I looked at all the standing stone mods to find the best one; it's this one. At least for me. I don't understand people who want to make the standing stones so complicated or risky that you have to go out of your way to take advantage of them, like build around them. And I've never understood why the devs, and many mod creators, make some stones a single greater power. Like, okay, if I even remember I have it, and if I haven't used it lately, I can do ONE thing for this entire dungeon. How tantalizing. I totally would rather unlock one expert chest than have 25% magic resistance at all times, sure. But this mod is good; I'm always debating which stone I want at a given time, there's alot of good choices. Still feel that some of them come up short, like the serpent stone still isn't that great even if it didn't have that frost resistance penalty, but at least there are always numerous good options for basically every build, and not just the Lord Stone all the time.
is the magica regen like a full chancel or just a reduction of 100% (assuming the first just straigth up makes it impossibel and the other being abelo to be balanced out by other regeneration sorces like another stone or enchentment()
I really like what you've done here over all, the benefits you've chosen make sense for each of them and look useful. But I do feel that it's odd to have downsides to three of them (serpent, atronach, and apprentice) but not all of them. I'm definitely not picking one with a downside when there are others that don't have one, which seems like it kind of goes against your stated purpose, not exactly the same as choosing the most powerful, but clearly making those three less attractive no matter what your build is. I'd prefer a version that either had no downsides to any, or a downside to each to make it seem more even.
I was also hoping for a great benefit and a small downside kind of thing, but I would assume those three have downsides because their benefits are esteemed as quite powerful by the mod creator, so they were given downsides to balance them.
I think most people, when they're looking to actually change the Standing Stones and without using a God Mode mod, look to give the stones a downside so their characters need to make a choice on using them. Also for roleplaying purposes a stone that magically gives you invincibility feels very un-immersive.
Some of the stone changes listed on the description are all benefit, no downside, meaning they still carry the "which stone is the most powerful" feel that you were hoping to avoid by making this mod. Without copying Skyrim Redone's Standing Stone Module, this is my opinion on how the stones should feel.
1. Apprentice Stone - Spells cost less, but are less powerful. The cost reduction is bigger than the magnitude reduction. Most spell overhauls nowadays increase spell magnitude and or duration, depending on spell, rather than lower costs.
2. Atronach Stone - Should be unchanged from Vanilla; the thing carried a very unique feel that hasn't been replicated so far by any mod to Standing Stones (including this one).
3. Lady Stone - Enemies regard you with less hostility, allowing the player to get closer while not sneaking without tripping their combat AI. Merchants regard you as a delicate and naive person, so they charge higher prices.
4. Lord Stone - Beast followers have more health and deal more damage. No downside. Intended to encourage some players to bring along a dog or armored troll companion.
5. Lover Stone - Physical damage taken is increased, Physical and Magic damage dealt is also increased.
6. Mage Stone - Spells are more powerful when above 50% Magicka, spells are somewhat weaker when below 50% Magicka.
7. Ritual Stone - Increases summon time, reduces spell magnitude of other schools. Really could not come up with a simple and effective effect, so the idea is directly copied from SkyRe.
8. Serpent Stone - Healing Spell magnitude is increased and the magnitude of Heal-Other type spells is doubled. Poisons deal more damage to you.
9. Shadow Stone - Enemies take longer to notice you, and return to non-combat AI much faster. Your sneak attacks are vastly weakened.
10. Steed Stone - Increases Stamina and Carry Weight, but lowers Magicka and Health.
11. Thief Stone - Flanking attack strength is increased, frontal attacks are weakened.
12. Tower Stone - A portion of incoming damage is reflected back to the attacker based on what he uses (archers/warriors take physical damage, mages take magic damage). Your attacks and blocks cost more stamina to use.
13. Warrior Stone - Power Attacks are stronger, but player makes a lot of noise, alerting nearby enemies from a distance. Causes resting Dragons to immediately begin combat; no sneaking up on poor dragons with 1000 damage bows.
Max - while I appreciate the feedback I don't agree with your assessment of the mod.
Each stone provides something different than the other 12 that cannot be directly compared; this uniqueness among the stones is the focus of the mod. Naturally, some stones will be significantly more useful than others in situational vacuums, but that's the point - every stone should outperform the others given it's put in a position to shine. While some might provide benefits useful in every situation (The three Guardian Stones' design had this in mind), the benefits are generally mild and are the exception, not the norm.
I don't think that any stone is head and shoulders above the others in my current implementation; if you want to explain further why you think there's a skewed power curve with the options I'll be more than happy to discuss that with you.
From your feedback, you want a mod that gives you double edged swords for each stone. While SkyRe embraces this design philosophy, my mod does not and I don't think you'll be happy with my mod if that's what you're looking for.
I only have one small problem with an otherwise nicely done mod. Would it be at all possible to remove the Apprentice Stone random spell damage from potions? I can grudgingly accept a chance to proc on Restoration spells, but I see no reason why potions should cause a "wild surge" like casting a spell might.
If it's a CK limitation, believe me I fully understand. But if it is something that can be fixed, would you at least consider it? Thanks. :)
Absolutely - the stone's effects were not intended to trigger on potions. I'll see if I can take a look at it this week and I might be able to refine the logic/script to exclude them.
So just a follow up on this - looks like I was able to find a scripting solution for the issue that prevents potions and elixirs from damaging the player with the Apprentice Stone. I'll roll this fix out with the next update.
I have a question. When you made this mod, did you make it compatible with the aetherial crown? The crown uses these stones and if your mod edits the stones the aetherial crown might not work. I don't plan on trying this mod until I find out.
I took a quick look into this for you and for the most part you would be able to use this mod without issues. The Ritual, Serpent, and Shadow Stones would not be stored fully (only their active effects would persist) due to the way I implemented the new abilities, but the other stones should work without any issues.
I'm going to see what I can do to put out either a compatibility patch for those with Dawnguard or an update for the mod so that the crown is able to fully work with all of the stones. I need to take some time to see which solution is a better one.
Hey I would like to point out that the Warrior Stone is doing about 15X Power Attack damage and not 15%. I have some other AI creature mods installed that give them a lot more defensive powers (High Level Enemies, Combat Evolved, High Level Enemies, Ultimate Dragons, Skyrim Immersive Creatures) It would usually take 3-6 hits on new strong creatures, now with the Warrior Stone active it's one shot kills. Please Look into it, thanks in advance.
Thanks for the catch! The decimal for this was moved over one, so this was doing 11.5 instead of 1.15 times the amount of damage as a result of some last minute number adjustments. Uploading version 2.13 to remedy this.
I like the changes this mod makes and I will be using it for my next playthrough, although if you made an optional tweaked version to be more integrated with Skyrim Redone, that would be great. Particularly the Lord Stone. +50 armor is great, but when even Leather Armor gives you 60+ armor it's not as appealing. Maybe it's fine though, I haven't tried that stone yet.
I think this is mod is closest to the best standing stones mod currently available.Thanks, hope you continue working on it.
So I tried to tweak this mod for my own use. Not much, I just wanted to add some minimal maluses that wouldnt deter anyone from using any of the stones, but just enough to force a slight change in playstyle for stategy and immersion and replay value. I beefed a few up only slightly and again just enough to make them actually change gameplay to support the power. I think they are extremely balanced and a little more fun with the tweaks.After working on it for some time I gave up. I cant get them all to work. Posting here in case there is any interest. I understand if not. Just hoping the effort was not totally wasted.May try again after I learn more about the CK.
APPRENTICE (use vitality to power magicka and mages should be a little weaker) --------------- 100 Magicka 75% Magicka Regeneration -25% stamina regen rate
ATRONACH (Net extra damage after absorbtion only 23%. I think before it was almost no net damage change) -------- 33% Spell Absorption -100% Magic Resistance +10 Destruction Magic Skill
LADY ------- Fortify Illusion+15, Alteraion+15, WaterBreathing -33% Frost Resistance
LORD (gets greater attention from enemies) ---------------- -20% Shout Coooldown Speechcraft Skill +10 Take extra 15% damage from attacks
LOVER (really like your base spell here) -------- Lover’s Embrace (restores 500 health when health reaches 15% once a day) Restoration Skill increase +15 -15% Damage on all attacks
MAGE(no change to the base stones, they are all perfect imho) ------- 15% Increase in Magic Skill Rate 50 Magicka
RITUAL(little more toward being a necromancer) --------- Mass Raise Dead (unchanged from Vanilla; raises nearby dead once a day) 33% Reduced Cost - Conjuration School +10 Conjuration Skill -10 Restoration Skill -50 Health
SERPENT (like doing a little damage and using this spell then running away until the attacker falls over from poison....) ----------- Serpent’s Bite (unchanged from Vanilla; paralysis and 6 damage/sec for 20 seconds once a day) 33% Sneak Attack Damage Bonus -15 Speechcraft (forked tongue)
SHADOW ---------- Invisibility (60 seconds of invisibility once a day) 25% Sneak Bonus -33% Fire Resistance
STEED( feeling of actually carrying more stuff) --------- +100 Carrying Capacity Weightless Armor -15% Movement Speed
THIEF ------- 15% Increase in Stealth Skill Rate 50 Stamina
TOWER --------- Resist 20% physical damage -33% resistance to shock damage (i.e. lighting to a tower)
WARRIOR ------------ 15% Increase in Combat Skill Rate 50 Health
As for some of the changes you're trying to make, the way in which you need to layer the different effects is often a bit cumbersome, which is why you might not be seeing the results you're looking for even though you might be on the right track. In some cases trying to apply certain traits can't be done without some very fancy mod work or scripting, which can end up being a frustrating experience as a modder. If you're looking just to tweak the mod for your own purposes I wouldn't mind continuing a dialogue via private message to help you troubleshoot a bit.
I took a bit of a break from modding but I'm looking to continue my work again - I have a minor update for this mod in the works and should be coming out with it shortly - mostly tweaking values after some testing to ensure the stones weren't too weak/too powerful.
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Some of the stone changes listed on the description are all benefit, no downside, meaning they still carry the "which stone is the most powerful" feel that you were hoping to avoid by making this mod. Without copying Skyrim Redone's Standing Stone Module, this is my opinion on how the stones should feel.
1. Apprentice Stone - Spells cost less, but are less powerful. The cost reduction is bigger than the magnitude reduction. Most spell overhauls nowadays increase spell magnitude and or duration, depending on spell, rather than lower costs.
2. Atronach Stone - Should be unchanged from Vanilla; the thing carried a very unique feel that hasn't been replicated so far by any mod to Standing Stones (including this one).
3. Lady Stone - Enemies regard you with less hostility, allowing the player to get closer while not sneaking without tripping their combat AI. Merchants regard you as a delicate and naive person, so they charge higher prices.
4. Lord Stone - Beast followers have more health and deal more damage. No downside. Intended to encourage some players to bring along a dog or armored troll companion.
5. Lover Stone - Physical damage taken is increased, Physical and Magic damage dealt is also increased.
6. Mage Stone - Spells are more powerful when above 50% Magicka, spells are somewhat weaker when below 50% Magicka.
7. Ritual Stone - Increases summon time, reduces spell magnitude of other schools. Really could not come up with a simple and effective effect, so the idea is directly copied from SkyRe.
8. Serpent Stone - Healing Spell magnitude is increased and the magnitude of Heal-Other type spells is doubled. Poisons deal more damage to you.
9. Shadow Stone - Enemies take longer to notice you, and return to non-combat AI much faster. Your sneak attacks are vastly weakened.
10. Steed Stone - Increases Stamina and Carry Weight, but lowers Magicka and Health.
11. Thief Stone - Flanking attack strength is increased, frontal attacks are weakened.
12. Tower Stone - A portion of incoming damage is reflected back to the attacker based on what he uses (archers/warriors take physical damage, mages take magic damage). Your attacks and blocks cost more stamina to use.
13. Warrior Stone - Power Attacks are stronger, but player makes a lot of noise, alerting nearby enemies from a distance. Causes resting Dragons to immediately begin combat; no sneaking up on poor dragons with 1000 damage bows.
Each stone provides something different than the other 12 that cannot be directly compared; this uniqueness among the stones is the focus of the mod. Naturally, some stones will be significantly more useful than others in situational vacuums, but that's the point - every stone should outperform the others given it's put in a position to shine. While some might provide benefits useful in every situation (The three Guardian Stones' design had this in mind), the benefits are generally mild and are the exception, not the norm.
I don't think that any stone is head and shoulders above the others in my current implementation; if you want to explain further why you think there's a skewed power curve with the options I'll be more than happy to discuss that with you.
From your feedback, you want a mod that gives you double edged swords for each stone. While SkyRe embraces this design philosophy, my mod does not and I don't think you'll be happy with my mod if that's what you're looking for.
If it's a CK limitation, believe me I fully understand. But if it is something that can be fixed, would you at least consider it? Thanks. :)
Thanks for pointing this out!
I'm going to see what I can do to put out either a compatibility patch for those with Dawnguard or an update for the mod so that the crown is able to fully work with all of the stones. I need to take some time to see which solution is a better one.
So I tried to tweak this mod for my own use. Not much, I just wanted to add some minimal maluses that wouldnt deter anyone from using any of the stones, but just enough to force a slight change in playstyle for stategy and immersion and replay value. I beefed a few up only slightly and again just enough to make them actually change gameplay to support the power. I think they are extremely balanced and a little more fun with the tweaks.After working on it for some time I gave up. I cant get them all to work. Posting here in case there is any interest. I understand if not. Just hoping the effort was not totally wasted.May try again after I learn more about the CK.
APPRENTICE (use vitality to power magicka and mages should be a little weaker)
---------------
100 Magicka
75% Magicka Regeneration
-25% stamina regen rate
ATRONACH (Net extra damage after absorbtion only 23%. I think before it was almost no net damage change)
--------
33% Spell Absorption
-100% Magic Resistance
+10 Destruction Magic Skill
LADY
-------
Fortify Illusion+15, Alteraion+15, WaterBreathing
-33% Frost Resistance
LORD (gets greater attention from enemies)
----------------
-20% Shout Coooldown
Speechcraft Skill +10
Take extra 15% damage from attacks
LOVER (really like your base spell here)
--------
Lover’s Embrace (restores 500 health when health reaches 15% once a day)
Restoration Skill increase +15
-15% Damage on all attacks
MAGE(no change to the base stones, they are all perfect imho)
-------
15% Increase in Magic Skill Rate
50 Magicka
RITUAL(little more toward being a necromancer)
---------
Mass Raise Dead (unchanged from Vanilla; raises nearby dead once a day)
33% Reduced Cost - Conjuration School
+10 Conjuration Skill
-10 Restoration Skill
-50 Health
SERPENT (like doing a little damage and using this spell then running away until the attacker falls over from poison....)
-----------
Serpent’s Bite (unchanged from Vanilla; paralysis and 6 damage/sec for 20 seconds once a day)
33% Sneak Attack Damage Bonus
-15 Speechcraft (forked tongue)
SHADOW
----------
Invisibility (60 seconds of invisibility once a day)
25% Sneak Bonus
-33% Fire Resistance
STEED( feeling of actually carrying more stuff)
---------
+100 Carrying Capacity
Weightless Armor
-15% Movement Speed
THIEF
-------
15% Increase in Stealth Skill Rate
50 Stamina
TOWER
---------
Resist 20% physical damage
-33% resistance to shock damage (i.e. lighting to a tower)
WARRIOR
------------
15% Increase in Combat Skill Rate
50 Health
I'm glad you like the mod!
As for some of the changes you're trying to make, the way in which you need to layer the different effects is often a bit cumbersome, which is why you might not be seeing the results you're looking for even though you might be on the right track. In some cases trying to apply certain traits can't be done without some very fancy mod work or scripting, which can end up being a frustrating experience as a modder. If you're looking just to tweak the mod for your own purposes I wouldn't mind continuing a dialogue via private message to help you troubleshoot a bit.
I took a bit of a break from modding but I'm looking to continue my work again - I have a minor update for this mod in the works and should be coming out with it shortly - mostly tweaking values after some testing to ensure the stones weren't too weak/too powerful.