To be honest, unless you can get the game engine to model over-penetration, cavitation and hydrostatic shock.... you won't be able to accurately portray weapon damage realistically. If you could, that'd be great as that would change the dynamics of weapon and cartridge selection of the game... making it that much more interesting.
-The 10mm, .38 cal, 5.56mm, and .308 cal would be good candidates for demonstrating hydrostatic shock; albeit at different ranges and where you hit due to the target's body composition (hitting muscle, bone or fat) and if the target is not armored. The handguns would demonstrate the effect at close range, the 5.56mm at medium range, and the .308 at long range.
-And both the 5.56mm and .308 cal would be good for modeling over-penetration at short ranges on unarmored targets, which makes them even less damaging than handguns at close-quarters. But if targets are wearing certain armor, then the balance swings back to the rifle cartridges favor as they reduce the energy of the impacting round and may even allow for cavitation to occur.
-The .45 cal, 10mm and 5.56mm would be good for demonstrating cavitation; again, at different ranges. The .308 cal at farther distances or if the target is wearing certain armor (which would reduce the velocity of a round as it penetrates during a close-quarter engagement) would also cause cavitation in targets.
Rifles are still way more damaging than pistols at close range. Not sure where you heard that BS, even overpenetration doesn't make much of a difference, you take a .308 close range, it's still going to do way more damage than a handgun at the same range. Handgun bullets are weaker at any range.
Handgun rounds' wider slug diameter and being more ball shaped allows them bleed (transfer) more energy into the target, which then allows the slug to yaw (tumble) and fragment within the target, causing more wounding effects.
Even though a rifle has more muzzle energy than a handgun, when it over penetrates at close range, most of that energy is not being transferred into the target (since it's still carrying the slug through the body), which creates a small wound channel and the slug does not get a chance to yaw or fragment within the target to cause more wounding effects.
Yes, handgun rounds are weaker in the sense that they have less muzzle energy than rifles. But overpenetration wastes that energy advantage.
You are both technically correct. 112gr+ subsonic 5.56 designed to tumble/keyhole the target at impact stabilized with a 1:7 or better twist, or a 95gr HP overload match are most certainly going to (vaporize and liquify organs and tissue) outperform your typical 9mm lug. FMJ at close range. And in contrast, the surface area energy distribution, cavitation, bouncing, and bone fragmentation of common mid to heavy pistol loads like .40, 9x19, 357, etc. is far more devestating than typical 62gr m855 at close range. Although both typically tend to be fatal, regardless, so pick your poison for your situation and shut up.
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11226 Link for the mod Modern Firearms by idlesheep has been removed. Can i still use this mod and disregard the warning I get in LOOT?
Hello, thanks for a great mod. I have a question. I used Loot to set mod order and so far it is working; however, Loot says your mod needs Modern Firearms.esp but it is missing. Can you tell me which mod this is. There are several. I have both Real Weapon Damage (beta3) and the MFD mod. Thanks.
Thank you. I really like this mod. It fixes one part of a larger set of problems.
Another part of the problem is range. Every round/barrel/chamber combination has a maximum effective range. But in Fallout 4, the .308 (7.62 x 51) and the .50 (12.7 x 99 BMG) have basically the same range. In fact, a .50 has an maximum effective range (1500 to 2000 m) which is twice that of a .308 (800 m).
Could you add this to your mod? And if there is already a mod out there that does this, I have not been able to find it.
PS. Another part of the problem is Scopes, but that is addressed in "Lethal Scopes and Iron Sights", http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/7923/?.
I haven`t adressed that topic yet, since the "ranges" in FO4 are all a bit arbitrary. Truth to be told a .50 should be able to shoot across the whole map. Most combat takes place at ranges where the pull of gravity does not really matter much. But I will think about it in future versions.
Right now I have prepared a version that will raise all damage values (that means vanilla weapons) to the level of Idlesheeps guns, e.g. 30 to 80, meaning a factor of 2.6667.
another thing that has been bugging me for a lot of games, What about the longer barrels? they only increase Range and accuracy, but does not reflect that it would increase the velocety the projectile would be flying, thus increasing damage, or the Penetration of what ever it would hit
Yes, thats correct. When I have the time I will rework the weapon mods in this regard. Right now I am preparing some kind of a Nightmare mod, with higher radiation, more aggressive monsters of higher level, less exploits (reduced prices for water, etc.) but its still very BETA.
68 comments
-The 10mm, .38 cal, 5.56mm, and .308 cal would be good candidates for demonstrating hydrostatic shock; albeit at different ranges and where you hit due to the target's body composition (hitting muscle, bone or fat) and if the target is not armored. The handguns would demonstrate the effect at close range, the 5.56mm at medium range, and the .308 at long range.
-And both the 5.56mm and .308 cal would be good for modeling over-penetration at short ranges on unarmored targets, which makes them even less damaging than handguns at close-quarters. But if targets are wearing certain armor, then the balance swings back to the rifle cartridges favor as they reduce the energy of the impacting round and may even allow for cavitation to occur.
-The .45 cal, 10mm and 5.56mm would be good for demonstrating cavitation; again, at different ranges. The .308 cal at farther distances or if the target is wearing certain armor (which would reduce the velocity of a round as it penetrates during a close-quarter engagement) would also cause cavitation in targets.
Even though a rifle has more muzzle energy than a handgun, when it over penetrates at close range, most of that energy is not being transferred into the target (since it's still carrying the slug through the body), which creates a small wound channel and the slug does not get a chance to yaw or fragment within the target to cause more wounding effects.
Yes, handgun rounds are weaker in the sense that they have less muzzle energy than rifles. But overpenetration wastes that energy advantage.
Link for the mod Modern Firearms by idlesheep has been removed.
Can i still use this mod and disregard the warning I get in LOOT?
Another part of the problem is range. Every round/barrel/chamber combination has a maximum effective range. But in Fallout 4, the .308 (7.62 x 51) and the .50 (12.7 x 99 BMG) have basically the same range. In fact, a .50 has an maximum effective range (1500 to 2000 m) which is twice that of a .308 (800 m).
Could you add this to your mod? And if there is already a mod out there that does this, I have not been able to find it.
PS. Another part of the problem is Scopes, but that is addressed in "Lethal Scopes and Iron Sights", http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/7923/?.
Right now I have prepared a version that will raise all damage values (that means vanilla weapons) to the level of Idlesheeps guns, e.g. 30 to 80, meaning a factor of 2.6667.
Does this mod also effect the ammunition in the mod "New Calibers" by BrowncoatGarrus.
It has ammo such as 5.45x39...
Thanks !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PAHu-5-aUM