This mod is really awesome because it's probably the closest to the DK gameplay mechanic. You really get a similar feeling during duels and I really enjoy it.
Now I have noticed 2 main issue that "broke" the immersion :
1) when using an enchanted weapon and perform a parry the riposte animation doesn't trigger. As soon as I use a REGULAR weapon with NO ECHANTMENTS it works everytime (I can provide a video if you want)
2) I have set the magnitude of stagger on heavy but it seems to work only on me and not on the npcs. Besides, stagger seems to be triggered by power attacks only, even if i put the normal mult at the same level (x5) than power attack
That being said, I would suggest a poise system based on a simplified form of DkSII :
Poise is a bar that allows you not get stun (staggered) when you get hit by an attack. There are 2 main cases :
1) If you get hit and your poise is depleted, you're stun and as soon as the animation stun ends, your poise IS RESET TO FULL. It's the 2 hits combo system : 1 hit > poise broken > stun > 2nd hit > ends of stun animation > you can rolling escape
2) If you have more poise than the incoming atk you you will not be staggered and you can continue to perform actions In this second case, your poise is not depleted and it begins to refill at a rate of 0.56 poise per second. This is extremely slow. So slow that the only effective way to get your poise back is to get hit down to ZERO to allow it to instantly reset. This is very interesting because you're able "to trade" the 2nd incoming hit by performing yourself an atk to your opponent. it's also means that you need more hits with a light weapon to get your adversary staggered.
That's the theory because there are some another parameters like hyper armor,direct hit system...
Practical case study with this mod :
You're opponent is wearing a full daedric amor 96 weight so 96 poise. You're using the murakumo (from Dark Souls Weapon enhanced) with 16 weight so 16 poise atk You have set the normal atk multiplier to 3 so one swing : 16 x 3 = 48 poise atk It means to stagger your adversary you need to hit him twice : 1 hit > not stun > 2nd hit > stun , your opponent is not able to block or to parry or to atk you anymore > 3rd hit The thing is with light weapon like steel sword, you need to hit 4 times before to get a 2hit combo. And since you probably use a mod that makes the AI more agressive, it will be very challenging to get these 4 hits, especially if the adversary blocks often and use a very heavy weapon that instantly stunlock you.
The main difference is that the poise is back to full after the end of stun/stagger animation so you don't need the 3 seconds of immunity ! You get the 2 hits combo with the stun and voila, THERE ARE NO INFINITE STUNLOCKS. Furthermore you can simply set the poise recovery rate at a low level and that way, it would prevent stress on papyrus
I hope it can help you to improve that amazing mod
Peace
ps : I use Ultimate Combat + Combat Evolved + Dark Souls Combat (=Poise System)
I must say this is a great mod that does poise better than any other mod I've tried,excellent work!
But it seems to have a small BUG. When enemies get a big stagger by a strong attack or a shout, the next normal attack will cause a big stagger too,that is very annoying.Could you fix it? I love this mod so much?
By the way,could I have your permission to translate it into Chinese and post on this website: http://www.skycitizen.net/ of course I will indicate the original url and author. I am waiting and hoping for your answer. Thanks so much for your work.
I'm not sure that I can fix that. The code is set up to be very robust with how long staggers last. Everything is timed and the script is supposed to stop staggers as appropriate. If it can't stop it currently, then I fear there's nothing I can do. This mod has been succeeded by Dark Souls Combat. You can use a search engine to find that mod.
For Poise System, feel free to translate or otherwise alter the mod in any way and upload it to any site of your choice. For Dark Souls Combat, feel free to translate or otherwise alter the mod in any way. However, do not upload any derivatives of the Dark Souls Combat mod to the Nexus; any other site is fine.
What a shame...If only the staggers cause by power attack could be count independently,like in ActionCombat,that would be much better. Anyway, thanks so much for your reply.
I must go to see Dark Souls Combat, haha, that sounds perfect.
Yeah that is a bug that I addressed in the successor to this mod, Dark Souls Combat. You may wish to consider using that mod. Please use a search engine to find it.
This looks intersting, as with Action Combat however, it seems like it's not going to be worked on anymore(A shame ><, but I'd like to ask a question...if you're a spellblade, or purely mage type character that uses alteration to give yourself armor, how does that work to this poise system? Does it still just calculate the weight of your light clothing?
This is a great mod that does poise better than any other mod I've tried, but heads up to any Requiem users: This mod creates a blue swirling magic effect over certain high level NPCs (Ulfric, Tullius, and I think a few others). According to Requiem's creator, this is the reason: " Some mods use invisible Aura spells to detect certain things (like Cerwiden and Vilja using these to determine if someone needs healing) - If these effects are not flagged as Unabsorbable, things with Absorb Magic abilities will display this blue swirl"
Just a heads up, to anyone thinking of using this with Requiem.
When my game crashes, one of your mod's script called "BB_Poise_MonitorPoiseScript.psc" pops up sometimes at the end of my papyrus log, before the "vm is freezing". Is the crash caused by your mod or is it because my save is corrupted?
Essentially the issue is that when the poise "Ability" gets added to NPCs, the script uses update events to deal with much of the poise recovery and staggering. The problem comes up that when you leave an area, the game says there are all these update events hanging around associated with all the NPCs in the previous cell and it doesn't know what to do with it! Hence script problems... Then, I tried telling the game, "Don't worry, bro. Just unregister all those events!"... and the game replies, "They're in a different cell... I can't call those unregisters!" which causes even more problems... *facepalm*
how about making the mod err... automatically remove aaaaany poise system related scripts from aaaaaany actors when they're out of range from the player instead of telling the mod to do the uh... call unregisters thingy when you're changing cell?
This way, Npcs will only be given any poise system related ability/scripts only when you're near them.
Also, how about making the mod detect if there's any hostile npc around? If there's no hostile npcs around you, the mod will not give any poise scripts to absolutely no freakin' one. nada, the mod's is bassically turned off. If there's at least one hostile npc, then the mod will be awaken (insert epic music here) and it will place all of it's scripts to any actors indiscriminately, but only when they're near player.
Yeah in the script, there is a certain range where the spell will be removed if they are too far from the player, but to be frank, I'm not sure it really does that much good in the long run. The big concern is when the player changes cells. I was told that the effects would automatically dispel when the player changes cell (as a game engine thing) but something must be going wrong because there are more errors being generated than would be expected. As for having to only affect NPCs in combat... I kind of want to be able to hit random NPCs and see them stagger, otherwise it ruins the "IMMURZION".
From day 1, trying to figure out what's fundamentally going wrong that causes these sorts of issues has been driving me up the wall!
If i were you, i'd choose stability over immersion all day erry day. But it's your choice mate.
hmm... how 'bout you take a look at EHSE? The mod author claims that it has the ability to remove scripts on cell transition. Might want to take a look at it.
It also has the ability remove scripts on death. Might be useful.
So one day, i try using action combat with your equipment restriction. With both mod combined, they could cause my character to stagger uncontrollably and very badly if i try to attack with 0 stamina.
You should try to implement this B, it's freakin' awesome!
The mod sounds very good, was waiting for this for a while now, I will try it now, but I think you made a small mistake (assuming of course you wanted to carry over DaS's poise system to skyrim) and that is that in DaS when you get your poise down to 0 and get staggered, your poise maxes out immediately, it also recovers over time, but the rate is veeeery slow, so no need to add that 3 secs invulnerability, if you have a weapon that can deplete an enemy's poise in one hit, then you can stun lock said enemy, same for you, I think that way is very balanced.
That's not how I remember it. In fact, it was almost the opposite from my experience. Before, I and most people learned about toggle-escapes, the stun combos seemed almost as bad as the ones in DkS2. And, I'm sure that Poise recovers fairly fast because otherwise, it'd be a hell lot easier to poise-break those Giant Dads.
Yes, in DaS you got stun locked and needed the toggle-escape, or that the attacker ran out of stamina. The poise does recover very slow, remember, when the stamina gets depleted to 0, it gets instantly filled to max automatically, a giant dad has over 100 poise, so there's nothing that can stun lock them, because you would need a weapon that does 100 poise damage every hit. I still don't think a 3 sec invulnerability is optimal, how about instead make that attacks drain stamina? I guess that's a better solution, though the amount should be fairly big, and different from weapon to weapon...Oh, wait, you would have to make it so you can't attack with 0 stamina, and I have yet to see a mod that does that, nor requiem, skyRe or combat mod I've seen does that.
I disagree. I did some more research. According to the DkS wikidot, poise recovers as a percentage of your total poise at a rate of 20-25% per second. Now, this is certainly different from the default settings for this mod where poise recovers at a set rate of 20 points per 3 seconds regardless of max poise (I set it to 3 seconds by default to prevent too much stress on Papyrus), but this can be adjusted in the MCM (options for the update time and the amount recovered). Now, I'm also certain that poise does not recover to the maximum upon a stun (poise reaches zero). At least during the time of the Dragon Head glitch, one player threw an infinite string of Throwing Knives at me, machine-gun-style. Once I got staggered, he kept me there until I died. If my poise had indeed refilled to maximum upon a stun, then I would have been able to immediately get out of it until he hit me again with several more. Now, the reason for the invincibility is really for the player's benefit. In some people's games, enemies keep hitting until one of you is dead, so I never wanted the player to experience a point where they might as well put down the controller because they were going to get stunned to death. Of course, to be fair, I had to extend this to enemies as well.
Since you mention a mod that won't allow attacks at 0 stamina... I have tried, believe me. I tried to have a script detect when the player tries to hit the attack button and then see if they have more than 0 stamina, and then stop the attack if so, but it's too slow and just look awkward.
139 comments
Now I have noticed 2 main issue that "broke" the immersion :
1) when using an enchanted weapon and perform a parry the riposte animation doesn't trigger. As soon as I use a REGULAR weapon with NO ECHANTMENTS it
works everytime (I can provide a video if you want)
2) I have set the magnitude of stagger on heavy but it seems to work only on me and not on the npcs. Besides, stagger seems to be triggered by power
attacks only, even if i put the normal mult at the same level (x5) than power attack
That being said, I would suggest a poise system based on a simplified form of DkSII :
Poise is a bar that allows you not get stun (staggered) when you get hit by an attack. There are 2 main cases :
1) If you get hit and your poise is depleted, you're stun and as soon as the animation stun ends, your poise IS RESET TO FULL. It's the 2 hits combo system : 1 hit > poise broken > stun > 2nd hit > ends of stun animation > you can rolling escape
2) If you have more poise than the incoming atk you you will not be staggered and you can continue to perform actions
In this second case, your poise is not depleted and it begins to refill at a rate of 0.56 poise per second. This is extremely slow. So slow that the only effective way to get your poise back is to get hit down to ZERO to allow it to instantly reset.
This is very interesting because you're able "to trade" the 2nd incoming hit by performing yourself an atk to your opponent.
it's also means that you need more hits with a light weapon to get your adversary staggered.
That's the theory because there are some another parameters like hyper armor,direct hit system...
Practical case study with this mod :
You're opponent is wearing a full daedric amor 96 weight so 96 poise.
You're using the murakumo (from Dark Souls Weapon enhanced) with 16 weight so 16 poise atk
You have set the normal atk multiplier to 3 so one swing : 16 x 3 = 48 poise atk
It means to stagger your adversary you need to hit him twice : 1 hit > not stun > 2nd hit > stun , your opponent is not able to block or to parry or to atk you anymore > 3rd hit
The thing is with light weapon like steel sword, you need to hit 4 times before to get a 2hit combo. And since you probably use a mod that makes the AI more agressive, it will be very challenging to get these 4 hits, especially if the adversary blocks often and use a very heavy weapon that instantly stunlock you.
The main difference is that the poise is back to full after the end of stun/stagger animation so you don't need the 3 seconds of immunity ! You get the 2 hits combo with the stun and voila, THERE ARE NO INFINITE STUNLOCKS. Furthermore you can simply set the poise recovery rate at a low level and that way, it would prevent stress on papyrus
I hope it can help you to improve that amazing mod
Peace
ps : I use Ultimate Combat + Combat Evolved + Dark Souls Combat (=Poise System)
But it seems to have a small BUG. When enemies get a big stagger by a strong attack or a shout, the next normal attack will cause a big stagger too,that is very annoying.Could you fix it? I love this mod so much?
By the way,could I have your permission to translate it into Chinese and post on this website: http://www.skycitizen.net/ of course I will indicate the original url and author. I am waiting and hoping for your answer. Thanks so much for your work.
For Poise System, feel free to translate or otherwise alter the mod in any way and upload it to any site of your choice. For Dark Souls Combat, feel free to translate or otherwise alter the mod in any way. However, do not upload any derivatives of the Dark Souls Combat mod to the Nexus; any other site is fine.
What a shame...If only the staggers cause by power attack could be count independently,like in ActionCombat,that would be much better. Anyway, thanks so much for your reply.
I must go to see Dark Souls Combat, haha, that sounds perfect.
Just a heads up, to anyone thinking of using this with Requiem.
For ages, users from my most downloaded mod were telling me about that. Dammit! Gotta release a patch... for a mod I swore I'd never work on again...
The mod seems to really eventually bog down a save game.
What am i supposed to do with my life without my Dark Soulsified Skyrim? D':
Essentially the issue is that when the poise "Ability" gets added to NPCs, the script uses update events to deal with much of the poise recovery and staggering. The problem comes up that when you leave an area, the game says there are all these update events hanging around associated with all the NPCs in the previous cell and it doesn't know what to do with it! Hence script problems... Then, I tried telling the game, "Don't worry, bro. Just unregister all those events!"... and the game replies, "They're in a different cell... I can't call those unregisters!" which causes even more problems... *facepalm*
This way, Npcs will only be given any poise system related ability/scripts only when you're near them.
Also, how about making the mod detect if there's any hostile npc around? If there's no hostile npcs around you, the mod will not give any poise scripts to absolutely no freakin' one. nada, the mod's is bassically turned off. If there's at least one hostile npc, then the mod will be awaken (insert epic music here) and it will place all of it's scripts to any actors indiscriminately, but only when they're near player.
stupid suggestion maybe? :V
From day 1, trying to figure out what's fundamentally going wrong that causes these sorts of issues has been driving me up the wall!
hmm... how 'bout you take a look at EHSE? The mod author claims that it has the ability to remove scripts on cell transition. Might want to take a look at it.
It also has the ability remove scripts on death. Might be useful.
You should try to implement this B, it's freakin' awesome!
The poise does recover very slow, remember, when the stamina gets depleted to 0, it gets instantly filled to max automatically, a giant dad has over 100 poise, so there's nothing that can stun lock them, because you would need a weapon that does 100 poise damage every hit.
I still don't think a 3 sec invulnerability is optimal, how about instead make that attacks drain stamina? I guess that's a better solution, though the amount should be fairly big, and different from weapon to weapon...Oh, wait, you would have to make it so you can't attack with 0 stamina, and I have yet to see a mod that does that, nor requiem, skyRe or combat mod I've seen does that.
Since you mention a mod that won't allow attacks at 0 stamina... I have tried, believe me. I tried to have a script detect when the player tries to hit the attack button and then see if they have more than 0 stamina, and then stop the attack if so, but it's too slow and just look awkward.