ey, very fun mod especially with ASIS since you know, draugrs tend to spam shouts at you (im using 'draugr dont shout - disarm only' though).
ive run into a very weird bug: if a dragon gets hit with a followers shout, theyre stuck halfway inside the ground sideways unable to do anything and are 'ghosts'. by ghosts i mean theyre just stuck AND they lose their physic box, you can ghost right through them. they only take damage when shouted at.
Hmmm, that's odd. But then I've got something gimping dragon spawns in my game altogether, except for the scripted events where Alduin does his thing. And I'm at the point where I have to either host the peace council or do the CW, so I should have dragons everywhere. They're not even spawning at their walls. They did once, but never again. I've killed one dragon at Mt Anthor. Just one. I should've seen at least 3 there by now.
For the few that have spawned, my followers turn them into flying pincushions with a volley of arrows long before a Shout gets to them (6 archers with over-cranked bows).
I'm also getting multiple Stalker Dragons. Has that increased dramatically in your game? Have you seen them just over the horizon hanging in mid-air and dead until you get just a bit closer?
Which Dragon-related mods are you running? Dragon Combat Overhaul? Deadly Dragons? There may be a conflict where those types of mods call a scripted event when hit by a shout, but it assumes the Player did it, and thus freaks out when the "PlayerRef" function target returns false, yet whatever condition for "Shout" returns true.
I'm not familiar with ASIS, though I have seen it mentioned before. Does it affect Dragons?
I'm running DCO, but as I said, they usually end up as a pincushion before a Shout can touch them. Dragonrend works, but none of the followers has that.
Is it *any* follower or a specific one? If it's just one, I may be able to isolate the issue if I can recreate the scene in my game.
I have gotten the "Crashed T-pose Ghost bug" on the Xbox360, however, with everything (giants, spiders, wolves, people, dragons, slaughterfish), so it could be that rare vanilla issue firing by coincidence. Unless it's every time. If that's the case, then there's definitely a conflict of some sort. I may have to find a Condition that assigns blame to the Player, if it exists, or there may be a load order issue between IHAH and the given Dragon mod.
I've been play-testing the mod for several months, though I do admit the most recent refinements (where followers don't go hostile on each other) were only tested in a confined space for about 3 days while I tweaked the Conditions on their Shouts. Those Conditions are fairly simple: 1. Subject: GetInFaction: CurrentFollowerFaction = 0 AND 2. Subject: IsInCombat 1 = 1
so basically it's saying that the Magic Effect (i.e. Shout damage) will only occur to those who are not in the Current Follower Faction AND who are engaged in combat. Both Conditions must be met, and certainly Dragons do meet them, but I can't see where those would send a Dragon into Crashed T-pose Ghost by themselves.
Do you also get moonwalking dead? While doing test runs and filming the video, at one point I had 5 of them.
While we're on the subject, one bug you will definitely get - and I apologize for neglecting to mention this in the description - is that if someone does a kill move (lifting up with both swords, or otherwise any move where they "warp" into position) and the victim is hit with a Shout before the paired animation ends, the victim becomes immortal until the person who was doing the kill move actually kills them. Not gamebreaking, but it straddles the line between annoying and hilarious. Good way to level up one-handed, though.
And while the latest tweaks have almost fully removed the possibility, if you get hit with Iona's Ice Form when you're in a Kill Cam, your camera will be crippled beyond hope unless you reload a save. I've tried every camera-related console command to get out of it, but to no avail. Like I said, you shouldn't see that bug, but don't turn your back on Iona in a fight, just in case.
for stalking dragons, use this ;P - http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/54274/? -. the sin of me killing paarthy stayed with me on xbox XD. dragons are ALMOST spawning normally for me. i did forget to include dragons in ASISs blocklist, so im getting a few per spawn + DCOs 'mating call' thing summoning other dragons.
ASIS - http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/18436/? im using it as a spell, perk and spawn increaser, no combat AI. as for dragon combat related mods im using (in the same plugin order) Amazing Follower Tweaks, NPC Knockout Overhaul, Deadly Dragons, The Real Way To Shout, violens, Dragon Combat Overhual dragonborn, More Brains, IHAH, and Duel Combat Realism. i did use mod organizer and LOOT but i sort of dont like it and ended up tweaking the load order a bit.
AFT - more followers, give them 'none' under combat styles so they shout and load before IHAH. NPCKO - instead of taking a knee, they 'passout' like they did in oblivion. conflicts with DCO (SCONUtil.psx), author did say to use his over DCO DD - just more dragons TRWTS - stronger vanilla shouts violens - killcam mod, i just disabled all killcams. once i accidentally decaped all of those 'cure werewolf with witches head' things DCO - smarter dragons MB - more combat active AI DCR - smarter AI
the ghosting dragon happens around a third of the time IMO. it usually happens when they land with a few seconds in delay if theyre hit with shouts (excluding dragonrend). i was completely bugged (battle for markath (stormcloak attack), traded markath for riften (season unending), quest not updating itself -.-) when i killed alduin so i had to delete the save, in a bit i might be able to battle alduin again and watch what happens. its probably the only battle where offensive shouts are used against dragons by NPCs and not only by your mod.
on a side note regarding followers
they do seem to spam worse than draugrs, they use shouts as often as magic against unreachable targets with a few seconds in delay. i did use AFT to teach them spells but yeah, your mod cant see them. not a big problem IMO, ill give them some bows and arrows next time.
they do sometimes fight amongst themselves, but a simple AFT - power key - summon resets them.
EDIT
they do use magic, i just forgot i didnt teach them magic on an older save
the ghosting bugs not only for dragons, but for other things that arent suppose to ragdoll around, like dragon priests. but unlike dragons they still have their box but only take damage from shouts as well
If you want them to not spam Shouts, take away their Amulet of the Windcaller. I guess I should have also mentioned there's one for the Player on the table in Helgen Keep next to Gunjar's body. At any rate, you can give them a standard Amulet of Talos or let them go without one to reduce the spamming. They'll default to their regular combat style (magic, ranger. or melee) while in cooldown. One interesting note I've discovered is that if they can't spam Shouts, as the game progresses, they'll save their Shouts for the finisher. They'll start out in the beginning using them as the opener, but the AI adapts so that they use them more strategically.
Or you can console their shoutrecoverymult to a custom setting. The Windcaller Amulet sets it to 100. The Talos amulet sets it to 20. However, that much consoling has typically caused me problems.
Ahhh, I think I see the problem regarding the crashed dragons. Apparently there's something about Iona's Ice Form that causes it. I consoled 2 Revered and 2 Elder Dragons, and as soon as the Revered was hit with Ice Form, he caked up like a normal enemy, then immediately went into the sideways t-pose and could only be hurt by Shouts or really strong magic like Thunderbolt or Incinerate. Didn't happen with the Elders, though.
I added another Condition to the magic effect that says not to affect Dragons, tested it again, and it appears to have fixed the problem. Updated version has been uploaded.
Alright, well, the hilarity of watching Shouting Immortal Psycho Hosebeasts is wearing a bit thin, so I'm updating the mod to eliminate the post-game fights that break out from late hits.
So far, Rayya's Cyclone Shout is fixed, which means her Tornado From Behind won't send anyone sailing, thus resulting in in-fighting.
Iona's Ice Form Shout needs tweaking - she's not freezing her teammates with a late hit, but there's an issue where her 1st-Word "burp" after combat ends will hit someone and aggro them. They're not being Popsicled, but it's enough for a "why you.." and the fights break out. Same with Jordis' Fire Breath Shout. It's just the 1st-Word "burp" when they're putting their weapon away, though.
The only two still giving me real trouble are Jenassa's Marked For Death and, of course, Lydia's Unrelenting Force. These two are proving overly complicated.
I'm using Conditions on the Magic Effects and the Spells (since Shouts are Spells) to specify what criteria a victim/target must meet. With Rayya it's simple - not in CurrentFollowerFaction and InCombat. Boom. No trouble. With everyone else, it's not enough. I'm at the point now where I'm about to start populating the Conditions stack with "Isn't Lydia, Isn't Jordis, Isn't Mjoll, ...."
I'm really trying to avoid a huge Conditional stack though, but it's probably better than yet another poorly-written Script.
I'm tweaking and testing a lot, and recording videos so folks can see it in action once it's working properly. When it works, it's epic. When it fails, it's an epic fail.
here is the thing though Ulfric Stormcloak is not a young man he trained with the greybeards for over 10 years and he barley knows a few shouts and looking at the age of the housecarls I doubt they would have any skill in the thu'um at their age unless they were trained when they were children and I highly doubt that.
Well, yeah, there's that. Some are more gifted than others, as Arngeir mentions. He says it took "years" for even the most gifted of them to learn what the Dragonborn learned in a few days. Theoretically, one could argue that the Housecarls either volunteered or were inducted into general military service at a young age for various reasons, and were outstanding enough to warrant being inducted into the Jarl's pool of Housecarls.
This is not something that every Town and Tower Guard can achieve, as can be seen clearly.
It's also not too much of a stretch to imagine that those who went into Adventuring at a young age had a mentor who helped develop their innate abilities, and perhaps recognized a greater potential, and persuaded them to make the pilgrimage to High Hrothgar.
Then you have those who may have come from a distinctly troubled childhood or otherwise had "issues" that would have led them down the path of being a Bandit or Marauder, but were instead sent or taken to the Greybeards by a caring individual, and there they were taught meditative techniques and "scream therapy", for lack of a better term, which led to them developing the ability to Shout.
Here in the "real world", there are documented cases of people exhibiting abilities beyond their normal range, and even those classified as "super-human", given the right set of circumstances - a woman pushes a 1-ton vehicle off her child, etc.
In the case of the Sentient-AI Psycho known as Lydia, there's really no telling with her. Troubled childhood or kicked out of Oblivion for being "too scary", either one is possible.
For Jordis, it's not unreasonable to assume she's the daughter of a Legate or other high-ranking military officer, and thus was schooled in combat at a young age by her father. That would lead to a disciplined mindset that would facilitate her being able to learn at least one Shout in just a few years. This could also apply to Rayya, given the harsh conditions of the Alik'r desert and naturally combative culture of Redguards.
Iona is hard to read. She has the bearing of a Military Brat, with the determined, impassive gaze of a natural-born serial killer. That's the kind of mind that would lend itself well to dedicated study, especially if it meant coming away with something like a Shout.
For Jenassa, Dark Elves are long-lived similar to High Elves, so she would certainly have the time and not show the years as visibly as a Nord or Imperial or Breton.
Mjoll. Well, she's got the Gift Of Gab, and she's no Spring Chicken. Whose to say she wasn't Shouting her way through Mzinchaleft when her backside was handed to her by a Centurion? She's certainly got the years to show for it.
Ulfric isn't exactly the epitome of Norditude - he's a Jarl's son only by luck of birth, and was captured by the Thalmor and indoctrinated into their service as an asset, which is indicative of a weak mind. His leadership is built upon his birthright and the sheeple who have a deep-seeded disdain for non-Nords. For him to take 10 years to learn one Shout would not be all that impressive when compared to someone who has a higher aptitude for it.
I mean, who are the Draugr Deathlords that they should all have the ability to Shout? They had to have learned it in life, as it can't have been bestowed to them by the Dragon Priests in undeath. They would have to have been talented/gifted warriors in life to receive training from the Priests (if not Paarthurnax) for the defence of the temples.
They can't have had Dragon Blood.
Then again, I don't recall any of the vanilla Dragon Priests being able to Shout. Typically they bust out an Elemental Cloak and a Staff of Elemental Pwnery, so perhaps even they were not worthy of training with their Dragon Masters. This adds further credence to the notion that the Dragons chose exceptional warriors to teach the Voice to long before Paarthurnax had his Divine Intervention Moment.
Since the Lore in this regard is open-ended, it's wide open for interpretation, and this is how I interpret it for the purposes of the mod.
Everyone is free and welcome to interpret it any way they choose.
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ive run into a very weird bug: if a dragon gets hit with a followers shout, theyre stuck halfway inside the ground sideways unable to do anything and are 'ghosts'. by ghosts i mean theyre just stuck AND they lose their physic box, you can ghost right through them. they only take damage when shouted at.
For the few that have spawned, my followers turn them into flying pincushions with a volley of arrows long before a Shout gets to them (6 archers with over-cranked bows).
I'm also getting multiple Stalker Dragons. Has that increased dramatically in your game? Have you seen them just over the horizon hanging in mid-air and dead until you get just a bit closer?
Which Dragon-related mods are you running? Dragon Combat Overhaul? Deadly Dragons? There may be a conflict where those types of mods call a scripted event when hit by a shout, but it assumes the Player did it, and thus freaks out when the "PlayerRef" function target returns false, yet whatever condition for "Shout" returns true.
I'm not familiar with ASIS, though I have seen it mentioned before. Does it affect Dragons?
I'm running DCO, but as I said, they usually end up as a pincushion before a Shout can touch them. Dragonrend works, but none of the followers has that.
Is it *any* follower or a specific one? If it's just one, I may be able to isolate the issue if I can recreate the scene in my game.
I have gotten the "Crashed T-pose Ghost bug" on the Xbox360, however, with everything (giants, spiders, wolves, people, dragons, slaughterfish), so it could be that rare vanilla issue firing by coincidence. Unless it's every time. If that's the case, then there's definitely a conflict of some sort. I may have to find a Condition that assigns blame to the Player, if it exists, or there may be a load order issue between IHAH and the given Dragon mod.
I've been play-testing the mod for several months, though I do admit the most recent refinements (where followers don't go hostile on each other) were only tested in a confined space for about 3 days while I tweaked the Conditions on their Shouts. Those Conditions are fairly simple:
1. Subject: GetInFaction: CurrentFollowerFaction = 0 AND
2. Subject: IsInCombat 1 = 1
so basically it's saying that the Magic Effect (i.e. Shout damage) will only occur to those who are not in the Current Follower Faction AND who are engaged in combat. Both Conditions must be met, and certainly Dragons do meet them, but I can't see where those would send a Dragon into Crashed T-pose Ghost by themselves.
Do you also get moonwalking dead? While doing test runs and filming the video, at one point I had 5 of them.
While we're on the subject, one bug you will definitely get - and I apologize for neglecting to mention this in the description - is that if someone does a kill move (lifting up with both swords, or otherwise any move where they "warp" into position) and the victim is hit with a Shout before the paired animation ends, the victim becomes immortal until the person who was doing the kill move actually kills them. Not gamebreaking, but it straddles the line between annoying and hilarious. Good way to level up one-handed, though.
And while the latest tweaks have almost fully removed the possibility, if you get hit with Iona's Ice Form when you're in a Kill Cam, your camera will be crippled beyond hope unless you reload a save. I've tried every camera-related console command to get out of it, but to no avail. Like I said, you shouldn't see that bug, but don't turn your back on Iona in a fight, just in case.
ASIS - http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/18436/?
im using it as a spell, perk and spawn increaser, no combat AI. as for dragon combat related mods im using (in the same plugin order) Amazing Follower Tweaks, NPC Knockout Overhaul, Deadly Dragons, The Real Way To Shout, violens, Dragon Combat Overhual dragonborn, More Brains, IHAH, and Duel Combat Realism. i did use mod organizer and LOOT but i sort of dont like it and ended up tweaking the load order a bit.
AFT - more followers, give them 'none' under combat styles so they shout and load before IHAH.
NPCKO - instead of taking a knee, they 'passout' like they did in oblivion. conflicts with DCO (SCONUtil.psx), author did say to use his over DCO
DD - just more dragons
TRWTS - stronger vanilla shouts
violens - killcam mod, i just disabled all killcams. once i accidentally decaped all of those 'cure werewolf with witches head' things
DCO - smarter dragons
MB - more combat active AI
DCR - smarter AI
the ghosting dragon happens around a third of the time IMO. it usually happens when they land with a few seconds in delay if theyre hit with shouts (excluding dragonrend). i was completely bugged (battle for markath (stormcloak attack), traded markath for riften (season unending), quest not updating itself -.-) when i killed alduin so i had to delete the save, in a bit i might be able to battle alduin again and watch what happens. its probably the only battle where offensive shouts are used against dragons by NPCs and not only by your mod.
on a side note regarding followers
they do seem to spam worse than draugrs, they use shouts as often as magic against unreachable targets with a few seconds in delay. i did use AFT to teach them spells but yeah, your mod cant see them. not a big problem IMO, ill give them some bows and arrows next time.
they do sometimes fight amongst themselves, but a simple AFT - power key - summon resets them.
EDIT
they do use magic, i just forgot i didnt teach them magic on an older save
the ghosting bugs not only for dragons, but for other things that arent suppose to ragdoll around, like dragon priests. but unlike dragons they still have their box but only take damage from shouts as well
Or you can console their shoutrecoverymult to a custom setting. The Windcaller Amulet sets it to 100. The Talos amulet sets it to 20. However, that much consoling has typically caused me problems.
Ahhh, I think I see the problem regarding the crashed dragons. Apparently there's something about Iona's Ice Form that causes it. I consoled 2 Revered and 2 Elder Dragons, and as soon as the Revered was hit with Ice Form, he caked up like a normal enemy, then immediately went into the sideways t-pose and could only be hurt by Shouts or really strong magic like Thunderbolt or Incinerate. Didn't happen with the Elders, though.
I added another Condition to the magic effect that says not to affect Dragons, tested it again, and it appears to have fixed the problem. Updated version has been uploaded.
So far, Rayya's Cyclone Shout is fixed, which means her Tornado From Behind won't send anyone sailing, thus resulting in in-fighting.
Iona's Ice Form Shout needs tweaking - she's not freezing her teammates with a late hit, but there's an issue where her 1st-Word "burp" after combat ends will hit someone and aggro them. They're not being Popsicled, but it's enough for a "why you.." and the fights break out.
Same with Jordis' Fire Breath Shout. It's just the 1st-Word "burp" when they're putting their weapon away, though.
The only two still giving me real trouble are Jenassa's Marked For Death and, of course, Lydia's Unrelenting Force. These two are proving overly complicated.
I'm using Conditions on the Magic Effects and the Spells (since Shouts are Spells) to specify what criteria a victim/target must meet. With Rayya it's simple - not in CurrentFollowerFaction and InCombat. Boom. No trouble. With everyone else, it's not enough. I'm at the point now where I'm about to start populating the Conditions stack with "Isn't Lydia, Isn't Jordis, Isn't Mjoll, ...."
I'm really trying to avoid a huge Conditional stack though, but it's probably better than yet another poorly-written Script.
I'm tweaking and testing a lot, and recording videos so folks can see it in action once it's working properly. When it works, it's epic. When it fails, it's an epic fail.
This is not something that every Town and Tower Guard can achieve, as can be seen clearly.
It's also not too much of a stretch to imagine that those who went into Adventuring at a young age had a mentor who helped develop their innate abilities, and perhaps recognized a greater potential, and persuaded them to make the pilgrimage to High Hrothgar.
Then you have those who may have come from a distinctly troubled childhood or otherwise had "issues" that would have led them down the path of being a Bandit or Marauder, but were instead sent or taken to the Greybeards by a caring individual, and there they were taught meditative techniques and "scream therapy", for lack of a better term, which led to them developing the ability to Shout.
Here in the "real world", there are documented cases of people exhibiting abilities beyond their normal range, and even those classified as "super-human", given the right set of circumstances - a woman pushes a 1-ton vehicle off her child, etc.
In the case of the Sentient-AI Psycho known as Lydia, there's really no telling with her. Troubled childhood or kicked out of Oblivion for being "too scary", either one is possible.
For Jordis, it's not unreasonable to assume she's the daughter of a Legate or other high-ranking military officer, and thus was schooled in combat at a young age by her father. That would lead to a disciplined mindset that would facilitate her being able to learn at least one Shout in just a few years. This could also apply to Rayya, given the harsh conditions of the Alik'r desert and naturally combative culture of Redguards.
Iona is hard to read. She has the bearing of a Military Brat, with the determined, impassive gaze of a natural-born serial killer.
That's the kind of mind that would lend itself well to dedicated study, especially if it meant coming away with something like a Shout.
For Jenassa, Dark Elves are long-lived similar to High Elves, so she would certainly have the time and not show the years as visibly as a Nord or Imperial or Breton.
Mjoll. Well, she's got the Gift Of Gab, and she's no Spring Chicken. Whose to say she wasn't Shouting her way through Mzinchaleft when her backside was handed to her by a Centurion? She's certainly got the years to show for it.
Ulfric isn't exactly the epitome of Norditude - he's a Jarl's son only by luck of birth, and was captured by the Thalmor and indoctrinated into their service as an asset, which is indicative of a weak mind. His leadership is built upon his birthright and the sheeple who have a deep-seeded disdain for non-Nords. For him to take 10 years to learn one Shout would not be all that impressive when compared to someone who has a higher aptitude for it.
I mean, who are the Draugr Deathlords that they should all have the ability to Shout? They had to have learned it in life, as it can't have been bestowed to them by the Dragon Priests in undeath. They would have to have been talented/gifted warriors in life to receive training from the Priests (if not Paarthurnax) for the defence of the temples.
They can't have had Dragon Blood.
Then again, I don't recall any of the vanilla Dragon Priests being able to Shout. Typically they bust out an Elemental Cloak and a Staff of Elemental Pwnery, so perhaps even they were not worthy of training with their Dragon Masters. This adds further credence to the notion that the Dragons chose exceptional warriors to teach the Voice to long before Paarthurnax had his Divine Intervention Moment.
Since the Lore in this regard is open-ended, it's wide open for interpretation, and this is how I interpret it for the purposes of the mod.
Everyone is free and welcome to interpret it any way they choose.
Just checking. Paranoia and all that lol
Lemme know if anyone encounters a problem directly from these files. Can't promise a fix, but I'll certainly try.
Try it with UFO, taking all of them out for a stroll at once. It's hilarious.
I'd post screenshots and vids, but my people are all wearing skimpy armors, and I didn't wanna get censored by the mods.