@nexusasd: I actually have to disagree with you on some of the points you bring up. You are comparing game physics to real world physics here (which is generally never good because it's darn near impossible to make the two match particularly with fictitious subject matter), so I think it appropriate to use real world examples in history to explain what I mean.
First, armor wont do much to stop an arrow. In fact arrows and longbows were specifically engineered to punch through armor. Even the really heavy duty plate was pretty much worthless in the face of an arrow launched from a longbow as they were capable of producing many times greater force than any human arm or arms could on their own. In fact, and you can verify this with any professor of medieval history or similar source, when the english longbow was introduced to the world was about the same time that knights wearing the heavy plate armors vanished from the battlefields. It wasn't the invention of the musket or ball and powder weapons, it was the english longbow and it was because such heavy cumbersome armors offered little to no protection and were suddenly more of a hinderance than a benefit.
On the flip side these plate armors WERE designed to stop things like swords, axes and yes warhammers from hurting the person wearing them and they did so very very well. They were extremely expensive to own though and only a very few ever wore them on the battlefields of real earth. If you want to test this yourself you can. Just take a slightly curved sheet of steel and beat it with a sledgehammer (these two things probably being the closest to the real items you'd find today). You'll make a few minor dents but you wont seriously deform the metal and that is with you swinging at a stationary target allowing you to take all the time you need to get the most force behind your swings. In a real fight your foe wouldn't be so nice and you'd never get that kind of a swing. You see, plate armor is designed to take all that force from those weapons and absorb and then distribute that force over the majority of a persons frame making the actual impact much much less than it was. You'd certainly feel the impact, and you might even get shoved a foot or two in whatever direction you were hit but you wouldn't be injured.
There's a reason people wore those armors when they were available to them. There's also a reason people stopped wearing them.
I know this is an ancient post, but I'm responding to it for the purpose of historic accuracy. Maybe in 2012 you hadn't seen the myths busted yet, but the truth is, longbow and even crossbow projectiles CANNOT penetrate plate or even scale armor. The tests have been done with historically accurate weapons and armor. The longbow was made obsolete by plate armor, which is why hammers and guns replaced it. Regarding Henry V's mythical 'longbow supremacy' battle against the French: the casualties were caused by drowning and men with hammers braining the fallen, not by the bowmen. People stopped wearing plate armor because it was uncomfortable, expensive, and men simply weren't trained or forced to wear it anymore. It was NOT because of bows LOL. Please get educated.
Just a quick question... The biggest comparison has been to a sneaky archer... but something tells me most people havent taken the time to actually play as an archer character.... I mean they seem overpowered as is to me once you get higher in the levels and especially add in perks... You deal damage from AFAR... so dealing the same damage as the other powerful weapons makes it op... Its unreasonable to use bows in close quarters...but if you dont have a weapon handy the bow still deals plenty of damage... so my question is...just how long have you played a bow wielding character? I noticed the comparison to bleak falls barrow... bows are already massive in power...plus they have range on their side. For the most part you will one hit most enemies, but the stronger ones naturally wont be one hit kills right off the bat...for any weapon. however mid-late game you WILL one hit kill strong enemies WITHOUT sneak...sneak just allows you to one hit kill the strongest of dragons in one or two shots...
Eh'. Maybe it;s because I don't wear the best armors until the very end of the game, (I cling to my lovely steel armor) but I typically get owned by archers and rip other people apart with bows and arrows.
I can see that realistically this mod makes perfect sense, because well, arrows fired from a bow are fucking dangerous. They're capable of penetrating through steel armors, causing internal wounds more insidious than external wounds.
But for little old Mage-warrior me, I get swiss-cheesed within seconds if I face more than two archers at once.
Maybe I'll download this for my archer playthrough though.
I would personally not download specifically for an archer play through, maybe an op play through though....I still think bows are way pwnage as is... but thats my opinion... (I just think anyone who downloads this because their own arrows such probably arent actually using a bow weilding character... (with at best 20 archery) and are on the hardest mod possible with enemy improvement mods and player weakening mods...)
actually they have stealth abilities, not so much designed to be stealthy...however they are already powerful enough... having them any stronger than they are is overkill even without stealth... You have to take into account bows are to be used at range...so you WILL hit enemies a few times more before they hit you...assuming they even make it to you...
If you want something that is DESIGNED to be stealth...daggers... and the X15 damage...A bow gets x3 damage with stealth. now its not like a MASSIVE difference because of arrows... long bow does 6 damage 6+8(arrow damage) x 3=42 iron dagger does 4 damage... 4x15=60
now I am no mathmatician...but I say the dagger deals a hell of alot more base damage than a bow in sneaking...
Iron warhammer as a base does 2x an imperial bow of 9 damage not including arrows...but you cant fire a bow without arros.... so iron warhammer of 18 versus a imperial bow and iron arrow of 17...already close... now for those of you not following, the imperial bow is like a grade about the long bow... now add in range and the imperial bow is already about double the warhammer or more...
that same math for the long bow still allows the long bow great competition with the warhammer...but when your looking at common weapons you can take your pick from all the long and imperial bows you want. more likely you will choose the imperial bow. and actually in between those is the huntingbow at 7 damage...woo at the major difference in damage now maybe you dont thing thats fair... lets upgrade the warhammer to a steal warhammer of 20...not a massive improvement. but still bows easily take the base damage. now you say damage per second? son the damage being dealth isn't "per second" Im not sure I even understand why they even bother calculating that in weapons, its not even a good scale nor can I figure out how its supposed to be accurate. because its not taking you 7 seconds to deal 7 damage.
Being an archer character I always wonder if my weapon isnt overpowered...I mean without sneaking I can fell 4 or more enemies before any melee characters ever get to me half the time....and dragons are all just screaming pushovers...I can fell most opponents on harder difficulties with an unupgraded imperial bow and iron arrows fairly easy... and thats without mods... Given that I am running around with an upgraded daedric bow with ebony arrows and 3 or so peices of equipment with +40% arrow damage..meaning I about kill every dragon in two hits...without sneaking...with sneaking theres no point in wasting an ebony arrow...
idk anyways gredd is somewhat right minus the bows specifically being sneaky... atducey....gredd wasn't being rude...
Very tempting....though as a primary Archer my Dovah's Armor doesn't tend to level up so well.... "> ....he would probably get one hit killed by another Archer at higher levels if they manage to hit him....Is a very tempting mod though, the lack of damage delivered by an Arrow when not in stealth has always really bugged me in Skyrim, so unrealistic the sad damage.....I use Poisons, but never enchanted weapons or armor....thinking very seriously about this Mod, dan it does look good....Thank you atducey.... ">
Honestly my bow/sneak playthrough was one of the easiest. Without the sneak component though I can see how it would go drastically the other way. In situations where I had to "go loud" I swapped out to poisoned arrows, paralysis can't be resisted by most entities so once again broken my way when they're on the floor taking arrows to the face.
Adding stagger or bleeding to bows by default would remedy some of that difficulty I think. Might be fun to do a bleeder playthrough, defending yourself until they eventually went down with a whimper instead of a wail.
Also I always thought it might be cool to do a slow time effect whenever blocking or "bow bashing" to give enough time to pop off a shot. That or a knockdown effect on bow bash to represent some judo skills.
Interesting mod idea, with an ingenious yet simple solution. I like it. Unfortunately, my current character is the aformentioned rogue, and the combination of sneak attack criticals, archery enchanted items and the marked for death shout makes short work of my foes.
As it stands, I'm getting one shotted by archers anyway (damn death Overlords stealing my ebony arrows) so I don't think this mod is for my build.
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First, armor wont do much to stop an arrow. In fact arrows and longbows were specifically engineered to punch through armor. Even the really heavy duty plate was pretty much worthless in the face of an arrow launched from a longbow as they were capable of producing many times greater force than any human arm or arms could on their own. In fact, and you can verify this with any professor of medieval history or similar source, when the english longbow was introduced to the world was about the same time that knights wearing the heavy plate armors vanished from the battlefields. It wasn't the invention of the musket or ball and powder weapons, it was the english longbow and it was because such heavy cumbersome armors offered little to no protection and were suddenly more of a hinderance than a benefit.
On the flip side these plate armors WERE designed to stop things like swords, axes and yes warhammers from hurting the person wearing them and they did so very very well. They were extremely expensive to own though and only a very few ever wore them on the battlefields of real earth. If you want to test this yourself you can. Just take a slightly curved sheet of steel and beat it with a sledgehammer (these two things probably being the closest to the real items you'd find today). You'll make a few minor dents but you wont seriously deform the metal and that is with you swinging at a stationary target allowing you to take all the time you need to get the most force behind your swings. In a real fight your foe wouldn't be so nice and you'd never get that kind of a swing. You see, plate armor is designed to take all that force from those weapons and absorb and then distribute that force over the majority of a persons frame making the actual impact much much less than it was. You'd certainly feel the impact, and you might even get shoved a foot or two in whatever direction you were hit but you wouldn't be injured.
There's a reason people wore those armors when they were available to them. There's also a reason people stopped wearing them.
The biggest comparison has been to a sneaky archer...
but something tells me most people havent taken the time to actually play as an archer character....
I mean they seem overpowered as is to me once you get higher in the levels and especially add in perks...
You deal damage from AFAR...
so dealing the same damage as the other powerful weapons makes it op...
Its unreasonable to use bows in close quarters...but if you dont have a weapon handy the bow still deals plenty of damage...
so my question is...just how long have you played a bow wielding character? I noticed the comparison to bleak falls barrow...
bows are already massive in power...plus they have range on their side. For the most part you will one hit most enemies, but the stronger ones naturally wont be one hit kills right off the bat...for any weapon. however mid-late game you WILL one hit kill strong enemies WITHOUT sneak...sneak just allows you to one hit kill the strongest of dragons in one or two shots...
I can see that realistically this mod makes perfect sense, because well, arrows fired from a bow are fucking dangerous. They're capable of penetrating through steel armors, causing internal wounds more insidious than external wounds.
But for little old Mage-warrior me, I get swiss-cheesed within seconds if I face more than two archers at once.
Maybe I'll download this for my archer playthrough though.
having them any stronger than they are is overkill even without stealth...
You have to take into account bows are to be used at range...so you WILL hit enemies a few times more before they hit you...assuming they even make it to you...
If you want something that is DESIGNED to be stealth...daggers... and the X15 damage...A bow gets x3 damage with stealth.
now its not like a MASSIVE difference because of arrows...
long bow does 6 damage 6+8(arrow damage) x 3=42
iron dagger does 4 damage... 4x15=60
now I am no mathmatician...but I say the dagger deals a hell of alot more base damage than a bow in sneaking...
Iron warhammer as a base does 2x an imperial bow of 9 damage not including arrows...but you cant fire a bow without arros....
so iron warhammer of 18 versus a imperial bow and iron arrow of 17...already close... now for those of you not following, the imperial bow is like a grade about the long bow...
now add in range and the imperial bow is already about double the warhammer or more...
that same math for the long bow still allows the long bow great competition with the warhammer...but when your looking at common weapons you can take your pick from all the long and imperial bows you want.
more likely you will choose the imperial bow. and actually in between those is the huntingbow at 7 damage...woo at the major difference in damage
now maybe you dont thing thats fair...
lets upgrade the warhammer to a steal warhammer of 20...not a massive improvement.
but still bows easily take the base damage.
now you say damage per second? son the damage being dealth isn't "per second"
Im not sure I even understand why they even bother calculating that in weapons, its not even a good scale nor can I figure out how its supposed to be accurate.
because its not taking you 7 seconds to deal 7 damage.
Being an archer character I always wonder if my weapon isnt overpowered...I mean without sneaking I can fell 4 or more enemies before any melee characters ever get to me half the time....and dragons are all just screaming pushovers...I can fell most opponents on harder difficulties with an unupgraded imperial bow and iron arrows fairly easy... and thats without mods... Given that I am running around with an upgraded daedric bow with ebony arrows and 3 or so peices of equipment with +40% arrow damage..meaning I about kill every dragon in two hits...without sneaking...with sneaking theres no point in wasting an ebony arrow...
idk anyways gredd is somewhat right minus the bows specifically being sneaky...
atducey....gredd wasn't being rude...
Adding stagger or bleeding to bows by default would remedy some of that difficulty I think. Might be fun to do a bleeder playthrough, defending yourself until they eventually went down with a whimper instead of a wail.
Also I always thought it might be cool to do a slow time effect whenever blocking or "bow bashing" to give enough time to pop off a shot. That or a knockdown effect on bow bash to represent some judo skills.
Hmm a loud Archer sounds kinda fun now.
As it stands, I'm getting one shotted by archers anyway (damn death Overlords stealing my ebony arrows) so I don't think this mod is for my build.
I'll download it for other chars tho.