If you think this is shameful, wait til you find out that it was originally intended for the PLAYER - of either gender - to have the Solider background, while the NPC Spouse is a lawyer. Which makes a whole lot more damn sense as to how Nora can hop out of a Cryo chamber and then proceed to be an expert marksman with every weapon ever developed as soon as she picks it up off the ground. But, as with most things that would've required commitment to an idea, Bethesda chickened out. And incidentally spat in the face of every woman who;'s ever served our country.
There was a mod that restores much of the content that makes it clear that if you play as Nora, SHE was the soldier:
They didn't have atomic cars or autonomous AI robotic assistants either.....
Looking at my comment again, wow, i musta been REALLY pissed at Bethesda that day. It's a bit more vehement than I'd prefer, but the idea stands, and I won't retroactively erase my fit of pique there. A lot of "Triple A" nonsense has really worked my nerves over the last many years.
..You know it wasn't ACTUALLY the 1950s when the bombs dropped, right? It was 2070. They'd revived retro aesthetics, but there were plenty of women serving in front line positions.
It's called Retro-Futurism, and is not unique to Fallout, nor did Fallout invent it. It largely stems from Golden Age science fiction that stretches back to the middle of the 20th century - and some even earlier - where everything is atomic-powered and shiny chrome and so forth, the work of Hugo Gernsback being some of the most famous examples. What's that got do do with anything?
I'm sure they had females in the army during the 1950's. Just because the dependent housewife is more iconic doesn't mean there weren't tough women, especially back then. Females are known to be a better shot anyways, they tend to have finer dexterity than men.
I don't see a problem with the way they portraited Nora as a scholar who could birth and stay home with the child. It's more in-line with typical families and provides more RP variety as she would probably be crafty and smart in the wasteland compared to her brute husband. Of course, there's still nothing stopping you from giving her a shaved head and popping buffout while running a melee build. Adapt and overcome.
What they should have done was have a deeper RP system that gave more methods to complete content than BANG BANG KABOOM, so a more Lawyer Educated person could work well. Using dialogue, etc. Yes, its just a game so we won't go into RL physicality in this topic. I like they both didn't have some generic soldier background. Just wish the game itself did more to use a variety of builds more effectively.
omnimuffin: "..You know it wasn't ACTUALLY the 1950s when the bombs dropped, right? It was 2070. They'd revived retro aesthetics, but there were plenty of women serving in front line positions."
hmm, how about every single female ww2 soldier? for example: the Night Witches, also called the 588th night bomber regiment, they were a soviet night bombing regiment that was all female.
Eh don't even bother, i mean the last time i checked we didn't have fusion powered robot servants in the 50s either. Those people aren't looking for logic, they're just either trolls or genuinely not thinking it through.
@Ironpython: thanks a lot now you've got me thinking .... props if you can follow this convoluted obscure reference ..... "You're not my son. I'm a lawyer, and an Officer in the United States Navy. And you're going to get blown to hell, you son of a bitch."
Russian were the only one to accept women in their army, and only volunteers who were banned from direct frontlines infantry lines but only assigned with vehicules or distant sniper post. Even with this, they still remain a very small % of the Red army, but were overexposed by propaganda. They were not any woman regiment in western armies during that time and in the following decades.
And in the dystopian pre-war America, gender equality seems ... surprising.
let me know when you get to the fully-sentient AI robots flying on fusion-powered hoverjets and let me know if you're surprised and/or how many of them your grandparents had in the 50s
My backstory for Nora/my femme characters is that she was a deeper-than-black-ops infiltration agent whose cover was blown on her last op. She met Nate during her de-briefing (he was on re-assignment after injuries received in the Alaska campaign kept him from front-line fighting), they fall in love, and her civilian cover is as a lawyer. I then use a cheat mod to accelerate her SPECIAL/skill/perk acquisition after she leaves Vault 111 to simulate recovering from cryo and regaining her skill set... and to recover her equipment. I think this helps explain why she is so quick on the uptake when confronted with the challenges of The Commonwealth; she's used to operating in strange situations.
The thing is, that the mod only restores Nora as the player, while Nate as the spouse is still vanilla, that makes them both being solders. It's not impossible for a married couple to share the same occupation, but it's highly uncommon (even rare) and can be viewed as weird by some people. The original idea of having the player always be the solder and the spouse always be a lawyer regardless of gender choice, would be much better. But Bethesda made it so when you choose who to play as, you pick a somewhat complete character (save for cosmetic changes) including their whole life, their background, so Nora is always a lawyer and Nate is always a solder, despite if they are the player, or their spouse. This fact makes them both canon. Unlike previous Fallout games, there was only one Vault Dweller, a single Chosen One, only one Lone Wanderer and a single Courier. Male or female, their counterpart didn't exist. But with FO4, both Nate and Nora exist in the same universe and even the spouse's death in the vault doesn't erase them from existence. They still existed, they lived and they died.
well the fault there lies with beth's writing, if anything. Play the start of the game with the original dialogue, and you can hear Nora plainly say, "WE'RE gonna knock em dead tonight at..." implying that yes, the original design had them both being veterans. None of this silly lawyer stuff. And certainly not lawyers who jump outta bed after a 200 year cryo nap and are magically an expert with every weapon in the world not to mention power armor..... yyyyyyeah
I think a good backstory for Nora is that she was some kind of special/secret agent or commanding officer (think Black Widow from Marvel or Judi Dench's M from James Bond) and that after she left service for one reason or another (dis/honourable discharge, cover blown, injury, whatever your personal choice is) she chose to pursue a career in law, considering she'd probably have some knowledge in that regard already with her former career, she'd be able to pick it up fast. She possibly also doesn't talk about it as she's conditioned in that way, which makes more sense if you go down the "special/secret agent" route, as she'd have been trained not to reveal information that might compromise her position.
She could have met Nate through many scenarios. Stationed at the same base, went on an op together, met in the hospital after both were injured, could have been his commanding officer. Leaves a lot of room for building your own character on top of a backstory that would give a decent reason as to why she's basically as efficient as John Wick after waking up from being frozen for 210 years, living a civilian life for a few years and having been pregnant. At least Nate has a proper in game reason for being a killing machine. Have to do so much head-canon for Nora.
Contrary to popular belief, their story doesn't take place in the 1950's but in the 2070's. Amongst other things, the idea that fashions and car designs wouldn't have progressed to a more similar line like our modern eyes see is something that completely destroys Beth's narrative of the story.
"'knock em dead" is literally a saying...a metaphor......doesn't literally mean that she served in the military does it?? nate is the veteran. woke idiot
lmao if only you could read, mr. wokephobia, about how it restores Bethesda's original content for Nora, such as her being recognized as a veteran by the Constution's bots. But I guess facts aren't compatible with your agenda. What, did you think this author just recorded themselves in a high-pitched voice pretending to be Nora? It's all in the files, which you'd know if you'd the intelligence to spend ten seconds actually checking facts. Moron.
totally all for female soldier background and wouldn't have minded its inclusion at all, but i do think the base games idea also makes sense as to me it came off as sort of "the prewar world was just as bad as postwar but in different ways" like prewar America was full of racism, misogny, homophobia etc and the apocalypse just allowed the worst in people to thrive. replying to an old comment i know lol but saw this as i was grabbing the mod and didnt like seeing people just say "uh women didnt serve lol" with no good reason for even saying that regardless though not one person would have cared if nora had the war background aswell orignally
You really need to complain about everything don't you ? Especially in a game where the female character can do exactly everything like her male counterpart. Also for having worked with plenty of women in the military and police, I can tell you that you live in a fantasy world if you think that most of them are nearly half as capable at combat than their male colleagues.
Piper: "Nate, what did you do?" Nate: "I'm a veteran and served my country as a soldier."
Piper: "Nora, what did you do?" Nora: "I stamped papers." :D
And if you're gonna go that deep... Beth already made the game somewhat of a hen house in other aspects anyways. I realize this comment is a few years old, but its still getting responses, so, why the heck not?
Geeze, don't listen to the peeps getting upset over nothing. This definitely would've been a better choice and it's insane that they took it out AFTER having it in the first place. Crazy decision on their part.
well... no it isnt in the game there are similar parts in the interview so that why you might got confused, or maybe you used another mod that restores this cut content (dont know of another one so I doubt it)
I hope one day, a brilliant mod author, creates a mod for piper's interview, telling her to shove it, you don't need to provide the wanna be hippocrates n azzwipes in the city there, info to judge you or to be judged by them.... (allowing to skip the interview entirely) ( really really can't stand piper, )
There once was a young man from Kent, Whose prick in the middle was bent. To save himself trouble, He put it in double, And instead of coming, he went.
don'tmodmebroitsclearlyrelevant
and FWIW you can sorta tell her to shove it by being an ass and giving really stupid answers to all her questions. Try it some time, it's.... odd.
This is GROOVY stuff bud ^~^ It's awesome though I see Bethesda probably thought the uncut content would've been too long, though it helps give the player a clearer background on the main character they're playing as. I wouldn't have cut it, because it's quite effectivve (Nora was a lawyer, Nate a soldier, but what did they do back then, it's all explained in tidbits right here).
However since most people don't even play the original storyline, and probably just use the Start Me Up like I do these scenes wouldn't matter much
I am getting a crash when this is enabled when i approach diamond city and piper's scene starts. I ran this through xedit and did the buffout 4 log parser tool and the buffout crashlog kept reporting random misc objects like basketballs and other junk as possible sources, and xedit showed this mod was the only thing modifying piper in my load order after disabling the appearance mod I had on her. After disabling this mod it stopped crashing, with and without her appearance on.
Honestly your comment is worth even less than his. At least he points out a potential issue, he just didn't specify if he's narrowed it down to this mod, that's all.
Question for anyone that sees this - I installed this for my current playthrough and am past the quest that this affects now. For what it's worth, it didn't quite work on my load order anyway. Anyway, since I'm past the quest and probably won't care to use this mod in the future anyway, if I were to uninstall this now (I'm very narrowly walking the "255 esp" tightrope) should I expect any adverse effects on my save?
146 comments
There was a mod that restores much of the content that makes it clear that if you play as Nora, SHE was the soldier:
War Veteran Female Sole Survivor
Looking at my comment again, wow, i musta been REALLY pissed at Bethesda that day. It's a bit more vehement than I'd prefer, but the idea stands, and I won't retroactively erase my fit of pique there. A lot of "Triple A" nonsense has really worked my nerves over the last many years.
I don't see a problem with the way they portraited Nora as a scholar who could birth and stay home with the child. It's more in-line with typical families and provides more RP variety as she would probably be crafty and smart in the wasteland compared to her brute husband. Of course, there's still nothing stopping you from giving her a shaved head and popping buffout while running a melee build. Adapt and overcome.
Where does it say that in the fallout lore?
hmm, how about every single female ww2 soldier? for example: the Night Witches, also called the 588th night bomber regiment, they were a soviet night bombing regiment that was all female.
@Ironpython: thanks a lot now you've got me thinking .... props if you can follow this convoluted obscure reference ..... "You're not my son. I'm a lawyer, and an Officer in the United States Navy. And you're going to get blown to hell, you son of a bitch."
And in the dystopian pre-war America, gender equality seems ... surprising.
The original idea of having the player always be the solder and the spouse always be a lawyer regardless of gender choice, would be much better. But Bethesda made it so when you choose who to play as, you pick a somewhat complete character (save for cosmetic changes) including their whole life, their background, so Nora is always a lawyer and Nate is always a solder, despite if they are the player, or their spouse. This fact makes them both canon. Unlike previous Fallout games, there was only one Vault Dweller, a single Chosen One, only one Lone Wanderer and a single Courier. Male or female, their counterpart didn't exist. But with FO4, both Nate and Nora exist in the same universe and even the spouse's death in the vault doesn't erase them from existence. They still existed, they lived and they died.
well the fault there lies with beth's writing, if anything. Play the start of the game with the original dialogue, and you can hear Nora plainly say, "WE'RE gonna knock em dead tonight at..." implying that yes, the original design had them both being veterans. None of this silly lawyer stuff. And certainly not lawyers who jump outta bed after a 200 year cryo nap and are magically an expert with every weapon in the world not to mention power armor..... yyyyyyeah
She possibly also doesn't talk about it as she's conditioned in that way, which makes more sense if you go down the "special/secret agent" route, as she'd have been trained not to reveal information that might compromise her position.
She could have met Nate through many scenarios. Stationed at the same base, went on an op together, met in the hospital after both were injured, could have been his commanding officer. Leaves a lot of room for building your own character on top of a backstory that would give a decent reason as to why she's basically as efficient as John Wick after waking up from being frozen for 210 years, living a civilian life for a few years and having been pregnant.
At least Nate has a proper in game reason for being a killing machine. Have to do so much head-canon for Nora.
woke idiot
Piper: "Nate, what did you do?"
Nate: "I'm a veteran and served my country as a soldier."
Piper: "Nora, what did you do?"
Nora: "I stamped papers." :D
And if you're gonna go that deep... Beth already made the game somewhat of a hen house in other aspects anyways. I realize this comment is a few years old, but its still getting responses, so, why the heck not?
there are similar parts in the interview so that why you might got confused, or maybe you used another mod that restores this cut content (dont know of another one so I doubt it)
I hope one day, a brilliant mod author, creates a mod for piper's interview, telling her to shove it, you don't need to provide the wanna be hippocrates n azzwipes in the city there, info to judge you or to be judged by them.... (allowing to skip the interview entirely)
( really really can't stand piper, )
I like to visit there and announce that I've come to "came".
Some people roll their eyes but I find it humorous.
Whose prick in the middle was bent.
To save himself trouble,
He put it in double,
And instead of coming, he went.
don'tmodmebroitsclearlyrelevant
and FWIW you can sorta tell her to shove it by being an ass and giving really stupid answers to all her questions. Try it some time, it's.... odd.
And I did do that for a couple o times, just to be done with it, but still wish n hope
It's awesome though I see Bethesda probably thought the uncut content would've been too long, though it helps give the player a clearer background on the main character they're playing as. I wouldn't have cut it, because it's quite effectivve (Nora was a lawyer, Nate a soldier, but what did they do back then, it's all explained in tidbits right here).
However since most people don't even play the original storyline, and probably just use the Start Me Up like I do
these scenes wouldn't matter much
What an entirely worthless comment.