Thank you for your support and your dedication for the mod! I am also thankful for the bug reports. It means a lot to me, that you are enjoying your time with the mod. With the new update (v.N.2.0) I would like to give some "life" to two settlements: Lainalten and Vernim Woods. Vernim Woods is overrun by bandits and the residents require your help to clear it. They want to rebuild their beloved homes. Lainalten was recently attacked by the dragon resurrected nearby by Alduin. Save them!
I have some future plans: - A version with SE support, and I hope that I can bring this mod to Xbox and PS4 too. - Build Port Dale once again. - Bring more life to the mod.
Lastly I would like to thank you for the patience shown towards me and the mod. I know I am very slow with the development.
To Mod Author: First this is NOT hate or bashing. This is addressing a very serious issue with the mod. If this got fixed the mod would be amazing.
For readers: This mod don't touch any NavMeshing outside causing NPC's to bug out, fall through ground or clip through walls. There’s a lot of Dirty edits that make the game unstable and cause a lot of crashes. Many cells were also just duped and has ended up causing some cells to no longer be linked proper.
For starts:
You cannot just dump builds into the world and expect them to work. There is something called NavMesh, a.k.a navigational meshing that is applied over the land. This mesh tells NPC's (including followers) where they can and can't walk. Every one of your settlements have had no NavMesh edits what so ever. This is making any NPC's in the area bug out badly with pathfinding issues, walking through walls, falling though floors and overall not knowing what to do.
http://i.imgur.com/5piYOXn.jpg
As seen. NPC's will not just be fine and use the areas without issue. They can't 'see' the objects around them, they reply on the NavMesh to tell them where buildings are, walkways, doors and the like, as well as markers to tell them where there sandbox AI can interact with. The NavMesh is the foundation for NPC's. 'Here is a stairway, here is a door, and here is a path around this building'.
Look at Winterhold http://i.imgur.com/56fikk2.jpg See all the holes in the mesh to account for trees, and buildings? See the clear path going up the walkway to the collage? See all the green triangles that mark doors into new cells? This is what NPC's go by to know where objects are, how to get to point A to point B, how to tell there is a door to enter and exit a cell. How to reach markers to interact with objects. http://i.imgur.com/soFj4gi.png Even the ruins have holes in the mesh so NPC's don't think there's a clear path and end up walking into or through them.
Now for one of yours http://i.imgur.com/WI5kQ5v.jpg
Not a single bit of NavMesh was changed. NPC's have no idea where those walkways are, or how to get to any of the doors. This is making NPC's fall through the walkways, get stuck in the water and overall not know where to go. You can see the default mesh already accounts for the fallen trees and such in the area, but you never edited to account for your new stuff. NPC's are blind to everything you added.
So what happens is the NPC's see nothing, there pathfinding tells them to follow the NavMesh to get from point A to point B. They walk into something that blocks the path that the NavMesh don't account for and that they can’t see, thus they teleport to their next location, this means they could end up through the ground, or clipped inside a building as that is where the AI was telling them to go, or the AI gets confused causing them to stop in place.
The sad part is your INSIDES are NavMeshed, however there not done properly, you have many islands and such that 'trap' NPC's.. The mesh also fails to go over some furniture markers so NPC's can't get to them to interact.
I also highly advise to NEVER dup an existing cell. Triggers and what not that are linked do not play well with such and you can end up badly breaking doors and other scripted triggers, even quests due to such. Always start from scratch. There are many cells that have been duped from that are now badly broken thanks to this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JGpfOLiLic There is a very simple tutorial on proper NavMeshing. Your mesh should be one solid mesh through out and overlap the trigger marks on objects (the little balls that stick out when viewing markers)
http://i.imgur.com/SUEbwnR.jpg I mean look at that.. You have an island of mesh there instead of one solid path. NPC's have no idea how to get back there as there’s no pathing. You also have no meshing going up and down the stairs, so they are trapped on that floor and can't see a path down. http://i.imgur.com/OB9x0wt.png NavMesh needs to be ONE solid bit in order for NPC's to navigate it.
http://i.imgur.com/zY0asDl.png There’s the NavMesh inside one of the Skyrim farms. Note it is one solid NavMesh, note the mesh going up and down the stairs. Note the green mark that tells NPC's 'this is a door'.
Note without proper NavMeshing followers and the like also bug out with the same issues as NPC's. If you took a follower inside your building, they’d not see any path upstairs, and would just flip out and get confused. Then again you have no mark for the door, so they’d not be able to enter at all.
http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/topic/6839-ck-basics-lesson-2/ Go down to Part IV: NavMesh Pathing "Pathing tells NPCs where it is safe to stand and walk in any given cell it helps them process and define the parameters of the world they live in. There are established paths in exteriors and interiors. Some modders think that it's okay to leave pathing out, but that's just lazy modding."
http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/topic/6843-ck-basics-lesson-4/ Will tell you about lighting and NavMeshing the outside. Part II: Exterior NavMesh (and note deleting objects in the world is bad and will cause conflicts and gave crashes)
Also note: You CAN rename outside Wilderness Cells. You can't rename named cells.
As is this mod is a big time buggy mess, all because you ignored the NavMesh outside and didn't mesh the insides right. You also have deleted objects and dirty edits in other cells that can and will cause crashes if other mods edit those areas. Thus why I had to stop using this mod as the buggy NPC's falling through the ground and walking into walks was ehh, and then random crashes as I traveled due to dirty edits.
Clean the mod, remove the dirty edits, and fix the NavMesh.
Truthfully.. I would say scrap this and start fresh, remake the settlements and do proper NavMeshing for them. Don't make them so random (really homes facing water with no way to reach them?) and most of all, be mindful when navigating the world in the CK, one slight nudge on any object will cause a dirty edit, and lead to many issues. NAME your wilderness cells for easy finding, it's a good idea to use the same starting prefix for your naming for easy finding when cleaning so you know what to remove. Like I always start mine with aaTIBnameofplace so it’s at the top of the cell list, as well as easy to ID as an intended edited cell so cleaning I can remove any edited cells that don't have that naming.
Sorry if this sounded harsh, but this mod as is does cause some big time serious issues that can't go ignored as it makes the game very unstable and the bugged NPC's due to NavMesh look bad in general.
Wow... just wow... Not wow as in against you. Just wow as how a mod this high on endorsements and downloads when it is so bug ridden it makes skyrim unplayable!
Now I see why I had Broken quests Crashes to desktop Npcs falling through the world A building warp me to the wrong location A town eat one of my followers! I mean they walked through a bridge and got stuck so bad they flipped out and killed themselvs from fall damage!
I thought this was all just a conflict with some of the city and town overhauls I used so I stoped using them all. But it was all from this!
Those screens shots look bad. Now I get why I had random crashes just strolling through the woods!
I don't know much about skyrim modding, but I did mod for oblivion and the two seem nearly the same, the rules for one should apply to the other in stuff you don't ever do.
I agree, start over, trash this mess of a bug and learn proper modding.
@AuroraKitten, Taiine (and chaoruge at the TES Arena page) - not doubting what you say, but it has all the endorsements because many people don't get the issues you have raised. This was the first cities, town hamlets etc. expand mod I downloaded, followed by Hroldan, Nightgate... I never had any of the problems you described until I downloaded Legendary Cities about a year after. After that I still only have problems in Nimalten - with an unfinished quest and a third party naming mod. This mod came out in 2012 almost a full year before the others and definitely before the youtube video you pointed him to.
I don't use Legendary Cities or any cities mod, nor any npc mods.
I added this mod to give a little more life to the world and it was just crash after crash to what was a stable game.
Outside COT, Frostfall/Campfire, Real Storms, LAL, and iNeed, the rest are just texture mods.
As soon as I started this mod I was randomly CTDing in some parts of the woods, and the town near half moon had npc's falling through the ground, clipping through the walkways and my follower dieing from getting stuck.
I don't think it matters when the mod came out, it's been merged and edited long after that, and the author stated they were making a patch for it that hasn't been seen in over a year.
I doubt it takes a year to run the mod through ts5edit to clean it and go through and fix the nav meshing bugs along with the duplicate cells and the broken triggers and doors.
Sexyowl: The things that Taiine is reporting aren't simply a matter of opinion or things that just happen in his game or to a select few players. The problems he's listed are problems "under the hood" of the mod, so to speak. They're there for anyone to see in the CK and TES5Edit. And even if you don't open it up with an editor, the navmesh issues are blindingly obvious as the player explores the settlements. I mean, go to the iceberg port village or the Lake Ilinalta village and see all the NPCs stuck in the water or under the walkways. It's impossible to miss. If you've had no issues with it (which is, quite frankly, difficult to believe) that's great, but the problems in the design of the mod still exist regardless. They're not debatable.
The mod has some really interesting and cool ideas implemented into it, but it also has serious issues that need addressed.
It's not bugs. It's merely lack of navmesh. It won't hurt your game save. It may take you of you pot induced RPG mode but, that's about it. Cut the guy some slack you couldn't of even made a mess like this yourself You entitled brats
Hey guys! Thank you very much for the support and the helping. I started to rebuild this mod from zero, after I have learnt how to do it properly. I made it more compatible with other mods, but I stopped working on it a while ago because of real life problems, although it is nearly finished. When Special Edition came out I abandoned my projects because I didn't want to redone all work, and because I didn't like the remastered game. But as I later found out that people like old Skyrim better, and you still believe me, I had been inspired, and I want to finish this mod. If my time lets me, I try to release the new version in the first half of January. Thank you very much for the support!
I'm one that like original Skyrim a lot better than the Special Edition, because mods are what make this game still interesting. The lack of support for many mods, in special SKSE, made me lose interest in Special Edition rather quickly. Perhaps in the future, maybe in 1 or 2 years +, Special Edition might get my interest again.
This mod is amazing and it adds a lot of much needed clutter to various areas in skyrim. I'm worried about removing this mod and making my game feel empty again. 10/10
Hi ruled, I don't know if you read these comments any more but I hope you do :) Well I really like this mod and had it for quite a while now. Recently uninstalled it because I feared it might interfere with a different mod, but now I've reinstalled it. I am trying to find a small place where a King statue was placed and I can't remember the location. Could you (or anyone who knows this place) please point me in the right direction?
Edit: Found it today. It's either called Ruined Troll and Wispmother Well or Nimalten Old Border, depending on which mod put it there ( they overlap)
Greetings, I am glad you could found it. Sorry for the late reply... In my mod, it was supposed to be Nimalten in a ruined state :) Anyway, I am glad you like my mod!
How do I ensure that I've downloaded the compatible LITE version of the mod that I can utilize alongside TES Arena Legendary Cities? I use Vortex Mod Manager
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https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/35032/?tab=description&BH=0
I might bring the other heavier versions too if there is any demand for them.
Hope you enjoy this in SE!
Have a nice day!
Thank you for your support and your dedication for the mod! I am also thankful for the bug reports. It means a lot to me, that you are enjoying your time with the mod.
With the new update (v.N.2.0) I would like to give some "life" to two settlements: Lainalten and Vernim Woods.
Vernim Woods is overrun by bandits and the residents require your help to clear it. They want to rebuild their beloved homes.
Lainalten was recently attacked by the dragon resurrected nearby by Alduin. Save them!
I have some future plans:
- A version with SE support, and I hope that I can bring this mod to Xbox and PS4 too.
- Build Port Dale once again.
- Bring more life to the mod.
Lastly I would like to thank you for the patience shown towards me and the mod. I know I am very slow with the development.
Thank you very much and have a nice day!
For readers:
This mod don't touch any NavMeshing outside causing NPC's to bug out, fall through ground or clip through walls. There’s a lot of Dirty edits that make the game unstable and cause a lot of crashes. Many cells were also just duped and has ended up causing some cells to no longer be linked proper.
For starts:
You cannot just dump builds into the world and expect them to work. There is something called NavMesh, a.k.a navigational meshing that is applied over the land. This mesh tells NPC's (including followers) where they can and can't walk. Every one of your settlements have had no NavMesh edits what so ever. This is making any NPC's in the area bug out badly with pathfinding issues, walking through walls, falling though floors and overall not knowing what to do.
http://i.imgur.com/5piYOXn.jpg
As seen. NPC's will not just be fine and use the areas without issue. They can't 'see' the objects around them, they reply on the NavMesh to tell them where buildings are, walkways, doors and the like, as well as markers to tell them where there sandbox AI can interact with. The NavMesh is the foundation for NPC's. 'Here is a stairway, here is a door, and here is a path around this building'.
Look at Winterhold
http://i.imgur.com/56fikk2.jpg
See all the holes in the mesh to account for trees, and buildings? See the clear path going up the walkway to the collage? See all the green triangles that mark doors into new cells? This is what NPC's go by to know where objects are, how to get to point A to point B, how to tell there is a door to enter and exit a cell. How to reach markers to interact with objects.
http://i.imgur.com/soFj4gi.png
Even the ruins have holes in the mesh so NPC's don't think there's a clear path and end up walking into or through them.
Now for one of yours
http://i.imgur.com/WI5kQ5v.jpg
Not a single bit of NavMesh was changed. NPC's have no idea where those walkways are, or how to get to any of the doors. This is making NPC's fall through the walkways, get stuck in the water and overall not know where to go. You can see the default mesh already accounts for the fallen trees and such in the area, but you never edited to account for your new stuff. NPC's are blind to everything you added.
So what happens is the NPC's see nothing, there pathfinding tells them to follow the NavMesh to get from point A to point B. They walk into something that blocks the path that the NavMesh don't account for and that they can’t see, thus they teleport to their next location, this means they could end up through the ground, or clipped inside a building as that is where the AI was telling them to go, or the AI gets confused causing them to stop in place.
The sad part is your INSIDES are NavMeshed, however there not done properly, you have many islands and such that 'trap' NPC's.. The mesh also fails to go over some furniture markers so NPC's can't get to them to interact.
I also highly advise to NEVER dup an existing cell. Triggers and what not that are linked do not play well with such and you can end up badly breaking doors and other scripted triggers, even quests due to such. Always start from scratch. There are many cells that have been duped from that are now badly broken thanks to this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JGpfOLiLic
There is a very simple tutorial on proper NavMeshing. Your mesh should be one solid mesh through out and overlap the trigger marks on objects (the little balls that stick out when viewing markers)
http://i.imgur.com/SUEbwnR.jpg
I mean look at that.. You have an island of mesh there instead of one solid path. NPC's have no idea how to get back there as there’s no pathing. You also have no meshing going up and down the stairs, so they are trapped on that floor and can't see a path down.
http://i.imgur.com/OB9x0wt.png
NavMesh needs to be ONE solid bit in order for NPC's to navigate it.
http://i.imgur.com/zY0asDl.png
There’s the NavMesh inside one of the Skyrim farms. Note it is one solid NavMesh, note the mesh going up and down the stairs. Note the green mark that tells NPC's 'this is a door'.
Note without proper NavMeshing followers and the like also bug out with the same issues as NPC's. If you took a follower inside your building, they’d not see any path upstairs, and would just flip out and get confused. Then again you have no mark for the door, so they’d not be able to enter at all.
http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/topic/6839-ck-basics-lesson-2/
Go down to Part IV: NavMesh Pathing
"Pathing tells NPCs where it is safe to stand and walk in any given cell it helps them process and define the parameters of the world they live in. There are established paths in exteriors and interiors. Some modders think that it's okay to leave pathing out, but that's just lazy modding."
http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/topic/6843-ck-basics-lesson-4/
Will tell you about lighting and NavMeshing the outside. Part II: Exterior NavMesh (and note deleting objects in the world is bad and will cause conflicts and gave crashes)
Also note: You CAN rename outside Wilderness Cells. You can't rename named cells.
As is this mod is a big time buggy mess, all because you ignored the NavMesh outside and didn't mesh the insides right. You also have deleted objects and dirty edits in other cells that can and will cause crashes if other mods edit those areas. Thus why I had to stop using this mod as the buggy NPC's falling through the ground and walking into walks was ehh, and then random crashes as I traveled due to dirty edits.
Clean the mod, remove the dirty edits, and fix the NavMesh.
Truthfully.. I would say scrap this and start fresh, remake the settlements and do proper NavMeshing for them. Don't make them so random (really homes facing water with no way to reach them?) and most of all, be mindful when navigating the world in the CK, one slight nudge on any object will cause a dirty edit, and lead to many issues. NAME your wilderness cells for easy finding, it's a good idea to use the same starting prefix for your naming for easy finding when cleaning so you know what to remove. Like I always start mine with aaTIBnameofplace so it’s at the top of the cell list, as well as easy to ID as an intended edited cell so cleaning I can remove any edited cells that don't have that naming.
Sorry if this sounded harsh, but this mod as is does cause some big time serious issues that can't go ignored as it makes the game very unstable and the bugged NPC's due to NavMesh look bad in general.
Now I see why I had
Broken quests
Crashes to desktop
Npcs falling through the world
A building warp me to the wrong location
A town eat one of my followers! I mean they walked through a bridge and got stuck so bad they flipped out and killed themselvs from fall damage!
I thought this was all just a conflict with some of the city and town overhauls I used so I stoped using them all. But it was all from this!
Those screens shots look bad. Now I get why I had random crashes just strolling through the woods!
I don't know much about skyrim modding, but I did mod for oblivion and the two seem nearly the same, the rules for one should apply to the other in stuff you don't ever do.
I agree, start over, trash this mess of a bug and learn proper modding.
I added this mod to give a little more life to the world and it was just crash after crash to what was a stable game.
Outside COT, Frostfall/Campfire, Real Storms, LAL, and iNeed, the rest are just texture mods.
As soon as I started this mod I was randomly CTDing in some parts of the woods, and the town near half moon had npc's falling through the ground, clipping through the walkways and my follower dieing from getting stuck.
I don't think it matters when the mod came out, it's been merged and edited long after that, and the author stated they were making a patch for it that hasn't been seen in over a year.
I doubt it takes a year to run the mod through ts5edit to clean it and go through and fix the nav meshing bugs along with the duplicate cells and the broken triggers and doors.
The mod has some really interesting and cool ideas implemented into it, but it also has serious issues that need addressed.
I started to rebuild this mod from zero, after I have learnt how to do it properly. I made it more compatible with other mods, but I stopped working on it a while ago because of real life problems, although it is nearly finished. When Special Edition came out I abandoned my projects because I didn't want to redone all work, and because I didn't like the remastered game.
But as I later found out that people like old Skyrim better, and you still believe me, I had been inspired, and I want to finish this mod. If my time lets me, I try to release the new version in the first half of January.
Thank you very much for the support!
I'm worried about removing this mod and making my game feel empty again.
10/10
I really appreciate your comment!
Cheers!
Edit: Found it today. It's either called Ruined Troll and Wispmother Well or Nimalten Old Border, depending on which mod put it there ( they overlap)
I am glad you could found it. Sorry for the late reply... In my mod, it was supposed to be Nimalten in a ruined state :)
Anyway, I am glad you like my mod!
Enjoy playing it!