My new worldspace, The Small Addition (WIP) is up in alpha form, if anyone is interested in giving it a whirl. =) http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/17128/? ============================================================
Hello,
I've been working on a new worldspace recently, The Small Addition. Please come take a look, see if it's at all interesting and let me know your opinions. https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/4670100-wip-the-small-addition-worldspace/
Well this is a first i have over 400 mods and this is my first comment. I love you little settlement in the woods here it reminds me of when i was a boy in Kansas sneaking off into the woods to my hidden fort and would camp and garden there. Thank you for this nostalgia 10/10 in my opinion.
This is to apologise towards BlahBlahDEEBlahBlah for the hint at an insinuation of an accusation and even an overal doubting that this mod might have messed-up a few things regarding Oberland Station disappearing from the settlements list in the PipBoy's Data/Workshops menu, with the consequence no settlers could be sent to Oberland nor could a supply line be established...
After almost a month I finally found out the culprit. The silent bug came from a settlement mod I always overlooked: University Point by Mysterius; a mod which has been taken down by the author for other reasons but which has always worked fine for me... maybe that's why I overlooked it and had no suspicions towards it. But with a little coincidental help from Tarsis31, the bug game to the fore as being instigated by the aformentioned mod.
So, again, sincerest pardonnez-moi towards DEE for causing alarm, headaches and a possible migration to some caves in South-East Timbuktu to study the mating process of the Red-Nosed Shortwingbat...
I'd rather post it here than in the Bugs section so it doesn't get lost to those concerned, including folk who also might still be using Mysterius' University Point settlement mod...
JimmyRJump wrote: This is to apologise towards BlahBlahDEEBlahBlah for the hint at an insinuation of an accusation and even an overal doubting that this mod might have messed-up a few things regarding Oberland Station disappearing from the settlements list in the PipBoy's Data/Workshops menu, with the consequence no settlers could be sent to Oberland nor could a supply line be established...
After almost a month I finally found out the culprit. The silent bug came from a settlement mod I always overlooked: University Point by Mysterius; a mod which has been taken down by the author for other reasons but which has always worked fine for me... maybe that's why I overlooked it and had no suspicions towards it. But with a little coincidental help from Tarsis31, the bug game to the fore as being instigated by the aformentioned mod.
So, again, sincerest pardonnez-moi towards DEE for causing alarm, headaches and a possible migration to some caves in South-East Timbuktu to study the mating process of the Red-Nosed Shortwingbat...
I'd rather post it here than in the Bugs section so it doesn't get lost to those concerned, including folk who also might still be using Mysterius' University Point settlement mod...
I'm trying to be less verbose, while I think you're trying to be more. ;-)
Anywho, I thank you. =)
...wouldn't want to, as eloquent as you are sometimes, be part of a mod by writing some small bits of text for my companion in The Small Addition would you? ;-)
Now that the Nexus is starting to deliver notices again, I thought I'd pop in and let you know that this little bug report and it's conclusion helped me find so many issues with my settlements modding process, and solidify my process of checking other settlement mods.
This was simply a great mod, Mysterius' University Point, beat by the Vault Tec DLC. The DLC placed an exit door in one of the outer edge cells that was used in the UP settlement mod. This renamed and altered the cell's location away from UPS, back to NONE. That's all it takes to wreck supply lines totally unrelated to the mod location itself, one cell with the wrong location.
Have you seen a "Commonwealth" entry in your pipboy workshop menu? This can also be a result of wrong location. I've looked at a LOT of settlement mods, and a LOT of "build area expansion" mods. Open Stands got it right. My mods get it right (well, I recheck them a lot), and that's about it, for now. The word is out there, people know to change it when modding, they just have to stay alert. That's why I recommend changing the cell names of all the cells of your settlement/build area expansions, the cells are all together in the list for that final triple check. And the next check a week later.
On a different note, if you have indeed picked up a certain verbose individual to do a little creative writing for you, then you bathe in fortune my friend. It will assuredly add definitive character to your.. characters.
I followed the link from bethesda.net when you mention this mod, everything looks fine in terms of quests to initialize the new workshop settlement and it serves as you said as a good example how to do it.
The only thing I noticed was that you deleted some vanilla forms (references) - that can create game crashes.
It's not a critic as it happens to me many times when using the CK and after forgetting I deleted something. I just cleaned the mod in FO4Edit with the Undelete filter.
Thinking back, you're correct. Last version for this (and Water Downed probably too, as I did that last little of precombine geom/visibility la la la in both at the same time) I must have totally forgot to run through FO4Edit like usual. Thanks for the reminder. =)
Edit: also reminds me of the location error in The Small Addition I need to take care of (also in FO4Edit) this weekend.
Yep, I know, it happens all the time - that's why when I download something I open it straight in FO4Edit to see world or cell changes to avoid crashes in my game play.
-------------
I have done the Workshop initialization in past projects/mods (Mystic Pines as an example) but as many other posters I have the random place/location that doesn't work in terms of recruiting population and visible happiness, specially when the location is associated with quests.
I still don't know why those places don't register in the Workshop array...
My believe is after a lot of testing and a bit frustration sometimes I believe what I need to try next is changing the master/mod .esp to .esm, that seemed to fix a lot of other things in previous games. And that's something Bethesda do with the DLCs.
Edit: I should note the "location error" I meant was that in the entrance cell (FROM Commonwealth/TO The Small Addition) there is a staged encounter that needs to be tweaked a bit. Doesn't cause any issues...just annoying nagging in the back of my head. =)
Another quick question: did you, during the making of this mod, in any way tamper with Oberland Station? Not saying your settlement is the cause (still trying to figure that out) but -while Oberland Station is still there and usable, I am unable to send settlers to OS, nor can I establish a provision line from any other settlement to Oberland.
Sending a provisioner from Oberland Station to any other settlement works, but the WorkShop stays disconnected and doesn't share items with the main supplies in other WorkShops.
Again, absolutely not implying your mod is the cause, just trying to make sure nevertheless
Nope, I don't believe so. None the less, I'll take a look around as soon as I can. =) (I have overland station settled in a save somewhere which I can test it with)
Sorry for the trouble either way.
Edit to add: Oberland is a good bit south of Open Stands, so it wouldn't have been affected by any of the cell/object/landscape (very minimal, mostly just landscape height and navmesh at the edges to meet Open Stands's) edits. Also, the settlement quests are not the same quests that the other settlements use, they're either duplicated templates with edits or "create new", but I'll double check that.
You've tried uninstalling open stands and trying? Of course, just temporarily for testing purposes.
Okay, confirmed that: -(via FO4Edit) no changes were made to Oberland Station cells or objects. -(via FO4Edit) no changes were made to quests in a way that would affect any other settlements (as a note: it's liekly that, if a erroneous change were made to a settlement related quest, it wouldn't single out Oberland) -I was able to send a new provisioner/create a new supply line to Oberland. -The settlement container was functioning as intended (...I have 20k steel?!? must have been testing with console, heh) and sharing resources.
I'll keep an eye out, but for now I'm gonna call it a game bug or another mod. Unless, of course, you can test uninstalling only Open Stands and verifying that that does indeed change things in a positive way. I am always capable of being wrong and/or missing something (that's for darn sure). =) If so, than I'll dig deeper still.
Thanks a lot for the thorough testing, analysis and reply, bibidibibi... can scrap your mod from the list then...
Off topic and as a sidenote: something which annoys me to no end is that updating mods through NMM updates the whole kaboodle; an option to update individually would be nice (recently updated so wbo knows which mod is throwing soot in the food), plus, updated mods should show the new version in the "Mod Version" column so that you know if an update went through yes or no...
*Jimmy steps down from orange crate... glad that's off me chest
Okay, off to play some more and then see if the settlers radio beacon works chez Oberland
Nope. Got stuck in Far Harbor and cleaned the place out. Oberland Station is doing fine bar the aformentioned peculiarity with it's workshop not getting connected with the others and also no longer being in the list of possible settlements to send a settler/provisioner. Oberland's name has been replaced by "Commonwealth" which I thought was a name used by someone else's mod (Eddiecantara's "Berry" place, which has two workshops for interior and exterior building purposes; the exterior one added a "Commonwealth" marker on my map, I think), but after having deactivated the suspect, nothing changed. The latter can be due to some changes made by mods not being erased from a save even after deletion of the files.
There's only one other settlement mod I used at the time but I don't feel like deleting that one. Like I said, Oberland works normally except I get grumpy when wanting to build stuff there and not having enough ingredients
I haven't actually tried to send a provisioner to this "Commonwealth"... maybe I'll have a go to see what will happen... with a bit of luck the provisioner will end up chez Oberland after all...
Reminder: Yeah, the cell reset bug...t's pretty lame. So, definitely keep your saves backed up and handy when using (all mods, really). Anyway, I haven't seen the cell reset issue with Open Stands. However, on the off chance that it does come up, it wouldn't be specific to Open Stands (or just to settlement mods, in fact) and it can happen at any and all settlements (even to vanilla locations with other types of mods installed, but more often at mod created settlements). I employed precautionary tactics, but even so, that's no guarantee.
For a more thorough fix, take a look at "Cell Reset Workaround Patch": http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/6772/?
Started a new game two days ago and finally activated this mod (which just got a new update, I see) and am pretty pleased with the result
My only gripe is the fact that the green border doesn't correspond with the settlement's building limits; in fact the area where you can build is rougly one quarter larger than the green border indicates. In the direction of Concord (more or less to the North) you can go two 4x4 floor foundations outside the border while to the West it's roughly three 4x4 blocks.
Scrapped everything in the vicinity, dug-up the WorkShop, added a supply line from Sanctuary and started building my 6x5 floor foundation for a two storey bedroom block (four bedrooms per floor, three beds with containers/wardrobes per bedroom).
A slight warning: somehow, there's a couple of small Mutfruit trees hidden underground which are being picked up when in WorkShop mode (in the area where the shacks stood originally), giving you the possibility to either add them to the WorkShop or select them to move them elsewhere. The latter option somehow crashes my game everytime, so, beware...
The larger-than-visible-border-buid'able-area is kinda hal fway on purpose. Besides the fact that it's a pain in the ear to shape a non-rectangular trigger in a not-quite-3-dimensional viewing space (I honestly don't know graphic designers/artists do it), it's a preference of mine to have the *actual* build'able area be bigger than the border. Kinda like "Here's the lines, Sweety...but we still love you if you color outside them." =) (That's different from the train of thought for Water Downed, of course, where the walls are borders that are borders because they are walls. Thematically, they are impassable. ;-) ) Either way, this won't be a priority, but I may change it at some later date anyhow...for consistencies sake. Acceptable? =)
As for the crash, well that's lame. Sorry about that. I couldn't reproduce it (they are above ground, happy and non-crashy here), but nevertheless, I'll move them a little father out in another version soon as I can. (theory: they are so close to the trees [whether the trees still exist or not at the time] that they are shifting downwards and that picking them up from that location causes some stop issue...<shrug> )
Thanks.
P.S. I should go request additional Workshop Workbench meshes and textures on the forums. Maybe then, I wouldn't try to hide it. How immersive is it for a perfectly good workbench to be sitting out in the forest next to an outhouse? Guess I could always substitute the mesh...but then, "Oh, this tree allows me to build whatever I want here? Best tree ever!". =P
Okay, so 'gripe' maybe is too harsh a word, as I like terrains that are rather big. In this case, the actual border is running through cops of trees that remain unscrappable and one felled stem which I had to 'markfordelete'.
My only problem, so to speak, is that, when borders aren't where they're supposed to be, you have to run around in WorkShop mode to literally test the terrain for where the borders actually are. Although I should be kinda used to it by now as I've been using 'Build High - Expanded Settlements' since it was released; that mod vastly expands the borders of most settlements, but without any green/red limits at all...
Fun, fun, fun
Nah, CTDs aren't that much of a problem to me personally. I'm used to Bethesda's funny ways of going about things, so, every time they release a new game, I go out to get me some spare F5 touches and a reinforcement bridge for underneath my row of F keys
In other words, I quicksave a whole lot.
If you don't feel like changing it, hey, don't bother. Is not such a big deal once you know more or less where the limits are
I would if I could, but I'm not so great with the words and all. I'm too long winded and prone to the use of 'fluff' text. The wiki's slowly getting filled in though, I'm happy to see that. This small bit of info will get you half way there: http://www.creationkit.com/fallout4/index.php?title=Category:Workshop#Workshop_Data After that, it's 1) making 2 small scripts (which you could steal from Open Stands), and 2) making sure the cell, location reference (ex: OpenStandsLocation object) and zone (ex: OpenStandsZone object) are looking where they are supposed to. . . ...and I already feel like I've maybe left something out...I would sooo make a horrible guide writer. =/
I actually just tried to write one up just last night and had posted looking for some editing/testing.
So please, feel free to take a look at it, rewrite it, edit it, critique it, test it...as long as it's out there (and I didn't forget a part of it, heh). (I'll be out of town soon, and as interesting as that is, it's a shame that I may not get back to it for a while)
Great little campsite, I built a sweet little tower for the amenities. Everything works like a charm. Endorsed, and thanks! (and you should write a guide, long winded prose and all )
Thanks. =) I've seen you around quite a bit, politely suggesting to individual mod authors that they create/edit their descriptions and such for the better. Good approach (whether intentional or not). Reminded me of this thread (and my post #7): https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/4093600-the-trend-for-useless-mod-descriptions/
This mod is so small (and kind of a throwaway) that I'm not too worried (but still tried to make the the basics clear)...but if/when I get something bigger out, I will no doubt be asking for writing help.
38 comments
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/17128/?
============================================================
Hello,
I've been working on a new worldspace recently, The Small Addition. Please come take a look, see if it's at all interesting and let me know your opinions.
https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/4670100-wip-the-small-addition-worldspace/
Thank you. =)
Thank you very much. =)
After almost a month I finally found out the culprit. The silent bug came from a settlement mod I always overlooked: University Point by Mysterius; a mod which has been taken down by the author for other reasons but which has always worked fine for me... maybe that's why I overlooked it and had no suspicions towards it. But with a little coincidental help from Tarsis31, the bug game to the fore as being instigated by the aformentioned mod.
So, again, sincerest pardonnez-moi towards DEE for causing alarm, headaches and a possible migration to some caves in South-East Timbuktu to study the mating process of the Red-Nosed Shortwingbat...
I'd rather post it here than in the Bugs section so it doesn't get lost to those concerned, including folk who also might still be using Mysterius' University Point settlement mod...
I'm trying to be less verbose, while I think you're trying to be more. ;-)
Anywho, I thank you. =)
...wouldn't want to, as eloquent as you are sometimes, be part of a mod by writing some small bits of text for my companion in The Small Addition would you? ;-)
This was simply a great mod, Mysterius' University Point, beat by the Vault Tec DLC. The DLC placed an exit door in one of the outer edge cells that was used in the UP settlement mod. This renamed and altered the cell's location away from UPS, back to NONE. That's all it takes to wreck supply lines totally unrelated to the mod location itself, one cell with the wrong location.
Have you seen a "Commonwealth" entry in your pipboy workshop menu? This can also be a result of wrong location. I've looked at a LOT of settlement mods, and a LOT of "build area expansion" mods. Open Stands got it right. My mods get it right (well, I recheck them a lot), and that's about it, for now. The word is out there, people know to change it when modding, they just have to stay alert. That's why I recommend changing the cell names of all the cells of your settlement/build area expansions, the cells are all together in the list for that final triple check. And the next check a week later.
On a different note, if you have indeed picked up a certain verbose individual to do a little creative writing for you, then you bathe in fortune my friend. It will assuredly add definitive character to your.. characters.
The only thing I noticed was that you deleted some vanilla forms (references) - that can create game crashes.
It's not a critic as it happens to me many times when using the CK and after forgetting I deleted something. I just cleaned the mod in FO4Edit with the Undelete filter.
Thanks for the reminder. =)
Edit: also reminds me of the location error in The Small Addition I need to take care of (also in FO4Edit) this weekend.
-------------
I have done the Workshop initialization in past projects/mods (Mystic Pines as an example) but as many other posters I have the random place/location that doesn't work in terms of recruiting population and visible happiness, specially when the location is associated with quests.
I still don't know why those places don't register in the Workshop array...
My believe is after a lot of testing and a bit frustration sometimes I believe what I need to try next is changing the master/mod .esp to .esm, that seemed to fix a lot of other things in previous games. And that's something Bethesda do with the DLCs.
Edit: I should note the "location error" I meant was that in the entrance cell (FROM Commonwealth/TO The Small Addition) there is a staged encounter that needs to be tweaked a bit. Doesn't cause any issues...just annoying nagging in the back of my head. =)
Sending a provisioner from Oberland Station to any other settlement works, but the WorkShop stays disconnected and doesn't share items with the main supplies in other WorkShops.
Again, absolutely not implying your mod is the cause, just trying to make sure nevertheless
(I have overland station settled in a save somewhere which I can test it with)
Sorry for the trouble either way.
Edit to add: Oberland is a good bit south of Open Stands, so it wouldn't have been affected by any of the cell/object/landscape (very minimal, mostly just landscape height and navmesh at the edges to meet Open Stands's) edits. Also, the settlement quests are not the same quests that the other settlements use, they're either duplicated templates with edits or "create new", but I'll double check that.
You've tried uninstalling open stands and trying? Of course, just temporarily for testing purposes.
-(via FO4Edit) no changes were made to Oberland Station cells or objects.
-(via FO4Edit) no changes were made to quests in a way that would affect any other settlements (as a note: it's liekly that, if a erroneous change were made to a settlement related quest, it wouldn't single out Oberland)
-I was able to send a new provisioner/create a new supply line to Oberland.
-The settlement container was functioning as intended (...I have 20k steel?!? must have been testing with console, heh) and sharing resources.
I'll keep an eye out, but for now I'm gonna call it a game bug or another mod. Unless, of course, you can test uninstalling only Open Stands and verifying that that does indeed change things in a positive way. I am always capable of being wrong and/or missing something (that's for darn sure). =) If so, than I'll dig deeper still.
Thank you. =)
Off topic and as a sidenote: something which annoys me to no end is that updating mods through NMM updates the whole kaboodle; an option to update individually would be nice (recently updated so wbo knows which mod is throwing soot in the food), plus, updated mods should show the new version in the "Mod Version" column so that you know if an update went through yes or no...
*Jimmy steps down from orange crate... glad that's off me chest
Okay, off to play some more and then see if the settlers radio beacon works chez Oberland
There's only one other settlement mod I used at the time but I don't feel like deleting that one. Like I said, Oberland works normally except I get grumpy when wanting to build stuff there and not having enough ingredients
I haven't actually tried to send a provisioner to this "Commonwealth"... maybe I'll have a go to see what will happen... with a bit of luck the provisioner will end up chez Oberland after all...
Yeah, the cell reset bug...t's pretty lame.
So, definitely keep your saves backed up and handy when using (all mods, really).
Anyway, I haven't seen the cell reset issue with Open Stands. However, on the off chance that it does come up, it wouldn't be specific to Open Stands (or just to settlement mods, in fact) and it can happen at any and all settlements (even to vanilla locations with other types of mods installed, but more often at mod created settlements).
I employed precautionary tactics, but even so, that's no guarantee.
For a more thorough fix, take a look at "Cell Reset Workaround Patch": http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/6772/?
Sorry for the trouble.
My only gripe is the fact that the green border doesn't correspond with the settlement's building limits; in fact the area where you can build is rougly one quarter larger than the green border indicates. In the direction of Concord (more or less to the North) you can go two 4x4 floor foundations outside the border while to the West it's roughly three 4x4 blocks.
Scrapped everything in the vicinity, dug-up the WorkShop, added a supply line from Sanctuary and started building my 6x5 floor foundation for a two storey bedroom block (four bedrooms per floor, three beds with containers/wardrobes per bedroom).
A slight warning: somehow, there's a couple of small Mutfruit trees hidden underground which are being picked up when in WorkShop mode (in the area where the shacks stood originally), giving you the possibility to either add them to the WorkShop or select them to move them elsewhere. The latter option somehow crashes my game everytime, so, beware...
Cheerio, bibidibibi, kudos added
(That's different from the train of thought for Water Downed, of course, where the walls are borders that are borders because they are walls. Thematically, they are impassable. ;-)
)
Either way, this won't be a priority, but I may change it at some later date anyhow...for consistencies sake. Acceptable? =)
As for the crash, well that's lame. Sorry about that.
I couldn't reproduce it (they are above ground, happy and non-crashy here), but nevertheless, I'll move them a little father out in another version soon as I can.
(theory: they are so close to the trees [whether the trees still exist or not at the time] that they are shifting downwards and that picking them up from that location causes some stop issue...<shrug> )
Thanks.
P.S. I should go request additional Workshop Workbench meshes and textures on the forums. Maybe then, I wouldn't try to hide it. How immersive is it for a perfectly good workbench to be sitting out in the forest next to an outhouse? Guess I could always substitute the mesh...but then, "Oh, this tree allows me to build whatever I want here? Best tree ever!". =P
My only problem, so to speak, is that, when borders aren't where they're supposed to be, you have to run around in WorkShop mode to literally test the terrain for where the borders actually are. Although I should be kinda used to it by now as I've been using 'Build High - Expanded Settlements' since it was released; that mod vastly expands the borders of most settlements, but without any green/red limits at all...
Fun, fun, fun
Nah, CTDs aren't that much of a problem to me personally. I'm used to Bethesda's funny ways of going about things, so, every time they release a new game, I go out to get me some spare F5 touches and a reinforcement bridge for underneath my row of F keys
In other words, I quicksave a whole lot.
If you don't feel like changing it, hey, don't bother. Is not such a big deal once you know more or less where the limits are
The wiki's slowly getting filled in though, I'm happy to see that.
This small bit of info will get you half way there: http://www.creationkit.com/fallout4/index.php?title=Category:Workshop#Workshop_Data
After that, it's 1) making 2 small scripts (which you could steal from Open Stands), and 2) making sure the cell, location reference (ex: OpenStandsLocation object) and zone (ex: OpenStandsZone object) are looking where they are supposed to.
.
.
...and I already feel like I've maybe left something out...I would sooo make a horrible guide writer. =/
https://community.bethesda.net/thread/9281?#jive_content_id_How_do_I_properly_add_a_new_settlement
So please, feel free to take a look at it, rewrite it, edit it, critique it, test it...as long as it's out there (and I didn't forget a part of it, heh).
(I'll be out of town soon, and as interesting as that is, it's a shame that I may not get back to it for a while)
Endorsed, too
I've seen you around quite a bit, politely suggesting to individual mod authors that they create/edit their descriptions and such for the better. Good approach (whether intentional or not).
Reminded me of this thread (and my post #7): https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/4093600-the-trend-for-useless-mod-descriptions/
This mod is so small (and kind of a throwaway) that I'm not too worried (but still tried to make the the basics clear)...but if/when I get something bigger out, I will no doubt be asking for writing help.