Aside from the random items in this mod, how the hell does a huge forge fit into a 'camp'? It would be a lot better if you get rid of that thing, a stone structure rather tells it is a settlement instead. Also look at vanilla camps, like the ones from fishermen and bandits. It may give you a feeling of what a camp really should be.
For the location, well... you could pick near the west tower instead. A lot more space there and you have much more the 'camp' feeling. For the nav mesh, I really do hope you did that part, else any NPC that passes it will have some issues even getting past this 'camp'.
Forgot to add: It's a great idea, no question about that. However you just did not really implement it as well as it could have been. sorry if my words may sound rather harsh, but you did ask people to be honest
* How does a forge fit into a camp? Easy. 1.) Spot abandoned forge. 2.) Say, "Oh, wow, a forge! What a great place to camp! 3.) Camp there.
Done!
Or: Decide to set up business there (that's what this mod is about.) Build forge (or see it, as above.) Camp there until you can build more permanently (or have to move on, being a Khajiit and dubiously welcome.)
"Random items...?" Oh, never mind.
* This is not a pup tent in the middle of nowhere. There *IS* a settlement nearby. It's called Whiterun. Travellers camped outside cities all the time (ever notice the Khajiit traders doing that?) You want the business, that's where you camp.
* Game *does* have bandit camps with forges. History is full of camps with forges in them...also mines, lumber mills, stores, hotels, restaurants, bordellos, etc., etc. It all starts somewhere.
* You didn't bother to read the comment thread.
*Mod was made in 2012.
* The modder's choices are personal preferences with sound reasons behind them, not mistakes. Just because they're not *your* preferences, that doesn't make them wrong.
Maybe you should respect other people's modding efforts and stop being such an ungrateful idiot? I know it looks out of place, but you don't have to word it like you have.
My suggestions, and they're just suggestions... or more like what I think would make it one of the most perfect awesome places ever.
Grind stone, armorer's work bench, and tanning rack. Maybe another chest. Possibly move it to a larger chunk of land close by, although I don't know anything about modding so I have no idea how to go about doing that. A large tent with Alchemy and Enchanting...with some small satchels to put stuff in would be cool...maybe one more chest.
This idea has the potential to be the ultimate convenient "player home" in Skyrim at the center of the map provided the containers don't respawn etc.
I know this is an old mod...but I never stopped to read the comments, and it seems to me Bratak got ganged up on a little too much.
This mod could use some fine tuning. There are lots of little adjustments that could have been made. But let's take a look at the big picture for a minute.
"Agh! It's in the middle of the road! Don'tcha know it don't belong there?" No, it's not in the middle of the road; it's on the side of the road. It does infringe on it a little and block some navmeshes; that should have been adjusted. It could have been moved a little closer to the river. But the basic placement's not bad.
"Ya used the wrong kinda trees!" First, this is a game. Second, it's not set in real-Earth locations and its ecology doesn't have to be exactly like ours. Third, there are areas in the American West that look a lot like Whiterun Hold, and aspen trees DO grow there. It wouldn't surprise me if they do in Scandinavia, too. If they bug you that much, you could ask someone from there, like Emma, or find some pictures.And I know darn well that Scandinavia DOES have birch trees. A LOT of modders put aspen trees in the Whiterun area. I don't think they look out of place at all. And no, they do NOT have to be dead. Where's that come from? A dead tree is a tree that *grew* there, and Whiterun is not a disaster area (before the civil war battle, anyway.)
"The forge is out of place! What's it doin' outside the city?!" Take a look at any blacksmith's sign in the game, and what will you see? *A horseshoe.* That's because a major part of the blacksmith's trade is *making horseshoes and shoeing horses.* There are even guys called farriers who do only that. (BTW, blacksmiths do NOT make armor and weapons; armorers and weaponsmiths do that. But I can overlook that; I don't need to go yell at Bethesda for it.) Now here's where the lore part comes in: How are you going to shoe horses inside Whiterun where there aren't any horses? There SHOULD be a forge outside the city...probably right next to the stable. So here's this guy who comes along, sees the need and sets up shop to fill it. (And BTW, he's a Khajiit; they're not *allowed* in the city. Lore again.) Forges don't just happen; they're built by someone. So he stops his wagon, bends down and picks up some rocks and builds one. Or takes over an old one that lost its shed to fire. Or converts some other structure. This is a fantasy game. That's an excuse NOT to use our imaginations?!
Just as a rough overall impression, I think this mod looks VERY authentic where it is. There are other mods that add *extensive* camps like this to the area *specifically for immersion.* If you don't like it, don't use it. As for the little details...we've all got our own ideas. But it's not our job to try and *make* modders build what we would have built in their place. Sure, we can make suggestions and requests. But let's go easy, eh? Modding is hard work, and everyone is different. Even *legendary* modders have been RUN OUT by harassment from players who don't understand or appreciate what they do.Then we all lose.
And "authenticity police" tend to overstep their bounds. They can end up doing more harm than good, and often the things they call "incorrect" ARE actually correct.
This is a first mod, and as such, it's pretty good. But I'll bet the modder got discouraged and quit. If it hadn't been for everyone piling on, maybe it would have been properly fine-tuned. And maybe he'd have gone on to make bigger and better mods.
I agree!!! This is awesome!!! I would probably suggest maybe an armorer's bench, grind stone, and tanning rack. Maybe a large tent for alchemy and enchanting... with a couple satchels for storage. This could easily be one of the coolest most convenient house mods in existence. At least it seems that way I'm not good at modding...but the idea is really brilliant.
Thanks StormDrummer, I appreciate your going out of your way to defend this guy's stuff. I never would have known this mod existed if I hadn't stumbled on it through a Google Search.
ths Mod is one of the first Mods I added around Whiterun; and personnal I think it adds something needed. I can see the idea that an old forge was revived by an entrepreneurial Khajit; filling the need for a roadside farrier (I couldn't see the guards or the Jarl wanting it right outside main gate either. For someones first Mod, I think its great.
Overall it looks decent, but it seems very lore unfriendly, and I agree with the others the forge looks way out of place. If you don't mind some constructive criticism, here is how I would make it more lore friendly... to start of with I would remove everything left from the large tent and fireplace, I would move the fire in front of where the barrels are right now, and move the barrels behind the tents. I like the trees, but they should match the others in the area, maybe even put the small tent in between them.
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For the location, well... you could pick near the west tower instead. A lot more space there and you have much more the 'camp' feeling.
For the nav mesh, I really do hope you did that part, else any NPC that passes it will have some issues even getting past this 'camp'.
Forgot to add:
It's a great idea, no question about that. However you just did not really implement it as well as it could have been. sorry if my words may sound rather harsh, but you did ask people to be honest
* How does a forge fit into a camp? Easy.
1.) Spot abandoned forge.
2.) Say, "Oh, wow, a forge! What a great place to camp!
3.) Camp there.
Done!
Or: Decide to set up business there (that's what this mod is about.) Build forge (or see it, as above.) Camp there until you can build more permanently (or have to move on, being a Khajiit and dubiously welcome.)
"Random items...?" Oh, never mind.
* This is not a pup tent in the middle of nowhere. There *IS* a settlement nearby. It's called Whiterun. Travellers camped outside cities all the time (ever notice the Khajiit traders doing that?) You want the business, that's where you camp.
* Game *does* have bandit camps with forges. History is full of camps with forges in them...also mines, lumber mills, stores, hotels, restaurants, bordellos, etc., etc. It all starts somewhere.
* You didn't bother to read the comment thread.
*Mod was made in 2012.
* The modder's choices are personal preferences with sound reasons behind them, not mistakes. Just because they're not *your* preferences, that doesn't make them wrong.
This idea is pure brilliance.
My suggestions, and they're just suggestions... or more like what I think would make it one of the most perfect awesome places ever.
Grind stone, armorer's work bench, and tanning rack. Maybe another chest. Possibly move it to a larger chunk of land close by, although I don't know anything about modding so I have no idea how to go about doing that. A large tent with Alchemy and Enchanting...with some small satchels to put stuff in would be cool...maybe one more chest.
This idea has the potential to be the ultimate convenient "player home" in Skyrim at the center of the map provided the containers don't respawn etc.
Pleeeeeease revist this idea.
This mod could use some fine tuning. There are lots of little adjustments that could have been made. But let's take a look at the big picture for a minute.
"Agh! It's in the middle of the road! Don'tcha know it don't belong there?" No, it's not in the middle of the road; it's on the side of the road. It does infringe on it a little and block some navmeshes; that should have been adjusted. It could have been moved a little closer to the river. But the basic placement's not bad.
"Ya used the wrong kinda trees!" First, this is a game. Second, it's not set in real-Earth locations and its ecology doesn't have to be exactly like ours. Third, there are areas in the American West that look a lot like Whiterun Hold, and aspen trees DO grow there. It wouldn't surprise me if they do in Scandinavia, too. If they bug you that much, you could ask someone from there, like Emma, or find some pictures.And I know darn well that Scandinavia DOES have birch trees. A LOT of modders put aspen trees in the Whiterun area. I don't think they look out of place at all. And no, they do NOT have to be dead. Where's that come from? A dead tree is a tree that *grew* there, and Whiterun is not a disaster area (before the civil war battle, anyway.)
"The forge is out of place! What's it doin' outside the city?!" Take a look at any blacksmith's sign in the game, and what will you see? *A horseshoe.* That's because a major part of the blacksmith's trade is *making horseshoes and shoeing horses.* There are even guys called farriers who do only that. (BTW, blacksmiths do NOT make armor and weapons; armorers and weaponsmiths do that. But I can overlook that; I don't need to go yell at Bethesda for it.) Now here's where the lore part comes in: How are you going to shoe horses inside Whiterun where there aren't any horses? There SHOULD be a forge outside the city...probably right next to the stable. So here's this guy who comes along, sees the need and sets up shop to fill it. (And BTW, he's a Khajiit; they're not *allowed* in the city. Lore again.) Forges don't just happen; they're built by someone. So he stops his wagon, bends down and picks up some rocks and builds one. Or takes over an old one that lost its shed to fire. Or converts some other structure. This is a fantasy game. That's an excuse NOT to use our imaginations?!
Just as a rough overall impression, I think this mod looks VERY authentic where it is. There are other mods that add *extensive* camps like this to the area *specifically for immersion.* If you don't like it, don't use it. As for the little details...we've all got our own ideas. But it's not our job to try and *make* modders build what we would have built in their place. Sure, we can make suggestions and requests. But let's go easy, eh? Modding is hard work, and everyone is different. Even *legendary* modders have been RUN OUT by harassment from players who don't understand or appreciate what they do.Then we all lose.
And "authenticity police" tend to overstep their bounds. They can end up doing more harm than good, and often the things they call "incorrect" ARE actually correct.
This is a first mod, and as such, it's pretty good. But I'll bet the modder got discouraged and quit. If it hadn't been for everyone piling on, maybe it would have been properly fine-tuned. And maybe he'd have gone on to make bigger and better mods.
Thanks StormDrummer, I appreciate your going out of your way to defend this guy's stuff. I never would have known this mod existed if I hadn't stumbled on it through a Google Search.