of the perks because SkyRe changes the codenames of many of the perks, although I'm unsure of how you implemented this system and the names may not matter anyway.
I would be glad to be proven wrong, because this mod looks very useful and I would like to use it in tandem with my other mods.
No I'm pretty certain that you will no longer have 1/2 speed level progression with your current setup, SkyRe would almost certainly have overridden it and your progression will be whatever the author intended. The only way to get slower progression - and still maintain the custom skills/perks - would be to actually create a modded version of SkyRe.
Well, I wouldn't say it's the only way. There's the possibility of someone making a patch for the two, then the problems with load order would be eliminated and, if there's a problem with it, maintain the 1/2 speed leveling. The reason I say "if there's a problem" is, to my knowledge, SkyRe doesn't affect the speed at which you level up.
I was just looking at your mod in CK and noticed that you use Skill Use Offset and Skill Improve Offset. I'm just curious as to what the Offsets actually do
I haven't actually changed the "skill use offset" or "skill improve offset" values from their vanilla versions. Fire up CK without the mod and you will see that they are all the same.
Skill use offset: Increases the amount of skill experience you get from using a skill by a linear amount. Skill improve offset: Increases the amount of skill experience necessary to level a skill by a linear amount.
I actually did mess with "Skill Improve Offset" when I was making the mod but decided in the end that it made low level skills take too long to level up and just left everything at its default level. It seemed logical to me that low level skills would level quite quickly and slowing the actual progression to 50% seemed more than enough without also increasing the amount of XP needed to level a skill.
I achieved the slow skill progression by halving the values for "Skill use multiplier" for each skill. So using any skill in the game now only gives you half as much experience as vanilla.
Thanks for explaining that. I had a look on the CK pages and UESP Wiki and although they mention the offsets they don't actually say what they do (unless I missed it somewhere).
I did notice the large change on Smithing does that now remove the increase based on value and put it back to items created?
EDIT: Ignore the Smithing bit, I was being a noob and looking at Skyrim.esm and not Update.esm
well this is a good idea and worthy for endorsment
i d like to give you an idea. becouse i have no talent and no time i cant mod. but as soon as ive seen your mod i was strock with a briliant idea
is it possible to divide the skill progression with the leveling progression?
you would level up your skills by doing them but your level will only rise by erning exp points for : discovering location rise your skills to some points (say for x skill points 10 or 20% exp) and solving quests
i dont know if this would result in an overpowered character but id would solve the legendery skill problem of high level with low skills and it would make adventuring more worthy^^
That's a very interesting idea, make it more like D& where you progress by doing and achieving stuff rather than only using your skills.
But as far as I know skill progression is hard-code tied to level progression. You can alter the rates at which they are linked but not the fact that they are linked. It might be possible but it would take a modder with much more than my meager understanding of the game.
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Main File: Progression is at half normal rate.
Quarter speed variant: Progression is at quarter normal rate.
Eighth speed variant: Progression is at one eighth normal rate.
Otherwise the files are identical.
If you don't have Tabula Rasa installed and wish to install one of the slower variants, just follow the installation instructions in the Description, using the variant instead of the main file.
If you already have the main (1/2 speed) Tabula Rasa mod installed then just overwrite everything with the variant of your choice. It wont matter what level your character is at and will not break anything. Have fun with the slower leveling
But the uncapper does NOT stop you from making your skill Legendary. When you get to 100 skill you have the choice to either continue on to 101 + or just hit the legendary button and drop back down to 15. You can choose to do either. Tabula Rasa will still work fine with Legendary skills so don't worry about the uncapper, just pretend it isn't there, let it work its magic in the background and just go Legendary when you reach 100. Or continue on to 101, your choice.
Just wondering, can you see any obvious conflicts with your mod and SkyDie - Prepare to Cry Edition by Sagittarius22
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/53745/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D53745%26preview%3D&pUp=1
I think your mod which slows levelling and Skydie could possibly be a truly immersive simple hardcore mod that is stable.
Looks like a pretty brutal hardcore combination though so good luck, I think you're going to need it
Skyrim is a huge place and it is very annoying to only explore a tiny fraction of it and find out that you have turned into an unstoppable demigod who is unable to find any challenge.
Just wondering if you are going to release a 1/4 normal speed. I plan to use a STEP setup with the REGS pack and want much more time to explore the world without the ridiculous fast paced vanilla levelling. I want to turtle the game, become a jack of all trades as such, ie get proficient in nearly all skills, use a few followers etc.
From reading your description, this mod sounds ideal but maybe need an even slower levelling system 1/4 speed?
Really appreciate any advice..................
I'll put together a 1/4 speed version and post it as an optional file, give me a couple of days. Remember it will make your start even tougher because those critical first few levels will be much harder to come by.
do you recommend any other immersive/realism/hardcore mods?
I like your idea to do a hardcore/realistic play-through and although I don't have any combat difficulty mods I use several realism and hardcore mods such as Frostfall, INeed, Skyrim Hardcore, Dangerous Wolves, all the guild entry requirement mods, Scarcity, Gold adjustment, Loot and Degradation and Death Alternative (with 50% unconscious death chance), .. I also like really tough starts like you get with BralorMarr's Death Alternative - Alternate Start addon where you can choose to start as a Vampire's thrall, a Thalmor prisoner or a Falmer slave and have to either escape or somehow survive which is a massive challenge when you only have 50 health/magica/stamina, 0 skills and no spells!
Remember if you use one of the Tabula Rasa slow variants, you will be very weak for a relatively long time. That will be a huge challenge in itself and other hardcore/realism mods will only add to the challenge. Best of luck with your game, let me know how it goes!
Thanks for this. New character starting soon. The only thing missing is a Frostfall perk tree without the use of Skyre.
Edit: SkyRe is definitely not compatible with Tabula Rasa but vanilla Frostfall works fine, I use it all the time.
Anyway though, great mod!
I suppose the counter argument though would be that you could in theory have a level 1 character with 100 Smithing which would cause a different kind of distortion
However to the best of my knowledge its not possible to do so only for specific skill use, altering those values will affect rate of Character Level progression granted by leveling *any* skill, combat or non-combat.
I think the only way to differentially affect how non-combat skills influence character level would be to slow down the rate of skill leveling for each non-combat skill. Which is not really what you're after since you could never get your level 1, 100 smithing character.
Edit: Lol, that being said there is this mod...
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/14365/?
which looks like it stops non-combat skill progression from contributing to character level progression at all. However it seems to have a binary action, either allowing non-combat skills to normally affect character level OR not at all.
Edit #2: All right, after looking into this some more it looks like it *IS* indeed possible to smoothly alter the rate at which specific skills can contribute to character level. It is done via the "Community Uncapper" mod (you have to edit the .ini file) but it is possible to only make level gain in Smithing contribute say 20% of its normal effect towards character level. Nice.
I think the problem with Smithing is that to increase the skill it just requires grinding jewellery, so it could be argued that it's pointless to even adjust in the first place, but if you don't then it's effect is disproportionate to the other skills.
Slowing Enchanting works as there's a limited supply (same for the other non combat skills) but Smithing is a pain.
I wonder about Sneak as well as that virtually spams itself to 100 so I'm minded that maybe it needs taking lower than a half.
I'll be starting a new game shortly, so I'll see how it works out leaving them all at a half, if it's still too quick it's easy enough to adjust the figures in CK
1/ Start skills at level 0 instead of 15. (same as original version)
2/ Make skills progress at 50% of normal speed. (same as original version)
3/ Make skill leveling only influence character level at 50% of normal rate with NON-COMBAT skills only.
4/ In order to compensate for less perks due to 3/ you get 6 perks for every 5 character levels.
Currently game-testing on a new start. If it works well, I'll release it as an update to Tabula Rasta. It should allow you to gain a reasonable amount of non-combat skill levels (twice as many) without pushing character level up to the point that you are no longer competitive with the game's level scaling. At least that's the plan.
I would be glad to be proven wrong, because this mod looks very useful and I would like to use it in tandem with my other mods.
Skill use offset: Increases the amount of skill experience you get from using a skill by a linear amount.
Skill improve offset: Increases the amount of skill experience necessary to level a skill by a linear amount.
I actually did mess with "Skill Improve Offset" when I was making the mod but decided in the end that it made low level skills take too long to level up and just left everything at its default level. It seemed logical to me that low level skills would level quite quickly and slowing the actual progression to 50% seemed more than enough without also increasing the amount of XP needed to level a skill.
I achieved the slow skill progression by halving the values for "Skill use multiplier" for each skill. So using any skill in the game now only gives you half as much experience as vanilla.
I did notice the large change on Smithing does that now remove the increase based on value and put it back to items created?
EDIT: Ignore the Smithing bit, I was being a noob and looking at Skyrim.esm and not Update.esm
i d like to give you an idea.
becouse i have no talent and no time i cant mod.
but as soon as ive seen your mod i was strock with a briliant idea
is it possible to divide the skill progression with the leveling progression?
you would level up your skills by doing them but your level will only rise by erning exp points for :
discovering location
rise your skills to some points (say for x skill points 10 or 20% exp)
and solving quests
i dont know if this would result in an overpowered character but id would solve the legendery skill problem of high level with low skills
and it would make adventuring more worthy^^
But as far as I know skill progression is hard-code tied to level progression. You can alter the rates at which they are linked but not the fact that they are linked. It might be possible but it would take a modder with much more than my meager understanding of the game.